Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Wow that is bad! I only have used their 400AH 6V and prefer a wet battery
from Surrette, US, or Trojan for Lead Acid.


> On 1/18/2018 10:18 AM, Drake wrote:
>> A Concorde AGM PVX 3050T recently failed in a bank of 8. Larry mentioned
>> a couple of brands experiencing problems. These batteries are 4 years
>> old and have been kept in float in an off grid system, never stressed.
>> Hopefully Concorde batteries are not going the way of Trojan L-16s. Has
>> anyone else had problems with Concorde?
>
> About three or four years ago we started experiencing problems with
> Concorde PVX batteries. I use them in smaller systems. Typically in
> their range of smallest to around 200 amp/hours. Telemetry sort of
> applications with small wind and/or PV powering small loads. Lots of
> floating and generally pleasant cycles.
>
> Problems:
> Leaking battery terminals when batteries are laid on their sides.
>
> Low capacity. Not testing at anywhere near their rated capacity after
> just a few cycles.
>
> Dead on arrival, even with current date code.
>
> Seemingly high self discharged. Full charged battery reading 10.5 volts
> after 6 weeks of storage.
>
> I had a rash of these sort of problems. Perhaps 10 batteries out of 30
> over the course of a year. The distributor was pleasant and replaced
> batteries at no charge. But I decided the Concorde batteries didn't seem
> to be acting as premium as they used to. So I switched to bog standard
> AGM batteries for most small applications. Universal Battery and
> PowerSonic and our battery distributor's house brand of Chinese
> batteries. Tried some Full River batteries last year and they seem to be
> doing fine.
>
> The funny thing is I have small systems from early 2000's still running
> on their original PVX batteries. But I don't feel that would be possible
> with the batteries I was getting when I finally gave up.
>
>
>
>
> --
> -James Jefferson Jarvis
> APRS World, LLC
> +1-507-454-2727
> www.aprsworld.com
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[James Jefferson Jarvis]

On 1/18/2018 10:18 AM, Drake wrote:
A Concorde AGM PVX 3050T recently failed in a bank of 8. Larry mentioned 
a couple of brands experiencing problems. These batteries are 4 years 
old and have been kept in float in an off grid system, never stressed. 
Hopefully Concorde batteries are not going the way of Trojan L-16s. Has 
anyone else had problems with Concorde?


About three or four years ago we started experiencing problems with 
Concorde PVX batteries. I use them in smaller systems. Typically in 
their range of smallest to around 200 amp/hours. Telemetry sort of 
applications with small wind and/or PV powering small loads. Lots of 
floating and generally pleasant cycles.


Problems:
Leaking battery terminals when batteries are laid on their sides.

Low capacity. Not testing at anywhere near their rated capacity after 
just a few cycles.


Dead on arrival, even with current date code.

Seemingly high self discharged. Full charged battery reading 10.5 volts 
after 6 weeks of storage.


I had a rash of these sort of problems. Perhaps 10 batteries out of 30 
over the course of a year. The distributor was pleasant and replaced 
batteries at no charge. But I decided the Concorde batteries didn't seem 
to be acting as premium as they used to. So I switched to bog standard 
AGM batteries for most small applications. Universal Battery and 
PowerSonic and our battery distributor's house brand of Chinese 
batteries. Tried some Full River batteries last year and they seem to be 
doing fine.


The funny thing is I have small systems from early 2000's still running 
on their original PVX batteries. But I don't feel that would be possible 
with the batteries I was getting when I finally gave up.





--
-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
www.aprsworld.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Drake]

A Concorde AGM PVX 3050T recently failed in a 
bank of 8. Larry mentioned a couple of brands 
experiencing problems. These batteries are 4 
years old and have been kept in float in an off 
grid system, never stressed. Hopefully Concorde 
batteries are not going the way of Trojan L-16s. 
Has anyone else had problems with Concorde?



At 03:34 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If
the inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I
could see having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's
when I have to. Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon?
Good Luck

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Answers to questions:
>
>
>
> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 390AH
> @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly raised
> internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. There is
> another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 30A draw it
> is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, and 0.05V from
> the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 6.0, 5.93, 5.92,
> 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a constant load during the
> test.
>
>
>
> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client
> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. There
> is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, simplisafe
> security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to serve the less
> reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn light. I have
> already talked to them about thinking hard on what items can be removed
> for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of the camera systems
> too, likely the one requiring the wifi range extenders). All other seasons
> the system is fine.
>
>
>
> As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter for
> any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would likely
> abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But thank you to
> all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units seemed to have the
> right specs to do the job if we go that route. We would also install them
> using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above the standard low voltage
> cutoff of the rest of the system. We would also only go this route if all
> AC loads could be removed by doing this, allowing us to remove the 36w
> idle draw of the Outback.
>
>
>
> With Regards,
>
>
>
> Daniel Young,
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
>
>
> Lead Systems Designer for:
>
>
>
>  <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com
>
> Ph: 740-274-0139
>
>
>
> We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects!  Check out a few
> in our photo gallery:
> 
<http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric>

> http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric
>
> This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee.
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>
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Starlight Solar Power Systems
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:08 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
>
>
>
> I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are loosing
> capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally high failures
> from 2 brands.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay  <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Can you tell us:
>
>
>
> Battery make,model and size?
>
>
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young <
> <mailto:dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system.
> The system is 3yrs old and they

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Daniel Young]

Thanks for all the input. I like the "new battery Fund" idea, we might have to 
implement something like that. Certainly helps incentivize the client to make 
every watt count.

I agree the batteries are on their way out the door, but not quite there yet. 
After 3yrs where they were getting nearly daily cycling due to the extra loads 
the client installed. They are getting close to the expected 1,000Cycle life 
@50% DOD. We're going to work with them to try to extend the life until the end 
of the summer/fall next year, then look at the best battery option at that time 
for their situation.

This is about to branch off into a subject for another thread, so I think I'll 
start a new one for the purpose of battery options for an unheated garage in a 
mixed hot/cold climate.

With Regards,

Daniel Young, 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

Lead Systems Designer for:

www.dovetailsolar.com
Ph: 740-274-0139

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of frenergy
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 11:47 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

Dave,

 Next to the invoice for the cost of the battery (and new cables 
and labor and freight of course), post a large envelope next to
it:  "NEXT BATTERY SAVINGS ACCOUNT, If you don't pay attention and ruin your 
battery in 2 years, insert $35/week.  If you care for your battery like a 
newborn baby, insert $5/week" .applicable for 8, L-16's.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[frenergy]

Dave,

            Next to the invoice for the cost of the battery (and new 
cables and labor and freight of course), post a large envelope next to 
it:  "NEXT BATTERY SAVINGS ACCOUNT, If you don't pay attention and ruin 
your battery in 2 years, insert $35/week.  If you care for your battery 
like a newborn baby, insert $5/week" .applicable for 8, L-16's.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Or just design extra loading in. Tell them they have this much wiggle room
and after that, it is the next size in battery and more solar. People
always use more after a year or so. I also have the client post a copy of
the cost for the battery on the wall near the system. Good Luck!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


> Do an Energy Load Evaluation, it commits the client to participation in a
> personal way. I will not design without one.
>
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Young
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: 'RE-wrenches' 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
>
> Agreed Dave, there are more loads than the original design accounted for.
> The client understands this so at least we're not in hot water. We're just
> trying to help them figure out options.
>
> As for the converters, this was the idea before the client told us about
> the freezer being left on while they were away. It was originally planned
> that the freezer and fridge were only to be used while they were on site.
> The converters were only the plan when we thought we were dealing with 4-5
> different DC loads, and assuming 2 different DC voltages being needed. The
> situation changed since the original post.
>
> The site does have a flexnet-DC, this is what I'm using for my analysis of
> the loads on an ongoing basis. I've been using the information coming from
> the 2 shunts used in the system, as my experience has been that they are
> the most accurate part of the system viewable from Optics-RE.
>
> As for concords, they don't appear to be very different from the cut sheet
> standpoint. Similar cycle life, similar capacity vs temperature. But they
> are both AGM. I know concord is a big name in the AGM space as they supply
> to the D.O.D. but our local suppliers do not carry them. I'd be open to
> others opinions on the different brand options. Most AGM system we put in
> are just floating for the 1-2 times a year the power goes out for suburban
> and semi-rural clients. This off grid job went AGM due to the expected
> long absences and unconditioned battery location (expected cold temps
> while possibly at a lower SOC). The client really did not want to do the
> standard flooded battery maintenance.
>
> With Regards,
>
> Daniel Young,
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
> Lead Systems Designer for:
>
> www.dovetailsolar.com
> Ph: 740-274-0139
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:34 PM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
>
> Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If
> the inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I
> could see having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's
> when I have to. Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon?
> Good Luck
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
>> Answers to questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8:
>> 390AH @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly
>> raised internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge.
>> There is another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a
>> 30A draw it is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix,
>> and 0.05V from the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88,
>> 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a
>> constant load during the test.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client
>> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design.
>> There is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Dana]

Do an Energy Load Evaluation, it commits the client to participation in a 
personal way. I will not design without one. 


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Daniel Young
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 1:51 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

Agreed Dave, there are more loads than the original design accounted for. The 
client understands this so at least we're not in hot water. We're just trying 
to help them figure out options.

As for the converters, this was the idea before the client told us about the 
freezer being left on while they were away. It was originally planned that the 
freezer and fridge were only to be used while they were on site. The converters 
were only the plan when we thought we were dealing with 4-5 different DC loads, 
and assuming 2 different DC voltages being needed. The situation changed since 
the original post.

The site does have a flexnet-DC, this is what I'm using for my analysis of the 
loads on an ongoing basis. I've been using the information coming from the 2 
shunts used in the system, as my experience has been that they are the most 
accurate part of the system viewable from Optics-RE.

As for concords, they don't appear to be very different from the cut sheet 
standpoint. Similar cycle life, similar capacity vs temperature. But they are 
both AGM. I know concord is a big name in the AGM space as they supply to the 
D.O.D. but our local suppliers do not carry them. I'd be open to others 
opinions on the different brand options. Most AGM system we put in are just 
floating for the 1-2 times a year the power goes out for suburban and 
semi-rural clients. This off grid job went AGM due to the expected long 
absences and unconditioned battery location (expected cold temps while possibly 
at a lower SOC). The client really did not want to do the standard flooded 
battery maintenance.

With Regards,

Daniel Young,
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

Lead Systems Designer for:

www.dovetailsolar.com
Ph: 740-274-0139

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If the 
inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I could see 
having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's when I have to. 
Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon?
Good Luck

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Answers to questions:
>
>
>
> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 
> 390AH @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly 
> raised internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge.
> There is another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 
> 30A draw it is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, 
> and 0.05V from the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 
> 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a 
> constant load during the test.
>
>
>
> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client 
> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design.
> There is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, 
> simplisafe security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to 
> serve the less reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn 
> light. I have already talked to them about thinking hard on what items 
> can be removed for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of 
> the camera systems too, likely the one requiring the wifi range 
> extenders). All other seasons the system is fine.
>
>
>
> As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter 
> for any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would 
> likely abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But 
> thank you to all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units 
> seemed to have the right specs to do the job if we go that route. We 
> would also install t

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Ray]

The cell failures described are yet another sign the batteries need to 
be replaced.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 1/16/2018 1:51 PM, Daniel Young wrote:

Agreed Dave, there are more loads than the original design accounted for. The 
client understands this so at least we're not in hot water. We're just trying 
to help them figure out options.

As for the converters, this was the idea before the client told us about the 
freezer being left on while they were away. It was originally planned that the 
freezer and fridge were only to be used while they were on site. The converters 
were only the plan when we thought we were dealing with 4-5 different DC loads, 
and assuming 2 different DC voltages being needed. The situation changed since 
the original post.

The site does have a flexnet-DC, this is what I'm using for my analysis of the 
loads on an ongoing basis. I've been using the information coming from the 2 
shunts used in the system, as my experience has been that they are the most 
accurate part of the system viewable from Optics-RE.

As for concords, they don't appear to be very different from the cut sheet 
standpoint. Similar cycle life, similar capacity vs temperature. But they are 
both AGM. I know concord is a big name in the AGM space as they supply to the 
D.O.D. but our local suppliers do not carry them. I'd be open to others 
opinions on the different brand options. Most AGM system we put in are just 
floating for the 1-2 times a year the power goes out for suburban and 
semi-rural clients. This off grid job went AGM due to the expected long 
absences and unconditioned battery location (expected cold temps while possibly 
at a lower SOC). The client really did not want to do the standard flooded 
battery maintenance.

With Regards,

Daniel Young,
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

Lead Systems Designer for:

www.dovetailsolar.com
Ph: 740-274-0139

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If the 
inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I could see 
having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's when I have to. 
Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon?
Good Luck

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


Answers to questions:



The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8:
390AH @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly
raised internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge.
There is another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a
30A draw it is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix,
and 0.05V from the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88,
6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a
constant load during the test.



There are more loads than just networking and security that the client
just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design.
There is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem,
simplisafe security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to
serve the less reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn
light. I have already talked to them about thinking hard on what items
can be removed for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of
the camera systems too, likely the one requiring the wifi range
extenders). All other seasons the system is fine.



As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter
for any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would
likely abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But
thank you to all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units
seemed to have the right specs to do the job if we go that route. We
would also install them using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above
the standard low voltage cutoff of the rest of the system. We would
also only go this route if all AC loads could be removed by doing
this, allowing us to remove the 36w idle draw of the Outback.



With Regards,



Daniel Young,

NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90



Lead Systems Designer for:



  <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com

Ph: 740-274-0139



We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects!  Check out a
few in our photo gallery:
<http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+el
ectric>
http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+ele
ctric

This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee.
It may contain information which is le

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Daniel Young]

Agreed Dave, there are more loads than the original design accounted for. The 
client understands this so at least we're not in hot water. We're just trying 
to help them figure out options.

As for the converters, this was the idea before the client told us about the 
freezer being left on while they were away. It was originally planned that the 
freezer and fridge were only to be used while they were on site. The converters 
were only the plan when we thought we were dealing with 4-5 different DC loads, 
and assuming 2 different DC voltages being needed. The situation changed since 
the original post.

The site does have a flexnet-DC, this is what I'm using for my analysis of the 
loads on an ongoing basis. I've been using the information coming from the 2 
shunts used in the system, as my experience has been that they are the most 
accurate part of the system viewable from Optics-RE.

As for concords, they don't appear to be very different from the cut sheet 
standpoint. Similar cycle life, similar capacity vs temperature. But they are 
both AGM. I know concord is a big name in the AGM space as they supply to the 
D.O.D. but our local suppliers do not carry them. I'd be open to others 
opinions on the different brand options. Most AGM system we put in are just 
floating for the 1-2 times a year the power goes out for suburban and 
semi-rural clients. This off grid job went AGM due to the expected long 
absences and unconditioned battery location (expected cold temps while possibly 
at a lower SOC). The client really did not want to do the standard flooded 
battery maintenance.

With Regards,

Daniel Young, 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

Lead Systems Designer for:

www.dovetailsolar.com
Ph: 740-274-0139

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If the 
inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I could see 
having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's when I have to. 
Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon?
Good Luck

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Answers to questions:
>
>
>
> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 
> 390AH @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly 
> raised internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. 
> There is another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 
> 30A draw it is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, 
> and 0.05V from the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 
> 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a 
> constant load during the test.
>
>
>
> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client 
> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. 
> There is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, 
> simplisafe security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to 
> serve the less reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn 
> light. I have already talked to them about thinking hard on what items 
> can be removed for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of 
> the camera systems too, likely the one requiring the wifi range 
> extenders). All other seasons the system is fine.
>
>
>
> As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter 
> for any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would 
> likely abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But 
> thank you to all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units 
> seemed to have the right specs to do the job if we go that route. We 
> would also install them using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above 
> the standard low voltage cutoff of the rest of the system. We would 
> also only go this route if all AC loads could be removed by doing 
> this, allowing us to remove the 36w idle draw of the Outback.
>
>
>
> With Regards,
>
>
>
> Daniel Young,
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
>
>
> Lead Systems Designer for:
>
>
>
>  <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com
>
> Ph: 740-274-0139
>
>
>
> We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects!  Check out a 
> few in our photo gallery:
> <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+el
> ectric> 
> http://www.dovetailsol

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If
the inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I
could see having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's
when I have to. Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon?
Good Luck

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Answers to questions:
>
>
>
> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 390AH
> @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly raised
> internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. There is
> another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 30A draw it
> is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, and 0.05V from
> the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 6.0, 5.93, 5.92,
> 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a constant load during the
> test.
>
>
>
> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client
> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. There
> is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, simplisafe
> security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to serve the less
> reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn light. I have
> already talked to them about thinking hard on what items can be removed
> for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of the camera systems
> too, likely the one requiring the wifi range extenders). All other seasons
> the system is fine.
>
>
>
> As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter for
> any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would likely
> abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But thank you to
> all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units seemed to have the
> right specs to do the job if we go that route. We would also install them
> using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above the standard low voltage
> cutoff of the rest of the system. We would also only go this route if all
> AC loads could be removed by doing this, allowing us to remove the 36w
> idle draw of the Outback.
>
>
>
> With Regards,
>
>
>
> Daniel Young,
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
>
>
> Lead Systems Designer for:
>
>
>
>  <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com
>
> Ph: 740-274-0139
>
>
>
> We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects!  Check out a few
> in our photo gallery:
> <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric>
> http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric
>
> This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee.
> It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and
> exempt from disclosure.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
> message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this message
> and/or the information contained in the message.  If you have received
> this message in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and
> delete this message along with any attachments.  Unauthorized interception
> of this email is a violation of criminal laws and laws covering electronic
> communications privacy matters.
>
>
>
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Starlight Solar Power Systems
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:08 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
>
>
>
> I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are loosing
> capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally high failures
> from 2 brands.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay  <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Can you tell us:
>
>
>
> Battery make,model and size?
>
>
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young <
> <mailto:dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system.
> The system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery
> bank is loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is
> triggering more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the
> generator triggering if possible.
>
>
>
> The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which
> further hurts the battery bank capa

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Howie Michaelson]

Daniel,
While the Meanwell has been a good choice for me at times, I have also run
across some of their converters which have an active cooling fan which is
steady on (no thermal control). This leaves a steady phantom load as well
as a fairly loud background drone. And their tech support did not
accurately portray these specs to me when I asked.
Howie

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Daniel Young 
wrote:

> Answers to questions:
>
>
>
> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 390AH
> @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly raised
> internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. There is
> another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 30A draw it is
> only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, and 0.05V from the
> average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91,
> 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a constant load during the test.
>
>
>
> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client
> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. There is
> a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, simplisafe security
> system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to serve the less reliable
> security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn light. I have already talked
> to them about thinking hard on what items can be removed for the winter at
> least (DVR is going away, and one of the camera systems too, likely the one
> requiring the wifi range extenders). All other seasons the system is fine.
>
>
>
> As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter for
> any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would likely
> abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But thank you to
> all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units seemed to have the
> right specs to do the job if we go that route. We would also install them
> using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above the standard low voltage
> cutoff of the rest of the system. We would also only go this route if all
> AC loads could be removed by doing this, allowing us to remove the 36w idle
> draw of the Outback.
>
>
>
> With Regards,
>
>
>
> Daniel Young,
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
>
>
> Lead Systems Designer for:
>
> [image: Dovetail 2013 cmyk 300dpi.jpg]
>
> *www.dovetailsolar.com* <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/>
>
> Ph: 740-274-0139 <(740)%20274-0139>
>
>
>
> We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects!  Check out a few in
> our photo gallery:
> *http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric*
> <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric>
>
> This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee.
> It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and
> exempt from disclosure.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
> message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this message
> and/or the information contained in the message.  If you have received this
> message in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete this
> message along with any attachments.  Unauthorized interception of this
> email is a violation of criminal laws and laws covering electronic
> communications privacy matters.
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Starlight Solar Power Systems
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:08 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
>
>
>
> I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are loosing
> capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally high failures
> from 2 brands.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
>
>
> Can you tell us:
>
>
>
> Battery make,model and size?
>
>
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young 
> wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system.
> The system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery
> bank is loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is
> triggering more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the
> generator triggering if possible.
>
>
>
> The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which
> further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a security
> system with a cell modem installed and alwa

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Daniel Young]

Answers to questions:

 

The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 390AH @48V 
nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly raised internal 
resistance when tested under a load then under charge. There is another one 
showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 30A draw it is only 0.12V 
lower than the highest battery in the mix, and 0.05V from the average battery 
voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 
1500W space heater as a constant load during the test.

 

There are more loads than just networking and security that the client just 
recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. There is a 
satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, simplisafe security 
system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to serve the less reliable 
security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn light. I have already talked to 
them about thinking hard on what items can be removed for the winter at least 
(DVR is going away, and one of the camera systems too, likely the one requiring 
the wifi range extenders). All other seasons the system is fine.

 

As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter for any 
unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would likely abandon 
that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But thank you to all that 
provided guidance there. The meanwell units seemed to have the right specs to 
do the job if we go that route. We would also install them using a LVD of some 
sort, set somewhere above the standard low voltage cutoff of the rest of the 
system. We would also only go this route if all AC loads could be removed by 
doing this, allowing us to remove the 36w idle draw of the Outback.

 

With Regards,

 

Daniel Young, 

NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

 

Lead Systems Designer for:



 <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com

Ph: 740-274-0139

 

We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects!  Check out a few in our 
photo gallery:   
<http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric> 
http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric

This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee.  It may 
contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from 
disclosure.  If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not 
disclose, print, copy or disseminate this message and/or the information 
contained in the message.  If you have received this message in error, please 
reply and notify the sender (only) and delete this message along with any 
attachments.  Unauthorized interception of this email is a violation of 
criminal laws and laws covering electronic communications privacy matters. 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

 

I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are loosing 
capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally high failures from 
2 brands. 

 

Larry

On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Can you tell us:

 

Battery make,model and size?

 

Jay

Peltz power. 


On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young < <mailto:dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> 
dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

 

I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. The 
system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery bank is 
loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is triggering more 
often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the generator triggering if 
possible.

 

The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which 
further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a security system 
with a cell modem installed and always on. This fortunately allows Optics-RE 
access, but unfortunately based on the FNDC shunt readings, is pulling a 
consistent 150w from the battery bank. Currently the network and security 
equipment is powered from standard wall-warts running on AC.

 

I’d like to help the client extend the time between generator cycles by taking 
the network loads and powering them directly from the battery bank (the loads 
are all 12Vdc). Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent quality DC_DC 
converter that would be applicable? Given inverter losses and the efficiency of 
the typical wall-wart, I’d expect the running loads to be closer to 80-100w 
rather than the 150w we see now. The intent is to then take the inverter into 
search mode, or even switch it off, to remove the tare losses there, and also 
to take all the wasted power from the standard wall-warts and go to a si

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are loosing 
capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally high failures from 
2 brands. 

Larry

On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay  wrote:

Can you tell us:

Battery make,model and size?

Jay
Peltz power. 

On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young mailto:dyo...@dovetailsolar.com>> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>  
> I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. The 
> system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery bank is 
> loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is triggering 
> more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the generator 
> triggering if possible.
>  
> The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which 
> further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a security 
> system with a cell modem installed and always on. This fortunately allows 
> Optics-RE access, but unfortunately based on the FNDC shunt readings, is 
> pulling a consistent 150w from the battery bank. Currently the network and 
> security equipment is powered from standard wall-warts running on AC.
>  
> I’d like to help the client extend the time between generator cycles by 
> taking the network loads and powering them directly from the battery bank 
> (the loads are all 12Vdc). Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent 
> quality DC_DC converter that would be applicable? Given inverter losses and 
> the efficiency of the typical wall-wart, I’d expect the running loads to be 
> closer to 80-100w rather than the 150w we see now. The intent is to then take 
> the inverter into search mode, or even switch it off, to remove the tare 
> losses there, and also to take all the wasted power from the standard 
> wall-warts and go to a single, more efficient dc power supply.
>  
> Any recommendations on a good DC_DC converter are appreciated.
>  
> With Regards,
>  
> Daniel Young, 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
> Dovetail Solar and Wind
>  
> __
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Glenn Burt]

I have use an Astron 48-12V converter with good success. The one I have used
is the 4812-20, but they also make a less powerful one.

They are not small in form factor, but seem to be reliable.

http://www.astroncorp.com/dcdc.shtml

 

-Glenn

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Daniel Young
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 3:32 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

 

Hello Wrenches,

 

I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. The
system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery bank is
loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is triggering
more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the generator
triggering if possible.

 

The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which
further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a security
system with a cell modem installed and always on. This fortunately allows
Optics-RE access, but unfortunately based on the FNDC shunt readings, is
pulling a consistent 150w from the battery bank. Currently the network and
security equipment is powered from standard wall-warts running on AC.

 

I'd like to help the client extend the time between generator cycles by
taking the network loads and powering them directly from the battery bank
(the loads are all 12Vdc). Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent
quality DC_DC converter that would be applicable? Given inverter losses and
the efficiency of the typical wall-wart, I'd expect the running loads to be
closer to 80-100w rather than the 150w we see now. The intent is to then
take the inverter into search mode, or even switch it off, to remove the
tare losses there, and also to take all the wasted power from the standard
wall-warts and go to a single, more efficient dc power supply.

 

Any recommendations on a good DC_DC converter are appreciated.

 

With Regards,

 

Daniel Young, 

NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

Dovetail Solar and Wind

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Jay]

Can you tell us:

Battery make,model and size?

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young  wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
>  
> I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. The 
> system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery bank is 
> loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is triggering 
> more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the generator 
> triggering if possible.
>  
> The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which 
> further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a security 
> system with a cell modem installed and always on. This fortunately allows 
> Optics-RE access, but unfortunately based on the FNDC shunt readings, is 
> pulling a consistent 150w from the battery bank. Currently the network and 
> security equipment is powered from standard wall-warts running on AC.
>  
> I’d like to help the client extend the time between generator cycles by 
> taking the network loads and powering them directly from the battery bank 
> (the loads are all 12Vdc). Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent 
> quality DC_DC converter that would be applicable? Given inverter losses and 
> the efficiency of the typical wall-wart, I’d expect the running loads to be 
> closer to 80-100w rather than the 150w we see now. The intent is to then take 
> the inverter into search mode, or even switch it off, to remove the tare 
> losses there, and also to take all the wasted power from the standard 
> wall-warts and go to a single, more efficient dc power supply.
>  
> Any recommendations on a good DC_DC converter are appreciated.
>  
> With Regards,
>  
> Daniel Young,
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
> Dovetail Solar and Wind
>  
> __
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[Dan Fink]

Daniel;
I've had good luck with the Samlex DC-DC converters for running 12VDC
lighting loads from a 48VDC battery bank. With a DC overload they sound an
audible alarm and shut down, but reset automatically when the overload is
cleared. They can also be paralleled so no need to select different DC
branch circuits assigned to each converter to balance loads..


Dan Fink
Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Daniel Young 
wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system.
> The system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery
> bank is loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is
> triggering more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the
> generator triggering if possible.
>
>
>
> The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which
> further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a security
> system with a cell modem installed and always on. This fortunately allows
> Optics-RE access, but unfortunately based on the FNDC shunt readings, is
> pulling a consistent 150w from the battery bank. Currently the network and
> security equipment is powered from standard wall-warts running on AC.
>
>
>
> I’d like to help the client extend the time between generator cycles by
> taking the network loads and powering them directly from the battery bank
> (the loads are all 12Vdc). Does anyone have any recommendations for a
> decent quality DC_DC converter that would be applicable? Given inverter
> losses and the efficiency of the typical wall-wart, I’d expect the running
> loads to be closer to 80-100w rather than the 150w we see now. The intent
> is to then take the inverter into search mode, or even switch it off, to
> remove the tare losses there, and also to take all the wasted power from
> the standard wall-warts and go to a single, more efficient dc power supply.
>
>
>
> Any recommendations on a good DC_DC converter are appreciated.
>
>
>
> With Regards,
>
>
>
> Daniel Young,
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
> Dovetail Solar and Wind
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter

[James Jefferson Jarvis]

Mean-Well DC DC converters work well.

You'll find you need a handful of them. Probably some 5 volt loads. And 
12 volt loads. And maybe a 19 volt.


The Mean-Well SD series will adjust slightly out of their rated range. 
So if the specs state it will adjust down to 19 volts, you can probably 
get to 18.


You will, of course, also need a LVD for your DC loads.

150 watts sounds like an awful lot. My off grid house with fridge, all 
the wall warts for various devices, TV, Amazon FireTV box, two or three 
ethernet switches, DSL modem, router, wireless access point, inverter 
idle current, all kinds of monitoring boxes, web cam, GFI and AFCI 
outlets, water softener, microwave, cordless phones, USB outlets, VOIP 
gateway, etc etc ... was about 150 watts. Maybe you can get them to turn 
off all of the non-essential loads.


On 1/15/2018 2:32 PM, Daniel Young wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. 
The system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery 
bank is loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is 
triggering more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the 
generator triggering if possible.


--
-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
www.aprsworld.com
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