Re: [Repeater-Builder] 220 Repeater and Gear for Auction

[Eric Lemmon]

Most of the commercial radios and repeaters in the 220 MHz band are
designed for amplitude-companded SSB (4K00J3E) operation and cannot be
economically converted to conventional FM (16K0F3E) operation.  I was
recently given an ESP1000 repeater made by SEA, Incorporated, that is in
mint condition.  I thought I had a valuable asset until I realized that
the only components I could possibly use were the chassis and front
panel.  Caveat Emptor!

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

> I have noticed that a seller on ebay has a lot of 220 gear for sale
>
> 

>
> He has Duplexers, filters, radios and repeaters too...  May be one of
> the last calls for this type of gear in good shape.






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series 'Emergency'?

[Jim B.]

Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> It's still yesterday in our area. These tones are in use daily to
> dispatch fire and rescue.
> 
> Chuck WB2EDV

Yup-most dept's around here don't trust anything else, ie numeric 
pagers, etc.

-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: tx combiner follow up... UPDATE 2

[skipp025]

I get to stick my neck out first again... 

I've cut out mucho and added some comments. 

>  ... 6 Motorola MTR2000 100W repeaters, 

I'd probably Cut the repeater power output 
down a bit. Since you have narly antenna gain, 
I'd probably back the repeaters down to 80 
watts to possibly improve the unwanted products 
from the power amplifiers (which can be measured).

> Also part of the system are a factory tuned Telewave
> M101-150-6TRM TX Combiner 

Did you check the combiner for proper tuning? All 
is rarely plug and play in the real world. "Trust 
but verify".

> (Cavity/Dual Isolator type), and a Sinclair
> RM201-112S1B RX Multicoupler fitted with a BP 
> Preselector (with 1MHz pass-band, and factory 
> tuned to 165.625), a "Hi Level" Bipolar preamp
> (Angle Linear brand / anglelinear.com), 

Crap, I just took a look at it. 
Not enough protection... by a long shot. You need 
to boot the 1 MHz band pass filter and get a real 
serious vhf preselection network. 

As mentioned before, you should also add some 
serious receiver protection in the transmit 
combiner side/path. 

> and a 12 port power divider.

Using 6 ports..?  Every other coax jack should be used 
to balance the internal dividers better and "mo 
isolation". 

> Between the preamp output and the power divider there 
> is a 2dB pad fitted. 

Not good, the horse is already out of the barn... 

> Since we only use 6 output ports of the 12 available, the
> remaining ones have been fitted with 50-ohm terminators on them.

Should be every other port as I described above.

> Antenna system consists of two Decibel DB228 8-dipole 
> arrays, mounted on a 90ft self supporting tower. 

Nice... 

> RX antenna is at the top, TX is
> mounted from about mid-tower down. Vertical separation between
> antennas is not much due to tower height limitations, and each
> antenna's length, but each DB228 is mounted on a separate adjacent
> tower leg. Feedlines are 7/8 hardline running on separate tower legs

If the site is on a hill, you might do better with a bit more 
vertical seperation trade. Lower the tx antenna if possible. 
Increasing the vertical seperation from 45' to say... 65' will 
help a lot.

> up until the point where they start to get horizontal to be routed
> into the building next to the tower. At this point they run parallel
> to each other for about 40ft. 

Parallel as in right next to each other?  A big no-no even 
for 7/8 Hardline. The two lines had better be min 6 inches 
away from each other in the the inbound tray. 

> Combiner to repeater TX port jumpers are made of Belden 9913, 

>From Telewave..? or you made them up?   You need to boot the 
9913 and use RG-214 min or 1/2 inch superflex hardline typical. 

> and between RX Multicoupler and RX ports we were using 100% 
> shield RG58.

Crap... boot the RG-58 right away. There is no real 100% 
shielded rg-58 that I've ever measured. 

>  Since at least one person expressed concern over the usage 
> of said cables, we changed the RX jumpers to RG142. 

Most of the pro repeater sites out here also use RG-214 for 
the receiver side, unless they use hard line or older RG-9. 

> TESTS
> 
> One of our first tests was to look at the combiner output with a
> spectrum analyzer trough a "Lossy T". It looked pretty clean 
> with only two or three smaller peaks on the sides of the main 
> carrier, all between 40-50db down or more.

Not good enough... did you use any main signal notch cavities 
with the test set up described below?  You are not going to see 
the problem using what you describe above. 

Lunch takes me away (I like to eat)... more later on. 

cheers, 
skipp 






 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Kenwood TKB-720 CTCSS tone input location

[skipp025]

Accessory Connector Pin 3 is the "DI" Modulation 
input (both signaling and audio).  Pin 2 is the 
Line & mod inpug Ground "GND". 

Pin 5 is the Line input, modulation input. 

good luck... 

skipp 
www.radiowrench.com 

> "Hellewell, Byron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi
>   Can anyone help me with the physical location of where to inject a
> variable 
> CTCSS tone into the Kenwood TKB-720 radio. 
> 
>   I do not have the schematic or manual just the connector pinout.
> So a good description would help.
> 
>   I tried adding it to the audio being sent to the audio input pin in
> the
> accessory connector but it must be filtered as the tone does not get
> thru.
> 
>   The repeater version (TKR-720) has another audio input pin 
> but that pin is used for frequency selection in the TKB-720.
> 
> Thanks
> Byron







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Air Variable Capacitors for DB4060 (another source)

[skipp025]

One place I buy special Johanson type capacitors for 
my research is from Americal Technical Ceramics. 

cheers, 
skipp 


> Burt Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Johanson 30 pf trimmer is very rare in surplus but the 10 pf 
> trimmers are very common and cheap (as little as 50c-$1 each) in 
> surplus. I have bought a few hundred over the years, mostly at 
> fleamarkets. I have used 3 10pf trimmers in parallel to replace the 30 
> pf trimmers in Sinclair cans.  Depending on the mounting arrangement 
> that may also work with the DB cans.  Also the 10pf unit has a much 
> higher Q than the 30pf trimmer and paralleling them MAY give a higher Q 
> than the single 30pf unit.  From experience it is certainly no worse.
> 
> Richardson Electronics also sell Johanson but their minimum qty is 100 
> pces.  Electrosonic in Toronto used to distribute them but no longer 
> have the account.  The single unit price for the 5602 should be in the 
> $15 range.
> 
> Don't be tempted to use trimmers that have a sliding or rotating 
> connection to the rotor such as the Johnson air trimmers.  I tried that 
> one time and the rf currant thru the joint caused noise and instability 
> reflected back to the transmitter.  The Johanson trimmer uses a bellows 
> connection from the moveable element to ground that is a solid but 
> flexable connection.
> 
> Just some hints from years of modifying and making cans in my shop.
> 
> Burt  VE2BMQ
> 
> Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
> > Greetings all,
> > 
> > I need two air variable capacitors for our DB4060 cans.  I
contacted the
> > company who bought out DB Products and was informed that they
don't sell
> > parts... but if they did, the price would be $41 each for the caps!
> > 
> > The caps are Johanson 5602 (www.johansonmfg.com) 1 - 30 pf air
variables.  I
> > requested a quote from Arizona Components Company and one other
place, but
> > expect the get the 'we don't sell in small quantity' response.  Google
> > hasn't been much help either. 
> > 
> > Does anybody have a couple of these in your pocket or know where I
can get
> > my hands on a couple of them.  What about ideas for suitable subs?  
> > 
> > -- de WM4B
> > Mike
> > Kathleen, GA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: tx combiner follow up... UPDATE 2

[vintageaudio2004]

Hello again everyone. Sorry for the extra long post, but wanted to
make sure not to leave out anything, so as to hopefully minimize the
need for further follow up questions on these facts. 

SYSTEM DESCRIPTION

Just as a refresher, this is a 6-channel VHF MPT1327 Trunking system.
It consists of 6 Motorola MTR2000 100W repeaters, fitted with a
circulator on the TX output stage, and optional Preselector on the
back of the unit. Also part of the system are a factory tuned Telewave
M101-150-6TRM TX Combiner (Cavity/Dual Isolator type), and a Sinclair
RM201-112S1B RX Multicoupler fitted with a BP Preselector (with 1MHz
pass-band, and factory tuned to 165.625), a "Hi Level" Bipolar preamp
(Angle Linear brand / anglelinear.com), and a 12 port power divider.
Between the preamp output and the power divider there is a 2dB pad
fitted. Since we only use 6 output ports of the 12 available, the
remaining ones have been fitted with 50-ohm terminators on them.
Antenna system consists of two Decibel DB228 8-dipole arrays, mounted
on a 90ft self supporting tower. RX antenna is at the top, TX is
mounted from about mid-tower down. Vertical separation between
antennas is not much due to tower height limitations, and each
antenna's length, but each DB228 is mounted on a separate adjacent
tower leg. Feedlines are 7/8 hardline running on separate tower legs
up until the point where they start to get horizontal to be routed
into the building next to the tower. At this point they run parallel
to each other for about 40ft. Grounding kits have been installed on
each cable at the top and bottom of each run at the tower. A
Polyphaser VHF50HN Surge Protector is going to be fitted soon between
the equipment rack and the end of the 7/8 cable runs with a 1/2
suplerflex jumper. Also another grounding kit will be installed just
prior to where the two 7/8 cables enter the building. For the time
being the ends of the 7/8 lines are fitted each with a double Female
N-connector (in place of the Polyphaser unit, and connected to the 1/2
suplerflex jumpers. The tower being used was in service for a
cellsite, but since has been abandoned for some years. Since the tower
structure is in good shape, only the grounding system proved to
require some attention. Measurements show that the 4 grounding points
show 995, 85, 170, and 218 ohms. The grounding system is going to be
completely redone on our next visit to the site. Adjacent to the tower
are three satellite up/down links. Grounding system on one of them
shows less than 20-ohms (with 4 rods), so it should be no problem to
get our grounding into spec. The only other system fairly close by is
another VHF repeater (plain-Jane GR300), but so far apparently it does
not seem to be any cause of concern. It is located on a separate tower
about a mile away from ours, and has about the same height. Operating
frequencies of this system are 157.700 and 162.700 (but not sure which
is TX).

Combiner to repeater TX port jumpers are made of Belden 9913, and
between RX Multicoupler and RX ports we were using 100% shield RG58.
Since at least one person expressed concern over the usage of said
cables, we changed the RX jumpers to RG142, and then we found a way to
temporarily hook up the combiner directly into the TX ports in order
to remove all 9913 jumpers. See tests bellow for more info on this.

Operating channel frequency pairs start at T160.125 R165.125 (for CH1)
with 200KHz increments to T161.125 R166.125 for CH6.


SYMPTOMS

When the system was installed, under certain circumstances we noticed
an unwanted (weak) signal appearing in one or more repeater receivers.
It barely opens the squelch on the affected repeaters, but it is
enough to cause problems. The signal manifests itself as an indication
of the Carrier LED of each affected repeater coming on, even if the
particular channel is not in use. The interference was consistent with
our own operations, and did not seem to depend on other external
factors, as the other repeater system mentioned before. We monitored
activity of this system, and it did nothing to change our interference
when it was active.

Basically the interfering signal shows up as described above when
several of our own TX signals are present. This normally would happen
when the control channel repeater (usually CH1) is on the air, and a
call is placed into the system. Interference showed up most
prominently when CH5 or 6 where assigned to the call as traffic
channel, but would also happen with other channels. When a call is
placed, this would bring up contentiously another repeater TX for the
duration of the call. The interfering signal would mostly only show up
whenever the PTT of the radio that initiated the call would be keyed.
This happened both with the portable being keyed right in front of the
equipment rack, and also from 300-400 feet away. Although sometimes we
where also able to get the interference to show up when several
repeaters where transmitting at the same time, and without ne

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Grounding

[George Philips]

Dear Glenn,

I would very much like to get a copy on CD.  Only wonder how I could
reimburse the expense of sending it to me.

I sent you a message direct to your address but did not receive a reply.
Hence this message.

73,

George, VU2GT.

- Original Message -
From: "Glenn Little WB4UIV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Grounding


> I can send you a copy on CD if you want.
>
> 73
> Glenn
>
> At 02:20 AM 08/06/05, you wrote:
> >Hi chaps!  Greetings from India.
> >
> >Can anyone tell me whether this handbook is available in hard copy?  The
> >thought of downloading 812 pages is a bit daunting.
> >
> >73,
> >
> >George, VU2GT
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Glenn Little WB4UIV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: 
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:51 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Grounding
> >
> >
> > > Down load a copy of MIL-HDBK-419 "Grounding, Bonding, and Shielding
for
> > > Electronic Equipments and Facilities"

> >,
> > > this is the military handbook on grounding. It is large and in two
volumes
> > > about 812 pages. One is theory, the other is practice. Covers
grounding
> >for
> > > safety, lightning, nuclear blast and most everything else. A very good
> >read
> > > and eye opener.
> > >
> > > 73
> > > Glenn
> > > WB4UIV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Air Variable Capacitors for DB4060

[Ted Bleiman K9MDM - MDM Radio]

we here at mdm radio , anticipating your every need request consulting our website for trim caps.you and we (or is it we'uns) may be surprised.
mdm
 
 
 
The Johanson 30 pf trimmer is very rare in surplus but the 10 pf trimmers are very common and cheap (as little as 50c-$1 each) in surplus. I have bought a few hundred over the years, mostly at fleamarkets. I have used 3 10pf trimmers in parallel to replace the 30 pf trimmers in Sinclair cans. Depending on the mounting arrangement that may also work with the DB cans. Also the 10pf unit has a much higher Q than the 30pf trimmer and paralleling them MAY give a higher Q than the single 30pf unit. From experience it is certainly no worse.Richardson Electronics also sell Johanson but their minimum qty is 100 pces. Electrosonic in Toronto used to distribute them but no longer have the account. The single unit price for the 5602 should be in the $15 range.Don't be tempted to use trimmers that have a sliding or rotating connection to the rotor such as the Johnson air trimmers. I tried that one time and the rf currant thru
 the joint caused noise and instability reflected back to the transmitter. The Johanson trimmer uses a bellows connection from the moveable element to ground that is a solid but flexable connection.Just some hints from years of modifying and making cans in my shop.Burt VE2BMQMike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:> Greetings all,> > I need two air variable capacitors for our DB4060 cans. I contacted the> company who bought out DB Products and was informed that they don't sell> parts... but if they did, the price would be $41 each for the caps!> > The caps are Johanson 5602 (www.johansonmfg.com) 1 - 30 pf air variables. I> requested a quote from Arizona Components Company and one other place, but> expect the get the 'we don't sell in small quantity' response. Google> hasn't been much help either. > > Does anybody have a couple of these in your pocket or know where I can
 get> my hands on a couple of them. What about ideas for suitable subs? > > -- de WM4B> Mike> Kathleen, GA> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








Ted Bleiman K9MDM
MDM Radio Ltd - 1629-B N. 31 st Ave Melrose Park, IL 60160 708.681.0300 fax 708.681.9800 web http://www.mdmradio.com - 
Check it now!!
 __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 













  




  
  
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[Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKB-720 CTCSS tone input location

[Hellewell, Byron]

Hi
  Can anyone help me with the physical location of where to inject a
variable 
CTCSS tone into the Kenwood TKB-720 radio. 

  I do not have the schematic or manual just the connector pinout.
So a good description would help.

  I tried adding it to the audio being sent to the audio input pin in
the
accessory connector but it must be filtered as the tone does not get
thru.

  The repeater version (TKR-720) has another audio input pin 
but that pin is used for frequency selection in the TKB-720.

Thanks
Byron




 
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[Repeater-Builder] 220 Repeater and Gear for Auction

[Lloyd Mitchell]

I have noticed that a seller on ebay has a lot of 220 gear for sale

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=radiorescue123&ssPageName=STRK:MEFS:MESOI

He has Duplexers, filters, radios and repeaters too...

May be one of the last calls for this type of gear in good shape.

Mitch KD4HTW






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series 'Emergency'?

[Kevin King]

A friend (AF4PX) will say EIEIO when I start talking too technical.
Something I do too often. So when I hear him call this out I know I have
starting going out in left field. Jokingly I have put it on my tag line.

Kevin King SCSA BSCIS
ARS KC6OVD
GMRS KAG0378
EIEIO 2722
Acworth Georgia


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Buley, Kenneth L
(GE Consumer & Industrial)
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:06 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series
'Emergency'?


EIEIO 2722 ???

Kenneth Buley
Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2
Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6
Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES 

"Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who
in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality."


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin King
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 6:44 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series
'Emergency'?


August 28 universal will release season 1 on DVD.

then you can "study" the 70's comm. systems of the LAFD. Just to keep it
repeater related.

Kevin King SCSA BSCIS
ARS KC6OVD
GMRS KAG0378
EIEIO 2722
Acworth Georgia







 
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<>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series 'Emergency'?

[Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer & Industrial\)]

EIEIO 2722 ???

Kenneth Buley
Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2
Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6
Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES 

"Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in 
a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality."


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin King
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 6:44 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series
'Emergency'?


August 28 universal will release season 1 on DVD.

then you can "study" the 70's comm. systems of the LAFD. Just to keep it
repeater related.

Kevin King SCSA BSCIS
ARS KC6OVD
GMRS KAG0378
EIEIO 2722
Acworth Georgia







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series 'Emergency'?

[Neil McKie]

MIKE BOYD wrote:
> 
> http://emergency51.com/sounds.html
> 
> --- Neil McKie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >   http://www.policeinterceptor.com/sounds/sta050.wav
> >
> >
> >   Turn on your speakers ...
> >
> >   Neil McKie
> >





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series 'Emergency'?

[Kevin King]

August 28 universal will release season 1 on DVD.

then you can "study" the 70's comm. systems of the LAFD. Just to keep it
repeater related.

Kevin King SCSA BSCIS
ARS KC6OVD
GMRS KAG0378
EIEIO 2722
Acworth Georgia


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick & Charlotte
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:01 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series
'Emergency'?


WOW that bring back mem's of the good ol days .. loved that show

to bad I have not been able to catch it in reruns :( ..

would love the whole sound track if I remember right there was a lot
of 'sound' before the voice came out ..

Rick

On 8 Aug 2005 at 21:52, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> It's still yesterday in our area. These tones are in use daily to
> dispatch fire and rescue.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
>
>
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Mark A. Holman
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:29 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Slightly OT - Remember the TV Series
>   'Emergency'?
>
>
>   I can still recall the tones like it was yesterday !  COOL ! 8-)
>
>   mch wrote:
> It was Station 51, not 50.
>
> Joe M.
>
> Neil McKie wrote:
> http://www.policeinterceptor.com/sounds/sta050.wav
>
>   Turn on your speakers ...
>
>   Neil McKie
>
>
>
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Rick Szajkowski VA3 RZS
Charlotte Darby VA3 CMR
Node Owners of IRLP Node 2120
147.300 + VA3 OME
224.420 -  VA3 OME
Part of The Omeme Amateur Radio Club
Peterborough Ont. Canada






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