Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Mathew Quaife



Lots of RG-174 or Radioshack RG-58 coax makes a good pad, I just did it with a repeater here on two meters. You will have to figure the loss, which would be a lot of coax. For example to cut your power down from 40 watts to 1/2 watt you would need, and this is approximate, about 175 feet of Belden RG8216, and if using RG58 from Radioshack you would need at least 375 feet of coax. What model amplifier do you have? Make sure it is one that can be used in the 138 to 150 Mhz range.

Mathew
kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way to drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go down below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage maxes out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all.KevinK2KMBYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Mike Perryman



I had the same thought... most Moto's are 50 ohms throughout the
various stages of the PA.. not sure about the Maxtrac... but a pile
of RG-58 in a paint can with chassis connectors in the lid might work...
if you only use the driver stage, shouldn't be that much line... a
commercial pad would be better though. Much cleaner
installation.. about 9dB (assuming 3W) should get you close.
Look on ebay for an attenuator.. 

mike

At 08:37 PM 07/13/04 -0700, you wrote:
Lots of RG-174 or Radioshack RG-58 coax makes
a good pad, I just did it with a repeater here on two meters. You
will have to figure the loss, which would be a lot of coax. For
example to cut your power down from 40 watts to 1/2 watt you would need,
and this is approximate, about 175 feet of Belden RG8216, and if using
RG58 from Radioshack you would need at least 375 feet of coax. What
model amplifier do you have? Make sure it is one that can be used
in the 138 to 150 Mhz range.

Mathew


kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently 
running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way to 
drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go down 
below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about 
bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage maxes 
out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this 
before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all.


Kevin
K2KMB












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Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Mike WA6ILQ




Why not look on ebay for a Maxtrac with a blown PA deck - look for 
one with low power output, or couldn't test the TX, so
it's sold as is
If you bypass the final and jumper the driver to the output filter you'll

have a 3-4w TX - and at a good price.
And you won't need an attenuator.
Mike WA6ILQ
At 08:52 PM 7/13/04, you wrote:
I had the same thought...
most Moto's are 50 ohms throughout the various stages of the PA.. not
sure about the Maxtrac... but a pile of RG-58 in a paint can with
chassis connectors in the lid might work... if you only use the driver
stage, shouldn't be that much line... a commercial pad would be
better though. Much cleaner installation.. about 9dB
(assuming 3W) should get you close. Look on ebay for an
attenuator.. 
mike
At 08:37 PM 07/13/04 -0700, you wrote:
Lots of RG-174 or Radioshack RG-58
coax makes a good pad, I just did it with a repeater here on two
meters. You will have to figure the loss, which would be a lot of
coax. For example to cut your power down from 40 watts to 1/2 watt
you would need, and this is approximate, about 175 feet of Belden RG8216,
and if using RG58 from Radioshack you would need at least 375 feet of
coax. What model amplifier do you have? Make sure it is one
that can be used in the 138 to 150 Mhz range.

Mathew

kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently 
running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way to 
drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go down 
below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about 
bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage maxes 
out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this 
before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all.

Kevin 
K2KMB














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Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Mathew Quaife



An attenuator to handle 39.5 watts would have to be rather large to handle the heat, I'd just use the coax, less expensive.

Mathew
Mike Perryman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I must have mis-read the post... but I thought Kevin wanted to drop the TPO down to 300 - 500 mils to drive a cont. duty 110 watt PA.My bad.mikeAt 10:46 PM 07/13/04 -0700, you wrote:
Why not look on ebay for a Maxtrac with a blown PA deck - look for one with "low power output", or "couldn't test the TX, so it's sold as is"If you bypass the final and jumper the driver to the output filter you'll have a 3-4w TX - and at a good price.And you won't need an attenuator.Mike WA6ILQAt 08:52 PM 7/13/04, you wrote:
I had the same thought... most Moto's are 50 ohms throughout the various stages of the PA.. not sure about the Maxtrac... but a pile of RG-58 in a paint can with chassis connectors in the lid might work... if you only use the driver stage, shouldn't be that much line... a commercial pad would be better though. Much cleaner installation.. about 9dB (assuming 3W) should get you close. Look on ebay for an attenuator.. mikeAt 08:37 PM 07/13/04 -0700, you wrote:
Lots of RG-174 or Radioshack RG-58 coax makes a good pad, I just did it with a repeater here on two meters. You will have to figure the loss, which would be a lot of coax. For example to cut your power down from 40 watts to 1/2 watt you would need, and this is approximate, about 175 feet of Belden RG8216, and if using RG58 from Radioshack you would need at least 375 feet of coax. What model amplifier do you have? Make sure it is one that can be used in the 138 to 150 Mhz range.Mathewkbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently 
running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way to 
drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go down 
below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about 
bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage maxes 
out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this 
before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all. 
Kevin 
K2KMB 

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[Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question

2004-07-14 Thread skipp025
It would make more sense to bypass driver stages 
in the amplifier, or find another amplifier. For 
many rb cases... 40 watts is more than enough. 110 
watts out is more trouble than its work, especially 
an in/same band remote base. 

cheers,

skipp 

www.radiowrench.com/sonic 

 kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently 
 running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
 only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way
to 
 drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go
down 
 below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about 
 bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage
maxes 
 out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this 
 before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all.
 
 Kevin
 K2KMB





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Mike Perryman





Matt,

I 
guess I am not the only one missing part of the intended 
info...

1.Jumper around the final.. 
according toKevin output is now 3W
2.Next put an attenuator 
inline to get the3W down to 350 mils 
to 500 mils. 9dB should leave approx 325 
mils. There are mini-circuits pads available SMA in SMA out that will handle the 
job with ease. And they are cheap to 
acquire.
3. 
Don't forget to leave the filter in-line as well.

Now you can drive the110W 
continous duty PA appropriately.

This 
is the main reason I don't post to this group. Most people are too busy 
taking pot-shots at other folks suggestions with little regard for assisting the 
person requesting help. Conversely, there are some very knowledgable folks 
here who always try to help out. 

But the S/N ratio just not up to 
snuff.

Kevin W3KKC, thanks for your hospitality 
and the resources you have provided. Please pardon the bandwidth for my 
rant... it will be the last one. I think I can find pretty much 
anything I am looking for posted on your web site. If not I will pick your 
brain off-line. There are others who have been most helpful, and focused 
on the issues... to you all, thanks as well. I am not going away 
mad... just going away.

To the rest of 
you...

See ya down the 
log

Mike

 

kbednar99 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 
  meter remote base, currently 
  running 40 watts. I have a PA from a 
  Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
  only needs .5 watt for 110 watt 
  output. Anyone know of an easy way to 
  drop the power down on the 
  Maxtrac? These radios wont really go down 
  below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm 
  thinking about 
  bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as 
  the 2nd stage maxes 
  out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. 
  Anyone done this 
  before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all. 
  
  Kevin 
  K2KMB
  


  

  -Original Message-From: Mathew Quaife 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:14 
  AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: 
  [Repeater-Builder] PA question
  An attenuator to handle 39.5 watts would have to be rather large to 
  handle the heat, I'd just use the coax, less expensive.
  
  Mathew













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Ken Arck
At 03:43 PM 7/14/2004 -, you wrote:

For many rb cases... 40 watts is more than enough. 110 
watts out is more trouble than its work, especially 
an in/same band remote base. 

---This is what I was thinking too. All that for an additional 4 or 5 Db
seems like a waste to me. 

I currently run a 2 meter remote with only 10 watts (although that's going
up to 60 but only because I'm replacing my old IC-22U workhorse with a much
newer radio for a remote base). 10 watts has been more than enough 99% of
the time.

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Q
Yes,that will work.All are 50 ohm nominal in and out on the GE. The driver
board does have some neat controls that you will lose,like the thermal and
reflected power protection circuits. I'd stick with the 40 watts,its plenty!
We never use more than 25 watts and usually 5 does the job.
Try this experiment on your repeater,reduce its power output by 3db and see
if anyone noticed,I doubt they will unless on the extreme fringes.YMMV!
- Original Message -
From: Joe Montierth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question



  
  kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote
  base, currently
  running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II
  cont. duty base, that
  only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone
  know of an easy way to
  drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios
  wont really go down
  below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that.
  I'm thinking about
  bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as
  the 2nd stage maxes
  out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts.
  Anyone done this
  before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all.
  Kevin
  K2KMB
  


 There's some good ideas that have been given so far,
 and they will probably work fine. My thought is to
 look at the PA itself and see if there is a stage or
 two you can bypass and run the 40 watt Maxtrax direct
 to the finals of the PA.

 IIRC, and I'm not a MASTRII man, it seems that  the
 first board in the PA boosts the 200 mW to 25-40 watts
 to drive the final PA transistors. Couldn't you bypass
 that board, hooking full Maxtrac power to that point?
 Your final output power could then be adjusted by
 setting the Maxtrac power.

 If this could work, all that should be needed is to
 remove the jumper in the PA from the 40 watt stage to
 the 100 watt stage, and remove the input and bypass it
 to the 100 watt finals.

 Some of you MII people chime in here. I'm going to
 look for a book today and see if this would work.

 If this won't work, no flames please, like I said I'm
 not an MII expert, but I do play one on TV.  :)

 Joe



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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Kevin Bednar
I didn't really look at the db gain with regards to the power outout. DUH! I
apologize to all, I wasn't trying to start trouble. :) With the 40 watts I'm
running I do cover outwards about 100+ miles with the site I'm at. Time to
set up a 2 meter machine instead of a remote base. ;) Thanks to allfor their
replies!


Kevin
K2KMB

-Original Message-
From: Neil McKie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 12:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question


  What is the real difference between 40 and 110 watts in terms of  dB?  Not
very much. 

  In my opinion, the main reason some folks want the 110 watts out  is for
bragging rights. 

  Neil 

skipp025 wrote:
 
 It would make more sense to bypass driver stages in the amplifier, or 
 find another amplifier. For many rb cases... 40 watts is more than 
 enough. 110 watts out is more trouble than its work, especially an 
 in/same band remote base.
 
 cheers,
 
 skipp
 
 www.radiowrench.com/sonic
 
  kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently 
  running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
  only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way
 to
  drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go
 down
  below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about 
  bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage
 maxes
  out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this 
  before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all.
 
  Kevin
  K2KMB
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Mathew Quaife



Mike, if you don't want to cut the maxtrac up, using the coax works just fine, I had the same issue, and I knew the coax would do the trick, but I wanted to make sure there would be no desence. Cut the power down on your transmitter to as low as it will go before it gets any spurs, so that the power out is clean, then reduce the rest with the coax. I did not even put mine in a can or metal box, hangs on the side of the cabinet, and I have no problems at all. My atnenna with a height of only 60' is usable for about 30 miles mobile, and about 10 miles handi-talkie, and works no problem. Just don't use cheap connectors, make sure they are good and tight, and you will be fine. Good luck.

Mathew
Mike Perryman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Matt,

I guess I am not the only one missing part of the intended info...

1.Jumper around the final.. according toKevin output is now 3W
2.Next put an attenuator inline to get the3W down to 350 mils to 500 mils. 9dB should leave approx 325 mils. There are mini-circuits pads available SMA in SMA out that will handle the job with ease. And they are cheap to acquire.
3. Don't forget to leave the filter in-line as well. 

Now you can drive the110W continous duty PA appropriately.

This is the main reason I don't post to this group. Most people are too busy taking pot-shots at other folks suggestions with little regard for assisting the person requesting help. Conversely, there are some very knowledgable folks here who always try to help out. 

But the S/N ratio just not up to snuff.

Kevin W3KKC, thanks for your hospitality and the resources you have provided. Please pardon the bandwidth for my rant... it will be the last one. I think I can find pretty much anything I am looking for posted on your web site. If not I will pick your brain off-line. There are others who have been most helpful, and focused on the issues... to you all, thanks as well. I am not going away mad... just going away.

To the rest of you...

See ya down the log

Mike

 
kbednar99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I'm using a Motorla Maxtrac for a 2 meter remote base, currently 
running 40 watts. I have a PA from a Mastr II cont. duty base, that 
only needs .5 watt for 110 watt output. Anyone know of an easy way to 
drop the power down on the Maxtrac? These radios wont really go down 
below 10 watts, and get very flaky under that. I'm thinking about 
bypassing the final amp stage on the Maxtrac, as the 2nd stage maxes 
out at about 3 watts to drive the PA to 30 watts. Anyone done this 
before, or have any other ideas? TIA to all. 
Kevin 
K2KMB





-Original Message-From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:14 AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA question
An attenuator to handle 39.5 watts would have to be rather large to handle the heat, I'd just use the coax, less expensive.

Mathew
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[Repeater-Builder] Astron Over Voltage or Crowbar issues

2004-07-14 Thread Daron J. Wilson
I've read the description on the repeater builder website of the astron
issues and circuits, but not sure if that will solve what I'm currently
experiencing.

I've got a 50 amp rack mount supply, the problem with them is that if
there is much of a load or draw on them when you DO restore AC power,
they go into this protect mode.  I've got a couple small radios on them,
but when power comes on there is an immediate current draw and that
seems to lock the power supply down.  The only way I have found to get
it back is to turn it off, disconnect the load, plug it in, then hook
the load back up.  

Is it all the same issue and will the overvotage circuit solve that as
well?

Thanks in advance,

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD  ) )
Telecom Manager   ( (
LH Morris Electric, Inc.   ) )
(541) 265-8067 office   _||  mmm!
(541) 265-7652 fax ( ||  coffee!
(541) 270-5886 cellular \||
[EMAIL PROTECTED]||
 







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing PA's - Motorola

2004-07-14 Thread njcabletek
Ive got a few PA's Im wondering if someone can help me identify.

TLE1694A - from a Micor base station.

TLE1693A - also a Micor base.

TTE1552A - from a 5000

Anyone off hand know the specs of these?

Thanking those in advance,

Rod







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Chris Peterson
But we make such a big deal out of having a 7.5 DB antenna rather than a 3.5
DB antenna, and that's only 4.5 DB... :-)


73,
Chris, KG0BP



- Original Message -
From: Neil McKie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question



   Exactly !

   All that effort of just 4.5 dB

   73,

   Neil

 mch wrote:
 
  Less than 4.5 dB.
 
  Joe M.
 
  Neil McKie wrote:
  
 What is the real difference between 40 and 110 watts in terms of
dB?  Not very much.
 






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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question

2004-07-14 Thread Chuck Kelsey
Yep, got to keep in mind both the gain of the antenna and the power
output -- the ERP. But, I have to agree, regardless of the antenna gain, if
you drop the power level by 50%, most users will never be able to tell.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PA question


 But we make such a big deal out of having a 7.5 DB antenna rather than a
3.5
 DB antenna, and that's only 4.5 DB... :-)


 73,
 Chris, KG0BP









 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Help ID'ing PA's - Motorola

2004-07-14 Thread nj902
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
...My MICOR books don't show a TLE1693 or 1694...

...My MSF5000 manual does not list a TTE1552A...

__
__

The TLE1693 and 1694 20 Watt UHF PA's are found in 6880125E60

The TTE1552 is found in 6881082E10.  

It is rated at 15 Watts from 435 to 475 MHz and has a triple
circulator.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing PA's - Motorola

2004-07-14 Thread Eric Lemmon
Rod,

My MICOR books don't show a TLE1693 or 1694, but the TLD1693A is rated
at 100 watts continuous duty for 150.8-162 MHz.  The A suffix indicates
an early version, since the TLD1693E was current in 1978.

The TLD1694A is also 100 watts continuous duty, but for 162-174 MHz. 
Ditto for the suffix.

Now, for the last PA, I wonder if the model number is correct.  My
MSF5000 manual does not list a TTE1552A, but it does list a TTE1522A. 
The TLE1522A is a 40 watt continuous duty PA for 435-475 MHz.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

njcabletek wrote:
 
 Ive got a few PA's Im wondering if someone can help me identify.
 
 TLE1694A - from a Micor base station.
 
 TLE1693A - also a Micor base.
 
 TTE1552A - from a 5000
 
 Anyone off hand know the specs of these?
 
 Thanking those in advance,
 
 Rod
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing PA's - Motorola

2004-07-14 Thread Neil McKie

  Psst, hey Eric, he said TLE models ... 

  Neil 

Eric Lemmon wrote:
 
 Rod,
 
 My MICOR books don't show a TLE1693 or 1694, but the TLD1693A is rated
 at 100 watts continuous duty for 150.8-162 MHz.  The A suffix indicates
 an early version, since the TLD1693E was current in 1978.
 
 The TLD1694A is also 100 watts continuous duty, but for 162-174 MHz.
 Ditto for the suffix.
 
 Now, for the last PA, I wonder if the model number is correct.  My
 MSF5000 manual does not list a TTE1552A, but it does list a TTE1522A.
 The TLE1522A is a 40 watt continuous duty PA for 435-475 MHz.
 
 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 
 njcabletek wrote:
 
  Ive got a few PA's Im wondering if someone can help me identify.
 
  TLE1694A - from a Micor base station.
 
  TLE1693A - also a Micor base.
 
  TTE1552A - from a 5000
 
  Anyone off hand know the specs of these?
 
  Thanking those in advance,
 
  Rod
 





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Monster Heatsinks

2004-07-14 Thread Tedd Doda
Hi Guys:

Anyone interested in a couple HUGE Aluminum heatsinks
from a smoked 250 watt repeater amp? Each heatsink is
20 long, 8 wide by 3.5 high and weigh about 8Kg
(~17 pounds). If you need pictures, let me know. My
USB ports died, so I can't transfer the pictures from
my camera to the computercouple days before the 
pictures are available.

I also have a couple 88 split (450 to 470) Mastr Exec II
mobiles that I'm parting out. Let me know what you need.

I'll only ask once, then they go to Ebay.

PLEASE reply off list.



Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada





 
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