Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Nate Duehr]

On Dec 15, 2006, at 8:02 PM, Don Kupferschmidt wrote:

> Hey Nate:
>
> "Most outstanding was Nate Duehr's (WY0X) successful extraction of  
> "Packet" data from deep in the modulation. He, using computer  
> filtration and blanking techniques, removed the DTMF zeros and  
> brought the packet data up by what must have been at least 30 db..  
> He then put this on his server for any and all to try to decode."
>
> Nice work here.  Many thanks to you.  If I ever have a problem with  
> my system, I'm come running to you.
>
> Don, KD9PT

Just way too many hours of listening to packet direct from the  
speaker of a radio back in the "fun" days of Packet, Don... while  
trying to get my horribly-built and soldered baycom style modem  
(baycom didn't exist yet at that point, just a schematic and a dream  
was all any of us had for a cheap way on to packet radio... and a  
pile of parts, a bad soldering iron, and a really dumb guy running  
it... me).

I think I'd recognize a packet burst from Amateur packet in my sleep  
-- after a year or more of having the monitor speaker on, on that  
original packet station.

That was one of my first projects home-brewing anything.  I learned a  
LOT about humility when I had to take it to another ham's house and  
he tore apart my rat's nest, laughed at all my cold solder joints,  
put the thing under a real light on a real workbench (it was  
assembled on a TV tray in a dark room -- who here remembers TV  
trays?!  heh...) and a magnifier, and proceeded to re-solder every  
joint that had taken me an hour or two in about 10 minutes.

Learned what good solder joints look like that night too!  And how  
important it is to block out at least three hours for visiting ANY  
other person's shack... because we weren't there just to fix the  
modem.  We were there to get the Grand Tour, and have some coffee...  
and talk... and, holy cow... what time is it again?!  Man... I gotta  
get up in the morning!  THANKS for the help!!!

Everyone has to start somewhere... I let a lot of the magic smoke out  
of things in that first ham shack.  Also learned how to neutralize  
the tubes of an old HW-101 OVER THE AIR from two different hams one  
night... another lesson learned... telephones sometimes really ARE  
better than radios!  Heh... but the magic smoke stayed in everything  
that night, and the little old HW-101 once again put out power and  
was much happier with its brand new 6146B's!

Other lessons learned from that packet station... even transistor  
switches fail sometimes... and yes, if you live on a high hill, a 1W  
packet station with a Icom 2AT HT as the transmitter WILL tick off  
everyone for 25 or more miles if your silly little modem you built  
locks up in TX and you're out to dinner and working overnights... on  
a Saturday... and they WILL DF your house... and they'll find the  
neighbor with the tower first, and freak him out at 10:30 PM at  
night... and then they'll find your phone number and talk to your  
family members who will gladly walk into the shack and unplug  
*everything* at their urgent request since they know you're at work  
and can't be reached!

(HUGE GRIN...)

But thanks for the kind words.  MANY people here on RB have helped me  
understand and/or learn new things I needed to know about the RF side  
of the systems I [try to] maintain.  We all help where we can.

--
Nate Duehr - WY0X
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Don Kupferschmidt]

Hey Nate:

"Most outstanding was Nate Duehr's (WY0X) successful extraction of "Packet" 
data from deep in the modulation. He, using computer filtration and blanking 
techniques, removed the DTMF zeros and brought the packet data up by what must 
have been at least 30 db.. He then put this on his server for any and all to 
try to decode."

Nice work here.  Many thanks to you.  If I ever have a problem with my system, 
I'm come running to you.

Don, KD9PT

  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Overstreet 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Scott Overstreet 
  Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 7:19 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal





  Hello All

  By this time all of you who have been following and or helping with the 
identification and location of our mystery signal have probably figured that 
something has happened due to the silence from this end. Well, if so, you 
figured rightthe signal quit last Wednesday evening and hasn't been heard 
since.

  To add some details-we made  ---seems like about the fourth contact 
with a related arm of our emergency com. organization that has a  station using 
the large municipal tower that I have mentioned previously as being in the 
approximate center of our Doppler DF convergence. This time, in spite of their 
repeated assurance that all was well within, they agreed to shut down their 
station in total. I also ask that they make contact with other hams in their 
area of their town and particularly those running packet gear of any sort in 
the hope of finding the signal source. In amazing coincidence to when the tower 
station was shut down, the mystery signal quit. Nobody is admitting 
responsibility yet---and the signal has not returned -yet ---in spite of my 
being told that the tower station is all up again.

  Looking back at all that happened in identifying the signal is amazing. It 
started with one of our hams (N6NFI) making a waterfall audio frequency 
spectral analysis of the signal's modulation which identified the presence of a 
100hz. PL tone and the three tone bursts as being DTMF zero's-this 
explained why our repeater was opening and announcing errors. Next, N6NFI made 
a wave file recording and sent it on to all of us locals and one of our guys 
(KR6DD) who was in Maryland on vacation. He analyzed for a while using a 
borrowed computer finally announcing that he thought that he could see some 
buried data---he then ask for another recording with open squelch to be sent to 
him. This was done by N6NFI and I, at this point, put my first message on 
Repeater Builder (I'm a member of this group) offering the wave file for 
identification at AE6EO's server. 

  You are all up on the flurry of RB messages that followed this. Most 
outstanding was Nate Duehr's (WY0X) successful extraction of "Packet" data from 
deep in the modulation. He, using computer filtration and blanking techniques, 
removed the DTMF zeros and brought the packet data up by what must have been at 
least 30 db.. He then put this on his server for any and all to try to decode. 
AE6EO back here went to work on it and determined that the format was 
definitely ham packet format but wasn't able to decode much more than that the 
origination station was coded as a ? mark-the rest of the data was 
interrupted by the DTMF tones.

  About this time, Bill, K6TYO, near here, precisely measured the frequency of 
the mystery signal as being almost dead on channel and stable which together 
with several comments from RB people about some Kenwood and Yaesu radios for 
the ham market being capable of producing the DTMF preamble made it pretty 
clear that we were looking for a radio of this sort with the DTMF preamble 
inappropriately activated that had been some how shifted in memory channel to 
what was in a previous application used to talk to our repeater---what a 
mouthful! ---and--- that was now connected to a packet controller that was set 
up to announce the station's presence every half hour. 

  Now, this and back to the top you have the whole picture to this point. 

  And, finally, I want to thank all who participated ,no mater howyou all 
helped and I and we all appreciate your efforts and suggestions. I would like 
to list all of you but there are to many to do that. Thanks again!

  Scott, N6NXI

  SPECSSouthern Peninsula Emergency Repeater System
  Mountain View, Calif.  145.270,---224.140,440.800




   !DSPAM:1016,458349db934385209328925! 

[Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Scott Overstreet]

Hello All

By this time all of you who have been following and or helping with the 
identification and location of our mystery signal have probably figured that 
something has happened due to the silence from this end. Well, if so, you 
figured rightthe signal quit last Wednesday evening and hasn't been heard 
since.

To add some details-we made  ---seems like about the fourth contact 
with a related arm of our emergency com. organization that has a  station using 
the large municipal tower that I have mentioned previously as being in the 
approximate center of our Doppler DF convergence. This time, in spite of their 
repeated assurance that all was well within, they agreed to shut down their 
station in total. I also ask that they make contact with other hams in their 
area of their town and particularly those running packet gear of any sort in 
the hope of finding the signal source. In amazing coincidence to when the tower 
station was shut down, the mystery signal quit. Nobody is admitting 
responsibility yet---and the signal has not returned -yet ---in spite of my 
being told that the tower station is all up again.

Looking back at all that happened in identifying the signal is amazing. It 
started with one of our hams (N6NFI) making a waterfall audio frequency 
spectral analysis of the signal's modulation which identified the presence of a 
100hz. PL tone and the three tone bursts as being DTMF zero's-this 
explained why our repeater was opening and announcing errors. Next, N6NFI made 
a wave file recording and sent it on to all of us locals and one of our guys 
(KR6DD) who was in Maryland on vacation. He analyzed for a while using a 
borrowed computer finally announcing that he thought that he could see some 
buried data---he then ask for another recording with open squelch to be sent to 
him. This was done by N6NFI and I, at this point, put my first message on 
Repeater Builder (I'm a member of this group) offering the wave file for 
identification at AE6EO's server. 

You are all up on the flurry of RB messages that followed this. Most 
outstanding was Nate Duehr's (WY0X) successful extraction of "Packet" data from 
deep in the modulation. He, using computer filtration and blanking techniques, 
removed the DTMF zeros and brought the packet data up by what must have been at 
least 30 db.. He then put this on his server for any and all to try to decode. 
AE6EO back here went to work on it and determined that the format was 
definitely ham packet format but wasn't able to decode much more than that the 
origination station was coded as a ? mark-the rest of the data was 
interrupted by the DTMF tones.

About this time, Bill, K6TYO, near here, precisely measured the frequency of 
the mystery signal as being almost dead on channel and stable which together 
with several comments from RB people about some Kenwood and Yaesu radios for 
the ham market being capable of producing the DTMF preamble made it pretty 
clear that we were looking for a radio of this sort with the DTMF preamble 
inappropriately activated that had been some how shifted in memory channel to 
what was in a previous application used to talk to our repeater---what a 
mouthful! ---and--- that was now connected to a packet controller that was set 
up to announce the station's presence every half hour. 

Now, this and back to the top you have the whole picture to this point. 

And, finally, I want to thank all who participated ,no mater howyou all 
helped and I and we all appreciate your efforts and suggestions. I would like 
to list all of you but there are to many to do that. Thanks again!

Scott, N6NXI

SPECSSouthern Peninsula Emergency Repeater System
Mountain View, Calif.  145.270,---224.140,440.800

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Max Slover]

In case I confused anybody, this is what I am refering
to with APRS and a 100hz tone ---

VOICE ALERT:  This simply means that you do not turn
the audio down on 
144.39, but instead leave it at high volume and then
simply set CTCSS 
tone 100 to mute the speaker.  This way, you dont hear
any packets, but 
ANYONE can call you with VOICE on 144.39 to alert you
by using PL 100.  
You will rarely use this, and only use it to tell
someone to QSY to another 
voice channel, but it is one way of assuring that
ANYONE running APRS in 
simplex range of you can ALWAYS be contacted with a
voice call...

You wont hear any  packets except maybe one or two
when another VOICE-
ALERT mobile is in range (about 3 miles or so).  But
even then, he is only 
beaconing once every 2 minutes and so it is not
bothersome at all..  
In fact, it is nice to hear when someone is nearby! 
Its like a free radar
for other mobile APRS operators that are in simplex
range AND listening.

--- 

--- Max Slover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Doh, this just hit me. It would most definitely be
> an
> APRS setup due to the 100hz subtone. In APRS you set
> the subtone to 100 so you can do voice alert. Man,
> why
> didn't I think of that part when this was first
> mentioned. 
> 
> Sorry for being a bit late on that but I figured I'd
> toss my 2 cents on this. 
> 
> Max...


Public Information Officer -- St. Louis & Suburban Radio Club
K0AZV - Amateur
WPWH-650 GMRS 
St. Louis County ARES
St. Ann MO EM48tr

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Chuck Kimball]

The other way you could help rule out anything on that tower would be to 
get a list of the transmitters there and listen to their frequency and 
compare when you're hearing the interference.  Make take a day or two to 
get through them all, but that should help.

i.e.  Scanner or extra receiver tuned to example 151.085 at the :53 
transmission, nothing heard and no key up during that time, move on to 
the next frequency and listen at the :23 transmission, etc.  If the 
tower owner knows they are running a data specific type system that 
would be the one to start with.  If you don't want to bug him again, 
start with a search of the FCC database for those coordinates.
http://www.fcc.gov   click on search, etc.  You can enter the lat/lon 
and a radius around and list out the transmitters.

Chuck
n0nhj

Scott Overstreet wrote:
> Hello All
>  
> Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my call for help in 
> identifing our "Mystery Signal"--all of your comments and especially 
> the signal analysis work done by Rodger, Nate, Joe and others are 
> helping with our task. Please keep up the effort as we have not found 
> our signal yet.
>  
> Preliminary Doppler DF work has us surounding a large scale municiple 
> tower with what we have labled our area of uncertainitya half mile 
> diameter circle or so. Distant vectors from clear areas converge there 
> but close in vectors disperce in almost all directions apparently due to 
> reflections from tall buildings, cars, metel doors, roofs etc.. We are 
> now rounding up a team of experienced DF'ers with other techniques. I 
> have succeded in making contact with the guy that is responsible for the 
> Motorola gear on the towerhe says that our signal isn't comming from 
> any of his stuff but that there is other gear in the radio room and that 
> he will look it over while monitoring by service monitor---a start there.
>  
>  From your responses so far, it sounds like we may well be looking for a 
> piece of ham gear that is mistakenly on our repeater inputwith this 
> we will get back into the neighborhoods around the tower for a new look 
> and spread the word through the packet guys.
>  
> Again, many thanks to all of you-I'll keep you informed.
>  
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Max Slover]

Doh, this just hit me. It would most definitely be an
APRS setup due to the 100hz subtone. In APRS you set
the subtone to 100 so you can do voice alert. Man, why
didn't I think of that part when this was first
mentioned. 

Sorry for being a bit late on that but I figured I'd
toss my 2 cents on this. 

Max...



Public Information Officer -- St. Louis & Suburban Radio Club
K0AZV - Amateur
WPWH-650 GMRS 
St. Louis County ARES
St. Ann MO EM48tr

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Nate Duehr]

Kris Kirby wrote:

> If I knew that it wouldn't take 30 minutes to reboot and re-establish 
> commo (and life-threatening commo wasn't going over the system), I'd say 
> ask if he can down his system for a minute when the interference in 
> occuring. He'd probably say no, but were I in his shoes, I'd be open to 
> the idea nonetheless...

It's pretty obvious this is likely just an on-frequency ham station with 
a packet TNC or PC sound card hooked to a radio that does 
three-DTMF-tone paging set to the repeater frequency.

I wouldn't go bothering the other local transmitter owners -- all that 
will do is create a situation where when you find the ham with the 
misconfigured radio, you'll get to blame it all on "just another dumb 
ham" in front of non-ham RF professionals.

I tried to fire up some soundcard packet programs, but wasn't able to 
(yet) copy any of the packet from the filtered audio.

Nate

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

Darn good idea  wish I'd though to suggest it. If you've never done a
text database search there, start here plugging in just the zip code:

If the target area covers more than one zip code you will have to do 
a separate run for each one.


BTW that's the page that is the only bookmark for QRZ on my system
as you can plug in a callsign on the upper left or any search text in
the second field.

Mike

At 12:22 PM 12/13/06, you wrote:

Try doing a search on qrz for hams in that area.  Address in hand go sniffing.


73, Shanon KA8SPW

Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello All

Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my call for help in 
identifing our "Mystery Signal"--all of your comments and 
especially the signal analysis work done by Rodger, Nate, Joe and 
others are helping with our task. Please keep up the effort as we 
have not found our signal yet.


Preliminary Doppler DF work has us surounding a large scale 
municiple tower with what we have labled our area of 
uncertainitya half mile diameter circle or so. Distant vectors 
from clear areas converge there but close in vectors disperce in 
almost all directions apparently due to reflections from tall 
buildings, cars, metel doors, roofs etc.. We are now rounding up a 
team of experienced DF'ers with other techniques. I have succeded in 
making contact with the guy that is responsible for the Motorola 
gear on the towerhe says that our signal isn't comming from any 
of his stuff but that there is other gear in the radio room and that 
he will look it over while monitoring by service monitor---a start there.


From your responses so far, it sounds like we may well be looking 
for a piece of ham gear that is mistakenly on our repeater 
inputwith this we will get back into the neighborhoods around 
the tower for a new look and spread the word through the packet guys.


Again, many thanks to all of you-I'll keep you informed.

Scott

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Kris Kirby]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Scott Overstreet wrote:
> Preliminary Doppler DF work has us surounding a large scale municiple 
> tower with what we have labled our area of uncertainitya half mile 
> diameter circle or so. Distant vectors from clear areas converge there 
> but close in vectors disperce in almost all directions apparently due 
> to reflections from tall buildings, cars, metel doors, roofs etc.. We 
> are now rounding up a team of experienced DF'ers with other 
> techniques. I have succeded in making contact with the guy that is 
> responsible for the Motorola gear on the towerhe says that our 
> signal isn't comming from any of his stuff but that there is other 
> gear in the radio room and that he will look it over while monitoring 
> by service monitor---a start there.

Does he have circulators on all his transmitters? Did you check for 
mixing products coming out of his transmitters? 

If I knew that it wouldn't take 30 minutes to reboot and re-establish 
commo (and life-threatening commo wasn't going over the system), I'd say 
ask if he can down his system for a minute when the interference in 
occuring. He'd probably say no, but were I in his shoes, I'd be open to 
the idea nonetheless...

--
Kris Kirby
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Shanon Herron]

Try doing a search on qrz for hams in that area.  Address in hand go sniffing.
   
   
  73, Shanon KA8SPW

Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hello All
   
  Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my call for help in 
identifing our "Mystery Signal"--all of your comments and especially the 
signal analysis work done by Rodger, Nate, Joe and others are helping with our 
task. Please keep up the effort as we have not found our signal yet.
   
  Preliminary Doppler DF work has us surounding a large scale municiple tower 
with what we have labled our area of uncertainitya half mile diameter 
circle or so. Distant vectors from clear areas converge there but close in 
vectors disperce in almost all directions apparently due to reflections from 
tall buildings, cars, metel doors, roofs etc.. We are now rounding up a team of 
experienced DF'ers with other techniques. I have succeded in making contact 
with the guy that is responsible for the Motorola gear on the towerhe says 
that our signal isn't comming from any of his stuff but that there is other 
gear in the radio room and that he will look it over while monitoring by 
service monitor---a start there.
   
  From your responses so far, it sounds like we may well be looking for a piece 
of ham gear that is mistakenly on our repeater inputwith this we will get 
back into the neighborhoods around the tower for a new look and spread the word 
through the packet guys.
   
  Again, many thanks to all of you-I'll keep you informed.
   
  Scott
 

[Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Scott Overstreet]

Hello All

Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my call for help in identifing 
our "Mystery Signal"--all of your comments and especially the signal 
analysis work done by Rodger, Nate, Joe and others are helping with our task. 
Please keep up the effort as we have not found our signal yet.

Preliminary Doppler DF work has us surounding a large scale municiple tower 
with what we have labled our area of uncertainitya half mile diameter 
circle or so. Distant vectors from clear areas converge there but close in 
vectors disperce in almost all directions apparently due to reflections from 
tall buildings, cars, metel doors, roofs etc.. We are now rounding up a team of 
experienced DF'ers with other techniques. I have succeded in making contact 
with the guy that is responsible for the Motorola gear on the towerhe says 
that our signal isn't comming from any of his stuff but that there is other 
gear in the radio room and that he will look it over while monitoring by 
service monitor---a start there.

>From your responses so far, it sounds like we may well be looking for a piece 
>of ham gear that is mistakenly on our repeater inputwith this we will get 
>back into the neighborhoods around the tower for a new look and spread the 
>word through the packet guys.

Again, many thanks to all of you-I'll keep you informed.

Scott

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Joe]

 Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Scott,
> 
> Here's a highly filtered version that MAYBE a TNC or a sound-card packet 
> program could be fed with the copy the packet.

Verrry interesting!  If I get a chace tonight I'll try to decode the packet.  
My guess now is that it is a mix of two signals, one being a packet signal and 
the other using the Kenwood DTMF signalling format.

I used the Kenwood DTMF signalling on my repeater for years.  When someone used 
the phone patch the repeater sends 000 before dialing the number.  I used this 
to open the squelch on my TM-741A here at the house so that I can listen for 
abuse of the phone patch.  It worked quite well in the past, but use of the 
phone patch has fallen off over the years.  I don't remember the last time it 
was used.

Why someone would be using the Kenwood signalling is the big question.

73, Joe, K1ike

  
> 
> It's very obviously standard Bell 202 packet tones once you high and low 
> pass filter the crud out of it, and take out the offending DTMF as much 
> as possible.
> 
> http://www.natetech.com/files/Signal_3-filtered.wav
> 
> I left the clicks in (zero-crossings from the DTMF generator sending the 
> zeros) as I'm not a packet expert and couldn't tell you if chopping 
> those out in the middle of the packet waveform would screw up the timing 
> or blow away the CRC of the packet.
> 
> In fact, it sounds like the end of the packet might be chopped off, so 
> you might need to put whatever's copying it into a "ignore CRC error 
> correction" mode and just go for the raw stuff and see if you can make 
> anything out of it.
> 
> Nate WY0X
> 
> p.s. I used a free program called Audacity and some free filters found 
> on the Net to hack on the original WAV file you sent.  I may have 
> over-done it a bit here, but man is that packet audio weak in that 
> original file!  I amplified this quite a bit, which added noise, and 
> then low-pass filtered off the high end to get rid of the hiss.  I also 
> chopped the white noise off the front and back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[JOHN MACKEY]

I wonder if it could be something mixing with a radar swing?

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:24:04 PM CST
From: "Scott Overstreet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Cc: "Scott Overstreet"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Dave Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

> Hello All
> 
> An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670
mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The signal is
approximately one second in durationopens with 100 hz. PL (which continues
throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession and then
possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats exactly two
times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions. This goes on
continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our area is between
urban and big city and the signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide
area using only an HT. 
> 
> A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
> 
> http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav
> 
> using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
> 
> We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its
origin
> 
> What is it ? 
> 
> Thanks--
> 
> Scott, N6NXI
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Nate Duehr]

Scott,

Here's a highly filtered version that MAYBE a TNC or a sound-card packet 
program could be fed with the copy the packet.

It's very obviously standard Bell 202 packet tones once you high and low 
pass filter the crud out of it, and take out the offending DTMF as much 
as possible.

http://www.natetech.com/files/Signal_3-filtered.wav

I left the clicks in (zero-crossings from the DTMF generator sending the 
zeros) as I'm not a packet expert and couldn't tell you if chopping 
those out in the middle of the packet waveform would screw up the timing 
or blow away the CRC of the packet.

In fact, it sounds like the end of the packet might be chopped off, so 
you might need to put whatever's copying it into a "ignore CRC error 
correction" mode and just go for the raw stuff and see if you can make 
anything out of it.

Nate WY0X

p.s. I used a free program called Audacity and some free filters found 
on the Net to hack on the original WAV file you sent.  I may have 
over-done it a bit here, but man is that packet audio weak in that 
original file!  I amplified this quite a bit, which added noise, and 
then low-pass filtered off the high end to get rid of the hiss.  I also 
chopped the white noise off the front and back.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Brett Hornidge]

Hi Guys.
Just to throw me 2 cents worth it may be Yaesu / Vertex "ARTS".
It is a new polling range finder feature.
I have contacted them re the system and the tx and rx processes that are 
involved but to no avail as yet.
It looks like a tricky one to find.
Cheers
Brett

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 
> I can remember getting my Yaesu FT-5100 into some strange mode that
> sounded exactly like that every time I keyed down. Three DTMF digits
> (I never knew which ones) but the tones did not change between digits.
> Sounded exactly like your wave file.
> 
> 73 - Jim W5ZIT
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:dcflux%40gmail.com>
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal
> 
> Didn't Kenwood radios have a DTSS system? My old TH-77 did, The default
> code was also "000". Although I have never heard of a radio just
> beaconing.
> 
> On 12/12/06, Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:scott%40becklawfirm.com>> wrote: Dave---
>  
> That is open squelch (White Noise) before and after the approximately
> one second presence of the signalthe data, if there is any, is
> thought to follow the third tone and finishes before the signal
> carrier, with PL, goes away.
>  
> Scott
>  
>  
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Dave Schmidt
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal
> 
>  
> 
> In the wav file is that white noise or data bursts before and after
> the dtmf?
>  
> Dave / N9NLU
>  
> 
>  
> On 12/12/06, Jaime <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:cgold1%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a digital signal. Could it be one of those new d-star rigs
> that some one has activated the autodial feature on the dtmf pad too?
> The DTMF sounds like it is coming from an autodial feature. My HT has
> this feature and so does my mobile rig.
> 
> Jaime-KA3NXN
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: Scott Overstreet < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:scott%40becklawfirm.com> >
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: Scott Overstreet < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:scott%40becklawfirm.com>>; Dave Platt <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:dplatt%40radagast.org>>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:10:08 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal
> 
> Hello All
>  
> An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input
> (144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The
> signal is approximately one second in duration opens with 100 hz.
> PL (which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in
> rapid succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data.
> The signal repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in
> between transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption
> or apparent change. Our area is between urban and big city and the
> signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.
>  
> A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
>  
> http://www.radagast .org/~dplatt/ hamradio/ Signal_3. wav
>  
> using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
>  
> We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its
> origin
>  
> What is it ?
>  
> Thanks--
>  
> Scott, N6NXI
>  
>  
> 
> 
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
> 
> __
> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and
> industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[DCFluX]

With the time component factored with the packet, I would suspect
APRS. Quite possibly the radio that was the APRS' Transmitter has your
pair as channel 1 in the memory and some how got the DTSS portion
switched on as well. This would account for the DTMF burst as the APRS
controller is not waiting for the DTMF to be sent before the burst. If
you can filter the tones to the point where the packet will decode you
should get Lat, Long and a callsign.

On 12/12/06, Roger Grady <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 04:41 PM 12/12/2006, Roger Grady wrote:
>
> >Sounds like very weak packet bursts to me.
>
> I looked at the sample with a waveform editor (Audacity) - there's
> definitely data riding on the 100Hz tone, at around 5-10% of the 100Hz
> deviation. It looks like it continues during the DTMF bursts also but it's
> hard to tell for sure visually.
>
> The data looks like two-tone, low tone is probably 1300, high tone between
> 2000-2100. The higher frequency is harder to measure because there aren't
> as many cycles of it in a row as the lower. The data appears to start with
> a pilot of 7 cycles of low tone, followed by 2 cycles of high tone, the
> pilot lasts for just under 180ms.
>
> After the 3rd DTMF burst, there's another 50ms burst of something more
> complex. It may be a continuation of or another DTMF burst, coupled with
> the two-tone data but the overall level of the signal is higher, and the
> two-tone is much much higher than before.
>
> All in all, an interesting signal. I hope somebody recognizes it as it's
> got my curiousity aroused.
>
> Roger Grady  K9OPO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Eric Lemmon]

Scott,

I have had only two instances, in a five-year period, of a strange
"data-like" signal showing up on one of the repeaters I manage.  One was on
the input, and the other was on the output.

The rogue signal on the input turned out to be an APRS modem that was
transmitting in beacon mode.  The owner had inadvertently bumped the channel
selector knob on his mobile radio, and it was merrily chatting away on my
repeater instead of on the APRS simplex channel.  One of the local APRS
buffs decoded the signal, and we contacted the owner who quickly reset his
radio.

The rogue signal on the output turned out to be a malfunctioning SCADA
(Supervisory Control and Data Automation) base station owned by a petroleum
company.  Their oil fields were spread out over many miles, and a SCADA
radio at each wellhead and valve box was polled by a base station at regular
intervals.  The base station was a low-tier commercial mobile radio that had
developed a spurious signal at a subharmonic of its licensed carrier
frequency.  Unfortunately, that subharmonic and spurious signal was right on
my repeater's output.  Once the FCC got into the act, the malfunctioning
radio was identified and replaced.

The sudden appearance of your interfering signal is significant.  I listened
to the sound file, but I can't identify it.  It may take a Doppler direction
finder to track down the source.  I tend to agree with the other posters
that the signal is probably not malicious.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Overstreet
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:10 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Scott Overstreet; Dave Platt
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

Hello All
 
An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670
MHz) of our repeater. Using a five kHz-wide FM detector---The signal is
approximately one second in durationopens with 100 Hz PL (which
continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession
and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats
exactly two times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions.
This goes on continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our area
is between urban and big city and the signal is strong enough to be heard
over a wide area using only an HT. 
 
A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
 
http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav
<http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav> 
 
using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
 
We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its
origin
 
What is it ? 
 
Thanks--
 
Scott, N6NXI

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[w5zit]

I can remember getting my Yaesu FT-5100 into some strange mode that 
sounded exactly like that every time I keyed down.  Three DTMF digits 
(I never knew which ones) but the tones did not change between digits.  
Sounded exactly like your wave file.

73 - Jim  W5ZIT

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

Didn't Kenwood radios have a DTSS system? My old TH-77 did, The default 
code was also "000". Although I have never heard of a radio just 
beaconing.



On 12/12/06, Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave---
 
That is open squelch (White Noise) before and after the approximately 
one second presence of the signalthe data, if there is any, is 
thought to follow the third tone and finishes before the signal 
carrier, with PL, goes away.
 
Scott
 
 
 
- Original Message -
From: Dave Schmidt
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

 


In the wav file is that white noise or data bursts before and after 
the dtmf?
 
Dave / N9NLU
 


 
On 12/12/06, Jaime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Sounds like a digital signal. Could it be one of those new d-star rigs 
that some one has activated the autodial feature on the dtmf pad too? 
The DTMF sounds like it is coming from an autodial feature. My HT has 
this feature and so does my mobile rig.

Jaime-KA3NXN

- Original Message 
From: Scott Overstreet < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Scott Overstreet < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Dave Platt < 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:10:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal



Hello All
 
An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input 
(144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The 
signal is approximately one second in duration opens with 100 hz. 
PL (which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in 
rapid succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. 
The signal repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in 
between transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption 
or apparent change. Our area is between urban and big city and the 
signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.
 
A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
 
http://www.radagast .org/~dplatt/ hamradio/ Signal_3. wav
 
using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
 
We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its 
origin
 
What is it ?
 
Thanks--
 
Scott, N6NXI
 
 







Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.





























Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and 
industry-leading spam and email virus protection.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Roger Grady]

At 04:41 PM 12/12/2006, Roger Grady wrote:

>Sounds like very weak packet bursts to me.

I looked at the sample with a waveform editor (Audacity) - there's 
definitely data riding on the 100Hz tone, at around 5-10% of the 100Hz 
deviation. It looks like it continues during the DTMF bursts also but it's 
hard to tell for sure visually.

The data looks like two-tone, low tone is probably 1300, high tone between 
2000-2100. The higher frequency is harder to measure because there aren't 
as many cycles of it in a row as the lower. The data appears to start with 
a pilot of 7 cycles of low tone, followed by 2 cycles of high tone, the 
pilot lasts for just under 180ms.

After the 3rd DTMF burst, there's another 50ms burst of something more 
complex. It may be a continuation of or another DTMF burst, coupled with 
the two-tone data but the overall level of the signal is higher, and the 
two-tone is much much higher than before.

All in all, an interesting signal. I hope somebody recognizes it as it's 
got my curiousity aroused.

Roger Grady  K9OPO

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Nate Duehr]

Nate Duehr wrote:

> You could also just start announcing around on various repeaters that 
> you've figured that it's someone's packet station with a misconfigured 
> radio, and maybe the person with the "new" packet station they just 
> hooked up will pay attention and see that their radio is transmitting.

p.s. You could listen for any users with three DTMF tones on their 
beginning of their transmissions too -- that would be your guy... if 
it's a bench radio and they are just monitoring the repeater with it... 
maybe once in a while they also grab the mic and talk.

Nate WY0X

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Mike Besemer]

I'm waiting with bated breath to see how this one comes out!  (It's better
than watching CSI!)  Whatever it is, I'm amazed that the timing is so
precise, especially if it's not a commercial station of some sort.  Of
course, I guess if it were a PC tied to some sort of packet station, and the
PC was set to update the clock at regular (and frequent) intervals, the
timing may be pretty good.

 

Can't wait for the next installment!

 

-- de WM4B

Mike

Kathleen, GA

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:18 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Scott Overstreet; Dave Platt
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

 

Scott Overstreet wrote:
> Hello All
> 
> An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input 
> (144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The 
> signal is approximately one second in durationopens with 100 hz. PL 
> (which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid 
> succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. The 
> signal repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in 
> between transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption or 
> apparent change. Our area is between urban and big city and the signal 
> is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.
> 
> A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
> 
> http://www.radagast
<http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav>
.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav
> 
> using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
> 
> We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its 
> origin
> 
> What is it ?
> 
> Thanks--
> 
> Scott, N6NXI

Scott,

After someone else mentioned packet, I cranked up the audio real high 
and listened closer.

It sounds like a bog-standard packet station (1200 bps) with a radio 
(Kenwood or Yaesu) with the DTMF paging function turned on. The default 
in the Kenwood's is "000" if I remember correctly for DTMF paging/alerting.

If you listen real hard with the audio cranked up on good speakers, you 
can hear packet "transmitter warm-up" tones and a packet burst behind 
the DTMF.

The radio is sending the DTMF over the top, muting the packet audio... 
but not quite enough to completely cover it up.

I bet if you could filter out 941 Hz and 1336 Hz and then amplify that 
file a *whole* lot, you could probably "copy" the packet burst.

Of course, you might go through all that trouble and find it's set to 
"NOCALL". Ugh.

Let's see... what else could you try... if it's got NOCALL in it?

You could try to force it to transmit by trying to digipeat through the 
various default digipeater names if their software responds to those... 
like the APRS "WIDE" name... and see if their transmitter responds to 
those.

Just fire up a packet station on your repeater input and try a few of 
the common digipeater names built into various software and TNC's... a 
packet oriented group would know all of these.

If you could find a way to get it to transmit, even if you can't copy 
the packet, at least you could DF it easier. Or maybe you'd get the 
ham's attention if you hammered on it for a while.

I bet it's someone's APRS software on a PC connected to a radio that 
either was bumped or purposely tuned to your repeater frequency that 
they monitor through or that they left a memory channel in... and then 
somehow they got the DTMF paging turned on too. That or a TNC-based 
digi that the radio whacked out a bit on... or someone bumped. You 
could ask the local packet gurus if anyone they're used to seeing fell 
off the air recently... something that used to beacon at :23 and :53. 
Maybe some packet guy keeps his logging turned on around there, and you 
can go back to a date before you started hearing it on the repeater input.

You could also just start announcing around on various repeaters that 
you've figured that it's someone's packet station with a misconfigured 
radio, and maybe the person with the "new" packet station they just 
hooked up will pay attention and see that their radio is transmitting.

Nate WY0X

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Nate Duehr]

Scott Overstreet wrote:
> Hello All
>  
> An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input 
> (144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The 
> signal is approximately one second in durationopens with 100 hz. PL 
> (which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid 
> succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. The 
> signal repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in 
> between transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption or 
> apparent change. Our area is between urban and big city and the signal 
> is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.
>  
> A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
>  
> http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav
>  
> using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
>  
> We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its 
> origin
>  
> What is it ?
>  
> Thanks--
>  
> Scott, N6NXI

Scott,

After someone else mentioned packet, I cranked up the audio real high 
and listened closer.

It sounds like a bog-standard packet station (1200 bps) with a radio 
(Kenwood or Yaesu) with the DTMF paging function turned on.  The default 
in the Kenwood's is "000" if I remember correctly for DTMF paging/alerting.

If you listen real hard with the audio cranked up on good speakers, you 
can hear packet "transmitter warm-up" tones and a packet burst behind 
the DTMF.

The radio is sending the DTMF over the top, muting the packet audio... 
but not quite enough to completely cover it up.

I bet if you could filter out 941 Hz and 1336 Hz and then amplify that 
file a *whole* lot, you could probably "copy" the packet burst.

Of course, you might go through all that trouble and find it's set to 
"NOCALL".  Ugh.

Let's see... what else could you try... if it's got NOCALL in it?

You could try to force it to transmit by trying to digipeat through the 
various default digipeater names if their software responds to those... 
like the APRS "WIDE" name... and see if their transmitter responds to 
those.

Just fire up a packet station on your repeater input and try a few of 
the common digipeater names built into various software and TNC's... a 
packet oriented group would know all of these.

If you could find a way to get it to transmit, even if you can't copy 
the packet, at least you could DF it easier.  Or maybe you'd get the 
ham's attention if you hammered on it for a while.

I bet it's someone's APRS software on a PC connected to a radio that 
either was bumped or purposely tuned to your repeater frequency that 
they monitor through or that they left a memory channel in... and then 
somehow they got the DTMF paging turned on too.  That or a TNC-based 
digi that the radio whacked out a bit on... or someone bumped.  You 
could ask the local packet gurus if anyone they're used to seeing fell 
off the air recently... something that used to beacon at :23 and :53. 
Maybe some packet guy keeps his logging turned on around there, and you 
can go back to a date before you started hearing it on the repeater input.

You could also just start announcing around on various repeaters that 
you've figured that it's someone's packet station with a misconfigured 
radio, and maybe the person with the "new" packet station they just 
hooked up will pay attention and see that their radio is transmitting.

Nate WY0X

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Scott Overstreet]

Hello Don and All

Answering Dons questions plus a little:

The presence of a 100 hz. PL component was suspected as that is the PL that we 
use and the signal reliablely opened us. Three DTMF zeros decoded properly but 
as they didn't mean anything to our controller, it announced an error-this 
is what got us looking into the situation. The signal was then run through a 
"waterfall" audio analysis program it identified a 100 Hz PL component as 
well as the components of the DTMF "zeros" and maybe some data.

1. The answer would be no in that it was properly opening in response to the 
100 Hz PL tone. The last thing I want to do is change our PL tonewe have 
over 150 registered users of our three emergency services repeaters all using 
100 Hz.

2. The signal repeats at 23 min. + 30 seconds and 53 min. + 30 seconds. It is 
clearly controlled by a good clock. We have done some DF work and have more to 
do. So far, we are suspicious of a large municipal tower in our area-we 
have just made contact with responsible people there but so far have only 
gotten -"Its not us" responses. Definitely more to do there.

At this point we don't think that we are a jammer's target---we haven't been 
bothered for a long long time and this signal is to unusually technical to be a 
jammer-it looks like a three digit announcer or data reporter of some sort 
to meI wouldn't normally worry about it as we have simply made the repeater 
immune to it with a kerchunk first opening delay timer but until I know just 
what is bothering us, I'm worried about it as it is strong enough to wipe us 
out if it ever gets stuck on or a lot more active.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Don Kupferschmidt 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal



  Scott,

  Some questions and comments.

  I listened to the audio clip.  It sounds like it's being generated by some 
type of automatic device.  Your post (below) states that you detect 100 hz PL 
and three DTMF zeros.

  1.  Can you put the machine on another PL in full CTCSS receive?  Does the 
machine go into repeat mode at that point when the offending signal is received?
  2.  The signal repeats exactly two times an hour.  What time exactly?  Is it 
constantly there, say at 10 and 40 minutes past the hour?  Are you able to DF 
it?

  If you can program the machine to another PL frequency, and, when placed in 
full CTCSS receive the signal is still present, then I would have to believe 
that someone may be interfering.  If it doesn't follow the new PL frequency, 
it's got to be something else.

  I had an interesting situation a number of years ago with my machine.  My 
neighbor, who is probably one of the nicest people on earth, bought himself a 
"Christmas gift".  It was a Bearcat scanner.  Sure enough, the interference 
started just prior to Christmas day and ended just after the holidays.  (He was 
a snow bird).  It started back up in late spring, when he returned from the 
south.  Couldn't figure it out until one day he came over asking me what were 
the local PD / sheriff frequencies.  A light came on in my head.

  You know the rest of the story.

  Keep us informed.

  Don, KD9PT

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Overstreet 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Cc: Scott Overstreet ; Dave Platt 
    Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal


Hello All

An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670 
mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The signal is 
approximately one second in durationopens with 100 hz. PL (which continues 
throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession and then 
possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats exactly two 
times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions. This goes on 
continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our area is between urban 
and big city and the signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using 
only an HT. 

A wave file of the mystery signal is at:

http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav

using an FM detector with wide open squelch.

We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its 
origin

What is it ? 

Thanks--

Scott, N6NXI


!DSPAM:1016,457f01de530501073714974! 

   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Don Kupferschmidt]

Scott,

Some questions and comments.

I listened to the audio clip.  It sounds like it's being generated by some type 
of automatic device.  Your post (below) states that you detect 100 hz PL and 
three DTMF zeros.

1.  Can you put the machine on another PL in full CTCSS receive?  Does the 
machine go into repeat mode at that point when the offending signal is received?
2.  The signal repeats exactly two times an hour.  What time exactly?  Is it 
constantly there, say at 10 and 40 minutes past the hour?  Are you able to DF 
it?

If you can program the machine to another PL frequency, and, when placed in 
full CTCSS receive the signal is still present, then I would have to believe 
that someone may be interfering.  If it doesn't follow the new PL frequency, 
it's got to be something else.

I had an interesting situation a number of years ago with my machine.  My 
neighbor, who is probably one of the nicest people on earth, bought himself a 
"Christmas gift".  It was a Bearcat scanner.  Sure enough, the interference 
started just prior to Christmas day and ended just after the holidays.  (He was 
a snow bird).  It started back up in late spring, when he returned from the 
south.  Couldn't figure it out until one day he came over asking me what were 
the local PD / sheriff frequencies.  A light came on in my head.

You know the rest of the story.

Keep us informed.

Don, KD9PT

  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Overstreet 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Cc: Scott Overstreet ; Dave Platt 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 1:10 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal


  Hello All

  An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670 
mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The signal is 
approximately one second in durationopens with 100 hz. PL (which continues 
throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession and then 
possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats exactly two 
times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions. This goes on 
continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our area is between urban 
and big city and the signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using 
only an HT. 

  A wave file of the mystery signal is at:

  http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav

  using an FM detector with wide open squelch.

  We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its origin

  What is it ? 

  Thanks--

  Scott, N6NXI


   !DSPAM:1016,457f01de530501073714974! 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[DCFluX]

Didn't Kenwood radios have a DTSS system? My old TH-77 did, The default code
was also "000". Although I have never heard of a radio just beaconing.

On 12/12/06, Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Dave---

That is open squelch (White Noise) before and after the approximately one
second presence of the signalthe data, if there is any, is thought to
follow the third tone and finishes before the signal carrier, with PL, goes
away.

Scott




- Original Message -
*From:* Dave Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:02 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal



In the wav file is that white noise or data bursts before and after
the dtmf?

Dave / N9NLU




On 12/12/06, Jaime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Sounds like a digital signal. Could it be one of those new d-star
> rigs that some one has activated the autodial feature on the dtmf pad too?
> The DTMF sounds like it is coming from an autodial feature. My HT has this
> feature and so does my mobile rig.
>
> Jaime-KA3NXN
>
> - Original Message 
> From: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Dave Platt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:10:08 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal
>
>  Hello All
>
> An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (
> 144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The
> signal is approximately one second in duration opens with 100 hz. PL
> (which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid
> succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal
> repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in between
> transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption or apparent
> change. Our area is between urban and big city and the signal is strong
> enough to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.
>
> A wave file of the mystery signal is at:
>
> http://www.radagast .org/~dplatt/ hamradio/ Signal_3. 
wav<http://www.radagast.org/%7Edplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav>
>
> using an FM detector with wide open squelch.
>
> We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its
> origin
>
> What is it ?
>
> Thanks--
>
> Scott, N6NXI
>
>
>
>
> --
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! 
Answers<http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>.
> Try it now.
>
>
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Roger Grady]

At 03:02 PM 12/12/2006, Dave Schmidt wrote:

>In the wav file is that white noise or data bursts before and after 
>the dtmf?

Sounds like very weak packet bursts to me.

Roger Grady  K9OPO

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Scott Overstreet]

Dave---

That is open squelch (White Noise) before and after the approximately one 
second presence of the signalthe data, if there is any, is thought to 
follow the third tone and finishes before the signal carrier, with PL, goes 
away.

Scott



  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Schmidt 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal



  In the wav file is that white noise or data bursts before and after the 
dtmf?

  Dave / N9NLU



   
  On 12/12/06, Jaime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Sounds like a digital signal. Could it be one of those new d-star rigs that 
some one has activated the autodial feature on the dtmf pad too? The DTMF 
sounds like it is coming from an autodial feature. My HT has this feature and 
so does my mobile rig. 

Jaime-KA3NXN


- Original Message 
From: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Dave Platt < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:10:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal



Hello All

An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670 
mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The signal is 
approximately one second in duration opens with 100 hz. PL (which continues 
throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession and then 
possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats exactly two 
times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions. This goes on 
continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our area is between urban 
and big city and the signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using 
only an HT. 

A wave file of the mystery signal is at:

http://www.radagast .org/~dplatt/ hamradio/ Signal_3. wav

using an FM detector with wide open squelch.

We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its 
origin

What is it ? 

Thanks--

Scott, N6NXI







Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. 





   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

Doesn't sound like anything I've heard before, but here's
an old T-hunters trick to use when it's full quieting on
your sniffer receiver: switch to the third harmonic, in your
case 434.01
I had a very strong signal that was overloading my sniffer
about a mile from the source and switching to the 3rd
harmonic let me get to about 1,000 feet.
Then going to the 800mhz frequency let me get to his front
door at that time I had a handheld scanner that would
do that

For want it's worth, SoCal uses 146.565 as a T-hunt freq,
the harmonic frequencies that are frequently found in our
HTs are 439.695 and 879.39. One gentleman had a scanner
that would do 66-88MHz and programmed in punched in
73.2875 and did quite well with it.


At 11:10 AM 12/12/06, you wrote:

Hello All

An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input 
(144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM 
detector---The signal is approximately one second in 
durationopens with 100 hz. PL (which continues throughout) and 
then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession and then possibly 
a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats exactly two 
times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions. This 
goes on continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our 
area is between urban and big city and the signal is strong enough 
to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.


A wave file of the mystery signal is at:

http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav

using an FM detector with wide open squelch.

We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its origin

What is it ?

Thanks--

Scott, N6NXI

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Dave Schmidt]

In the wav file is that white noise or data bursts before and after the
dtmf?

Dave / N9NLU




On 12/12/06, Jaime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


   Sounds like a digital signal. Could it be one of those new d-star rigs
that some one has activated the autodial feature on the dtmf pad too? The
DTMF sounds like it is coming from an autodial feature. My HT has this
feature and so does my mobile rig.

Jaime-KA3NXN

- Original Message 
From: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Dave Platt <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:10:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

 Hello All

An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670mhz.) 
of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The signal
is approximately one second in duration opens with 100 hz. PL
(which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid
succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal
repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in between
transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption or apparent
change. Our area is between urban and big city and the signal is strong
enough to be heard over a wide area using only an HT.

A wave file of the mystery signal is at:

http://www.radagast .org/~dplatt/ hamradio/ Signal_3. 
wav<http://www.radagast.org/%7Edplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav>

using an FM detector with wide open squelch.

We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its
origin

What is it ?

Thanks--

Scott, N6NXI




--
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! 
Answers<http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>.
Try it now.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Jaime]

Sounds like a digital signal. Could it be one of those new d-star rigs that 
some one has activated the autodial feature on the dtmf pad too? The DTMF 
sounds like it is coming from an autodial feature. My HT has this feature and 
so does my mobile rig.

Jaime-KA3NXN

- Original Message 
From: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Scott Overstreet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Dave Platt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:10:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal









  







Hello All

 

An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared 
on the input (144.670 mhz.) of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM 
detector---The signal is approximately one second in duration opens with 
100 hz. PL (which continues throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow 
in rapid succession and then possibly a short period of some sort of data. The 
signal repeats exactly two times an hour and the source is off in between 
transmissions. This goes on continuously without interruption or apparent 
change. Our area is between urban and big city and the signal is strong enough 
to be heard over a wide area using only an HT. 

 

A wave file of the mystery signal is 
at:

 

http://www.radagast .org/~dplatt/ hamradio/ Signal_3. wav

 

using an FM detector with wide open 
squelch.

 

We are obviously very interested in identifing this 
signal and its origin

 

What is it ? 

 

Thanks--

 

Scott, N6NXI

 

 



  
















 

Yahoo! Music Unlimited
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[Repeater-Builder] Mystery Signal

[Scott Overstreet]

Hello All

An interfering mystery signal has suddenly appeared on the input (144.670 mhz.) 
of our repeater. Using a five kc. wide FM detector---The signal is 
approximately one second in durationopens with 100 hz. PL (which continues 
throughout) and then three DTMF "zeros" follow in rapid succession and then 
possibly a short period of some sort of data. The signal repeats exactly two 
times an hour and the source is off in between transmissions. This goes on 
continuously without interruption or apparent change. Our area is between urban 
and big city and the signal is strong enough to be heard over a wide area using 
only an HT. 

A wave file of the mystery signal is at:

http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/Signal_3.wav

using an FM detector with wide open squelch.

We are obviously very interested in identifing this signal and its origin

What is it ? 

Thanks--

Scott, N6NXI