Re: [recoznet2] missed articles
Noel has taken a stance which is so commendable. I guess as a social worker I would feel the need to have an aboriginal social system in place. Recently in our lecture we have been spending a great deal of time talking abvout activism and how to do that. Our concepts of change are as happened in the sixties and seventies only through conflict that change will occur. However conflict does not need to have violence in order for it to occur or aggression. If we want quick dynamic change perhaps that may be so. But what if society changed from the ground up ie education within the understanding of knowledge, the first people developing for themselves an education program which would be used in all school across the nation of Australia and giving everyone in Australia a right to learn about a culture that is rich and resourceful and the longest living known to man. The legends such as those that appear on SBS occasionally. The stories of spiritualism the ability for the first people as teh american indians have done to adopt peoples or invite people into their unique culture. I would rather find comfort in knowing I am talking to the survivors of an invaded nation of people rather than the VICTIMS. (PS Hope Im making sense please tell me if Im not) Regards Lance
Re: [recoznet2] missed articles
Thanks to Graham for this response. Seems to me that this issue (as raised by Noel Pearson) should be occupying the list, more so than arguments about who said what to whom in a chance meeting and what they might have meant. Which is not to say the discussion re Karyn's bio is not important. Incidentally, as a non-Aboriginal person, I related to Lance's response and would like to thank him for it. I just can't accept Irene's assertion that "you might be 6th generation here but you are in your place aboriginal somewhere else." Maybe I misunderstood what she meant. I lived overseas for a number years, including England, and the one thing I found out was that I wasn't "of" those places, no matter what my genes were made of. I was "of" Australia, and that "ofness" is no doubt quite different to that of First People's but it is still real. But maybe Irene thinks there shouldn't be any non-Aboriginal people on the list either, expressing a point of view. Anyway, I hope we get some comments on the Pearson piece because it seems to me he has really taken a risk here. But I guess we all do, everytime we open our mouths. Tim Rosemary Neill's articles seem to express a similar sentiment to a report in this morning's CM about a paper that Noel Pearson has written.- Our Right to Take Responsibility. Full text follows from the CM's web site: Pearson hits welfare "poison" 30apr99 PROMINENT Aboriginal leader Noel Pearson has appealed to governments to help break the welfare dependency of indigenous people so they can live more healthy, dignified lives. Speaking in Cairns this week, Mr Pearson said welfare was "a poison" that had turned many Aboriginal people into "drunken parasites" and was destroying family and community life. He also challenged Aborigi nal leaders to cease disempowering their own people through continually depicting them as "victims". But most of all, Mr Pearson wants Aboriginal people to accept that, along with the rights comes responsibility to themselves, their wives, husbands, children, elders and the general community. "The whole Aboriginal policy debate has been about rights human rights, legal rights, land rights, individual rights against government and so on," he said. "There has been no discussion about our responsibility. There is a defensiveness." Mr Pearson has written a 42-page discussion paper for Cape York Aboriginal leaders, titled Our Right to Take Responsibility. "We have to get rid of the welfare system from Aboriginal community governance in Cape York Peninsula, and get rid of the welfare mentality that has taken over our people," the document says. It states the two key problems affecting Aboriginal people are racism and welfare dependency. "It is time we analysed our condition as a people without being defeated and paralysed by the racial issues. This is not to say we should forget about racism, or pretend that it doesn't exist," Mr Pearson wrote. "By addressing the concrete social and economic circumstances of our welfare dependency, we can find the power necessary to prevail against racism." Mr Pearson advocates a changed system in which money coming into communities there are 13 on the Cape which are home for about 12,000 indigenous people is controlled by "a new interface" between the federal and state governments and ATSIC. He said the new administration needed to be "holistic and de-welfared" and he is seeking support for Cape York to be the pilot model for the changed system. "Welfare is a resource that is laced with poison and the poison present is the money- for-nothing principle," Mr Pearson said. "In the 1950s and 60s, our people worked hard in the hot sun for red-necked pastoralists, and people placed value on every penny earned. It is only the welfare system that has devalued money because it is not earned." Mr Pearson said the "welfare poison" was progressively breaking down Aboriginal society a society that put tremendous pressure on community members to "provide resources to a parasitic drink-and-gamble coterie". "Since the 1967 referendum, Aboriginal people have believed their right earned was the right to drink," he said. "What about the responsibility to your children? The rights that are acknowledged are the rights of people to party, drink, use money in their own destruction. No talk of rights of children or old people. "And why has there been this collapse in responsibility? In my view, it is related to the nature of the economy under which Aboriginal people are forced to exist the poisonous welfare economy. "Aboriginal people should participate in the real economy where you don't get money for nothing, you have to work. Aborig
Re: [recoznet2] missed articles
Rosemary Neill's articles seem to express a similar sentiment to a report in this morning's CM about a paper that Noel Pearson has written.- Our Right to Take Responsibility. Full text follows from the CM's web site: Pearson hits welfare "poison" 30apr99 PROMINENT Aboriginal leader Noel Pearson has appealed to governments to help break the welfare dependency of indigenous people so they can live more healthy, dignified lives. Speaking in Cairns this week, Mr Pearson said welfare was "a poison" that had turned many Aboriginal people into "drunken parasites" and was destroying family and community life. He also challenged Aborigi nal leaders to cease disempowering their own people through continually depicting them as "victims". But most of all, Mr Pearson wants Aboriginal people to accept that, along with the rights comes responsibility to themselves, their wives, husbands, children, elders and the general community. "The whole Aboriginal policy debate has been about rights human rights, legal rights, land rights, individual rights against government and so on," he said. "There has been no discussion about our responsibility. There is a defensiveness." Mr Pearson has written a 42-page discussion paper for Cape York Aboriginal leaders, titled Our Right to Take Responsibility. "We have to get rid of the welfare system from Aboriginal community governance in Cape York Peninsula, and get rid of the welfare mentality that has taken over our people," the document says. It states the two key problems affecting Aboriginal people are racism and welfare dependency. "It is time we analysed our condition as a people without being defeated and paralysed by the racial issues. This is not to say we should forget about racism, or pretend that it doesn't exist," Mr Pearson wrote. "By addressing the concrete social and economic circumstances of our welfare dependency, we can find the power necessary to prevail against racism." Mr Pearson advocates a changed system in which money coming into communities there are 13 on the Cape which are home for about 12,000 indigenous people is controlled by "a new interface" between the federal and state governments and ATSIC. He said the new administration needed to be "holistic and de-welfared" and he is seeking support for Cape York to be the pilot model for the changed system. "Welfare is a resource that is laced with poison and the poison present is the money- for-nothing principle," Mr Pearson said. "In the 1950s and 60s, our people worked hard in the hot sun for red-necked pastoralists, and people placed value on every penny earned. It is only the welfare system that has devalued money because it is not earned." Mr Pearson said the "welfare poison" was progressively breaking down Aboriginal society a society that put tremendous pressure on community members to "provide resources to a parasitic drink-and-gamble coterie". "Since the 1967 referendum, Aboriginal people have believed their right earned was the right to drink," he said. "What about the responsibility to your children? The rights that are acknowledged are the rights of people to party, drink, use money in their own destruction. No talk of rights of children or old people. "And why has there been this collapse in responsibility? In my view, it is related to the nature of the economy under which Aboriginal people are forced to exist the poisonous welfare economy. "Aboriginal people should participate in the real economy where you don't get money for nothing, you have to work. Aboriginal people lived at the lowest, most miserable end of the market economy for most of colonial history and the time has come to change all that. Welfare is a parasitic exploiter. "The Government is paying these people to sit around the canteen to drink and destroy the prospects of their children destroy society. The madness of that system has to stop." ti-no-ta wrote: Did anyone happen to post - or can anyone post - the articles by Rosemary Neill in the Australian from last Saturday and Monday on reconciliation and self-determination? As far as I can see, they aren't on the Australian's website. Like a dill, I accidentally tossed them before reading them and would be interested in doing so. Did anyone read them? I'd be interested to hear people's opinions. Does anyone know anything about Rosemary Neill? Thanks for any help Tim
[recoznet2] Preamble and myth
PREAMBLE AS A PETIT-BOURGEOIS MONOLOGUE
The Preamble phenomenon can be seen as involving
an attempt to define the Way(s) of First Peoples in terms
which reproduce the Western world, to recruit First Peoples
into an ideology which is not only not theirs but which allows
not space for the core values of their Way(s).
This stands out like the proverbial dogs testicles in light of the
Democrats wanting to insert the the word 'ownership' into the
clause relating to First Peoples and thus substituting the Democrat
world view and voice for that of the people who, otherwise, would
have a voice of their own as cultural partners.
Of course, the others in the Anglo political elite do not want
to go that "far" - i.e. of bestowing the core of Western
private property mythology upon First Peoples, but for
the wrong reasons - it might cost something!
Who amongst them is taking a position which insists that a
properly resourced consultation process be established with
First Peoples to find out what they wish to say, if anything?
And of course, since so many participating in the debate
have already been recruited into the 'bourgeois' definition of
reality - have undergone the transformations of soul which
taking out a mortgage necessitates - then the absence of the
voice of First Peoples is invisible and of no account.
FROM "LANGUAGE AND MATERIALISM" by
Rosalind Coward and John Ellis
"As the contradictions between bourgeois and proletarian
classes developed, a large middle group emerged, the
petit-bourgeoisie. They do not live in the material reality
of the bourgeoisie (who own the means of production) but
they live bourgeoisie ideological reality as the natural,
unacknowledged limits of their universe. As Barthes analyses
it:
"...the bourgeois ceaselessly absorbs into its ideology a
whole humanity which has none of its fundamental status,
and can only live it in their imagination, that is, through
a fixation and impoverishment of consciousness. By spreading
its representations across the whole catalogue of
petit-bourgeois images, the middle class sanctions the
illusory lack of differentiation between social classes
(Mythologies p 140) [end of Barthes quote]
The petit-bourgeoisie is 'recruited' to bourgeois reality
which appears under such forms as Nation ('national
interest') ... Myth makes the world immediately self-evident,
without contradictions. Bourgeois ideas become the eternal
essences of things, they impregnate everyday reality through
the mechanism of myth"
If we must have myths, which it appears we must, how about
having myths by which we can all live full lives?
Bruce
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[recoznet2] NEW ATSIC CEO WELCOMED
ATSIC 29 April 1999 JOINT STATEMENT NEW ATSIC CEO WELCOMED The Board of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission looks forward to forming a productive working relationship with the new Chief Executive Officer, Mr Mark Sullivan. The Board is anxious to begin work with Mr Sullivan to further advance the interests of its Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander constituents across the country. The Board would also like to pay tribute to the work, particularly over the past 12 months, of Acting CEO Glenn Rees. Mr Rees has helped steer the elected and administrative arms of the Commission through a particularly difficult and challenging period. He has done so with a considerable degree of skill, grace and humour. Mr Sullivan succeeds Ms Patricia Turner who did not seek re-appointment when her term as CEO expired last year. Gatjil Djerrkura Ray Robinson Chairman Deputy Chairman Contacts through the Office of Public Affairs: Brian Johnstone 02 6289 3307 Martin Freckmann 02 6289 3399 Craig Sproule Office of Public Affairs Ph: 02 6289 3450 Fax: 02 6282 2854 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
[recoznet2] Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:18:41 +0930
this following extract quotes are taken from a piece i am currently working on 'raw law' to be published later on sometime...these are some quotes i have taken from ward churchill an aboriginal creek from the usa, sometimes it is helpful to look back at ourselves from the outside, as a reading all of ward churchill's texts are invaluable, 'indians are us' the struggle for the land' 'when predator came' and many other articles and texts... they found these issues were easier to talk with to those living in germany than those who call themselves us citizens i understand we have the same issue here, it is easier for me to gain support from us and europeans than it is within our own homelands, The following quote is taken from a speaking tour of Germany by M Annette Jaimes, Bob Robideau, Paulette D'Auteuil and Ward Churchill. In answering that same question 'what is it we can do to help you', the delegation responded: "You must understand," we stated each time the question arose, "that we really mean it when we say we are all related. Consequently, we see the mechanisms of our oppression as being equally interrelated. Given this perspective, we cannot help but see a victory for you as being simultaneously a victory for us, and vice versa: that a weakening of your enemy here in Germany necessarily weakens ours there, in North America: that your liberation is inseparably linked to our own, and that you should see ours as advancing yours. Perhaps, then, the question should be reversed: what is it that we can best do to help you succeed?." In response the above statement some of the audience took exception to the sameness of the struggle, wanting to emphasise the difference between being colonised and being of the colonising group Churchill records the following response made by his group; We have been forced into knowing the nature of colonialism very well. Along with you, we understand that the colonization we experience finds its origin in the matrix of European culture. But, apparently unlike you, we also understand that in order for Europe to do what it has done to us - in fact, for Europe to become 'Europe' at all - it first had to do the same thing to all of you. In other words, to become a colonizing culture, Europe had first to colonize itself. To the extent that this is true, we find it fair to say that if our struggle must be explicitly anti colonial in its form, content, and aspirations, yours must be even more so. You have, after all, been colonized far longer than we, and therefore much more completely. In fact, your colonization has by now been consolidated to such an extent that - with certain notable exceptions, like the Irish and Euskadi (Basque) nationalists-you no longer even see yourselves as having been colonized. The result is that you have become self-colonizing, conditioned to be so self - identified with your own oppression that you've lost your ability to see it for what it is, much less to resist it in any coherent way. It takes the form of an insight offered by our elders: 'To understand where you are, you must know where you've been, and you must know where you are to understand where you are going.' For us, you see, the past, present, and future are all equally important parts of the same indivisible whole. And we believe this is as true for you as it is for us. In other words, you must set yourselves to reclaiming your own indigenous past. You must come to know it in its own terms-the terms of its internal values and understandings, and the way these were applied to living in this world-not the terms imposed upon it by the order which set out to destroy it. You must learn to put your knowledge of this heritage to use as a lens through which you can clarify your present circumstance, to "know where you are," so to speak. And, from this, you can begin to chart the course of your struggle into the future. Put still another way, you, no less than us, must forge the conceptual tools that will allow you to carefully and consciously orient your struggle to regaining what it is that has been taken from you rather than presuming a unique ability to invent it all anew. You must begin with the decolonization of your own minds, with a restoration of your understanding of who you are, where you come from, what it is that has been done to you to take you to the place in which you now find yourselves. Then, and only then, it seems to us, will you be able to free yourselves from your present dilemma. And further on: In effecting this reconnection to their own indigenous heritage, the German dissidents will at last be able to see nazism - that logical culmination of so much of the predatory synthesis which is 'Europe' - as being, not something born of their own traditions, but as something as alien and antithetical to those traditions as it was/is to the traditions of any other people in the world. In this way, by reintegrating themselves with their indigeno
Re: [recoznet2] karyns bio/irene
how you learn is not simply reliant on how good we are as your teachers. how you learn is also dependent on you ability to undress yourself of non-aboriginal and understand you have an obligation here also. you cant just sit back and take knowledge as student, nungas have never had that luxury. we learn about our stuff from the belly of genocide. most dont survive to live. we can be a guide or a marker in that we have still our place of nunga ness, you need to find that place yourself, because it is the whole planet we are talking about it is all connected, so you might be 6th generation here but you are in your place aboriginal somewhere else, and you need to access it best way you can just like we do we survive genocide to live as nungas best way we can most dont make it. -- > From: Bushranger Ned <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] karyns bio/irene > Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 5:37 PM > > Its quite possible that there are a lot of white folks here on this news > group as well, who feel it is inappropriatte to repond and wait for you and > people like you to respond Irene. We know that we have difficulty > communicating with first people and we have for over 200 years which is why > the situation is now how it is. So those of us here who may be white may be > sitting on the side reading listening learning and watching interactions. > Our ability to learn how it is for you as aboriginals and first people > depends on how you teach us. Im here as a learner about first peoples and > accept I can never be an aboriginal, I am 6th generation australian and feel > I belong to this land as well as you I also accept that you are the > traditional owners of this land and apologise on behalf of my ancestors who > may have been part of the invasion of this land. I am Australian 2nd > peoples immigrant to this country in its 6th generation. I respect my > country that I know live in and only know. I know no other culture than the > one I have, which is a mix of my English and Irish cultures. I am an > Australian Immigrant. I accept that first people must respond angrily to > white folks as well for what the ancestors have done to aboriginal people, > because of their hurt and pain. I grew up in the bush spent my life in > rural outback queensland lived on properties and worked in sheep and cattle > as a ringer and stationhand. Went to Grade 10 only. I saw and experienced > and was involved in many things including fights and shooting roos and pig > hunting and mixed with people of all colours in the outback. I have worked > with many aborigianl people in the bush. I write poems about rural > queensland. I have experienced sites of where aboriginals were massacred in > the early part of this century, I have seen sites where aboriginal people > have walked and lived and died. I still do not feel I have the ability to > know what you and the first Australian people are feeling. > > Perhaps Irene you could tell us of your experinces and help us to understand > a bit about what brings you to be advocating for your people and the pain > they have experinced at the hand of white people. > > I would love to see if people on here can give some stories about their > experiences and what brings them to see the plight of our first nation > people are very real and what we white people on here may learn from that. > > Regards, Lance. > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] karyns bio
no but kevin is an elder that i have known for many years of my learning and that is what i know what do you? is not a matter of logical interpretation that was something that iris stevens did in the kumarangk hearing in weighing up the evidence so i dont really want to get into it at your level -- > From: Don Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] karyns bio > Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:43 AM > > Irene, > > I am wondering why you think that a person who percieves that a meeting with > another person is negative is "insulting". Surely she is entitled to an > opinion and an interpretation of that meeting. > > I was not there so I do not know if Karyn's interpretation is right or > wrong. Were you there in order to determine the rightness or wrongness of > that statement? > > Don > -Original Message- > From: irene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thursday, 29 April 1999 2:22 > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] karyns bio > > > >irene watson wrote > > > >quite clearly you learned nothing from one of our elders kevin buzzacott, > >the way you have interpreted his advise is clearly one of the reasons we as > >nungas tire of speaking to you. you dont listen properly > >like our elders have said we were born with two ears and two eyes and one > >mouth > >one should spend twice as much time listening and watching than speaking. > > > >my advise to you is dont interpret our relationship to the land we are > >quite capable of doing it ourselves it is for you to interpret yours, you > >need to travel for the thousands of years that it will take you back home > >again > >you can take it literally, spiritually, pschycially any way you like but > >you are not a nunga here you are home somewhere else and thats your journey > >just as mine is mine and i am quite capable of the interpretation of that > >for myself as you are yours > > > >nukkan > > > >i wonder why i am a member of a group like this where there is no response > >to one who insults one of our respected elders. > > > >-- > >> From: karyn fearnside <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: [recoznet2] karyns bio > >> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 7:44 AM > >> > >> Hello everyone, > >> > >> I haven't really introduced myself, so here goes: > >> > >> I am a 33 year old white female, my fathers family hail from Britain, > >> Yorkshire to be exact, and arrived in Adelaide during the 60's. My > >> mothers mother was born the eldest of 10 children in Kadina, SA, and > >> according to my birth certificate, my mum was born at Wallaroo. As far > >> as I know, my grandad came over form Cornwall and worked on my great > >> grandparent's farm at the age of 15. This was where he met my > >> grandmother. All I can remember of her was that she was a very > >> religious woman, and took me to Sunday school when we visited them in > >> Karoonda, SA, where they had a sheep and wheat farm. I also remember > >> her doing a lot of work with the aborigines that lived on the edge of > >> the small town. > >> > >> I was born in Canberra, and spent some of my early years going to > >> school overseas, firstly a British school in Kathmandu, and then an > >> American one. I didn't learn anything about aboriginal people when I > >> was at school in Australia, but I did hear about Captain Cook, and got > >> the general idea that the aboriginal people living a traditional life > >> style were a thing of the past. I was quite cross to realise that I > >> had been brainwashed. Firstly I didn't know any aboriginal kids, and > >> if I did, I didn't think anything of it, maybe from growing up > >> overseas, used to being surrounded by all nationalities. Only recently > >> when I finished my degree in visual art, majoring in textiles at the > >> Canberra School of Art, did I take stock of the situation and realise > >> that I had been lied to. Now I think that the Aboriginal history of > >> this country is exciting, and that children should be learning it at > >> school. I think that we should be learning the place names of the > >> aboriginal states, I think that we should acknowledge the original > >> cultures, and embrace our multiculturalism, for us all to be able to > >> live on this continent, honouring the country, respecting each other. > >> > >> I remember thinking that all my life I had been slightly jealous of > >> America for having the American Indians, and that whole mystical > >> approach to life, and the Negro's for bringing all that they had done > >> by hanging onto their culture, and still being able to see their roots > >> from Africa. > >> > >> I did start to become quite philosophical and look at new age ideas > >> in search of some thing that I could be interested in especially in a > >> spiritual way. I checked out Wicca because I thought I should > >> acknowledge my British heritage, not feeling particularly interested > >> in white male go
