RE: [Repeater-Builder] wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods?
You need to have a service monitor that has a tracking generator / spectrum analyzer to accurately tune the duplexer. Find someone that has one help you with tuning the duplexer. If nobody has one, take it to a radio shop and ask if they could please re tune it. They may or not charge you. Mike K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hbbcara Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods? Hi all, In tuning the reject for a wp-639, how far should I expect to move the invar rods to find the notch? In tuning mine (the poor man's way - system on the air receiving a weak station) I didn't find a definite place Id call a null. There was more noise on the signal with the rod pushed most of the way in and less noise with the rod most of the way out, but it was a gradual change. I expected to find it noisy with the rod mostly in, noisy with the rod mostly out and at some point in between a quieter spot. SO my question is, should I hear a definite noisey-quiet-noisey pattern as I move the rods and if so, over how much motion of the rods is it likely to fall? An inch? Half-inch? Three inches? Or would that pattern only be noticeable with the right equipment. (Some background - the duplexer is from an uncertain origin, but it has a factory sticker saying 146.97 - 146.37 with the ports marked high input and low input. I'm using it on 146.88/28 so it shouldn't be an upside-down issue.) Thanks for any info! rj Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/15/09 06:07:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods?
Hopefully, you have only tried to tune on of the cans. If you still have a can that is tuned to the original frequency they were working (???) on, try to follow the procedure on repeater builders carefully. If you get that one working, you can try to set the rods to the same dimensions as the good one a try to tune the other ones. It is possible to get a duplexer working satisfactorily (but probably not optimally) without the proper test equipment (tracking generator, etc) but takes a lot of patience and time. I did it many years ago to a set of homebrew 220Mhz cans with an HT and an RF detector on an Oscilloscope. After several nights of tuning and graphing results I got them to work very well. If you start with a working set of cans, moving them to a new frequency is easier. It sounds like you need to hook up with someone that has a service monitor or a network analyzer. Where are you located? Maybe someone can give you a hand. 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods?
There's no way to tell how much, the adjustments interact with each other. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - The question remains though, how much should I expect to have to move the plastic stick in the reject adjustment?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods?
Joe is correct, if you're going to try an tune it without the proper test equipment, you will not get it perfect. It may work, but not as well as it could. Early in my career, I was able to tune a duplexer with a couple HT's, one for xmit and one for receive, but I found I needed a step attenuator to keep from saturating the receiving HT. I was really proud of myself cause I could tune for the peak and the null by using this method. It worked, but later when I had access to the proper equipment, I checked the duplexer and found I missed the proper settings by 10 Db on one side and 15 on the other. I don't think there is anyway you'll be able to tune it by ear. Try and find someone with the proper gear, you'll be much happier in the end. Gary - K7NEY Joe wrote: Hopefully, you have only tried to tune on of the cans. If you still have a can that is tuned to the original frequency they were working (???) on, try to follow the procedure on repeater builders carefully. If you get that one working, you can try to set the rods to the same dimensions as the good one a try to tune the other ones. It is possible to get a duplexer working satisfactorily (but probably not optimally) without the proper test equipment (tracking generator, etc) but takes a lot of patience and time. I did it many years ago to a set of homebrew 220Mhz cans with an HT and an RF detector on an Oscilloscope. After several nights of tuning and graphing results I got them to work very well. If you start with a working set of cans, moving them to a new frequency is easier. It sounds like you need to hook up with someone that has a service monitor or a network analyzer. Where are you located? Maybe someone can give you a hand. 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods?
If you bring them to me I will (try to) tune them for you... No charge. - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun Jul 19 07:33:17 2009 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods? Hopefully, you have only tried to tune on of the cans. If you still have a can that is tuned to the original frequency they were working (???) on, try to follow the procedure on repeater builders carefully. If you get that one working, you can try to set the rods to the same dimensions as the good one a try to tune the other ones. It is possible to get a duplexer working satisfactorily (but probably not optimally) without the proper test equipment (tracking generator, etc) but takes a lot of patience and time. I did it many years ago to a set of homebrew 220Mhz cans with an HT and an RF detector on an Oscilloscope. After several nights of tuning and graphing results I got them to work very well. If you start with a working set of cans, moving them to a new frequency is easier. It sounds like you need to hook up with someone that has a service monitor or a network analyzer. Where are you located? Maybe someone can give you a hand. 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap
Jon; Using the dsb dongle which is a CM108 chip based usb audio interface one of the internal I/O pins of the device is mapped for each ptt and cor.. BUT.. COR is not really needed as the device DSP can handle signal to noise squelch and will work better on its own on raw discriminator.. PTT is required and if you build your own dongle.. you add a ptt transistor inside the device... It is a USB Sound FOB... I ordered 5 of them for about $7.00 ea... Information on the modifications is published... Google CM108 usb sound fob app_rpt and you should find several links.. or start at the allstar link page.. Doug Jon Bivin - WB0VTM wrote: hey Doug, How is COR and PTT accomplished on this? Is it through the dongle? Or the comports? Thanks, Jon - WB0VTM - Original Message - *From:* Doug Bade mailto:k...@thebades.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap
[Repeater-Builder] Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band
Okay guys, I might be biting off more than I know here, but I've been tasked out to try to get this accomplished for a new fledgling group of hams here. How much effort is really involved in converting a 406-420Mhz Mastr II machine (combination ending in 77) up to the ham band? Need to start learning more somewhere and this seems like a good avenue to take. I'm sure someone must have written up a step by step guide for re-tuning, I just have not found it yet. A point in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks, Dave - N0TRQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP - Cheap
Ethernet on a fiber backbone. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin King kc6...@... wrote: Martin, What transport are you using between the routers? Are you Ethernet to another router or do you have a T1 wic in the 2600's? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rahwayflynn Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:20 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP - Cheap I have the setup that Kevin Describes under construction now. Cisco has apps notes on their website at: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_3t/12_3t7/feature/guide/gtlmrip.html total hardware cost was ~$475.00 for both routers and the cards. The radio traffic is in a seperate VLAN with high enough QOS to avoid issues. Martin
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band
Should have added this is a Mastr II station (Comb #DC757YAU77D). Thanks, Dave --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dave Cochran d...@... wrote: Okay guys, I might be biting off more than I know here, but I've been tasked out to try to get this accomplished for a new fledgling group of hams here. How much effort is really involved in converting a 406-420Mhz Mastr II machine (combination ending in 77) up to the ham band? Need to start learning more somewhere and this seems like a good avenue to take. I'm sure someone must have written up a step by step guide for re-tuning, I just have not found it yet. A point in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks, Dave - N0TRQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP - Cheap
Has anybody ever found a cookbook setup for this. I have a pair of 2600's, and the VIC-2E/Ms, and NM-1's, but it seems my IOS version is 12.3 and won't do it, plus, IOS, while fairly intuitive, has so many crankhandles that I get lost in the setup. It seems that while the hardware may be readily available ( a friend sent three 2600's thta were being tossed out) the real issue will be IOS. About 8 years back a friend in DFW had this setup, but as a remote phone line extention. Same basic stuff. And you cannot beat it for reliability. But for site link I use DRIL which is a modified simpleh323 deal. Run it on CF card with a pair of Netier XL-2000 250 mhz computers. I'm also playing with app_rpt. The USB audio interface has issues. But for non-critical (amateur radio) applications, its ok. Maybe overkill for a link. Also trying limey-linux, have my first working build there. Not bad, no moving parts. GeorgeC W2DB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin King kc6...@... wrote: Ok here are some prices for the Cisco solution. Cisco 2600XM router 50 to 200 bucks on eBay depends on what cards might be in router. VIC-2E/M 12 to 40 Bucks on eBay, NM-2V 33 bucks buy now on eBay. This is what you need on each site minimum. If you hooked up with a ham that is a Cisco Jock, you should be able to do each site for less than 200 bucks. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wa5jxy Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:09 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap OK, I have searched the ROIP posts, and I have to say all the posts I have viewed just miss the point of what I am looking for. Yes, there are MANY ROIP commercial product related posts. All What I am looking for is a SIMPLE and CHEAP solution for ROIP for AMATEUR service. OK, I understand the commercial product line and the need for small business solutions (). Raytheon NXU etc. What about the amateur service trying to break into the ROIP solution? I built a P25 repeater for amateur service just because the technology is there. It works and is cheaper than buying a complete P25 commercial repeater. Now I want to build a ROIP interface similar to IRLP and Echolink without a central server owned by someone else. I have the dedicated fiber infrastructure (10GB backbone) in place I can utilize for ROIP. What I need is a schematic so I can build my own ROIP cards for PC or a cheap already built card available on ebay. There must be a Asterisk and cheap card solution out there. Anybody already done this? I have an Asterisk PBX server already built and working. Anybody set up Asterisk for ROIP and what card(s) did you use? I see then for $159 on ebay but I already have MANY parts and can build them cheaper, but still need a schematic or pre-built card. If not, how about starting a discussion to do this? My goal is to link several repeaters via ROIP other than echolink or IRLP. Thanks! Neil WA5JXY Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band
Dave, The component differences may be detailed out in the LBI's for the 77 or 88 split models. But, just trade somebody the receiver front end/LO and exciter from an 88 split. Your 77 is less common. Easy change out then align and you're going. 73 Don W5DK -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dakaratcaptivereefing Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:15 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band Should have added this is a Mastr II station (Comb #DC757YAU77D). Thanks, Dave --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dave Cochran d...@... wrote: Okay guys, I might be biting off more than I know here, but I've been tasked out to try to get this accomplished for a new fledgling group of hams here. How much effort is really involved in converting a 406-420Mhz Mastr II machine (combination ending in 77) up to the ham band? Need to start learning more somewhere and this seems like a good avenue to take. I'm sure someone must have written up a step by step guide for re-tuning, I just have not found it yet. A point in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks, Dave - N0TRQ Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Ethernet to 4 wire
Is there a cheap converter that will take an Ethernet connection and be able to convert to 4 wire to connect directly to a controller port. If we could have, COR, PTT, RX Audio TX Audio this would be a great way to link via Ethernet. I thought I would throw this out there to see if anybody has done this without spending $1000's on IP223 or Linux stuff. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular
RE: [Repeater-Builder] wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods?
Watch your signal strength meter on your radio. The input signal may not be weak enough to hear a noisey-quiet-noisey Actually while tuning for a notch you need to be listening to the freq you are trying to notch and it will be a quiet-noisey-quiet as you move the notch rod on the side. Tune for most noise (weakest signal). First consult the tuning instructions on where to set the notch adjustment rods for starting point. You should set all the (4) pass adjustments first You have to tune the pass first, that is the threaded rod in the center of the can. You can do this by transmitting (you can use an HT or mobile on low power for this) on the freq you want to pass and adjusting (not while transmitting) for least reflected power into a dummy load or antenna. Do this one can at a time then put them all back together and terminate the open port into a dummy load. check the reflected power again it should be very close to where it was with only one can if not you can tweek the first pass adjustment. Do not move the pass adjustments again. Now for the notch you will have to be receiving a weak signal on the freq you want to reject (this is where a variable attenuator helps) and adjust the rods on the side of the cans you just set for the freq you wanted to pass. Adjust the rods for weakest signal on your signal strength meter. Adjust one then the other until you get the weakest possible signal. You will have to move the rods as far as it takes there is no set answer as to how far to move the rods. Then repeat the above notch adjustment procedure for the other set of cans. hope this helps. I have tuned several with nothng more than a signal generator and a ht with a signal strength meter. After I got the right equipment I found little to no improvement in performance when retuned with the service monitor. tom [Original Message] From: hbbcara hbbc...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/18/2009 10:44:30 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] wp-639 -- How far should I expect to move the invar rods? Hi all, In tuning the reject for a wp-639, how far should I expect to move the invar rods to find the notch? In tuning mine (the poor man's way - system on the air receiving a weak station) I didn't find a definite place Id call a null. There was more noise on the signal with the rod pushed most of the way in and less noise with the rod most of the way out, but it was a gradual change. I expected to find it noisy with the rod mostly in, noisy with the rod mostly out and at some point in between a quieter spot. SO my question is, should I hear a definite pattern as I move the rods and if so, over how much motion of the rods is it likely to fall? An inch? Half-inch? Three inches? Or would that pattern only be noticeable with the right equipment. (Some background - the duplexer is from an uncertain origin, but it has a factory sticker saying 146.97 - 146.37 with the ports marked high input and low input. I'm using it on 146.88/28 so it shouldn't be an upside-down issue.) Thanks for any info! rj Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP - Cheap
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, George Csahanin geo...@... wrote: Has anybody ever found a cookbook setup for this. I have a pair of 2600's, and the VIC-2E/Ms, and NM-1's, but it seems my IOS version is 12.3 and won't do it, plus, IOS, while fairly intuitive, has so many crankhandles that I get lost in the setup. George, You need the 2500XM. The minimum vintages are at http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_3t/12_3t7/feature/guide/gtlmrip.html Once I have this squared away, I will dump the config and upload it to the library. Martin
[Repeater-Builder] MOTOTRBO Field Service Bulletins
I have just uploaded to the Files section of this Group five FSBs (Field Service Bulletins) that pertain to MotoTrbo equipment. Of particular importance is FSB10163, which addresses the correct procedure to follow when upgrading the firmware in XPR repeaters, mobiles, and portables. Those readers who have performed firmware upgrades on Commercial or Professional Series radios are used to the process taking no more than a minute or so, depending upon the number of personalities and features programmed. However, a firmware upgrade on an XPR8300 repeater could take as long as 20 minutes! The subject FSB cautions technicians to be patient when upgrading firmware on all MotoTrbo radios, since disconnecting the cables before the procedure is finished will leave the radio inoperative and require that it be sent to the depot for repair. Read FSB10163 for the details. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
[Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Hybrid Ring Duplexer
Yesterday, with a buddy, I attempted to tune my first set of hybrid ring duplexers. I have successfully tuned many sets of duplexers and didn't expect to have any trouble with a minor freq move. I have read and understand the theory behind the design. http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/hybridring.html In practice I saw some unexpected results. My buddy has a new to him HP 8935 (SA/tracking) so we started off using it. I have a HP8921A that we also used. We used good shielded cables, 3db pads x3 and good dummy loads, etc. We started off with a working good on 145.23/144.63 set of duplexers. They were taken off the air and brought to me to be moved up to 146.76/16. I am sure these were many megs up originally and were modified to get down to 145.23. It appears only the termination stub coax lengths were changed and they are longer than the 144-146 instructions suggested as starting points. So I understand the rings/stubs and antenna port for each side may not be *perfect* but they were performing and we are only moving them up a meg or so (towards the original harness freq).. First thing off the bat we looked at the current high pass side and it looked like it only had 45 db separation, the low pass looked better at 65, other wised shaped pretty good. How could they be working good all these years like that? Reading the HP correctly? Yes. H. We used the Sinclair instructions to retune them substituting our tracking gen/SA test gear for the instructions sig gen/receiver. We followed the laborious instructions carefully (course tune/fine tune) and ended up with similar separation numbers on the new freqs. Hmmm, must be something quirky with the 8935, fired up the 8921 and it showed we had even less separation. Half what the 8935 showed. When placed into station service into a dummy load, they didn't work, I'll spare you the numbers. Time for a beer. We fiddled with it some more using both service monitors, a talkie and a bird and didn't move anything much, everything was still peaking/nulling. It has been my experience that with 3db pads on the 3 ports, patch cable lengths to test gear are not critical, I'm beginning to think this style ring system is finicky. After sleeping on it I am thinking we are really close. I'm guessing we are unable to see the ring cancelation/null/pass with the gear we are using even though we are able to see the pass and reject peaks during our steps? I'm looking for suggestions on what I'm missing and why we can't we use our expensive test gear to fine tune these freaks? 73 Don W5DK
[Repeater-Builder] Re: crimping vs soldering types of coax connectors
My experience has been that if you use a high quality cable, high quality connector and crimping dies made specifically for the particular cable and connectors...crimp-on will working very well. It won't be cheap though. I have, when practical, soldered the connector tip to the cable...after crimping, as an added insurance for a positive connection. If done corrctly and with high quality material, I now prefer crimped connections. Dave, W9XTZ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP - Cheap
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_3t/12_3t7/feature/guide/gtlmrip.pdf This document has a good set of examples of how to set this up. You should be able to download the version of IOS you need. Or the friend that gave them to you might have the ability to get it from Cisco. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Csahanin Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP - Cheap Has anybody ever found a cookbook setup for this. I have a pair of 2600's, and the VIC-2E/Ms, and NM-1's, but it seems my IOS version is 12.3 and won't do it, plus, IOS, while fairly intuitive, has so many crankhandles that I get lost in the setup. It seems that while the hardware may be readily available ( a friend sent three 2600's thta were being tossed out) the real issue will be IOS. About 8 years back a friend in DFW had this setup, but as a remote phone line extention. Same basic stuff. And you cannot beat it for reliability. But for site link I use DRIL which is a modified simpleh323 deal. Run it on CF card with a pair of Netier XL-2000 250 mhz computers. I'm also playing with app_rpt. The USB audio interface has issues. But for non-critical (amateur radio) applications, its ok. Maybe overkill for a link. Also trying limey-linux, have my first working build there. Not bad, no moving parts. GeorgeC W2DB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin King kc6...@... wrote: Ok here are some prices for the Cisco solution. Cisco 2600XM router 50 to 200 bucks on eBay depends on what cards might be in router. VIC-2E/M 12 to 40 Bucks on eBay, NM-2V 33 bucks buy now on eBay. This is what you need on each site minimum. If you hooked up with a ham that is a Cisco Jock, you should be able to do each site for less than 200 bucks. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wa5jxy Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:09 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap OK, I have searched the ROIP posts, and I have to say all the posts I have viewed just miss the point of what I am looking for. Yes, there are MANY ROIP commercial product related posts. All What I am looking for is a SIMPLE and CHEAP solution for ROIP for AMATEUR service. OK, I understand the commercial product line and the need for small business solutions (). Raytheon NXU etc. What about the amateur service trying to break into the ROIP solution? I built a P25 repeater for amateur service just because the technology is there. It works and is cheaper than buying a complete P25 commercial repeater. Now I want to build a ROIP interface similar to IRLP and Echolink without a central server owned by someone else. I have the dedicated fiber infrastructure (10GB backbone) in place I can utilize for ROIP. What I need is a schematic so I can build my own ROIP cards for PC or a cheap already built card available on ebay. There must be a Asterisk and cheap card solution out there. Anybody already done this? I have an Asterisk PBX server already built and working. Anybody set up Asterisk for ROIP and what card(s) did you use? I see then for $159 on ebay but I already have MANY parts and can build them cheaper, but still need a schematic or pre-built card. If not, how about starting a discussion to do this? My goal is to link several repeaters via ROIP other than echolink or IRLP. Thanks! Neil WA5JXY Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] wp-639 rexolite
Hi again, In my first post I miswrote a thing or two and much confusion as to my question ensued. Hopefully I've written this more clearly. Thank you to all who responded to my earlier question and my apologies for wasting your time by having you answer the wrong question. I have a wp-639. I'm its at least third owner and don't know its previous history. It's got a factory sticker marked 146.97 / 37. I don't know anyone who currently has the correct equipment locally and I don't have the budget to take it to a radio shop so I've used alternate methods of tuning similar to mentioned on the repeater builder website. I've gotten it tuned to work OK with my repeater on 146.88 / 28 but I'm guessing it could be better. In tuning the pass adjustments, there was a definite sweet spot. Go a quarter or a third of a turn off of that and there was a definite difference. But I didn't find that sweet spot in tuning the reject and I wonder how wide of an adjustment it usually is. What I mean is, for example the pass tuning went from not very good to good to not as good within about one turn of the knob. In tuning the reject, should I be looking for that pattern while moving the rexolite over an inch of travel, a half-inch, two inches or ? So my question is not how to tune it but as I tune it, how much should I expect to have to move the rexolite rods to notice the not good good not good pattern? Or will it even be there? I suppose the question is only to those who have tuned a wp-639 for a standard 600kc split. Someone who hasn't tuned a `639 will be basing their answer on a comparison to something they have tuned, which may not be all that comparable. For the sake of brevity I won't post the method I used to tune it unless someone wants to know it. Again, thanks to those who answered earlier and thanks in advance any who answer this. rj
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: crimping vs soldering types of coax connectors
I wonder what you call not cheap? I paid lots for my soldering station and much less for my crimps ($80.00) as example for coax , the current crimps have done many thousands of connectors and might be replaced before i retire which will mean 2 decades of use . To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: w9xt...@sbcglobal.net Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:01:03 + Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: crimping vs soldering types of coax connectors My experience has been that if you use a high quality cable, high quality connector and crimping dies made specifically for the particular cable and connectors...crimp-on will working very well. It won't be cheap though. I have, when practical, soldered the connector tip to the cable...after crimping, as an added insurance for a positive connection. If done corrctly and with high quality material, I now prefer crimped connections. Dave, W9XTZ _ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsearch%2Fsearch%2Easpx%3Fexec%3Dgo%26tp%3Dq%26gc%3D2%26tr%3D1%26lage%3D18%26uage%3D55%26cl%3D14%26sl%3D0%26dist%3D50%26po%3D1%26do%3D2%26trackingid%3D1046138%26r2s%3D1_t=773166090_r=Hotmail_Endtext_m=EXT
[Repeater-Builder] Help specifications or tuning instructions for WP-747L3 / WP-447L1 cavities
Has anyone seen / modified any Wacom Preselector cavities model WP-747L3 / WP-447L1 for use in the 222 / 224 Amateur Band Split? I have purchased a set of these cavities (they are still in the UPS truck) and I was trying to find any tuning information for them. So far all I can find is some very limited description on the Telwave / Wacom sites for model numbers close to these but not exactly the same. WP-447L2SPECIAL Preselector 220-222 WP-747L6TPCP-22612 Preselector, 800 khz BW 220-222 Any specifications or tuning instructions for the WP-747L3 / WP-447L1 cavities or information from anyone that has successfully adapted these cavities as a repeater duplexer in the amateur band would be appreciated. Thank you, Steve - KA1RCI
Re: [Repeater-Builder] wp-639 rexolite
I have in face tuned a WP-639 and would guess for that freq swing from 146.97 to 146.88 it will be very little movement of the rod assuming the pass tuning is correct. Remember, the rexolite rod is tuning the notch and that notch is relative to the pass setting of the invar rod. It is extremely sharp and has to be moved only very slightly to find the deepest part of the notch. Tune your generator (HT) to the notch frequency (.28) and feed it through the hi-pass section of the duplexer and tune for the null. Be careful that you don't mistakenly tune the low-pass section of the duplexer to pass the high frequency because sometimes you can find a null but not the right one. I would tune it for you for nothing but I have no Idea where you are located and I'm sure there are others who would also if you would give a location so someone could respond. Gary - K7NEY hbbcara wrote: Hi again, In my first post I miswrote a thing or two and much confusion as to my question ensued. Hopefully I've written this more clearly. Thank you to all who responded to my earlier question and my apologies for wasting your time by having you answer the wrong question. I have a wp-639. I'm its at least third owner and don't know its previous history. It's got a factory sticker marked 146.97 / 37. I don't know anyone who currently has the correct equipment locally and I don't have the budget to take it to a radio shop so I've used alternate methods of tuning similar to mentioned on the repeater builder website. I've gotten it tuned to work OK with my repeater on 146.88 / 28 but I'm guessing it could be better. In tuning the pass adjustments, there was a definite sweet spot. Go a quarter or a third of a turn off of that and there was a definite difference. But I didn't find that sweet spot in tuning the reject and I wonder how wide of an adjustment it usually is. What I mean is, for example the pass tuning went from not very good to good to not as good within about one turn of the knob. In tuning the reject, should I be looking for that pattern while moving the rexolite over an inch of travel, a half-inch, two inches or ? So my question is not how to tune it but as I tune it, how much should I expect to have to move the rexolite rods to notice the not good – good – not good pattern? Or will it even be there? I suppose the question is only to those who have tuned a wp-639 for a standard 600kc split. Someone who hasn't tuned a `639 will be basing their answer on a comparison to something they have tuned, which may not be all that comparable. For the sake of brevity I won't post the method I used to tune it unless someone wants to know it. Again, thanks to those who answered earlier and thanks in advance any who answer this. rj Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band
Dave, I have moved about 5 stations that were in Forrest Service use around 417 mHz, and have a few suggestions. Buy a mobile 88 split receiver and don't attempt to change the 77 receiver front end. I modified three of them by removing one quarter turn from each of the helical resonators, and it is just not worth the effort. The mobile 88 split receiver will interchange with your 77 split receiver. The exciter tuned right up, with no changes to any component values on each of the 5 that I moved. If you buy a mobile for the receiver, the exciter will also exchange with your 77 exciter. The 77 split amp works just fine up in the ham band except for the low pass filter on the board with the T/R relay on the output of the amp, if you have one without the T/R relay. Remove the filter cover and parallel a #18 buss wire with the existing wire that connects from the input cap to the output cap across the three shunt caps. This lowers the inductance slightly and will allow you to pass full power to the output. If the amp has a matching circuit - a simple PI Network on the output, be sure to tune it up when you are through with the LPF modification. Don't tune for max power - tune for a null on the reflected power test point provided on the matching board. Not all amps have the matching board, but pay attention if yours has one. None of the other components in the station change with the 77 to 88 split change. In fact, the audio squelch board from a VHF mobile or station will interchange with the 77 you are moving to an 88 split. By all means - buy or trade for an 88 split receiver and don't attempt the quarter turn coil removal in the helicals. It just is not worth the effort to heat the cavity for the heilcals enough to remove the coils and then get them resoldered in the right place. The osc-multiplier board will not go to high side injection like I prefer on a UHF M2. You would have to stay with low side injection, and beware the pitfall in the receive frequencyarea described in a note on the repeater builder site. I had a low side injection repeater operating on 443.9 that had the problem until I changed to high side injection. Good luck on your conversion. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Dave Cochran d...@n0trq.com wrote: From: Dave Cochran d...@n0trq.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 10:05 AM Okay guys, I might be biting off more than I know here, but I've been tasked out to try to get this accomplished for a new fledgling group of hams here. How much effort is really involved in converting a 406-420Mhz Mastr II machine (combination ending in 77) up to the ham band? Need to start learning more somewhere and this seems like a good avenue to take. I'm sure someone must have written up a step by step guide for re-tuning, I just have not found it yet. A point in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks, Dave - N0TRQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Hybrid Ring Duplexer
I helped a buddy check a set of Sinclair VHF Hybrid Ring duplexers a couple of years ago, and was really impressed by the performance of that 4 cavity duplexer. We had +20 dB available at the output of the signal generator and could not see the bottom of the notches on a 80 dB spectrum analyzer. We wound up modulating the signal generator with a 50 kHz wide FM signal to see the sides of the notch, and could tweak the adjustable line to an equal signal either side of the notch with the FM on the signal generator. I estimate the isolation of each half of that duplexer was close to 120 dB and had less than 2 dB insertion loss. Stay after that duplexer, it is a winner, but they are sure a b to tune. Any leakage in the cables to your test equipment will totally ruin the results. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Sun, 7/19/09, de W5DK w...@gvtc.com wrote: From: de W5DK w...@gvtc.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Hybrid Ring Duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 11:58 AM Yesterday, with a buddy, I attempted to tune my first set of hybrid ring duplexers. I have successfully tuned many sets of duplexers and didn’t expect to have any trouble with a minor freq move. I have read and understand the theory behind the design. http://www.repeater -builder. com/antenna/ hybridring. html In practice I saw some unexpected results. My buddy has a new to him HP 8935 (SA/tracking) so we started off using it. I have a HP8921A that we also used. We used good shielded cables, 3db pads x3 and good dummy loads, etc. We started off with a working good on 145.23/144.63 set of duplexers. They were taken off the air and brought to me to be moved up to 146.76/16. I am sure these were many megs up originally and were modified to get down to 145.23. It appears only the termination stub coax lengths were changed and they are longer than the 144-146 instructions suggested as starting points. So I understand the rings/stubs and antenna port for each side may not be *perfect* but they were performing and we are only moving them up a meg or so (towards the original harness freq).. First thing off the bat we looked at the current high pass side and it looked like it only had 45 db separation, the low pass looked better at 65, other wised shaped pretty good. How could they be working good all these years like that? Reading the HP correctly? Yes. H. We used the Sinclair instructions to retune them substituting our tracking gen/SA test gear for the instructions sig gen/receiver. We followed the laborious instructions carefully (course tune/fine tune) and ended up with similar separation numbers on the new freqs. Hmmm, must be something quirky with the 8935, fired up the 8921 and it showed we had even less separation. Half what the 8935 showed. When placed into station service into a dummy load, they didn’t work, I’ll spare you the numbers. Time for a beer. We fiddled with it some more using both service monitors, a talkie and a bird and didn’t move anything much, everything was still peaking/nulling. It has been my experience that with 3db pads on the 3 ports, patch cable lengths to test gear are not critical, I’m beginning to think this style ring system is finicky. After sleeping on it I am thinking we are really close. I’m guessing we are unable to see the ring cancelation/ null/pass with the gear we are using even though we are able to see the pass and reject peaks during our steps? I’m looking for suggestions on what I’m missing and why we can’t we use our expensive test gear to fine tune these freaks? 73 Don W5DK
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band
At 08:05 AM 07/19/09, you wrote: Okay guys, I might be biting off more than I know here, but I've been tasked out to try to get this accomplished for a new fledgling group of hams here. How much effort is really involved in converting a 406-420Mhz Mastr II machine (combination ending in 77) up to the ham band? Need to start learning more somewhere and this seems like a good avenue to take. I'm sure someone must have written up a step by step guide for re-tuning, I just have not found it yet. A point in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks, Dave - N0TRQ Pulling a 406-420 MHz radio 25 MHz up is darn near impossible. On the other hand pulling a 450-460 radio (that the designers were deliberately a little sloppy on the low end) down 10MHz is rather easy and already well documented. If you really want to proceed, however, the instructions boil down to: 1) RX: Remove the front end and the oscillator multipler chain and totally rebuild with 88 series components. 2) TX: Remove the exciter and rebuild with 88 series components. 3) TX: Remove the PA deck and replace all the ceramics with the ones from a 88 series. The easy way: Post a message saying Anybody want to trade an 77 series radio for a equivalent 88 series? The 88 series radios that will pull down a little to 440 are 50 times more common than the 77 series ones that are highly prized for point-to-point links (420-423 MHz range). Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: wp-639 rexolite
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Hoff k7ney...@... wrote: I have in face tuned a WP-639 and would guess for that freq swing from 146.97 to 146.88 it will be very little movement of the rod assuming the pass tuning is correct. Remember, the rexolite rod is tuning the notch and that notch is relative to the pass setting of the invar rod. It is extremely sharp and has to be moved only very slightly to find the deepest part of the notch. Thank you! That is exactly the info I was looking for. Looking at the charts on the spec sheets I suspected it would be relatively sharp and a small amount of movement. I hadn't found the sharp notch yet so before I spent a lot of time looking for something that wasn't there I wanted to ask someone who had been there. So now I know I need to go hunting and do so quite carefully. Again, thank you! [...] I would tune it for you for nothing but I have no Idea where you are located and I'm sure there are others who would also if you would give a location so someone could respond. Thanks for the offer but I don't get to Idaho often. :) I'm in the far North of California, West of Redding. rj - kb6ytd Gary - K7NEY hbbcara wrote: Hi again, In my first post I miswrote a thing or two and much confusion as to my question ensued. Hopefully I've written this more clearly. Thank you to all who responded to my earlier question and my apologies for wasting your time by having you answer the wrong question. I have a wp-639. I'm its at least third owner and don't know its previous history. It's got a factory sticker marked 146.97 / 37. I don't know anyone who currently has the correct equipment locally and I don't have the budget to take it to a radio shop so I've used alternate methods of tuning similar to mentioned on the repeater builder website. I've gotten it tuned to work OK with my repeater on 146.88 / 28 but I'm guessing it could be better. In tuning the pass adjustments, there was a definite sweet spot. Go a quarter or a third of a turn off of that and there was a definite difference. But I didn't find that sweet spot in tuning the reject and I wonder how wide of an adjustment it usually is. What I mean is, for example the pass tuning went from not very good to good to not as good within about one turn of the knob. In tuning the reject, should I be looking for that pattern while moving the rexolite over an inch of travel, a half-inch, two inches or ? So my question is not how to tune it but as I tune it, how much should I expect to have to move the rexolite rods to notice the not good good not good pattern? Or will it even be there? I suppose the question is only to those who have tuned a wp-639 for a standard 600kc split. Someone who hasn't tuned a `639 will be basing their answer on a comparison to something they have tuned, which may not be all that comparable. For the sake of brevity I won't post the method I used to tune it unless someone wants to know it. Again, thanks to those who answered earlier and thanks in advance any who answer this. rj
