Re: [realXtend] Re: Virtual Berlin Gallery Weekend
Shame he didn't get the full client to work. At the end of the days we were quite pleased how few actually problems with the Tundra client. The bulk of those were lower end macs like older version macbook airs and mac minis. On the windows side im not sure if I remember any issues running it, but as he mentions there directx he surely had problems on windows. If he still wants to try it, maybe he could post and describe here how it was not working and what happened. Him saying its a firewall issue seems weird to me if he was visiting from home, from company offices where UDP might be restricted on other than some widely used ports it is quite likely (this has been reported many times from Nokia folks etc.). I assume he got the viewer up from the portal login if he suspected firewall issues. The F1 console log at least shows you if it tried connecting :) Happy to see some SL/OS people giving it a try. I actually talked to multiple during the event inworld. Btw. I'm not sure if this will kill his/your enthusiasm on the thing, but the flash based client was not actually connected to a Tundra server (not the same ones where Tundra clients connected, or to its own). It did share the scene, assets and the data that populated the scene with the actual Tundra world. Connecting to a Tundra server is quite easily doable though, as that flash thing can do (afaik) raw UDP connections. It was just no in scope of this particular project to implement the protocol etc. to the flash one. Playsign (who made the browser part) have already done webgl clients that connected to an actual Tundra server via websockets and have avatars mixed in with full Tundra clients in the scene. Hopefully I'm not talking too much out of my ass here, Toni can correct me if I misspoke :) Best regards, Jonne Nauha Adminotech developer On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Lord lords...@gmail.com wrote: Ener Hax of iLiveSL and Sim On A Stick fame did a small write-up about experiencing this : http://iliveisl.com/pseudo-3d-art-exhibit/ I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at how well the browser based viewer worked..although I didn't quite understand the eyeballs thing. On Monday, May 7, 2012 5:05:39 AM UTC-4, antont wrote: Is publicly open for anyone to visit, more info in http://realxtend.wordpress.**com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-** in-berlin-and-realxtend/http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-in-berlin-and-realxtend/ Direct link to login buttons -- both Tundra and the browser based version: http://vgwb.spinningwire.com/ Cheers, ~Toni -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
Re: [realXtend] Re: Virtual Berlin Gallery Weekend
On May 9, 2012, at 2:49 AM, Lord wrote: I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at how well the browser based viewer worked..although I didn't quite understand the eyeballs thing. The eyeball is just a mesh+texture for the avatar that the customer thought that might be nice :) It does fit the tech/config where the movements are largely automatic, e.g. the autofly from a picture to another -- an animated human avatar with legs would have been more work to make look ok for such autowalks (I think still quite easily doable for ok non-perfect level). Also one dilemma is that we wanted to show the avatars in front of the art pieces that they are looking at, so that everyone can see who else is looking at the same piece. But we also wanted that the viewing angle is direct, to not obstruct the view of the art pic itself. This means that full-sized human avatars would block the view. Options are to make the human dwarfs, or scale up the gallery so that it looks like it's for giants -- or this kind of smaller non-human avatars which don't block the view. BTW you can click on the art pic you are at to zoom close to it and get a clear view -- it hides the UI and the avatars, and the textures are 2k also in the Flash version so should be ok quality to view. About tablets -- there's a quite common missunderstandin there: the Flash tech does run on iOS and Android phones and tablets, in fact we have been testing this same gallery application on iPhone and iPad. It just called Adobe AIR in that case, and gives installable apps instead of loading with a browser like with desktop OSes. One idea is to make little a generic realXtend open source demo using the tech from that project, we could perhaps put that app then to appstore etc. too so that people will try also with phones tablets. Thanks for testing and reporting! ~Toni On Monday, May 7, 2012 5:05:39 AM UTC-4, antont wrote: Is publicly open for anyone to visit, more info in http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-in-berlin-and-realxtend/ Direct link to login buttons -- both Tundra and the browser based version: http://vgwb.spinningwire.com/ Cheers, ~Toni -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
Re: [realXtend] Re: Virtual Berlin Gallery Weekend
On May 9, 2012, at 3:58 AM, Jonne Nauha wrote: and the data that populated the scene with the actual Tundra world. Connecting to a Tundra server is quite easily doable though, as that flash thing can do (afaik) raw UDP connections. It was just no in scope of this particular project to implement the protocol etc. to the flash one. Playsign (who made the browser part) have already done webgl clients that connected to an actual Tundra server via websockets and have avatars mixed in with full Tundra clients in the scene. Hopefully I'm not talking too much out of my ass here, Toni can correct me if I misspoke :) Yep that is correct, that gallery client doesn't connect to Tundra. The earlier WebGL+WebSockets one does, and we also made a similar test/demo with Flash with TCP (Flash clients connects to a similar Python module running in Tundra than the websocket one, just uses normal TCP for simple JSON messaging) in the research phase in December/January. UDP and kNet for native Tundra connections would be possible but is not implemented. In the gallery thing we use XMPP for all the networking, which I find very interesting in general as a possible Internet scale virtual worlds backend, perhaps nice to use with Tundra too. Gives authentication, federation, is also used by gtalk and facebook chat, has simple way to have avatar info in the profiles etc. And presence info, ready queries for how many people are on which room/server etc. Is extensible and supports additional communication channels, so to e.g. put up a big grid like setup of Tundra worlds could be setup with XMPP so that the Tundra and Mumble etc. connection addresses would be given from the XMPP world info. In this particular case it allowed scaling well, as was easy to create 51 sub-scenes with their own communication channels for the movement messages .. on a robust mature production quality server (ejabberd) with an already existing client side network library (XIFF is XMPP for Flash/AIR) and for the supporting Python bots that run on the server side etc. Is easy to scale by putting up more erlang or xmpp nodes etc. We tested that 30people * 50galleries = 1500 client connections was still ok for a single small server, thanks to the lazy messaging (same avatar/messaging design might allow even much more with the optimized messaging in Tundra), and the robustness of ejabberd. One way to integrate the two implementations would be to make the Tundra *server* connect to XMPP as well (either with Qt XMPP C++ lib + JS logic or with Python XMPP libs) to get the presence info of the Flash clients so it could then use some lightweight means to have those eyeballs live in the Tundra scene as well. Or perhaps better a server side headless Tundra client which does the relaying so the messaging to the Tundra server would be already optimized. Let's see if we get to try that at some point :) Jonne Nauha ~Toni On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Lord lords...@gmail.com wrote: Ener Hax of iLiveSL and Sim On A Stick fame did a small write-up about experiencing this : http://iliveisl.com/pseudo-3d-art-exhibit/ I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at how well the browser based viewer worked..although I didn't quite understand the eyeballs thing. On Monday, May 7, 2012 5:05:39 AM UTC-4, antont wrote: Is publicly open for anyone to visit, more info in http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-in-berlin-and-realxtend/ Direct link to login buttons -- both Tundra and the browser based version: http://vgwb.spinningwire.com/ Cheers, ~Toni -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
