Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

The reason for less white PV wire I believe is due to less UV resistance 
capability.  Time showed that it was inferior to black.  Using black in 
lieu of white, and color coding at the terminal connections is an 
allowed practice and that is why less white PV wire is used I believe.  
Chris


On 6/5/2024 4:22 PM, Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches wrote:


White PV wire was something we used to sell often, but that demand has 
dropped off in the last 5 years or so and always wondered why.


Thanks for sharing William

Sunny Regards,

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

**

*Bryan Norkunas *

*PV-Cables Inc. *

*989 Milton Ave Ste 1D*

*Ferndale CA 95536***

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/>

Please print only if necessary.

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of 
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please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all 
copies of the original message.



*From:* RE-wrenches  on 
behalf of William Miller via RE-wrenches 


*Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 12:53:52 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

Friends:

On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color 
should my grounded PV conductor be?


History:

In the beginning, negative leads were always black.

When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, 
the requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 
200.6(A)(3).


When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the 
negative was floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.


Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not 
solidly, but through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor 
or a combination.  A new term was created,  functionally grounded.  
This grounding was most often done to implement ground fault detection 
and interruption, or GFDI.  I always assumed that if PV equipment had 
GFDI it had to feature a grounded polarity, most often indirectly, or 
functionally.


Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back 
to needing grey/white, most often for the negative lead.


I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded 
lead.  They have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to 
verify, I called Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was 
talking about.  They did not know the term functionally grounded and 
could not verify if their equipment established a ground connection, 
solid or otherwise, to either polarity.


This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is 
causing the GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the 
PV circuit is functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it 
elsewhere will defeat the GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.


Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?

Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty 
of Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They 
said none of their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect 
they should be using white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that 
because Sol-Arc can’t tell me it the PV circuits are functionally 
grounded or not.  Frustrating!


Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically 
says the negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are 
installing Outback CCs you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells 
white PV wire.


Confusing? Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say: 
“Solar?  It can’t be that complicated!”


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Jason Szumlanski
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?

"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG 
wire"


Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor 
to the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the 
suggested place to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why 
does it make a difference? It would still be electrically bonded to 
the grounding terminal in the inverter.


I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding 
conductor from the array connected to the ground terminal in the 
inverter at a home. I am getting an F08 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

in their installation manuals, SolArk indicates black and red colors for PV
conductors.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches]

SolArk arrays are ungrounded. However, because they are transformerless,
when the inverter is operating, there is a reference to ground on the DC
side via the AC side neutral bond to ground. So, a ground fault on the AC
side will also cause a GF error.

Many transformerless interactive inverters are using Isolation Resistance
testing to detect ground fault, rather than measuring current. Sol-Ark
doesn't have any literature to say what method of GF detection they use,
but it is unlikely there is a reference to ground via the GF detection
method.

In any case, they aren't solidly grounded, and none of the DC conductors
should be white or grey, they can both be hot with respect to ground.

Eric Smiley (he/him) - Design Manager

 250.703.6004
 e...@vecoop.ca
 888.386.0116
 3-4997 Polkey Rd, Duncan BC, V9L 6W3
 viridiansolar.ca




Viridian Solar honours the ancestral grounds on which we live and provide
services, recognising that these lands are unceded Indigenous territory. We
are steadfast in our commitment to reconciliation and acknowledge the rich
history and traditions that characterise this land that we all consider
home.



On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 at 13:07, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color should my
> grounded PV conductor be?
>
>
>
> History:
>
>
>
> In the beginning, negative leads were always black.
>
>
>
> When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, the
> requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 200.6(A)(3).
>
>
>
> When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the
> negative was floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.
>
>
>
> Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not
> solidly, but through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor or a
> combination.  A new term was created,  functionally grounded.  This
> grounding was most often done to implement ground fault detection and
> interruption, or GFDI.  I always assumed that if PV equipment had GFDI it
> had to feature a grounded polarity, most often indirectly, or functionally.
>
>
>
> Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back to
> needing grey/white, most often for the negative lead.
>
>
>
> I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded lead.
> They have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to verify, I
> called Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was talking about.
> They did not know the term functionally grounded and could not verify if
> their equipment established a ground connection, solid or otherwise, to
> either polarity.
>
>
>
> This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is
> causing the GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the PV
> circuit is functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will
> defeat the GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?
>
>
>
> Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty of
> Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They said none
> of their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect they should be
> using white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that because Sol-Arc can’t
> tell me it the PV circuits are functionally grounded or not.  Frustrating!
>
>
>
> Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically says
> the negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are installing
> Outback CCs you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells white PV wire.
>
>
>
> Confusing?  Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say:  “Solar?
> It can’t be that complicated!”
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding
>
>
>
> Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?
>
>
>
> "GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"
>
>
>
> Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to
> the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place
> to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a
> difference? It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal
> in the inverter.
>
>
>
> I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor
> from the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home.
> I 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches]

2020 NEC® identification requirements in 690.31(B)(2) state that "Only
solidly grounded PV system dc circuit conductors shall be marked in
accordance with 200.6." (200.6 is Means of Identifying Grounded Conductors")

If the circuit is nonsolidly grounded, then positive conductors can be
identified with +, POSITIVE, or POS if color coding is not being used; if
it is, they can be any color other than green white or gray. Nonsolidly
grounded negative conductors can be identified with -, NEGATIVE, or NEG if
color coding is not being used; if it is they can be any color other than
green, white, gray, or red.

Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org



On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:08 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color should my
> grounded PV conductor be?
>
>
>
> History:
>
>
>
> In the beginning, negative leads were always black.
>
>
>
> When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, the
> requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 200.6(A)(3).
>
>
>
> When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the
> negative was floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.
>
>
>
> Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not
> solidly, but through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor or a
> combination.  A new term was created,  functionally grounded.  This
> grounding was most often done to implement ground fault detection and
> interruption, or GFDI.  I always assumed that if PV equipment had GFDI it
> had to feature a grounded polarity, most often indirectly, or functionally.
>
>
>
> Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back to
> needing grey/white, most often for the negative lead.
>
>
>
> I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded lead.
> They have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to verify, I
> called Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was talking about.
> They did not know the term functionally grounded and could not verify if
> their equipment established a ground connection, solid or otherwise, to
> either polarity.
>
>
>
> This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is
> causing the GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the PV
> circuit is functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will
> defeat the GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?
>
>
>
> Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty of
> Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They said none
> of their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect they should be
> using white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that because Sol-Arc can’t
> tell me it the PV circuits are functionally grounded or not.  Frustrating!
>
>
>
> Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically says
> the negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are installing
> Outback CCs you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells white PV wire.
>
>
>
> Confusing?  Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say:  “Solar?
> It can’t be that complicated!”
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding
>
>
>
> Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?
>
>
>
> "GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"
>
>
>
> Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to
> the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place
> to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a
> difference? It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal
> in the inverter.
>
>
>
> I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor
> from the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home.
> I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the
> DC side with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage
> to ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to
> rule it out as a source of the fault.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
> Florida Solar Design Group
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

White PV wire was something we used to sell often, but that demand has dropped 
off in the last 5 years or so and always wondered why.
Thanks for sharing William

Sunny Regards,
[Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables Inc.
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>


 [cid:image002.jpg@01DA17CF.578FC540]  Please print only if necessary.

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.


From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 12:53:52 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding


Friends:



On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color should my 
grounded PV conductor be?



History:



In the beginning, negative leads were always black.



When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, the 
requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 200.6(A)(3).



When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the negative was 
floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.



Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not solidly, but 
through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor or a combination.  A 
new term was created,  functionally grounded.  This grounding was most often 
done to implement ground fault detection and interruption, or GFDI.  I always 
assumed that if PV equipment had GFDI it had to feature a grounded polarity, 
most often indirectly, or functionally.



Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back to needing 
grey/white, most often for the negative lead.



I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded lead.  They 
have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to verify, I called 
Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was talking about.  They did 
not know the term functionally grounded and could not verify if their equipment 
established a ground connection, solid or otherwise, to either polarity.



This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is causing the 
GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the PV circuit is 
functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will defeat the 
GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.



Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?



Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty of 
Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They said none of 
their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect they should be using 
white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that because Sol-Arc can’t tell me 
it the PV circuits are functionally grounded or not.  Frustrating!



Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically says the 
negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are installing Outback CCs 
you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells white PV wire.



Confusing?  Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say:  “Solar?  It 
can’t be that complicated!”



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985





From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]
 On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Jason Szumlanski
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding



Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?



"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"



Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to the 
grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place to 
connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a difference? 
It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal in the inverter.



I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor from 
the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home. I am 
getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the DC side 
with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage to ground. 
But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to rule it out as a 
source of the fault.







Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches]

Arent you really working with an EGC though?This would make it bare or green 
insulated.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling 
errors.-- Original message--From: William Miller via RE-wrenchesDate: 
Wed, Jun 5, 2024 4:08 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William Miller;Subject:Re: 
[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame groundingFriends: On a related 
subject, I was researching the question: What color should my grounded PV 
conductor be?   History: In the beginning, negative leads were always black.   
When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, the 
requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 200.6(A)(3). When 
transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the negative was 
floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable. Then the NEC recognized that 
some leads were kind of grounded, not solidly, but through some components, 
either OCPD, resistors, sensor or a combination.  A new term was created,
  functionally grounded.  This grounding was most often done to implement 
ground fault detection and interruption, or GFDI.  I always assumed that if PV 
equipment had GFDI it had to feature a grounded polarity, most often 
indirectly, or functionally. Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  
Therefore we are back to needing grey/white, most often for the negative lead.  
 I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded lead.  They 
have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to verify, I called 
Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was talking about.  They did 
not know the term functionally grounded and could not verify if their equipment 
established a ground connection, solid or otherwise, to either polarity. This 
distinction applies here because it may help determine what is causing the GFDI 
fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the PV circuit is functionally 
grounded, but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will defea
 t the GFDI and
 may cause nuisance tripping. Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a 
functional ground bond? Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, 
who sells plenty of Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  
They said none of their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect they 
should be using white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that because Sol-Arc 
can’t tell me it the PV circuits are functionally grounded or not.  
Frustrating! Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically 
says the negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are installing 
Outback CCs you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells white PV wire. 
Confusing?  Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say:  “Solar?  It 
can’t be that complicated!” William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, 
Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: 
RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.or
 g] On Behalf Of Jason
 Szumlanski via RE-wrenchesSent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AMTo: 
RE-wrenchesCc: Jason SzumlanskiSubject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel 
frame grounding Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual? 
"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire" 
Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to the 
grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place to 
connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a difference? 
It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal in the 
inverter.  I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding 
conductor from the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a 
home. I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the 
DC side with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage to 
ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to rule it 
ou
 t as
 a source of the fault.   Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Friends:



On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color should my
grounded PV conductor be?



History:



In the beginning, negative leads were always black.



When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, the
requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 200.6(A)(3).



When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the negative
was floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.



Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not solidly,
but through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor or a
combination.  A new term was created,  functionally grounded.  This
grounding was most often done to implement ground fault detection and
interruption, or GFDI.  I always assumed that if PV equipment had GFDI it
had to feature a grounded polarity, most often indirectly, or functionally.



Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back to
needing grey/white, most often for the negative lead.



I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded lead.
They have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to verify, I
called Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was talking about.
They did not know the term functionally grounded and could not verify if
their equipment established a ground connection, solid or otherwise, to
either polarity.



This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is causing
the GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the PV circuit is
functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will defeat the
GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.



Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?



Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty of
Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They said none
of their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect they should be
using white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that because Sol-Arc can’t
tell me it the PV circuits are functionally grounded or not.  Frustrating!



Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically says the
negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are installing Outback
CCs you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells white PV wire.



Confusing?  Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say:  “Solar?
It can’t be that complicated!”



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Jason Szumlanski
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding



Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?



"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"



Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to
the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place
to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a
difference? It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal
in the inverter.



I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor
from the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home.
I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the
DC side with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage
to ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to
rule it out as a source of the fault.







Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

This is a partial backup scenario and the main service panel has a solid
neutral to ground bond. I have not been able to find anywhere else where
there is a bond, but there is always the chance that there is a neutral
wire in a switch box or outlet box somewhere in the house that is touching
an equipment ground or metallic enclosure.



On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 9:53 AM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> You should be able to land your PV EGC in the inverter ground bar.  You
> could do a quick resistance check to verify the +, - PV
>
> Is there a bond somewhere (upstream service panel or in the Sol-Ark
> itself) between ground and neutral?  If not, this can cause this fault.
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 7:03 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?
>>
>> "GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG
>> wire"
>>
>> Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to
>> the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place
>> to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a
>> difference? It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal
>> in the inverter.
>>
>> I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor
>> from the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home.
>> I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the
>> DC side with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage
>> to ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to
>> rule it out as a source of the fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
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>>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

Hi Jason,

You should be able to land your PV EGC in the inverter ground bar.  You
could do a quick resistance check to verify the +, - PV

Is there a bond somewhere (upstream service panel or in the Sol-Ark itself)
between ground and neutral?  If not, this can cause this fault.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 7:03 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?
>
> "GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"
>
> Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to
> the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place
> to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a
> difference? It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal
> in the inverter.
>
> I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor
> from the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home.
> I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the
> DC side with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage
> to ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to
> rule it out as a source of the fault.
>
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches]

I usually get the 08 GFDI error when I haven’t bonded neutral to ground 
downstream. (Typically because I booted up the inverter after DC connection but 
before any AC wires are landed.) That goes away once it is fully commissioned. 

I get the F23 - Tz_GFCI_OC_Fault If is related to the PV array, leakage or 
bonding. 

I do always run a properly sized ground wire from the array to the inverter 
ground. 

Thank you,

Maverick

Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
 • Solar Commander Remote Power
 • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
maver...@mavericksolar.com
512-460-9825



> On Jun 5, 2024, at 8:03 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?
> 
> "GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"
> 
> Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to the 
> grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place to 
> connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a difference? 
> It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal in the 
> inverter. 
> 
> I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor from 
> the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home. I am 
> getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the DC side 
> with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage to 
> ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to rule 
> it out as a source of the fault.
> 
> 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski 
> Florida Solar Design Group 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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> other:
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> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
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> 
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