Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better

[Mathew Quaife]

Well as far as coverage goes, I would put the antenna on the side of the
tower that is going to be covering the largest part of the county.  Then we
are planning on putting in three remote bases to cover the county.



>
> Side mounting is going to be much better mechanically, assuming you
bracket
> at the top of the antenna as well.
>
> If you can afford to give up coverage to the back of the tower, this is
not
> a bad choice.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "w9mwq" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 5:32 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better
>
>
> >
> >
> > Just want to get some input on what users think.  I have the option
> > to mount a DB224 on the top of a tower or side mounted at the top,
> > which would be best, in regards to noise verses stability, etc.
> >
> > Mathew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better

[Doug Zastrow]

Mathew,
 
I've had experience both ways. Top mount 
in the absolute clear and side mount 19" away on guyed tower 
with 36" face.
 
Top mount was super for omni-directional coverage but the 
absolute pits for lighting requiring isolating the repeater cabinet from the 
floor and bringing everything in through a ground window equipped with 
PolyPhaser coax/Heliax surge suppressors for the transmission lines and 
protection for phone and AC power.
 
Side mount was lightning protection heaven but lopsided 
coverage.
 
Doug

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  w9mwq 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 4:32 
  PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 
  Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better
  Just want to get some 
  input on what users think.  I have the option to mount a DB224 on the 
  top of a tower or side mounted at the top, which would be best, in regards 
  to noise verses stability, 
etc.Mathew













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[Repeater-Builder] Filters on Receive Side, how do I know if they are working

[w9mwq]

Everyone remembers my problems I had with a neighbor about 26 miles 
away getting into my repeater on the input with his 9Khz wide 
transmitter, which the GE MASTR receiver took care of that, but I 
just installed a ARR preamp, and he is back, and I think I tuned 
them correctly, the DB-4001-2 Filters.  Antenna is up at 90' and can 
be accessed about 25 miles away with a Handi-Talki using a rubber 
duck.  So the receive is good, but to good.  And I know the problems 
with preamps, but was hoping the filters would prevent that.  Any 
thoughts.  I am getting no decense on the receiver that I can 
detect, and that is with the two hundred watt pa running.  Any ideas 
other than removing the preamp back out of line, and yes I am 
planning a letter to the Ham causing interference.

Mathew








 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better

[Chuck Kelsey]

Side mounting is going to be much better mechanically, assuming you bracket 
at the top of the antenna as well.

If you can afford to give up coverage to the back of the tower, this is not 
a bad choice.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "w9mwq" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better


>
>
> Just want to get some input on what users think.  I have the option
> to mount a DB224 on the top of a tower or side mounted at the top,
> which would be best, in regards to noise verses stability, etc.
>
> Mathew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 






 
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[Repeater-Builder] DB224 Mounting On Top or Side Which is Better

[w9mwq]

Just want to get some input on what users think.  I have the option 
to mount a DB224 on the top of a tower or side mounted at the top, 
which would be best, in regards to noise verses stability, etc.

Mathew








 
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[Repeater-Builder] stuff on greedbay (uhf isolator / harmonic filter)

[doug]

just fyi - i have one UHF isolator (with loads) and on DB harmonic filter 
on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3864919799&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT


and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43010&item=3864921070&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


if you are interested, let me know.  i have two of each item and i am open 
to off-ebay sales of the second pair of components.



doug






 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: F.S. List

[John Everson]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "skipp025" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> John, 
> 
> Yahoo chops Email domains off the post. 
> 
> Please Email your full address to me. 
> 
> thank you 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> skipp025 at yahoo.com  
> 
> >  "John Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Enough bandwith for now. Make a reasonable offer on any or all. 
> > Please contact me off list.
> > 
> > Thanks to all. John   AB6LI

Hi Skipp. The addy here is  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Drop me a line.73 de John







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] forest service

[dave_novotny]

Pat,
Our group has a Special Use Permit to operate a communications facility on USFS 
property.  If you are really interested in doing this, I suggest you contact 
the Forest Service ranger district that is in charge of your desired area.  
When you call, ask to speak to the person in charge of communications special 
use permits.  This person will be able to tell you everything you need to do.

Now, some hints.  The Forest Service wants to minimize the number of new sites 
that are developed.  I suggest you look at established communications sites.  
If none are in the area you want to go on, be prepared to do a lot of work.  
Again, your FS representative can help and guide you.

Best of luck
Dave

Dave Novotny, WA6IFI
Chairman
Cheyenne Mountain Repeater Group, Inc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
www.qsl.net/cmrg 

-Original Message-
From: greenfin2002 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 9:10 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] forest service




 anyone have any experience when it comes to obtaining a site or 
leasing a communications site from the forest service? just 
wondering what to expect.

thanks, pat 







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Uniden and Milcom - Cresend 220 rf pa

[skipp025]

re: Uniden and Milcom - Cresend 220 Mhz PA

There are at least two versions of the Milcom 220 
Mhz PA. One is an almost plug and play onto the 
224 Amateur Band. The Uniden ARX2125 pa is a same 
basic layout unit, but a bit of pain to convert 
up to 224Mhz. Some amateurs have been running them 
at reduced ratings.  Here's a few pics of n2ckh's 
effort. 

http://www.n2ckh.com/125m_rptr.htm 

BK-Relm was selling NOS Uniden PA's for about 
$150 each, a real deal if you can convert it 
up to the amateur band. (or operate it at 
reduced ratings). 

Milcom - Cresend doesn't have a manual for the 
PA. I've been looking for one for some time. 
These units were used in the semi dead 220 
ACSB trunking systems. 

A properly converted pa will do at least 150 plus 
watts.  They are semi supply voltage dependent, 
power drops off fast below 26 volts. 

When they're done right, they are a quite nice 
power amplifier.

cheers,
skipp 
www.radiowrench.com/sonic 
skipp025 at yahoo.com 

> "John Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to the group.
> I have been cleaning out the garage. Here is a 
> list of stuff that needs to go.
 [snip]
>  A Uniden (made by Milcom) 100 watt 220 Mhz Linear Amp. Made to run 
> on 28 volts. It uses Polyfets for RF devices. It has these really 
> cool power combiner/splitters inside that I was going to use to
make 
> a 4x1 SAV 15 RF Module Repeater amp for 220 . I was going to gut
the 
> RF Gain UHF amp to put it on ;-). No time.
> Thanks to all. John   AB6LI







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: F.S. List

[skipp025]

John, 

Yahoo chops Email domains off the post. 

Please Email your full address to me. 

thank you 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
skipp025 at yahoo.com  

>  "John Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Enough bandwith for now. Make a reasonable offer on any or all. 
> Please contact me off list.
> 
> Thanks to all. John   AB6LI







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[John Everson]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> It's kind of like which is better - a Ford or a Chevy (I don't like 
either). 
> Point being, what you've had good luck with you'll stick with and 
swear by.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't install a fiberglass collinear antenna for a 
repeater 
> if it was free. Yet there are others who would likely say the same 
thing of 
> the folded dipole arrays (my favorite). I do use a Comet dual band 
> fiberglass antenna at home, but it is installed safely inside my 
attic.
> 
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
> 
> 
I gotta go with Chuck on this one. Make mine a Dipole Array. 

My two cents. 73 de John







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Paul Finch]

Chuck,
 
You 
are correct, you use what you like the best.  I use the DB-224/410 antennas 
because I have never seen one turned into expensive toothpicks unlike my 
lightning experience with fiberglass antennas.  I was the field engineering 
manager for a nationwide paging company, I knew before that not to use 
fiberglass antennas except where we had to.  Do I have fiberglass antennas 
on my 500 foot tower?  Yes but only on 800 and 900 MHz equipment and all of 
them are "sort of" protected on top of my tower because the DB antennas are so 
much taller.
 
Paul
 

  -Original Message-From: Chuck Kelsey 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 1:46 
  PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: 
  [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & 
  Noise
  It's kind of like which is better - a Ford or a 
  Chevy (I don't like either). Point being, what you've had good luck with 
  you'll stick with and swear by.
   
  Personally, I wouldn't install a fiberglass 
  collinear antenna for a repeater if it was free. Yet there are others who 
  would likely say the same thing of the folded dipole arrays (my favorite). I 
  do use a Comet dual band fiberglass antenna at home, but it is installed 
  safely inside my attic.
   
  Chuck
  WB2EDV
   
   
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Paul 
Finch 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:27 
AM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

Doug,
 
For two meter operation a DB-224 in the only way to go but please 
read my privious post about fixing new antennas before installing 
them.
 
Paul
 

  -Original Message-From: Doug Zastrow 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 
  5:48 PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: 
  [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & 
  Noise
  Russ brought up the point that some techs really shy 
  away from the DB-224 because of the potential noise problem.  I've 
  been scared of the fiberglass collinears because of the element solder 
  joint crack issue and it's resultant noise problems.
   
  What's the commercial 'antenna of choice' for two-meter 
  repeater operation here at Repeater-Builder?
   
  One more tid bit of information.  Our noise began 
  when the tower was shortened from 440' to 360'.  And a tower crew 
  left a steel winch line tied off for several weeks very near our 
  DB-224.  That hints towards possible element damage or structural 
  (i.e. loose / disturbed hardware) problems.
   
  ---  And a huge thanks for all of the 
  excellent observations and advice to date!
   
  Doug













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[Repeater-Builder] Ericsson C719

[John J. Riddell]

Does anyone have info on the Ericcson C719 radio 
using the mobitex format for 
Data transmission. I'm looking for the interface 
cable / info on that cable
 
 
This is a late 80's type of unit.
 
 
 
John J. Riddell,  VE3AMZ451 Cedarcliffe 
Dr.,Waterloo, Ontario, CanadaN2K 2J1













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Chuck Kelsey]

Got my words mixed up should have been  "I had to buy a new one for the guy I borrowed it from 
and still had to come up with an antenna for the repeater it was 
being used on."
 
Chuck
WB2EDV

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Chuck Kelsey 
  
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:10 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
  Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise
  
  Yes, they have rod/coil construction. I 
  know from taking one apart that didn't last only months before lightning 
  destroyed it. 
   
  That was a painful experience since it 
  was a borrowed antenna. I had to buy a new one for the guy I borrowed it from 
  and still had to come up with an antenna for the repeater it was 
  being been on.
   
  Chuck
  WB2EDV
   
   
  
   
  I have had excellent long-term luck with the Sinclair SRL-229.  It's 
  a large aperture (23+ foot) fiberglass radomed stick, but is not built like 
  the stationmaster with opposing sections of large (copper water pipe) 
  coax.  I have had experience with several that have been up for 20+ years 
  without failure in the duplex mode.  I don't know how they are made 
  internally because I have never had to take one apart.  A Sinclair 
  Engineer told me they were not made like their competition, and might possibly 
  be solid rod with phasing coils between them.Any fiberglass radomed 
  antenna will suffer greatly from Corona and Precipitation Static, especially 
  when top mounted.  This was a big deal until the Static Buster was 
  developed, tested, and proven to nearly eliminate the problem.Kevin 
  Custer













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Chuck Kelsey]

Yes, they have rod/coil construction. I 
know from taking one apart that didn't last only months before lightning 
destroyed it. 
 
That was a painful experience since it was 
a borrowed antenna. I had to buy a new one for the guy I borrowed it from and 
still had to come up with an antenna for the repeater it was 
being been on.
 
Chuck
WB2EDV
 
 

 
I have had excellent long-term luck with the Sinclair SRL-229.  It's a 
large aperture (23+ foot) fiberglass radomed stick, but is not built like the 
stationmaster with opposing sections of large (copper water pipe) coax.  I 
have had experience with several that have been up for 20+ years without failure 
in the duplex mode.  I don't know how they are made internally because I 
have never had to take one apart.  A Sinclair Engineer told me they were 
not made like their competition, and might possibly be solid rod with phasing 
coils between them.Any fiberglass radomed antenna will suffer greatly 
from Corona and Precipitation Static, especially when top mounted.  This 
was a big deal until the Static Buster was developed, tested, and proven to 
nearly eliminate the problem.Kevin 
Custer













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Chuck Kelsey]

Scott, keep us posted as to the results. I know exactly of the problem, 
living inland from Lake Erie by only a few miles.
 
Chuck
WB2EDV

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 1:41 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
  Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise
  
  Hello Kevin !
  You hit the nail right on the head when you speak of precipitation 
  noise.
  Our Lancaster ARC machine is just East of Buffalo and Lake Erie and I am 
  sure everyone
  out there Knows what kind of weather we experience here in Western New 
  York!
  We have been going crazy trying to figure out what the problem was with 
  the antenna system-We have the same Sinclair antenna that you are using.
  Needless to say,I will be contacting you soon to order a staticbuster for 
  our club machine!
  Thanks again for the Info and a great website!
   
  Scott KB2TRQ













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Chuck Kelsey]

It's kind of like which is better - a Ford or a 
Chevy (I don't like either). Point being, what you've had good luck with you'll 
stick with and swear by.
 
Personally, I wouldn't install a fiberglass 
collinear antenna for a repeater if it was free. Yet there are others who 
would likely say the same thing of the folded dipole arrays (my favorite). I do 
use a Comet dual band fiberglass antenna at home, but it is installed safely 
inside my attic.
 
Chuck
WB2EDV
 
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Paul Finch 
  
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:27 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
  Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise
  
  Doug,
   
  For 
  two meter operation a DB-224 in the only way to go but please read my privious 
  post about fixing new antennas before installing them.
   
  Paul
   
  
-Original Message-From: Doug Zastrow 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:48 
PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: 
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & 
Noise
Russ brought up the point that some techs really shy away 
from the DB-224 because of the potential noise problem.  I've been 
scared of the fiberglass collinears because of the element solder joint 
crack issue and it's resultant noise problems.
 
What's the commercial 'antenna of choice' for two-meter 
repeater operation here at Repeater-Builder?
 
One more tid bit of information.  Our noise began 
when the tower was shortened from 440' to 360'.  And a tower crew left 
a steel winch line tied off for several weeks very near our DB-224.  
That hints towards possible element damage or structural (i.e. loose / 
disturbed hardware) problems.
 
---  And a huge thanks for all of the 
excellent observations and advice to date!
 
Doug













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[Repeater-Builder] F.S. List

[John Everson]

Hello to the group.
I have been cleaning out the garage. Here is a list of stuff that 
needs to go.

I have the following manuals:
1. 1 Mastr Progress Line UHF Manual includes LBI 4000, LBI 3999, LBI 
3529G, 3853C, These are for the TX, RX, Repeater Panel, and the power 
supply.

2. 1 Mastr Prog. Line Royal Executive UHF Mobile Manual LBI 3910B

3. 2 Mastr Prog. Line Professional Series 25-50 Mhz Mobile LBI 3627. 
This includes other LBI's within the manual  (the cover is a bit 
ratty on one manual)

4. 1 Mastr Prog. Line Executive Series Manual 132-174 Mhz Mobile LBI 
3712C

5. 1 Mastr Prog Line UHF Manual LBI 3617B and LBI 3622 Covers the TX, 
RX and PA. These are a bit ratty but fully useable.

6. 1 GE Marc V 806-870 Manual LBI 30839A Complete.

7. 1 RCA Series 700 VHF 150 Mhz Band Manual Appears to be complete. 
Cover is missing and outer pages are worn but in very useable shape.

8. 1 RCA Series 500 UHF 450 Mhz Repeater Manual Complete Cover and 
front/rear pages a bit gritty but fully useable.

9. 1 RCA ML 1000 TX RX Unit Manual with interconnect diagram. A bit 
worn, fully useable.

10. 1 RCA Series 1000 50 Mhz Manual with Series 500 Super Carfone 
50Mhz Manual included.

11. 1 RCA Series 500 Super Carfone VHF 150-174. Separate manuals in 
RCA folder. Worn but fully useable.

12. 1 Motorola Motrac 25-54 Megacycle This manual is near new, 
printed in 1964. This make me want to go watch Dragnet reruns.

13. 1 Motorola Mocom 35 UHF 10 watt. Reprint from 1983.

14. 1 Motorola Consolette Base Station UHF Manual

15. I have a binder with what appears to be the guts of a 
Motrac/Motran manual for VHF. appears to be complete, I am not going 
to take the time to collate the thing.

Other stuff:

  220 Mhz notch cavities. 3" square, single N conn. on each, 2 pairs 
of 2. Silver plated.

 RF Gain RF 445U Repeater amp, 4 in 45 out 1 device driving a 
second. --- It's Dead, I was going to fix it, no time. It worked when 
I bought it. 

 Clean UHF 450-470 75 watt Mitrek Mobiles. No accs.

 Clean GE Mastr II VHF 40 watt drawer units. No accs.

 A Uniden (made by Milcom) 100 watt 220 Mhz Linear Amp. Made to run 
on 28 volts. It uses Polyfets for RF devices. It has these really 
cool power combiner/splitters inside that I was going to use to make 
a 4x1 SAV 15 RF Module Repeater amp for 220 . I was going to gut the 
RF Gain UHF amp to put it on ;-). No time.

Enough bandwith for now. Make a reasonable offer on any or all. 
Please contact me off list.

Thanks to all. John   AB6LI

 







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[KB2TRQ]

Hello Kevin !
You hit the nail right on the head when you speak of precipitation noise.
Our Lancaster ARC machine is just East of Buffalo and Lake Erie and I am sure everyone
out there Knows what kind of weather we experience here in Western New York!
We have been going crazy trying to figure out what the problem was with the antenna system-We have the same Sinclair antenna that you are using.
Needless to say,I will be contacting you soon to order a staticbuster for our club machine!
Thanks again for the Info and a great website!
 
Scott KB2TRQ













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[Repeater-Builder] Re: question on repeater set up...

[Mr John Lloyd]

Message: 12
Ed,

You need to contact APCO to get the coordinator for
Fire Frequencies.

http://www.apcointl.org/frequency/

Thanks,

John Lloyd, K7JL
Utah VHF Society Frequency Coordinator


   Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 04:15:40 -0800 (PST)
   From: Ed Lemley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: question on repeater set up...

Thanks for the responses.  I am a ham, but this
repeater will be for 
the fire dept.  We are needing a repeater because a
simlex channel just 
doesn't work that well anymore.  And I don't know who
the local 
coordinator is, how could I find out who it is?  And I
have looked for possible 
frequencies, but the FCC site has been down for the
last few days now.  
Thanks
Ed



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Re: [Repeater-Builder] AFC in a Micor Mobile repeater conversion.

[Neil McKie]

  Agreed!! 

  Been there - done that!  

  Tried it once with the AFC still usable.  Better if the AFC 
 isn't used. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 

Kevin Custer wrote:
> 
> You shouldn't use AFC in a Micor MOBILE repeater conversion.  WHY? 
> The off frequency user will pull the repeater transmitter off 
> frequency as well:
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Neil McKie wrote:
> 
> >  Just short out the AFC buss.  Simple huh?
> >
> >  If you want to continue to use the AFC, be sure if you have to
> > use high side injection, you need to reverse the discriminator 
> > diodes.  Be very vareful the diodes are very fragile. 
> >
> >Wade Lake wrote:
> >
> >
> >>  The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the
> >>AFC type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as
> >>outlined in the manual to the letter.
> >>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] DC grounded antennas - ?

[bradley glen]

J-poles are not antennas of a given impedance-try
placing the arrestor in line with a dc-grounded folded
dipole and there should be no difference seen on a
standard Vswr metre.
Brad

--- Benjamin Naber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> afternoon ya'll
> 
>   Done a little bit of reading and playing around,
> what is an advantage and disadvantage of using DC
> gounded antennas?
> 
>   One thing I am curious about is why when a
> lightning
> arrestor is used with a DC grounded antenna, does
> the
> SWR go up? A while back I installed a lightning
> arrestor in line with my j-pole and the SWR went WAY
> up - something like a 3 or 4. Just recently I
> installed a 5/4 wave shorted stub and the same
> thing.
> In either case, why would the SWR go up?
> 
> ~Ben, KB9LFZ
> 
> =
> -
> ~Ben, KB9LFZ  
>  
> Got your radio on and "listening?" 
> Then KEY the radio and say that you are! LET US USE
> WHAT WE HAVE!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> __ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced
> search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 




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[Repeater-Builder] Converting a Pass filter

[wa9ba]

I was wondering if anyone has had any luck converting a TX RX 74-70 
Pass filter to a Reject? I tryed looking in the archives but is so 
time consuming.
Bill







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] AFC in a Micor Mobile repeater conversion.

[Kevin Custer]

You shouldn't use AFC in a Micor MOBILE repeater conversion.  WHY?  The 
off frequency user will pull the repeater transmitter off frequency as well:


Kevin

Neil McKie wrote:

>  Just short out the AFC buss.  Simple huh? 
>
>  If you want to continue to use the AFC, be sure if you have to use 
> high side injection, you need to reverse the discriminator diodes.  
> Be very vareful the diodes are very fragile. 
>
>Wade Lake wrote:
>  
>
>>  The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the 
>>AFC type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as 
>>outlined in the manual to the letter.
>>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: "Old-Guys"

[k1eg]

ROFLMAO

Mike
K1EG
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: "Old-Guys"


> 
> Some of us take offense to being called old farts.  We
> prefer "Age challenged flatulants" the politically
> correct termonology for the 21st century.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> --- Mark Holman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  once was some group called  O.F.A.R.T.S. I think it
> > was a ham club seen them usually at the Marshall,
> > MI. hamfest.
> > M. H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SINAD measurements

[Kevin Custer]

I have to Strongly disagree. 

Scott and I have tuned literally hundreds of receivers, and while we can 
hit the mark nearly every time when listening to quieting, there are 
other factors to consider.
The ear is an excellent device for listening to quieting and comparing 
that to a know standard; I can usually hit that within a few tenths of a 
dB. However, the ear is a terrible device for detecting distortion at 
weak signal levels, and that's where a calibrated test device is a 
must.  Anyone who has done distortion measurements on a receiver at the 
12 dB SINAD level will assure you the ear has difficulty hearing the 
difference in several dB of distortion.

Better technicians realize the need for the least distortion in radio 
systems.  This alone dictates the use of a SINAD meter as you are not 
only going for best quieting, but are also going for the least amount of 
distortion.  Remember, the AD at the end of SINAD means "And Distortion". 

ANY technician would be damn hard pressed to properly align a GE Mastr 
II I-F for least distortion by their ear alone.

Kevin Custer

Wade Lake wrote:

> The Motorola shop I worked in had a Sinadder in the cabinet with about
>an inch of dust on it.  All of us Techs used it when we first started until
>we realized that after tuning 3 or 4 receivers a day for several weeks, it
>wasnt hard at all to do it by ear.
>
>Wade - KR7K
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Kevin Custer]

Doug Zastrow wrote:

  
  
  
  Russ brought up the point that some techs really
shy away from the DB-224 because of the potential noise problem.  I've
been scared of the fiberglass collinears because of the element solder
joint crack issue and it's resultant noise problems.
   
  What's the commercial 'antenna of choice' for
two-meter repeater operation here at Repeater-Builder?


I have had excellent long-term luck with the Sinclair SRL-229.  It's a
large aperture (23+ foot) fiberglass radomed stick, but is not built
like the stationmaster with opposing sections of large (copper water
pipe) coax.  I have had experience with several that have been up for
20+ years without failure in the duplex mode.  I don't know how they
are made internally because I have never had to take one apart.  A
Sinclair Engineer told me they were not made like their competition,
and might possibly be solid rod with phasing coils between them.

Any fiberglass radomed antenna will suffer greatly from Corona and
Precipitation Static, especially when top mounted.  This was a big deal
until the Static Buster was developed, tested, and proven to nearly
eliminate the problem.


Kevin Custer














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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Paul Finch]

Doug,
 
For 
two meter operation a DB-224 in the only way to go but please read my privious 
post about fixing new antennas before installing them.
 
Paul
 

  -Original Message-From: Doug Zastrow 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:48 
  PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: 
  [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & 
  Noise
  Russ brought up the point that some techs really shy away 
  from the DB-224 because of the potential noise problem.  I've been scared 
  of the fiberglass collinears because of the element solder joint crack issue 
  and it's resultant noise problems.
   
  What's the commercial 'antenna of choice' for two-meter 
  repeater operation here at Repeater-Builder?
   
  One more tid bit of information.  Our noise began when 
  the tower was shortened from 440' to 360'.  And a tower crew left a steel 
  winch line tied off for several weeks very near our DB-224.  That hints 
  towards possible element damage or structural (i.e. loose / disturbed 
  hardware) problems.
   
  ---  And a huge thanks for all of the 
  excellent observations and advice to date!
   
  Doug
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
highlandfl 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:34 
PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel 
Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise
There is another possibility 
that I have run into with my Decible Products Antennas of the DB-224 
type:  If the elements of the antenna are not welded to the metal 
suport on one end, corrosion can occur and movement can be 
experienced.  If the DB-224 antenna you are using is not "welded" 
but is simply a physical contact between the non insulated end of the 
element, it is not a good antenna for repeater use for the very reasons 
that others have pointed out - loose connections in the field of the 
antenna.When you make the inspection of your antenna determine if 
your antenna has the conductive end of each element welded to the 
standoff or just a physical connection. I wish I had a picture I 
could attach to show you what I am talking about. I hope my 
explaination is clear.I have been cautioned many times by the 
local technicians that work on these all the time about the use of 
Decible Products DB0224 (and other models for other bands) antennas in 
repeater use.I do not have a Decible Products DB type antenna on my 
repeaters. I have three to put up. They will all be modified before 
installation to make sure that the physical connection of the elements 
are welded when they are not supposed to be insulated from the 
supports.This discussion has been very good reading. Thank everyone 
for their contributions to this thread.My fiberglass antenna 
(yes singular - one triband antenna for all three repeaters) was broken 
in Hurricane Frances this year. When it broke, crackling was very 
pronounced when there was an input signal and the system was repeating. 
It would go away on the squelch tail and when the repeater 
identification was transmitted.  when the wind subsided a few 
moments the crackle decreased. When the wind picked up, the crackle 
picked up.  Inspection of the antenna from the ground with field 
glasses found it to be bent over at 90 degrees and hung up under the 
support of a nearby Microwave dish.Replacement of the antenna 
between hurricanes was required, but, when replaced, no crackle since 
Hurricane Frances during hurricanes Ivan, Jeanne or Karl (4 between 
August 25 and September 24 is too many and I hope that is the last of 
that schedule!)RussN4KOX145.11 MSR 2000 reapter444.700 
MSR 2000 repeater53.21 Micor Repeater--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin 
Custer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]...> wrote:> Please 
read this:> > > Kevin> > > > There is 
only crackle when receiving a signal, never on the repeater 
tail.> >  > > Might help to mention that I can 
listen directly to the receiver audio > > at the repeater and 
hear the following:> >  > > Receiver weak signal - 
Xmtr turned on - Crackle> > Receiver weak signal - Xmtr turned off 
- No crackle> > Receiver no signal (squelched) - Xmtr turned on - 
No crackle> > Receiver no signal (squelched) - Xmtr turned off - 
No crackle













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Chris Peterson]

AFC is disabled per the UHF mobile conversion instructions on
repeater-builder.

We just need to take the time to do a full tune-up again.  I remember it
being quite touchy the first time.  I wondered if it was to touchy and
that's why it's so far off now.

Is it normal for a receiver to loose so much in 2 years?

Thanks,
Chris



- Original Message -
From: "Neil McKie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update


>
>
>   Just short out the AFC buss.  Simple huh?
>
>   If you want to continue to use the AFC, be sure if you have to use
>  high side injection, you need to reverse the discriminator diodes.
>  Be very vareful the diodes are very fragile.
>
> Wade Lake wrote:
> >
> >   The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the
> > AFC type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as
> > outlined in the manual to the letter.
>
>   Exactly to the letter.  No short cuts ... or you'll be sorry and
>  need to start again.
>
>   Hope this helps,
>
>   Neil - WA6KLA
>
>
> >
> >  Also, I am not sure what isolation measures you have already taken
> > but they would have to be fairly extensive for pairs that close in
> > frequency to coexist happily at the same site, in order to work
> > properly.  I would suggest all 100% sheided cables - preferably
> > Heliax, Pass/reject type duplexers on both systems, and at least 1
> > extra high quality pass cavity on both transmitters.  This is just
> > for starters.  Each site is configured differently so there may be
> > several other measures to take.  Good earth grounds to all
> > components of the system and extra sheilding for mobile radios used
> > in a full duplex environment are 2 other necessary things to do.
> >
> >  It sounds like you have quite the system, and you are probably
> > aware of the suggestions I am making here but sometimes the obvious
> > things are the easiest to forget.  Sounds like your getting there.
> >
> > Best of luck to you and 73,
> >
> > Wade - KR7K
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
> >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > A couple months ago I posted a question about in-band linking.  I
thought
> > > I'd post an update on how it seems to be working.
> > >
> > > The repeater is on 442.750+ running about 25 watts.  It's a converted
> > Micor
> > > mobile.
> > >
> > > The remote base listens on 443.025 and transmits about 25 watts on
> > 448.025.
> > > The repeater it's talking to is about 90 miles away over a very good
path.
> > > The remote base is an Icom 900 module attached to an FC-900.
> > >
> > > The repeater shows no obvious desense, and the signal strength of the
link
> > > is full-quieting.  There is one odity, though.  The link seems to have
> > some
> > > sort of high-pitched, low--amplitude, squeel on it.  I assume this is
some
> > > spur from the repeater's transmitter.  We plan to try to notch that
out
> > when
> > > we get a chance.
> > >
> > > There is one odity, though.  The Micor has been in service for about 2
> > years
> > > now.  When we first set it up, the receiver sensativity was about .35
UV.
> > > Now, we can't get it to come below about .7UV.  I should point out
that we
> > > didn't do the full tuning procedure, we just tried to tweak things
back
> > into
> > > place.  Also, the Micor has not been checked since it was put in
service 2
> > > years ago...  That is, it hasn't been checked until it was moved
> > yesterday.
> > >
> > > My question is, is there anything that commonly goes bad in these
things
> > > that might cause this?  We have plenty of spare receivers around, so
> > that's
> > > not an issue, I was just curious if anyone had any ideas of things to
> > check.
> > >
> > > Also, does anyone have any simplified tuning instructions for the UHF
> > Micor
> > > mobile or any tips that might make the procedure go more smoothly?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris, KG0BP
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[JOHN MACKEY]

Just curious, what tri-band antenna are you referring to here?

-- Original Message --

>   My fiberglass antenna (yes singular - one triband antenna for all 
>   three repeaters) was broken in Hurricane Frances this year. When it 
>   broke, crackling was very pronounced when there was an input signal 
>   and the system was repeating. It would go away on the squelch tail 
>   and when the repeater identification was transmitted.  
>   when the wind subsided a few moments the crackle decreased. When the 
>   wind picked up, the crackle picked up.  Inspection of the antenna 
>   from the ground with field glasses found it to be bent over at 90 
>   degrees and hung up under the support of a nearby Microwave dish.
> 
>   Replacement of the antenna between hurricanes was required, but, 
>   when replaced, no crackle since Hurricane Frances during hurricanes 
>   Ivan, Jeanne or Karl (4 between August 25 and September 24 is too 
>   many and I hope that is the last of that schedule!)
> 
>   Russ
>   N4KOX
>   145.11 MSR 2000 reapter
>   444.700 MSR 2000 repeater
>   53.21 Micor Repeater






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: "Old-Guys"

[Joe]

Some of us take offense to being called old farts.  We
prefer "Age challenged flatulants" the politically
correct termonology for the 21st century.

Joe



--- Mark Holman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  once was some group called  O.F.A.R.T.S. I think it
> was a ham club seen them usually at the Marshall,
> MI. hamfest.
> M. H.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: "Old-Guys"

[Neil McKie]

  Is that better than being vertically challenged? 

  Neil 


Joe wrote:
> 
> Some of us take offense to being called old farts.  We
> prefer "Age challenged flatulants" the politically
> correct termonology for the 21st century.
> 
> Joe
> 
> --- Mark Holman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  once was some group called  O.F.A.R.T.S. I think it
> > was a ham club seen them usually at the Marshall,
> > MI. hamfest.
> > M. H.
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe

[Mark Holman]

 Aw  come on the party is still fun !

 but if you really have to drop out read the instructions below 
.
M. H.

- Original Message - 
From: "Neil McKie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe


>
>
>  I don't think so either ...
>
>  Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> link , BUT !!! says the windows message Are you really absolutely sure you 
> want
 
  to UNSUBSCRIBE ?   Yes 
or No ??Bye !!
 
   Mark Holman AB8RU says 73 !!
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Doug Zastrow]

Yes, it is guyed at about six levels (from memory).  The 
uppermost three sets of guys were replaced but I do not believe they added 
straps around the turnbuckles.  I'll take a peek today.  Our antenna 
is in the new guy zone.
 
A side note...  I'm a ten minute drive from my site and 
can pull up to the front of the shack door.  Any hill in Nebraska over a 
hundred feet is a 'mountain'!  Compared to some of you who have to drive 
for hours, hike or even helicopter in, I've got it made...
 
Doug

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Joe 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:37 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
  Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise
  Is this a guyed 
  tower?  If so, did they retension theguy wires after the tower was 
  shortened?  Did theystrap around the turnbuckles? (Not just the 
  safetywire to stop the turnbuckle from loosening, but aground strap.) 
  If they did not, a quick test would beto use a set of auto jumper cables 
  and strap aroundthe turnbuckle and see if the noise subsides.  If 
  youfind this fixes the noise, don't add your own groundjumpers!  
  Contact the tower owner and have it doneproperly.  I have seen clamps 
  put on guy wires toeliminate noise that structurally damaged the 
  guywire.  It has to be done properly.I think your idea of the 
  winch line damaging theantenna is a good one to 
  investigate.Joe--- Doug Zastrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> One more 
  tid bit of information.  Our noise began> when the tower was 
  shortened from 440' to 360'.  And> a tower crew left a steel winch 
  line tied off for> several weeks very near our 
  DB-224. Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To 
  visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email 
  to:    [EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject 
  to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Joe]

Is this a guyed tower?  If so, did they retension the
guy wires after the tower was shortened?  Did they
strap around the turnbuckles? (Not just the safety
wire to stop the turnbuckle from loosening, but a
ground strap.) If they did not, a quick test would be
to use a set of auto jumper cables and strap around
the turnbuckle and see if the noise subsides.  If you
find this fixes the noise, don't add your own ground
jumpers!  Contact the tower owner and have it done
properly.  I have seen clamps put on guy wires to
eliminate noise that structurally damaged the guy
wire.  It has to be done properly.

I think your idea of the winch line damaging the
antenna is a good one to investigate.

Joe


--- Doug Zastrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One more tid bit of information.  Our noise began
> when the tower was shortened from 440' to 360'.  And
> a tower crew left a steel winch line tied off for
> several weeks very near our DB-224.




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe

[Neil McKie]

  I don't think so either ... 

  Neil





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola microphone schematic

[Neil McKie]

  Are you seriously looking for the schematic diagram for the TU-154? 

  Neil 

Mark Holman wrote:
> 
> Say Rob.
>  Ye olde ancient stuff Motorola probably never gave the data
> on the web since it was presumed DOA .
> 
> M. H.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:31 AM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola microphone schematic
> 
> >
> >
> > Well the specific one is from a CDM750 but I think most operate in
> > the same basic manner. It isn't so much an exact schematic I need but
> > a basic operation diagram. Motorola supplies about +5V on the mic
> > line and the mic element is also connected throgh the PTT switch
> > somehow.
> > What I am trying to figure out is if I can use a mic amp to boost the
> > gain for an autopatch.
> > It is almost looking like I may have to custom build an amp out of a
> > FET or something like an other responder did.
> >
> > As to the TU-154, all I get is hits for an old Russian airliner.
> > Thanks -Rob-
> >
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Neil McKie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>   Not a problem, if you can remember which radio you had it
> >>  connected to when you installed it, I probably have the manual
> >>
> >>   Was that a FMTRU-5V ?
> >>
> >>   Neil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark Holman wrote:
> >> >
> >> > type in TU-154 for Motorola, an old remote head with a amplified
> > mic.older
> >> > than dirt 1964 I think.
> >> >
> >> > I had one or 2 my dad gave me no radio though  :-(
> >> >
> >> > M. H.
> >> >
> >> > - Original Message -
> >> > From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: 
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:15 AM
> >> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola microphone schematic
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Anyone know if the schematic for an amplified Motorola Mic is
> >> > > available on the net?
> >> > > Still trying to get this autopatch going and having some real
> > level
> >> > > issues. My patch just doesn't have enough drive for the radio.
> >> > > TIA -Rob-
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Wade Lake]

That works too...

Wade - KR7K


- Original Message - 
From: "Gerald Pelnar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update


>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Wade Lake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> >  Ok, I was not understanding that you were only half duplex on the
> > remote, I would guess that you are linking to another repeater in this
> way?
> > This totally does work, the only drawback to running this way is the
> > courtesy tone and squelch tail for the other repeater are re-broadcasted
> > through your repeater.  You probably already know this but a better
> solution
> > is to use a common link freq. for both TX and RX for the link.  This of
> > coarse would require the other repeater to have a remote radio on the
same
> > freq.
>
> We have a 444.600 repeater with a 444.850 remote base. Good seperation
> between the antennas with no problems. It's arranged so the remote
repeater
> only transmits PL when there is a carrier on it's receiver. PL decode on
the
> remote base doesn't hear id's or even squelch tail. 444.6 also only
> transmits PL when there's a carrier. Users using PL decode don't have to
> listen to ID's or tails either.
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SINAD measurements

[Neil McKie]

  Yes, it does work that way ... once you get your ear tuned to what 
 you want it to hear. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 

Wade Lake wrote:
> 
>  The Motorola shop I worked in had a Sinadder in the cabinet with 
> about an inch of dust on it.  All of us Techs used it when we first 
> started until we realized that after tuning 3 or 4 receivers a day 
> for several weeks, it wasnt hard at all to do it by ear.
> 
> Wade - KR7K
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SINAD measurements
> 
> >
> > Well, I am always amazed that I can tune a radio by
> > ear and come pretty close to the best sinad meter
> > reading.
> >
> >
> > --- skipp025 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > When it comes to metering tone distortion and
> > > piloting aircraft, one should never trust the
> > > brain.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[Doug Zastrow]

Russ brought up the point that some techs really shy away from 
the DB-224 because of the potential noise problem.  I've been scared of the 
fiberglass collinears because of the element solder joint crack issue and it's 
resultant noise problems.
 
What's the commercial 'antenna of choice' for two-meter 
repeater operation here at Repeater-Builder?
 
One more tid bit of information.  Our noise began when 
the tower was shortened from 440' to 360'.  And a tower crew left a steel 
winch line tied off for several weeks very near our DB-224.  That hints 
towards possible element damage or structural (i.e. loose / disturbed hardware) 
problems.
 
---  And a huge thanks for all of the excellent 
observations and advice to date!
 
Doug
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  highlandfl 
  
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:34 
  PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel 
  Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise
  There is another possibility 
  that I have run into with my Decible Products Antennas of the DB-224 
  type:  If the elements of the antenna are not welded to the metal 
  suport on one end, corrosion can occur and movement can be 
  experienced.  If the DB-224 antenna you are using is not "welded" but 
  is simply a physical contact between the non insulated end of the element, 
  it is not a good antenna for repeater use for the very reasons that others 
  have pointed out - loose connections in the field of the 
  antenna.When you make the inspection of your antenna determine if your 
  antenna has the conductive end of each element welded to the standoff 
  or just a physical connection. I wish I had a picture I could attach to 
  show you what I am talking about. I hope my explaination is 
  clear.I have been cautioned many times by the local technicians that 
  work on these all the time about the use of Decible Products DB0224 (and 
  other models for other bands) antennas in repeater use.I do not 
  have a Decible Products DB type antenna on my repeaters. I have three to 
  put up. They will all be modified before installation to make sure that 
  the physical connection of the elements are welded when they are not 
  supposed to be insulated from the supports.This discussion has been 
  very good reading. Thank everyone for their contributions to this 
  thread.My fiberglass antenna (yes singular - one triband antenna for 
  all three repeaters) was broken in Hurricane Frances this year. When it 
  broke, crackling was very pronounced when there was an input signal 
  and the system was repeating. It would go away on the squelch tail and 
  when the repeater identification was transmitted.  when the wind 
  subsided a few moments the crackle decreased. When the wind picked up, the 
  crackle picked up.  Inspection of the antenna from the ground with 
  field glasses found it to be bent over at 90 degrees and hung up under the 
  support of a nearby Microwave dish.Replacement of the antenna between 
  hurricanes was required, but, when replaced, no crackle since Hurricane 
  Frances during hurricanes Ivan, Jeanne or Karl (4 between August 25 and 
  September 24 is too many and I hope that is the last of that 
  schedule!)RussN4KOX145.11 MSR 2000 reapter444.700 MSR 2000 
  repeater53.21 Micor Repeater--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]...> wrote:> Please read this:> > > Kevin> > > > There is 
  only crackle when receiving a signal, never on the repeater tail.> 
  >  > > Might help to mention that I can listen directly to 
  the receiver audio > > at the repeater and hear the 
  following:> >  > > Receiver weak signal - Xmtr turned 
  on - Crackle> > Receiver weak signal - Xmtr turned off - No 
  crackle> > Receiver no signal (squelched) - Xmtr turned on - No 
  crackle> > Receiver no signal (squelched) - Xmtr turned off - No 
  crackle













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe

[Chuck Kelsey]

I don't think so.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Robert 
  Jarnutowski 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:44 
  PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 
  unsubscribe
  
  
  
  unsubscribe
  
  













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Gerald Pelnar]

- Original Message - 
From: "Wade Lake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


>  Ok, I was not understanding that you were only half duplex on the
> remote, I would guess that you are linking to another repeater in this
way?
> This totally does work, the only drawback to running this way is the
> courtesy tone and squelch tail for the other repeater are re-broadcasted
> through your repeater.  You probably already know this but a better
solution
> is to use a common link freq. for both TX and RX for the link.  This of
> coarse would require the other repeater to have a remote radio on the same
> freq.

We have a 444.600 repeater with a 444.850 remote base. Good seperation
between the antennas with no problems. It's arranged so the remote repeater
only transmits PL when there is a carrier on it's receiver. PL decode on the
remote base doesn't hear id's or even squelch tail. 444.6 also only
transmits PL when there's a carrier. Users using PL decode don't have to
listen to ID's or tails either.

Gerald





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Neil McKie]

  Just short out the AFC buss.  Simple huh? 

  If you want to continue to use the AFC, be sure if you have to use 
 high side injection, you need to reverse the discriminator diodes.  
 Be very vareful the diodes are very fragile. 

Wade Lake wrote:
> 
>   The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the 
> AFC type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as 
> outlined in the manual to the letter. 

  Exactly to the letter.  No short cuts ... or you'll be sorry and 
 need to start again. 

  Hope this helps, 
 
  Neil - WA6KLA 


> 
>  Also, I am not sure what isolation measures you have already taken 
> but they would have to be fairly extensive for pairs that close in 
> frequency to coexist happily at the same site, in order to work 
> properly.  I would suggest all 100% sheided cables - preferably 
> Heliax, Pass/reject type duplexers on both systems, and at least 1 
> extra high quality pass cavity on both transmitters.  This is just 
> for starters.  Each site is configured differently so there may be 
> several other measures to take.  Good earth grounds to all 
> components of the system and extra sheilding for mobile radios used 
> in a full duplex environment are 2 other necessary things to do.
> 
>  It sounds like you have quite the system, and you are probably 
> aware of the suggestions I am making here but sometimes the obvious 
> things are the easiest to forget.  Sounds like your getting there.
> 
> Best of luck to you and 73,
> 
> Wade - KR7K
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
> 
> >
> > All,
> >
> > A couple months ago I posted a question about in-band linking.  I thought
> > I'd post an update on how it seems to be working.
> >
> > The repeater is on 442.750+ running about 25 watts.  It's a converted
> Micor
> > mobile.
> >
> > The remote base listens on 443.025 and transmits about 25 watts on
> 448.025.
> > The repeater it's talking to is about 90 miles away over a very good path.
> > The remote base is an Icom 900 module attached to an FC-900.
> >
> > The repeater shows no obvious desense, and the signal strength of the link
> > is full-quieting.  There is one odity, though.  The link seems to have
> some
> > sort of high-pitched, low--amplitude, squeel on it.  I assume this is some
> > spur from the repeater's transmitter.  We plan to try to notch that out
> when
> > we get a chance.
> >
> > There is one odity, though.  The Micor has been in service for about 2
> years
> > now.  When we first set it up, the receiver sensativity was about .35 UV.
> > Now, we can't get it to come below about .7UV.  I should point out that we
> > didn't do the full tuning procedure, we just tried to tweak things back
> into
> > place.  Also, the Micor has not been checked since it was put in service 2
> > years ago...  That is, it hasn't been checked until it was moved
> yesterday.
> >
> > My question is, is there anything that commonly goes bad in these things
> > that might cause this?  We have plenty of spare receivers around, so
> that's
> > not an issue, I was just curious if anyone had any ideas of things to
> check.
> >
> > Also, does anyone have any simplified tuning instructions for the UHF
> Micor
> > mobile or any tips that might make the procedure go more smoothly?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris, KG0BP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe

[Robert Jarnutowski]

unsubscribe















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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola microphone schematic

[Mark Holman]

Say Rob.
   Ye olde ancient stuff Motorola probably never gave the data 
on the web since it was presumed DOA .

M. H.

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola microphone schematic


>
>
> Well the specific one is from a CDM750 but I think most operate in
> the same basic manner. It isn't so much an exact schematic I need but
> a basic operation diagram. Motorola supplies about +5V on the mic
> line and the mic element is also connected throgh the PTT switch
> somehow.
> What I am trying to figure out is if I can use a mic amp to boost the
> gain for an autopatch.
> It is almost looking like I may have to custom build an amp out of a
> FET or something like an other responder did.
>
> As to the TU-154, all I get is hits for an old Russian airliner.
> Thanks -Rob-
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Neil McKie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>>   Not a problem, if you can remember which radio you had it
>>  connected to when you installed it, I probably have the manual
>>
>>   Was that a FMTRU-5V ?
>>
>>   Neil
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Holman wrote:
>> >
>> > type in TU-154 for Motorola, an old remote head with a amplified
> mic.older
>> > than dirt 1964 I think.
>> >
>> > I had one or 2 my dad gave me no radio though  :-(
>> >
>> > M. H.
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:15 AM
>> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola microphone schematic
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Anyone know if the schematic for an amplified Motorola Mic is
>> > > available on the net?
>> > > Still trying to get this autopatch going and having some real
> level
>> > > issues. My patch just doesn't have enough drive for the radio.
>> > > TIA -Rob-
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Wade Lake]

Hi Chris,

 Ok, I was not understanding that you were only half duplex on the
remote, I would guess that you are linking to another repeater in this way?
This totally does work, the only drawback to running this way is the
courtesy tone and squelch tail for the other repeater are re-broadcasted
through your repeater.  You probably already know this but a better solution
is to use a common link freq. for both TX and RX for the link.  This of
coarse would require the other repeater to have a remote radio on the same
freq.

 Maybe you do not have that option available but if you could swing it,
this makes a very seamless link because no tones or squelch tails are
rebroadcasted.  Also this allows a nice pass cavity to be attatched in
between the link radio and its antenna.  This filters both TX and RX since
they would be the same freq. eliminating the need for a notch filter.  It
sort-of kills two birds with one stone because it provides isolation both
ways.  I have a feeling that this might kill the squeel.

 If that just isnt a viable solution, then one more thing, besides a
notch filter, to buy more isolation would be to provide plenty of vertical
seperation between the remote and repeater antennas.

 Hope you get the RX working to your satisfaction, I use a Micor
receiver on my repeater system as well, they are good receivers when they
are tuned up.  I also use a Pass/Reject duplexer and have a TE systems
preamp between the duplexer and the receiver.  That is another advantage of
using pass cavities on RX (or in my case the Pass/Reject duplexer) You net
much more usable gain out of a preamp.  This perked the RX on my machine
right up, The repeater can hear HT's a little better than they can hear it
back.  Its nice to have a machine that isn't an "alligator", all mouth and
no ears ;-)   ain't this repeater stuff fun? :o)

Wade - KR7K

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update


>
> Hi Wade,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions.  I guess my gutt told me the proper tune-up
> procedure was the way to go.  We just didn't have the time to do it at the
> time.
>
> I have one question about what you said.  You say I should have
pass-reject
> duplexers on both systems.  How can I put a pass-reject duplexer on a
radio
> that has only one antenna port?  I can see why the filtering would be
> helpful, but the remote base is operating in half-duplex so it really
> doesn't seem necessary.
>
> There is a good duplexer on the repeater itself, and the link doesn't
appear
> to desense the repeater.  Frankly, I don't care if the remote base is
> desensed a little, as long as I can receive the repeater at the other end,
> which I can.  I do notice a quiet squeel in the background of the received
> signal on the remote, which I assume is the repeater's transmitter.  I
think
> putting a notch can on the remote base, to notch out the repeater's
> transmitter, might do the trick.
>
> The squeel, while annoying, isn't a big deal right now.  The repeater
itself
> id deaf as a post, and we know that is attributable to the Micor receiver
> itself.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> Chris, KG0BP
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Wade Lake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
>
>
> >
> >   The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the
AFC
> > type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as outlined in
the
> > manual to the letter.
> >
> >  Also, I am not sure what isolation measures you have already taken
> but
> > they would have to be fairly extensive for pairs that close in frequency
> to
> > coexist happily at the same site, in order to work properly.  I would
> > suggest all 100% sheided cables - preferably Heliax, Pass/reject type
> > duplexers on both systems, and at least 1 extra high quality pass cavity
> on
> > both transmitters.  This is just for starters.  Each site is configured
> > differently so there may be several other measures to take.  Good earth
> > grounds to all components of the system and extra sheilding for mobile
> > radios used in a full duplex environment are 2 other necessary things to
> do.
> >
> >  It sounds like you have quite the system, and you are probably
aware
> of
> > the suggestions I am making here but sometimes the obvious things are
the
> > easiest to forget.  Sounds like your getting there.
> >
> > Best of luck to you and 73,
> >
> > Wade - KR7K
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
> >
> >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > A couple months ago I posted a question about in-band linking.  I
> thought
> > > I'd post an update on how it seems to be working.
> > >
> > > The r

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: "Old-Guys"

[Mark Holman]

 once was some group called  O.F.A.R.T.S. I think it was a ham club seen them usually at 
the Marshall, MI. hamfest.
M. H.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:50 
  AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
  "Old-Guys"
  
  "Old Guys" AKA "Old Farts" is a politically incorrect term use by Yuppies 
  that are age challenged.
   
  Art - KC7GF (Retired Old Fart AKA 
  ROF)













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola microphone schematic

[Mark Holman]

Neil;
What was pertty bad & Sad was no radio ... just a couple of control 
heads a red & green lamp, a mic. a Off-On -Vol Control. and a Squelch 
control.
that was way back in 1969 well the thing disappearred one day along with 
some other stuff ( B & E  ?  ?  ? ) .

like I say the mike was probably a good amp. mike just someone wanted it 
worse than I did.

M. H.

- Original Message - 
From: "Neil McKie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola microphone schematic


>
>
>  Not a problem, if you can remember which radio you had it
> connected to when you installed it, I probably have the manual
>
>  Was that a FMTRU-5V ?
>
>  Neil
>
>
>
> Mark Holman wrote:
>>
>> type in TU-154 for Motorola, an old remote head with a amplified 
>> mic.older
>> than dirt 1964 I think.
>>
>> I had one or 2 my dad gave me no radio though  :-(
>>
>> M. H.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:15 AM
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola microphone schematic
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyone know if the schematic for an amplified Motorola Mic is
>> > available on the net?
>> > Still trying to get this autopatch going and having some real level
>> > issues. My patch just doesn't have enough drive for the radio.
>> > TIA -Rob-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] question on repeater set up...

[Mark Holman]

Try this site --->  http://www.apcointl.org/   
M. H.

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] question on repeater set up...


> 
> 
> apco is the public saftey communications coordinator
> 
> bob kd6gnb
> 
> ___
> Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
> Now includes pop-up blocker!
> Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Brent]

Chris..
I have done what you are talking about several times.
And what they are talking about with the cavity is that  u tune the notch
side the the can to notch out the  repeaters TX freq and tune the pass for
what the link radio will be operating at to the middle of the frew that are
used for tx and rx on the link radio if different if the same simplex
operations is used tune the pas for that freq so the tx and rx will pass
thru. and the reject is knocking the repeaters tx freq out and you can do
the same for the repeater on the rx side with one more can also... tuned to
pass the repeaters rx side and reject the links tx side... but if you have
no problems with the  link causing harm to the repeaters rx'er than dont
worry about it but i would check it out anyways with a week single present
and the links tx ON and while still listening to the local rx turn the link
TX of ans listen for a difference...listen for desense...
Good Luck
Brent KF4TNP
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update


>
> Hi Wade,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions.  I guess my gutt told me the proper tune-up
> procedure was the way to go.  We just didn't have the time to do it at the
> time.
>
> I have one question about what you said.  You say I should have
pass-reject
> duplexers on both systems.  How can I put a pass-reject duplexer on a
radio
> that has only one antenna port?  I can see why the filtering would be
> helpful, but the remote base is operating in half-duplex so it really
> doesn't seem necessary.
>
> There is a good duplexer on the repeater itself, and the link doesn't
appear
> to desense the repeater.  Frankly, I don't care if the remote base is
> desensed a little, as long as I can receive the repeater at the other end,
> which I can.  I do notice a quiet squeel in the background of the received
> signal on the remote, which I assume is the repeater's transmitter.  I
think
> putting a notch can on the remote base, to notch out the repeater's
> transmitter, might do the trick.
>
> The squeel, while annoying, isn't a big deal right now.  The repeater
itself
> id deaf as a post, and we know that is attributable to the Micor receiver
> itself.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> Chris, KG0BP
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Wade Lake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
>
>
> >
> >   The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the
AFC
> > type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as outlined in
the
> > manual to the letter.
> >
> >  Also, I am not sure what isolation measures you have already taken
> but
> > they would have to be fairly extensive for pairs that close in frequency
> to
> > coexist happily at the same site, in order to work properly.  I would
> > suggest all 100% sheided cables - preferably Heliax, Pass/reject type
> > duplexers on both systems, and at least 1 extra high quality pass cavity
> on
> > both transmitters.  This is just for starters.  Each site is configured
> > differently so there may be several other measures to take.  Good earth
> > grounds to all components of the system and extra sheilding for mobile
> > radios used in a full duplex environment are 2 other necessary things to
> do.
> >
> >  It sounds like you have quite the system, and you are probably
aware
> of
> > the suggestions I am making here but sometimes the obvious things are
the
> > easiest to forget.  Sounds like your getting there.
> >
> > Best of luck to you and 73,
> >
> > Wade - KR7K
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
> >
> >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > A couple months ago I posted a question about in-band linking.  I
> thought
> > > I'd post an update on how it seems to be working.
> > >
> > > The repeater is on 442.750+ running about 25 watts.  It's a converted
> > Micor
> > > mobile.
> > >
> > > The remote base listens on 443.025 and transmits about 25 watts on
> > 448.025.
> > > The repeater it's talking to is about 90 miles away over a very good
> path.
> > > The remote base is an Icom 900 module attached to an FC-900.
> > >
> > > The repeater shows no obvious desense, and the signal strength of the
> link
> > > is full-quieting.  There is one odity, though.  The link seems to have
> > some
> > > sort of high-pitched, low--amplitude, squeel on it.  I assume this is
> some
> > > spur from the repeater's transmitter.  We plan to try to notch that
out
> > when
> > > we get a chance.
> > >
> > > There is one odity, though.  The Micor has been in service for about 2
> > years
> > > now.  When we first set it up, the receiver sensativity was about .35
> UV.
> > > Now, we can't get it to come below about .7

Re: [Repeater-Builder] forest service

[Mark Holman]

Forest Service,

Start by finding out any protected land by every 
political , envirmental, tribal land including sacred burial sites, I would 
reasearch everything before you sign on the dotted line, I would ask what 
paperwork is involved and ask for any help or who knows how to do it right.

you don't need bad news and protestors.  Makes a Huge Black eye if done 
wrong.

M. H.

- Original Message - 
From: "greenfin2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:09 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] forest service


>
>
> anyone have any experience when it comes to obtaining a site or
> leasing a communications site from the forest service? just
> wondering what to expect.
>
>thanks, pat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2330E Tuning Problems

[John Everson]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> John,
> 
> That's not possible, because the standard Sinclair harnesses are
> fabricated with crimped connections at every junction.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> Hi Eric.

That occured to me just a few minutes ago when I moved a sinclair 
duplexer from one rack to another for storage. 

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

73 de John







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Chris Peterson]

Hi Wade,

Thanks for the suggestions.  I guess my gutt told me the proper tune-up
procedure was the way to go.  We just didn't have the time to do it at the
time.

I have one question about what you said.  You say I should have pass-reject
duplexers on both systems.  How can I put a pass-reject duplexer on a radio
that has only one antenna port?  I can see why the filtering would be
helpful, but the remote base is operating in half-duplex so it really
doesn't seem necessary.

There is a good duplexer on the repeater itself, and the link doesn't appear
to desense the repeater.  Frankly, I don't care if the remote base is
desensed a little, as long as I can receive the repeater at the other end,
which I can.  I do notice a quiet squeel in the background of the received
signal on the remote, which I assume is the repeater's transmitter.  I think
putting a notch can on the remote base, to notch out the repeater's
transmitter, might do the trick.

The squeel, while annoying, isn't a big deal right now.  The repeater itself
id deaf as a post, and we know that is attributable to the Micor receiver
itself.

Thanks and 73,
Chris, KG0BP



- Original Message -
From: "Wade Lake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update


>
>   The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the AFC
> type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as outlined in the
> manual to the letter.
>
>  Also, I am not sure what isolation measures you have already taken
but
> they would have to be fairly extensive for pairs that close in frequency
to
> coexist happily at the same site, in order to work properly.  I would
> suggest all 100% sheided cables - preferably Heliax, Pass/reject type
> duplexers on both systems, and at least 1 extra high quality pass cavity
on
> both transmitters.  This is just for starters.  Each site is configured
> differently so there may be several other measures to take.  Good earth
> grounds to all components of the system and extra sheilding for mobile
> radios used in a full duplex environment are 2 other necessary things to
do.
>
>  It sounds like you have quite the system, and you are probably aware
of
> the suggestions I am making here but sometimes the obvious things are the
> easiest to forget.  Sounds like your getting there.
>
> Best of luck to you and 73,
>
> Wade - KR7K
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update
>
>
> >
> > All,
> >
> > A couple months ago I posted a question about in-band linking.  I
thought
> > I'd post an update on how it seems to be working.
> >
> > The repeater is on 442.750+ running about 25 watts.  It's a converted
> Micor
> > mobile.
> >
> > The remote base listens on 443.025 and transmits about 25 watts on
> 448.025.
> > The repeater it's talking to is about 90 miles away over a very good
path.
> > The remote base is an Icom 900 module attached to an FC-900.
> >
> > The repeater shows no obvious desense, and the signal strength of the
link
> > is full-quieting.  There is one odity, though.  The link seems to have
> some
> > sort of high-pitched, low--amplitude, squeel on it.  I assume this is
some
> > spur from the repeater's transmitter.  We plan to try to notch that out
> when
> > we get a chance.
> >
> > There is one odity, though.  The Micor has been in service for about 2
> years
> > now.  When we first set it up, the receiver sensativity was about .35
UV.
> > Now, we can't get it to come below about .7UV.  I should point out that
we
> > didn't do the full tuning procedure, we just tried to tweak things back
> into
> > place.  Also, the Micor has not been checked since it was put in service
2
> > years ago...  That is, it hasn't been checked until it was moved
> yesterday.
> >
> > My question is, is there anything that commonly goes bad in these things
> > that might cause this?  We have plenty of spare receivers around, so
> that's
> > not an issue, I was just curious if anyone had any ideas of things to
> check.
> >
> > Also, does anyone have any simplified tuning instructions for the UHF
> Micor
> > mobile or any tips that might make the procedure go more smoothly?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris, KG0BP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help!

[Wade Lake]

 Most Motorola radios that had the control head seperate from the rest
of the radio used ignition sense.  On the older radios it was plugged into
the rear of the control head.  Its been several years since I was a radio
tech but as I recall pin #19 on the back of the head was +12 VDC for the RX
circuits and pin #20 was +12VDC lts for the low power TX circuits.  The
heavy red wire supplies the PA.  If memory serves, it was the same on most
of the older ones, Micor, Mitrek, Motrac, etc.

Hope that helps,

Wade - KR7K


- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony L .Ferguson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:56 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help!


>
>
> Hello Folks,
>
> I know it has been a while since I've posted any news of my simplex
> repeater project. I have obtained 6 Motorola Mitrek transceivers with
> the control cable and control head. I have plenty of channel elements
> and having them recrystaled will not be an issue either. Bomar or
> International Crystal will be my choices.
>
> Now, I need help with something and I'm sure someone knows how to
> solve my problem, so here is the issue. I tried to test the Mitreks
> radios to see if they worked . I had the cable pins correctly placed
> in the control head, each pin were numbered so I don't think I
> screwed that up. I had the positive and negative wires hooked to the
> power supply with plenty of voltage at 13.8volt DC.
>
> I had the radio hooked to a dummy load in case of the radio
> transmitted, Power was getting to the radio by checking the internal
> power leads from the control cable. I pressed the PTT on the
> microphone and nothing happend. I did noticed that no power was
> getting to the control head, so I looked for a fuse nothing inside
> blown. I thought that the microphone might be messed up so I don't
> know it might be ?
>
> Then a friend mentioned that I would have to fool the radio or bypass
> something to make the radio appear to get 12 volts DC from the
> ignition. He mentioned about heating some pins and doing something
> like that on the inside to get the radio to tansmit. Anyone have any
> Idea what I need to do??
>
> Now for the other news, I have plans for the purchase of a full
> duplex repeater on 440 Mhz , so don't think I am getting cold feet HI
> HI.
>
> I'm slow working on this project but at least I'm not stopping with
> my plans. I should also say, I'm no the only one helping me either,
> there are a few others helping , so I don't want to take all the
> credit for this I'm not a glory hound.
>
> So, if anyone has any information please let me know.
> Thanks DE KB4ZGO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2330E Tuning Problems

[Eric Lemmon]

John,

That's not possible, because the standard Sinclair harnesses are
fabricated with crimped connections at every junction.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

John Everson wrote:

Hello there.

If you have the access to some elbows just put them in line with the
harness cable and see if the added length helps. This has worked for me
in the past and the added loss is negligible.

Best of luck.73 de John





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Decibel Products DB-224 Antenna & Noise

[highlandfl]

There is another possibility that I have run into with my Decible 
Products Antennas of the DB-224 type:  If the elements of the 
antenna are not welded to the metal suport on one end, corrosion can 
occur and movement can be experienced.  If the DB-224 antenna you 
are using is not "welded" but is simply a physical contact between 
the non insulated end of the element, it is not a good antenna for 
repeater use for the very reasons that others have pointed out - 
loose connections in the field of the antenna.

When you make the inspection of your antenna determine if your 
antenna has the conductive end of each element welded to the 
standoff or just a physical connection. I wish I had a picture I 
could attach to show you what I am talking about. I hope my 
explaination is clear.

I have been cautioned many times by the local technicians that work 
on these all the time about the use of Decible Products DB0224 (and 
other models for other bands) antennas in repeater use.

I do not have a Decible Products DB type antenna on my repeaters. I 
have three to put up. They will all be modified before installation 
to make sure that the physical connection of the elements are welded 
when they are not supposed to be insulated from the supports.

This discussion has been very good reading. Thank everyone for their 
contributions to this thread.

My fiberglass antenna (yes singular - one triband antenna for all 
three repeaters) was broken in Hurricane Frances this year. When it 
broke, crackling was very pronounced when there was an input signal 
and the system was repeating. It would go away on the squelch tail 
and when the repeater identification was transmitted.  
when the wind subsided a few moments the crackle decreased. When the 
wind picked up, the crackle picked up.  Inspection of the antenna 
from the ground with field glasses found it to be bent over at 90 
degrees and hung up under the support of a nearby Microwave dish.

Replacement of the antenna between hurricanes was required, but, 
when replaced, no crackle since Hurricane Frances during hurricanes 
Ivan, Jeanne or Karl (4 between August 25 and September 24 is too 
many and I hope that is the last of that schedule!)

Russ
N4KOX
145.11 MSR 2000 reapter
444.700 MSR 2000 repeater
53.21 Micor Repeater

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Please read this:
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> > There is only crackle when receiving a signal, never on the 
repeater tail.
> >  
> > Might help to mention that I can listen directly to the receiver 
audio 
> > at the repeater and hear the following:
> >  
> > Receiver weak signal - Xmtr turned on - Crackle
> > Receiver weak signal - Xmtr turned off - No crackle
> > Receiver no signal (squelched) - Xmtr turned on - No crackle
> > Receiver no signal (squelched) - Xmtr turned off - No crackle







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SINAD measurements

[Wade Lake]

 The Motorola shop I worked in had a Sinadder in the cabinet with about
an inch of dust on it.  All of us Techs used it when we first started until
we realized that after tuning 3 or 4 receivers a day for several weeks, it
wasnt hard at all to do it by ear.

Wade - KR7K


- Original Message - 
From: "Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SINAD measurements


>
> Well, I am always amazed that I can tune a radio by
> ear and come pretty close to the best sinad meter
> reading.
>
>
> --- skipp025 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When it comes to metering tone distortion and
> > piloting aircraft, one should never trust the
> > brain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update

[Wade Lake]

  The UHF Micor Mobile was a little tricky to tune, especially the AFC
type.  I would take care to follow the tuning procedure as outlined in the
manual to the letter.

 Also, I am not sure what isolation measures you have already taken but
they would have to be fairly extensive for pairs that close in frequency to
coexist happily at the same site, in order to work properly.  I would
suggest all 100% sheided cables - preferably Heliax, Pass/reject type
duplexers on both systems, and at least 1 extra high quality pass cavity on
both transmitters.  This is just for starters.  Each site is configured
differently so there may be several other measures to take.  Good earth
grounds to all components of the system and extra sheilding for mobile
radios used in a full duplex environment are 2 other necessary things to do.

 It sounds like you have quite the system, and you are probably aware of
the suggestions I am making here but sometimes the obvious things are the
easiest to forget.  Sounds like your getting there.

Best of luck to you and 73,

Wade - KR7K



- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] in-band linking update


>
> All,
>
> A couple months ago I posted a question about in-band linking.  I thought
> I'd post an update on how it seems to be working.
>
> The repeater is on 442.750+ running about 25 watts.  It's a converted
Micor
> mobile.
>
> The remote base listens on 443.025 and transmits about 25 watts on
448.025.
> The repeater it's talking to is about 90 miles away over a very good path.
> The remote base is an Icom 900 module attached to an FC-900.
>
> The repeater shows no obvious desense, and the signal strength of the link
> is full-quieting.  There is one odity, though.  The link seems to have
some
> sort of high-pitched, low--amplitude, squeel on it.  I assume this is some
> spur from the repeater's transmitter.  We plan to try to notch that out
when
> we get a chance.
>
> There is one odity, though.  The Micor has been in service for about 2
years
> now.  When we first set it up, the receiver sensativity was about .35 UV.
> Now, we can't get it to come below about .7UV.  I should point out that we
> didn't do the full tuning procedure, we just tried to tweak things back
into
> place.  Also, the Micor has not been checked since it was put in service 2
> years ago...  That is, it hasn't been checked until it was moved
yesterday.
>
> My question is, is there anything that commonly goes bad in these things
> that might cause this?  We have plenty of spare receivers around, so
that's
> not an issue, I was just curious if anyone had any ideas of things to
check.
>
> Also, does anyone have any simplified tuning instructions for the UHF
Micor
> mobile or any tips that might make the procedure go more smoothly?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris, KG0BP
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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