Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden Freight Damage
Luke, When you first posted I forwarded your request to our warehouse manager, who's quite experienced. He didn't receive any of the responses from other Wrenches, but sent this to me this morning: Inspect it immediately for obvious signs of damage. This means walking around the whole delivery or moving the boxes around to view all sides for potential damages. Compare the number of shipping units received to the number listed on the delivery receipt. Sign the delivery receipt. I always sign the papers or the scanner with the number of handling units (or boxes if its parcel) then my signature. While the driver is there, compare the pieces you are receiving to the delivery receipt. If the condition and quantity of your shipment is acceptable, the driver will ask you to sign the delivery receipt. The driver will give you a copy and take the original signed copy with him/her (as proof of delivery). A signed delivery receipt with no exceptions is called a "clear delivery." Clear deliveries mean there were no shortages or visible damage at the time of delivery. A shipment invoice will be sent to the paying party soon after pickup or delivery, depending on whether the shipment is prepaid or collect. If a shipment is short or damaged, you can still accept the delivery with notes on the shipper papers. If the shipment is too damaged and will require extra resources in time and reshipment - refuse the whole shipment. It's the duty of the shipper and the consignee to mitigate the loss. After you accept the shipment, take steps to protect it from further loss and promptly file a claim for the actual shortages or damages involved. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com On 11/5/2013 8:58 PM, Luke Christy wrote: Wrenches, Thanks to everyone who responded to my Freight Damage post. I wouldn't wish freight nightmares on anyone, but it is somewhat comforting to hear that most folks have run into this problem over the years. The major takeaway seems to be that there is no substitute for a thorough inspection of every delivery, even though that's often logistically difficult. Also pushing back on the denied claim to see if the carrier will come around to some kind of settlement. Given that the carrier in question is Con-way and they are generally surly even at the local office, I don't have a lot of hope for that, but it seems worth a try. I'm thinking in the future it may be worth it to pay extra for lift gate service with a call-ahead so that I can receive the deliveries personally at my shop. It has been convenient to have my friends with a loading dock take delivery of my shipments, but there is only so much I can ask them to do in terms of looking for damage. In the past I have tried the tactic of having the person signing for the freight put something like "Subject to Inspection for Damage" on the BOL, but it's hard for that to work well when you never know who will actually sign for the item. Of course, with this latest broken shipment, the disclaimer didn't get on the BOL. Thanks again. May all your pallets arrive intact. -Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden Freight Damage AND theft
And watch out for theft...I once had ordered -12- two-volt cells from by battery dealer but only -11- were on the pallet. They were delivered to a neighbor business who has a forklift and signs for me. No damage was noticed but somewhere along the way a battery was removed(most likely to sell for the lead) and the pallet re-wrapped. There was nothing I or my distributor could do for recourse. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 1:43 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden Freight Damage Luke, When you first posted I forwarded your request to our warehouse manager, who's quite experienced. He didn't receive any of the responses from other Wrenches, but sent this to me this morning: . Inspect it immediately for obvious signs of damage. This means walking around the whole delivery or moving the boxes around to view all sides for potential damages. . Compare the number of shipping units received to the number listed on the delivery receipt. . Sign the delivery receipt. I always sign the papers or the scanner with the number of handling units (or boxes if its parcel) then my signature. While the driver is there, compare the pieces you are receiving to the delivery receipt. If the condition and quantity of your shipment is acceptable, the driver will ask you to sign the delivery receipt. The driver will give you a copy and take the original signed copy with him/her (as proof of delivery). A signed delivery receipt with no exceptions is called a clear delivery. Clear deliveries mean there were no shortages or visible damage at the time of delivery. A shipment invoice will be sent to the paying party soon after pickup or delivery, depending on whether the shipment is prepaid or collect. If a shipment is short or damaged, you can still accept the delivery with notes on the shipper papers. If the shipment is too damaged and will require extra resources in time and reshipment - refuse the whole shipment. It's the duty of the shipper and the consignee to mitigate the loss. After you accept the shipment, take steps to protect it from further loss and promptly file a claim for the actual shortages or damages involved. Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com On 11/5/2013 8:58 PM, Luke Christy wrote: Wrenches, Thanks to everyone who responded to my Freight Damage post. I wouldn't wish freight nightmares on anyone, but it is somewhat comforting to hear that most folks have run into this problem over the years. The major takeaway seems to be that there is no substitute for a thorough inspection of every delivery, even though that's often logistically difficult. Also pushing back on the denied claim to see if the carrier will come around to some kind of settlement. Given that the carrier in question is Con-way and they are generally surly even at the local office, I don't have a lot of hope for that, but it seems worth a try. I'm thinking in the future it may be worth it to pay extra for lift gate service with a call-ahead so that I can receive the deliveries personally at my shop. It has been convenient to have my friends with a loading dock take delivery of my shipments, but there is only so much I can ask them to do in terms of looking for damage. In the past I have tried the tactic of having the person signing for the freight put something like Subject to Inspection for Damage on the BOL, but it's hard for that to work well when you never know who will actually sign for the item. Of course, with this latest broken shipment, the disclaimer didn't get on the BOL. Thanks again. May all your pallets arrive intact. -Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalT: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerT: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 mailto:sgsrenewab...@gmail.com sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 http://www.sgsrenewables.com www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
One thing we find is asking who our supplier is shipping on we find Fed Ex very
careful willing to admit damages also process claims quickly. Conway We
never damage anything we don't use ABF. always broken freight.
Overnight/UPS is questionable. Self insuring trucking companies will always
deny damaging freight. We also AVOID like the plauge interline carriers again
check w/ fed x.
We have our truck freight delivered to a trucking terminal, while this can
create problems w/ our relationship IF there is damage, they are instructed to
ALWAYS sign possible concealed damage or if things really look bad refuse
them outright then I will review.
On Nov 4, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Luke Christy wrote:
Wrenches,
We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping
gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2
costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other
Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in
trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation:
I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple
broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something
heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a
neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they
have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to
fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice
the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for.
However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the
shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them
of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim.
I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without
considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the
claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting
damage.
It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet
apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can
leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money.
This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've
had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It
suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my
deliveries without a thorough inspection.
I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and
the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is
insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says
that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in
this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my
future premiums.
I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm
wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume
must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight
companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident,
since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to
sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the
packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk
it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial
insurance?
Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue.
Thanks. - Luke
Luke Christy
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03
CoSEIA Certified PV Installer
Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
Appeal this! Can I have your supervisors name and number please! Just keep going up the ladder until you get action. But first talk to the local terminal to see if they have any insight on who to talk to and how to appeal. Hope that helps! Jeff Sent from my iPhone On Nov 4, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Luke Christy sgsrenewab...@gmail.com wrote: Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden Freight Damage
Wrenches, Thanks to everyone who responded to my Freight Damage post. I wouldn't wish freight nightmares on anyone, but it is somewhat comforting to hear that most folks have run into this problem over the years. The major takeaway seems to be that there is no substitute for a thorough inspection of every delivery, even though that's often logistically difficult. Also pushing back on the denied claim to see if the carrier will come around to some kind of settlement. Given that the carrier in question is Con-way and they are generally surly even at the local office, I don't have a lot of hope for that, but it seems worth a try. I'm thinking in the future it may be worth it to pay extra for lift gate service with a call-ahead so that I can receive the deliveries personally at my shop. It has been convenient to have my friends with a loading dock take delivery of my shipments, but there is only so much I can ask them to do in terms of looking for damage. In the past I have tried the tactic of having the person signing for the freight put something like Subject to Inspection for Damage on the BOL, but it's hard for that to work well when you never know who will actually sign for the item. Of course, with this latest broken shipment, the disclaimer didn't get on the BOL. Thanks again. May all your pallets arrive intact. -Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
This has happened to me a bunch. In my opinion, it is very important to unpack all modules and equipment and inspect them before signing for a delivery. We would have the driver unload modules on skids onto ground (if he had a lift gate) or onto dock, and cut open module skids, inspect and take tons of pictures. If everything looked good then sign for delivery and load modules into shop one by one (by hand). Kinda labor intensive, but its better than being stuck having to eat thousands of dollars in damages. Sometimes on damaged module orders, you wouldnt have to refuse complete delivery, just work with your distributor for reimbursement or replacement on damaged items (because you took extra care to document all the damage with pictures). Roy Rakobitsch NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer® NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible Small Wind installer Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety Rescue Wind/PV Design Engineer Windsine Inc. 631-514-4166 www.windsine.org On Mon, November 4, 2013 11:47 am, Luke Christy wrote: Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org This communication is for use by the intended recipient and contains information that may be privileged, confidential or copyrighted under applicable law. If you are not the intended
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
Hi Luke, Shipping damage is a direct loss to profit, so the carrier will want to have reasonable proof confirming they are actually responsible. Anyone can say it was delivered that way. If it is necessary to have the delivery person sit there while you unpack everything, so be it. Do not sign anything until then. Sometimes, the manufacturer may step up and cover shipping damage to keep the customer happy. Eric _ Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/solar | Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551 *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: Luke Christy sgsrenewab...@gmail.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 11/04/2013 08:47 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage Sent by: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
When modules are rec'd, sign all freight bills with exception or subject to inspection. Take LOTS of pictures if there is any hidden damage as it sits on the pallet. If you see any pallets with ANY holes, straps broken, or shrink wrap loose, it's best to take a picture before it gets off the truck. NOTE: if it's got blue shrink wrap on it, it's been repacked - consider refusing the pallet or inspect it thoroughly. If you do have problems, contact the people at the local terminal - they are usually willing to help a bit more than dealing with the corporate folks. Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco, TX 76712 www.holteksolar.com 254-751-9111 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Luke Christy Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 10:47 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalT: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerT: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
I has been our experience that just about EVERY freight damage claim is initially denied. They like to negotiate with you and give you a settlement offer. We make a good visual inspection, and if there is so much as a scratch or grease mark on the wrap, we note possible hidden damage. We threatened to make drivers wait for unpackaging, but the local managers told us just to note on every bill of lading that there may be hidden damage. That sounds disingenuous to me, but it may be all we can to do protect ourselves. It's a tough situation - we've found broken modules in the middle of a pallet with no apparent external damage to the frames or packaging. Did that happen at the factory? On the boat? At the distributor? On the truck(s)? On my forklift? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Luke Christy sgsrenewab...@gmail.comwrote: Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
Hey Luke, Was it Saia?? We have had 2 claims this season as well. Similar fork issue. One was a transfer from Saia to another freight company to us. According to the driver, it arrived that morning damaged on the dock and they are obliged to deliver it regardless. The other directly from Saia. One claim closed, and the other I believe is still open. I think the distributor had a bit of leverage with the shipper as to how it is handled. We did catch it, and documented it with pics. The other was completely concealed as the fork damaged the pallet from below. Even if we unwrapped the shipment, you couldn't notice the damage until you lifted the bottom module. Good lesson from ole Murphy I guess. I just got hyper vigilant on inspection, and noticing which shipper is bringing the damaged goods... On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Luke Christy sgsrenewab...@gmail.comwrote: Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
Just have to pile on the stack, for lack of a better term. I have had panels come in that had 6 panels shattered in the center of the stack, something (like a fork) had touched them and shifted them so they shattered from the weight on the glass. I now pick them up at the dock and go thru the entire stack, then put on corners made from 1x6 boards and ratchet strap them together so they cannot shift. They are not as expensive as they were 20 years ago or so, but the glass and the profit is thinner on a panel these days, not to mention the frames. It takes some time but is faster than fighting with the shipping companies if I find it later after delivery! I also once had a gas fridge come in with a fork lift hole in the center of the side of the fridge! How do you miss by that much? Later, Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jason pozner Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 1:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage Hey Luke, Was it Saia?? We have had 2 claims this season as well. Similar fork issue. One was a transfer from Saia to another freight company to us. According to the driver, it arrived that morning damaged on the dock and they are obliged to deliver it regardless. The other directly from Saia. One claim closed, and the other I believe is still open. I think the distributor had a bit of leverage with the shipper as to how it is handled. We did catch it, and documented it with pics. The other was completely concealed as the fork damaged the pallet from below. Even if we unwrapped the shipment, you couldn't notice the damage until you lifted the bottom module. Good lesson from ole Murphy I guess. I just got hyper vigilant on inspection, and noticing which shipper is bringing the damaged goods... _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6806 - Release Date: 11/03/13 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
