RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
Not honest? Excuse me but I have not lied and as I said, I am not here as a member of the QPS I am here as a person who has seen things. My thoughts and views are not on behalf of the Service. I didn't have to say where I worked. I have no idea where the majority of most people on this site are from. But you asked me and I told you the truth. Just you guys are passionate about somethings and fight tooth and nail for, well so too do I. I am totally against corrupt officers, officers who abuse their powers or anyone who decides they are better than others. I'd be the first to dob them in because as far as I am concerned there is no place in the Service for people like them. You can't say for certain that you have changed people's views unless you meet them face to face and se what they are really like. What they say on the internet and what they do in real life are two different things sometimes. Well, that what some of you think. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 5:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only I didn't see a personal attack, Karen. Jack painted a scenario because you left everyone wondering. You haven't been exactly honest with us, have you? You have defended the police without telling us you weren't a disinterested bystander. You have refused to acknowledge that the police sometimes victimise. Some time ago, we had a policeman on the list who's views were very much the same as yours, Karen. There was one difference though, he realised that he should try to help Indigenous youth instead of just judging them. He really cared even though his education had been one of the One Nation point of view. We had very robust discussions on this list then too, but he listened and his views did change somewhat. Trudy Karen Crook wrote: It is coming up with these crazy personal attacks that will see Reconciliation go nowhere. Because you attack others when you don't get the way you want. Hm, that's fair! I think you need a new game plan Jack. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS)
I heartily agree with Rod on this. Laurie has proved his (I'm punting, too, here) credentials over and over on this list. At the very least, as we're moving on past Karen Crooke, let's not allow her to claim any scalps. And any reading of Laurie's postings would see that, although they're justifiably passionate, he doesn't engage in intemperate "attacks". The whole idea of "attacks" is pretty subjective, anyhow, and unless there is actual invective involved, I think we should be a little more tolerant of our own (and perhaps a little less tolerant of the genuine baddies?) Anyhow, thanks, Rod, for a recap of Laurie's greatest hits. Sandy I wrote: Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Whoops! This is NOT what I meant to say! Getting on with everyone is NOT a good idea. It breeds a foolish and useless complacency about issues that really matter! What I meant to say was "let's just get on with it (i.e the issues of real consequence), everyone! I for one, will miss greatly Laurie Ford's contributions. Laurie has been around since long before "recoznet2" came into existence! From the days when Bruce Reyburn first started these very valuable lists in fact. I don't have easy access to his/her (I've never been sure which) early posts but remember: At 09:40 AM +1000 14/7/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This highights the fact that there is no 'System" to be destroyed---rather there are greedy, uncaring individuals whose attitudes must be challenged and overcome, if any real measure of equality and justice is ever to be established. It is important to always refer to these societal transgressors by name if they are to be properly engaged---it is not enough to be forever just ''Struggling against the System." Laurie and At 08:47 AM +1000 20/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This is a big step in the right directionWell done Rod Welford and the Beattie Government. Interestingly, there has not been a word of this successful tranfer of Ownership in the Courier Mail. Maybe the powers that be do not want Queenslanders to see how easily Indigenous Ownership of Land can be restored when a genuine approach is taken---they might begin ignoring the clarion racist calls of the Coalition whenever Native Title is mentioned. Laurie -- Somehow seems pertinent given the current nonsense! And who could forget the wonderful quote from another message: At 08:47 AM +1000 12/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: " Words are the weapons- the armory of the dispossessed"---from the ABC programme "The Irish Empire". My own view is that Laurie should be invited back on board, whatever his/her indiscretions in the heat of the moment! We desperately need people like Laurie around this place! Cheers Rod ~~~ Sandy Sanders Wormhole Books 27A Main Street Upwey VIC 3158 ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 www.wormhole.com.au WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . www.wormhole.com.au --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
I, for one, have found the whole thing extremely useful. There have been some very eloquent and perceptive arguments put forward by people on this list (Karen aside), and I've learned a lot from them... being that I've diverged from the path of ingrained racist ignorance, and am still trying to learn. So even if Karen isn't really what she claims to be (well, if "she" is what Jack says, then she's really no different to what she claims she is anyway), I wouldn't consider any of it a waste of time. Perhaps in the end, it did us some good. Reminded us of what we're fighting (I personally need a little reminder every now and then... I'm sure there's a lot who don't though, so this is just my opinion). Cheers. Glenn Murray "I am a peanut" -Original Message- From: Rod Hagen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 4:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only Whatever the reality of Karen Crook (aka the "coronaqueen") I think your last comment is the most important one, Jack. This is a significant distraction from the real issues and should be treated as such (simply by ignoring it). If there is anything useful to be taken from her posts it is, perhaps the nature and style of the arguments raised. They reflect quite beautifully the thoughts of many whose knowledge of the world relies fundamentally on tabloid newspapers,a certain commercial media outlet's "news" and "current affairs" programs (listen to the Beatles White Album if you want to know which one!) and various radio "shock jocks". There isn't any real point in responding to the "arguments" here (it simply wastes all our time and energy), but you can learn quite a lot from the distillation of them in her posts. Save your responses instead for the next argument you have over a suburban barbecue with the next door neighbor. But lets not waste any more time on it here! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
My votes are: 1) Trudy continues doing a great job 2) Bring Laurie back 3) We don't allow flaming 4) We vote if Trudy wants to remove someone from the list Does any of that make sense? Yes. A big issue is that we shouldn't put Trudy in the position of having to carry the can for all of us, and then cop our dissension/dismay when we don't agree with her decisions. If we can get around that with votes or consensus, then the list will be the better for it. Sandy ~~~ Sandy Sanders Wormhole Books 27A Main Street Upwey VIC 3158 ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 www.wormhole.com.au WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . www.wormhole.com.au --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS)
Has anybody counted how much mail has been generated through this fool or responses to his/her posts?I can't afford the time to follow this crap. She/he is achieving exactly what he/she is trying to do. I think I smell a gundji. Discussion has been centred on reasoning with the unreasonable. I refuse to open any thing with him/her name on it or dealing with topics raised by her/him Track him/her down and transport him/her to Antartica to monitor the habits of penguines where everything is nicely black and white. From: "Sandy Sanders" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:41:41 +1100 Subject: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS) Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I heartily agree with Rod on this. Laurie has proved his (I'm punting, too, here) credentials over and over on this list. At the very least, as we're moving on past Karen Crooke, let's not allow her to claim any scalps. And any reading of Laurie's postings would see that, although they're justifiably passionate, he doesn't engage in intemperate "attacks". The whole idea of "attacks" is pretty subjective, anyhow, and unless there is actual invective involved, I think we should be a little more tolerant of our own (and perhaps a little less tolerant of the genuine baddies?) Anyhow, thanks, Rod, for a recap of Laurie's greatest hits. Sandy I wrote: Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Whoops! This is NOT what I meant to say! Getting on with everyone is NOT a good idea. It breeds a foolish and useless complacency about issues that really matter! What I meant to say was "let's just get on with it (i.e the issues of real consequence), everyone! I for one, will miss greatly Laurie Ford's contributions. Laurie has been around since long before "recoznet2" came into existence! From the days when Bruce Reyburn first started these very valuable lists in fact. I don't have easy access to his/her (I've never been sure which) early posts but remember: At 09:40 AM +1000 14/7/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This highights the fact that there is no 'System" to be destroyed---rather there are greedy, uncaring individuals whose attitudes must be challenged and overcome, if any real measure of equality and justice is ever to be established. It is important to always refer to these societal transgressors by name if they are to be properly engaged---it is not enough to be forever just ''Struggling against the System." Laurie and At 08:47 AM +1000 20/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This is a big step in the right directionWell done Rod Welford and the Beattie Government. Interestingly, there has not been a word of this successful tranfer of Ownership in the Courier Mail. Maybe the powers that be do not want Queenslanders to see how easily Indigenous Ownership of Land can be restored when a genuine approach is taken---they might begin ignoring the clarion racist calls of the Coalition whenever Native Title is mentioned. Laurie -- Somehow seems pertinent given the current nonsense! And who could forget the wonderful quote from another message: At 08:47 AM +1000 12/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: " Words are the weapons- the armory of the dispossessed"---from the ABC programme "The Irish Empire". My own view is that Laurie should be invited back on board, whatever his/her indiscretions in the heat of the moment! We desperately need people like Laurie around this place! Cheers Rod ~~~ Sandy Sanders Wormhole Books 27A Main Street Upwey VIC 3158 ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 www.wormhole.com.au WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . www.wormhole.com.au --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ Peter Tremain Winan-Gidyal Aboriginal Education Centre, Charles Sturt University, Murray. Ph 0260 516706 Fax 0260 516865 Fax
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS)
I have never had the occasion to speak to others on this list, but always read it with interest. Being an African American graduate student (Psychologist), and interested in Indigenous issues (including Aborigines), I find many items of interest in your conversations. This time I must agree with several of your posts that you have let an obvious instigator divert you from important resolution and conversation. I had NEVER received so much email from recoznet! I hope you invite Laurie back. Good luck, Taliba At 01:21 PM 3/20/00 +1000, you wrote: Has anybody counted how much mail has been generated through this fool or responses to his/her posts?I can't afford the time to follow this crap. She/he is achieving exactly what he/she is trying to do. I think I smell a gundji. Discussion has been centred on reasoning with the unreasonable. I refuse to open any thing with him/her name on it or dealing with topics raised by her/him Track him/her down and transport him/her to Antartica to monitor the habits of penguines where everything is nicely black and white. From: "Sandy Sanders" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:41:41 +1100 Subject: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS) Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I heartily agree with Rod on this. Laurie has proved his (I'm punting, too, here) credentials over and over on this list. At the very least, as we're moving on past Karen Crooke, let's not allow her to claim any scalps. And any reading of Laurie's postings would see that, although they're justifiably passionate, he doesn't engage in intemperate "attacks". The whole idea of "attacks" is pretty subjective, anyhow, and unless there is actual invective involved, I think we should be a little more tolerant of our own (and perhaps a little less tolerant of the genuine baddies?) Anyhow, thanks, Rod, for a recap of Laurie's greatest hits. Sandy I wrote: Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Whoops! This is NOT what I meant to say! Getting on with everyone is NOT a good idea. It breeds a foolish and useless complacency about issues that really matter! What I meant to say was "let's just get on with it (i.e the issues of real consequence), everyone! I for one, will miss greatly Laurie Ford's contributions. Laurie has been around since long before "recoznet2" came into existence! From the days when Bruce Reyburn first started these very valuable lists in fact. I don't have easy access to his/her (I've never been sure which) early posts but remember: At 09:40 AM +1000 14/7/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This highights the fact that there is no 'System" to be destroyed---rather there are greedy, uncaring individuals whose attitudes must be challenged and overcome, if any real measure of equality and justice is ever to be established. It is important to always refer to these societal transgressors by name if they are to be properly engaged---it is not enough to be forever just ''Struggling against the System." Laurie and At 08:47 AM +1000 20/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This is a big step in the right directionWell done Rod Welford and the Beattie Government. Interestingly, there has not been a word of this successful tranfer of Ownership in the Courier Mail. Maybe the powers that be do not want Queenslanders to see how easily Indigenous Ownership of Land can be restored when a genuine approach is taken---they might begin ignoring the clarion racist calls of the Coalition whenever Native Title is mentioned. Laurie -- Somehow seems pertinent given the current nonsense! And who could forget the wonderful quote from another message: At 08:47 AM +1000 12/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: " Words are the weapons- the armory of the dispossessed"---from the ABC programme "The Irish Empire". My own view is that Laurie should be invited back on board, whatever his/her indiscretions in the heat of the moment! We desperately need people like Laurie around this place! Cheers Rod ~~~ Sandy Sanders Wormhole Books 27A Main Street Upwey VIC 3158 ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 www.wormhole.com.au WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . www.wormhole.com.au --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mail
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
Whatever the reality of Karen Crook (aka the "coronaqueen") I think your last comment is the most important one, Jack. This is a significant distraction from the real issues and should be treated as such (simply by ignoring it). If there is anything useful to be taken from her posts it is, perhaps the nature and style of the arguments raised. They reflect quite beautifully the thoughts of many whose knowledge of the world relies fundamentally on tabloid newspapers,a certain commercial media outlet's "news" and "current affairs" programs (listen to the Beatles White Album if you want to know which one!) and various radio "shock jocks". There isn't any real point in responding to the "arguments" here (it simply wastes all our time and energy), but you can learn quite a lot from the distillation of them in her posts. Save your responses instead for the next argument you have over a suburban barbecue with the next door neighbor. But lets not waste any more time on it here! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
You people are so wrong - and you think I am!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rod Hagen Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 5:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only I might add that my own "theory" is that there is a far more mundane explanation of Karen than that offered by Jack. I think Karen is a former employee of the Queensland Public Service Media and Public Relations Department who may well genuinely hold to the cliched views that she states here. No doubt she must feel flattered and justified by the response which she has managed to create. Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
A pity those who think they have a sense of huomour could not be more right or funny for that matter!! I am not offended - I understand you have a lack of respect, as everyone thinks I do. I have to prove nothing to you. And I am all woman thank you very much. I wouldn't work for the Prime minister even if you paid me a million dollars. Perhaps you should stop trying to personally attack and work on your comedy routine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jack Ellis Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only Here, after considerable research, is the truth about "Karen Crook". In actual fact "she" is a senior functionary in the Prime Minister's department specialising in infiltrating and disrupting lists and other organisations which pay too much attention to government policy and action. "She"...or rather he...is, in short, an agent provocateur. She replaces a previous agent, who shall remain nameless (it wasn't his real name either)...But We All Know Who He Is. Or Was; he lost his nerve and was brought in from the cold. "Karen Crook" is in fact a pun (Caring Crook, ha ha!) based on George Dubyuh Bush's laughably oxymoronic slogan, "caring conservatism". It's not very funny but, you of course appreciate, a sense of humour doesn't rate high among recruiters for the PM's Dept or at all with the Little Big Man himself. (Either one, Johnny or Dubyuh.) "Her" commission, according to my informant, is to disrupt the list by distracting it. The MO, as recorded in the DOPM handbook, works like this. 1) First, join the group and start making outrageous statements, the more apparently uninformed, the better. Attack the disadvantaged; kick the defenceless; stomp all over the widows and orphans. The sky's the limit. This is the over-the-top phase, anyone can do it, you don't even get to interview stage without some pretty major silliness. 2) When challenged, shift your ground. This is harder; middle-level skill. The aim is to change the subject. Of course, you weren't being serious in the first place, so the last thing you want to do is explain yourself. BUT, and the But is crucial, make sure the switch is totally illogical. Why? See DOPM Manual 07.2.07) all the serious, rational people will dissipate their energies trying to respond as if you actually gave a damn. Which, naturally, you don't. 3) OK. Now the hard part. Here they sort the Lances (SORRY, I didn't mean to say that, Trudy, forget it OK!)... Suggestions follow (and recruits should be encouraged to propose their own idiocies, and appropriately graded). - When you've run out of irrelevancies, play offended. (And play it GOOD, this is what sorts the sheep from the department heads!) - Plead the First. Well, we don't have any rights, so don't take me literally. But weep crocodile tears over your right to express an opinion. Can't _I_ have an opinion, sniff sniff? Everyone else does. Poor me! Good work, sir, that's the way. - On a list, send lots of minor stupidities. Keep serious people off balance. Volume is important here; prioritise numbers over content. Always, always, always keep open the possibility of claiming you said something completely different. (Of course you did. You said seventeen different things and, when it comes down to it, no one's going to remember any of them.) 4) Finally. And I mean finally, this is Top-Level stuff... ...OK, here, now, at this very point in time, as I was about to finish, is Karen's admission, or claim, or boast. But is this true or is it yet another of her porkies? I'll finish and see what happens next. Almost. I can't resist pointing out that when she says I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from BOTH sides (my caps) I'm intrigued to know what that "both" means. _Both_ sides? Cops and robbers. Caring CROOK, as I guessed. Jack This is STILL a distraction from what matters. Jack -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen, I'm not quite sure that I understand all of your last post, but underlying it seems to be an acceptance that the way that our society is organised now with respect to private property is better than it was. If that is the case, would you agree that our current system is more moral? Would you also agree that taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong? With respect to your last comment, if I were living on a sacred site and an aboriginal group had the right to obtain the land from me, then yes, I would go, just as I would if it was required for road purposes, for example. But I would expect to be compensated for the loss of it, and it would probably only occur in circumstances where there was government legislation to
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
It is coming up with these crazy personal attacks that will see Reconciliation go nowhere. Because you attack others when you don't get the way you want. Hm, that's fair! I think you need a new game plan Jack. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jack Ellis Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only Here, after considerable research, is the truth about "Karen Crook". In actual fact "she" is a senior functionary in the Prime Minister's department specialising in infiltrating and disrupting lists and other organisations which pay too much attention to government policy and action. "She"...or rather he...is, in short, an agent provocateur. She replaces a previous agent, who shall remain nameless (it wasn't his real name either)...But We All Know Who He Is. Or Was; he lost his nerve and was brought in from the cold. "Karen Crook" is in fact a pun (Caring Crook, ha ha!) based on George Dubyuh Bush's laughably oxymoronic slogan, "caring conservatism". It's not very funny but, you of course appreciate, a sense of humour doesn't rate high among recruiters for the PM's Dept or at all with the Little Big Man himself. (Either one, Johnny or Dubyuh.) "Her" commission, according to my informant, is to disrupt the list by distracting it. The MO, as recorded in the DOPM handbook, works like this. 1) First, join the group and start making outrageous statements, the more apparently uninformed, the better. Attack the disadvantaged; kick the defenceless; stomp all over the widows and orphans. The sky's the limit. This is the over-the-top phase, anyone can do it, you don't even get to interview stage without some pretty major silliness. 2) When challenged, shift your ground. This is harder; middle-level skill. The aim is to change the subject. Of course, you weren't being serious in the first place, so the last thing you want to do is explain yourself. BUT, and the But is crucial, make sure the switch is totally illogical. Why? See DOPM Manual 07.2.07) all the serious, rational people will dissipate their energies trying to respond as if you actually gave a damn. Which, naturally, you don't. 3) OK. Now the hard part. Here they sort the Lances (SORRY, I didn't mean to say that, Trudy, forget it OK!)... Suggestions follow (and recruits should be encouraged to propose their own idiocies, and appropriately graded). - When you've run out of irrelevancies, play offended. (And play it GOOD, this is what sorts the sheep from the department heads!) - Plead the First. Well, we don't have any rights, so don't take me literally. But weep crocodile tears over your right to express an opinion. Can't _I_ have an opinion, sniff sniff? Everyone else does. Poor me! Good work, sir, that's the way. - On a list, send lots of minor stupidities. Keep serious people off balance. Volume is important here; prioritise numbers over content. Always, always, always keep open the possibility of claiming you said something completely different. (Of course you did. You said seventeen different things and, when it comes down to it, no one's going to remember any of them.) 4) Finally. And I mean finally, this is Top-Level stuff... ...OK, here, now, at this very point in time, as I was about to finish, is Karen's admission, or claim, or boast. But is this true or is it yet another of her porkies? I'll finish and see what happens next. Almost. I can't resist pointing out that when she says I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from BOTH sides (my caps) I'm intrigued to know what that "both" means. _Both_ sides? Cops and robbers. Caring CROOK, as I guessed. Jack This is STILL a distraction from what matters. Jack -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen, I'm not quite sure that I understand all of your last post, but underlying it seems to be an acceptance that the way that our society is organised now with respect to private property is better than it was. If that is the case, would you agree that our current system is more moral? Would you also agree that taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong? With respect to your last comment, if I were living on a sacred site and an aboriginal group had the right to obtain the land from me, then yes, I would go, just as I would if it was required for road purposes, for example. But I would expect to be compensated for the loss of it, and it would probably only occur in circumstances where there was government legislation to back it. That is the point of my example. While there is evidence that colonial administrations actually believed aborigines to have property rights these were never respected. The land was appropriated without the
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS)
Title: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS) I wrote: Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Whoops! This is NOT what I meant to say! Getting on with everyone is NOT a good idea. It breeds a foolish and useless complacency about issues that really matter! What I meant to say was let's just get on with it (i.e the issues of real consequence), everyone! I for one, will miss greatly Laurie Ford's contributions. Laurie has been around since long before recoznet2 came into existence! From the days when Bruce Reyburn first started these very valuable lists in fact. I don't have easy access to his/her (I've never been sure which) early posts but remember: At 09:40 AM +1000 14/7/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This highights the fact that there is no 'System to be destroyed---rather there are greedy, uncaring individuals whose attitudes must be challenged and overcome, if any real measure of equality and justice is ever to be established. It is important to always refer to these societal transgressors by name if they are to be properly engaged---it is not enough to be forever just ''Struggling against the System. Laurie and At 08:47 AM +1000 20/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This is a big step in the right directionWell done Rod Welford and the Beattie Government. Interestingly, there has not been a word of this successful tranfer of Ownership in the Courier Mail. Maybe the powers that be do not want Queenslanders to see how easily Indigenous Ownership of Land can be restored when a genuine approach is taken---they might begin ignoring the clarion racist calls of the Coalition whenever Native Title is mentioned. Laurie -- Somehow seems pertinent given the current nonsense! And who could forget the wonderful quote from another message: At 08:47 AM +1000 12/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: Words are the weapons- the armory of the dispossessed---from the ABC programme The Irish Empire. My own view is that Laurie should be invited back on board, whatever his/her indiscretions in the heat of the moment! We desperately need people like Laurie around this place! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWW http://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
I didn't see a personal attack, Karen. Jack painted a scenario because you left everyone wondering. You haven't been exactly honest with us, have you? You have defended the police without telling us you weren't a disinterested bystander. You have refused to acknowledge that the police sometimes victimise. Some time ago, we had a policeman on the list who's views were very much the same as yours, Karen. There was one difference though, he realised that he should try to help Indigenous youth instead of just judging them. He really cared even though his education had been one of the One Nation point of view. We had very robust discussions on this list then too, but he listened and his views did change somewhat. Trudy Karen Crook wrote: It is coming up with these crazy personal attacks that will see Reconciliation go nowhere. Because you attack others when you don't get the way you want. Hm, that's fair! I think you need a new game plan Jack. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
