Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Try this http://www.cqham.ru/rln4008d.htm Hope this help. 73 W4CSO - Original Message - From: Bob M. To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry Does anybody know of schematics for RIB-less cables? I'm trying to find out which pin(s) they use to get power from the serial port to operate the circuitry built into the DB9 connector body. I've got a couple that seem to be dead on two computers but run fine on another one and I suspect some very slight differences in the serial port configurations when the machines are booted up. If you have links for such schematics, just post those rather than the entire image which won't make it through Yahoo's e-mail system. Thanks. Bob M. __ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Did you check batlabs.com? Richard <http://www.n7tgb.net/> www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob M. Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 11:52 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry Does anybody know of schematics for RIB-less cables? I'm trying to find out which pin(s) they use to get power from the serial port to operate the circuitry built into the DB9 connector body. I've got a couple that seem to be dead on two computers but run fine on another one and I suspect some very slight differences in the serial port configurations when the machines are booted up. If you have links for such schematics, just post those rather than the entire image which won't make it through Yahoo's e-mail system. Thanks. Bob M. __ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals. <http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Anyone trying to get power from a RS232 port to power external devices is asking for trouble like being experienced here. There is nothing in the RS232 spec that spec current capabilities other than providing voltages at driving impedances. One might take one port, make measurements and say this is what is needed or can be done. However, another port on a different device/computer will have different parameters and still meet spec. This is one of these issues where the designer just before he got fired says "well it works here". The next designer is left to clean up the mess. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2008/04/05 Sat PM 08:00:59 CDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry > >Thanks. That's what I was looking for. > >The reason I'm investigating this is that a friend >bought several RIBless cables to program GTX radios. >We used one on his Compaq laptop and it worked just >fine. We then tried to use one on two other computers >- both DELL - and the RIB seemed dead, as in no power. >The GTX thought the RIB was turned off and came up in >trunking test mode. We had to use a real RIB and cable >to finish the job. > >So I bought one of those LED testers for DB9 ports and >found low signals on DTR and RTS, as well as TXD >during idle periods. Starting RSS didn't change the >state of those lines, and as they're the ones that are >providing power, the RIBless cable is dead in the >water. > >Neither Radius, GTX, or Spectra programs activate any >of the serial port control lines to power the RIBless >cable. > >Strangely the MSF5000 program DOES turn both of those >lines on, and leaves them that way when it exits. A >subsequent program can thus use the RIBless cable. > >In a couple of weeks I'll be meeting the guy with the >Compaq laptop and the port tester will be plugged in >so I can see how it powers up. I don't know if a >serial port should activate the modem control lines >when it's initialized by the BIOS, but it certainly is >a problem with these particular RIBless cables. > >Bob M. >== >--- Scott Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> Most of these cables use the DTR (pin 4 on a DB-9) >> and RTS (pin7 on a DB-9) >> lines (Data Terminal Ready and Ready To Send) on >> most com ports these are >> configured to be high (5-15v). There is not much >> current here, just a few >> mA. >> >> Here is a good article entitled "Get power out of a >> PC RS-232 Port: >> >http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/rspower.html >> >> Here is a link to a good universal programmer that I >> use on occasion: >> http://www.cqham.ru/uniprog2_eng.html >> This works VERY well and like it's name implies VERY >> universal. The only >> addition I made was to add another diode to the >> input matrix from an >> external power supply. This was for those computers >> with poor serial ports >> and no power available from the radio being >> programmed. I simply used a >> 78L05 voltage regulator instead of the one listed. >> It's not low dropout, but >> it seems to wok fine. >> >> Good Luck, >> Scott >> >> Scott Zimmerman >> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC >> 474 Barnett Rd >> Boswell, PA 15531 >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:51 PM >> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry >> >> >> > Does anybody know of schematics for RIB-less >> cables? >> > I'm trying to find out which pin(s) they use to >> get >> > power from the serial port to operate the >> circuitry >> > built into the DB9 connector body. >> > >> > I've got a couple that seem to be dead on two >> > computers but run fine on another one and I >> suspect >> > some very slight differences in the serial port >> > configurations when the machines are booted up. >> > >> > If you have links for such schematics, just post >> those >> > rather than the entire image which won't make it >> > through Yahoo's e-mail system. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > Bob M. > >__ >You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total >Access, No Cost. >http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Bob and all, A RS232 normally has no power output to power external devices like USB does. RS232 provides data and other hand shaking lines for control. The RIB box is simply a RS232 level to 5 volt transceiver converter. RS232 is up to +/-25 V (most are in the 10 V range) logic data and radios are most often 0-5V. The RIB box does the conversion with some hand shaking of the control lines. I have seen some RS232 to 0-5V converters that do not require power for the receive line. A simple inverter made from a NPN transistor will work often...will not meet RS232 spec, but will work. The transmit line is another issue for the computer wants the +/-higher voltages. Often if the RS232 port is not getting correct hand shaking it displays an error such as if no device is connected when the port is accessed. This is in the computer driver. My RIB boxes, some 3rd party, have provisions and require an external power source. I have taken the hand shaking lines and jumpered on the connector to give the computer the right signals. The problem is if the target device cannot handle the speed of the incoming characters...the device takes too much time between characters to handle and the computer simply spits it out on its own speed (we are not talking about baud rate here, but character rate) and the device gets over run. I would think if working on one computer and not another then the one not working is requiring the handshaking on the port and the RIB box is not providing it. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2008/04/06 Sun AM 04:24:56 CDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry > >On the two Dell computers the RIBless cables don't >work on, a regular battery-powered after-market RIB >works perfectly under MS-DOS. So does anything else I >attach to the serial port. But when the DTR and RTS >lines are low, the RIBless port isn't getting any >power, its circuitry isn't working, and the radio sees >an unpowered RIB attached to its programming line. >Gets nowhere fast. I haven't tried every computer in >the house to see if perhaps RSS is turning those lines >on but my Dell machines aren't doing that, or if RSS >doesn't bother with the lines, in which case it's up >to the computer BIOS to do the job. Since a lot of >older RSS packages don't have good serial port >routines in them, I suspect RSS doesn't even bother >trying to set DTR and RSS. > >I've seen a lot of IBM laptops where the serial port >was disabled or reassigned to be a modem or IR port. >The Dell machines I've got (most are pre-2000) have >the ports assigned properly/logically. > >Bob M. >== >--- George Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I have seen some Dell laptops where the serial port >> was disabled in the BIOS >> right out of the box, but still works under Windows >> XP. You might want to >> check the BIOS settings to be sure the port is >> actually enabled. >> >> George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable >> circuitry >> >> > Thanks. That's what I was looking for. >> > >> > The reason I'm investigating this is that a friend >> > bought several RIBless cables to program GTX >> radios. >> > We used one on his Compaq laptop and it worked >> just >> > fine. We then tried to use one on two other >> computers >> > - both DELL - and the RIB seemed dead, as in no >> power. >> > The GTX thought the RIB was turned off and came up >> in >> > trunking test mode. We had to use a real RIB and >> cable >> > to finish the job. >> > >> > So I bought one of those LED testers for DB9 ports >> and >> > found low signals on DTR and RTS, as well as TXD >> > during idle periods. Starting RSS didn't change >> the >> > state of those lines, and as they're the ones that >> are >> > providing power, the RIBless cable is dead in the >> > water. >> [snip] > >__ >You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total >Access, No Cost. >http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
On the two Dell computers the RIBless cables don't work on, a regular battery-powered after-market RIB works perfectly under MS-DOS. So does anything else I attach to the serial port. But when the DTR and RTS lines are low, the RIBless port isn't getting any power, its circuitry isn't working, and the radio sees an unpowered RIB attached to its programming line. Gets nowhere fast. I haven't tried every computer in the house to see if perhaps RSS is turning those lines on but my Dell machines aren't doing that, or if RSS doesn't bother with the lines, in which case it's up to the computer BIOS to do the job. Since a lot of older RSS packages don't have good serial port routines in them, I suspect RSS doesn't even bother trying to set DTR and RSS. I've seen a lot of IBM laptops where the serial port was disabled or reassigned to be a modem or IR port. The Dell machines I've got (most are pre-2000) have the ports assigned properly/logically. Bob M. == --- George Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have seen some Dell laptops where the serial port > was disabled in the BIOS > right out of the box, but still works under Windows > XP. You might want to > check the BIOS settings to be sure the port is > actually enabled. > > George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 > > - Original Message - > From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable > circuitry > > > Thanks. That's what I was looking for. > > > > The reason I'm investigating this is that a friend > > bought several RIBless cables to program GTX > radios. > > We used one on his Compaq laptop and it worked > just > > fine. We then tried to use one on two other > computers > > - both DELL - and the RIB seemed dead, as in no > power. > > The GTX thought the RIB was turned off and came up > in > > trunking test mode. We had to use a real RIB and > cable > > to finish the job. > > > > So I bought one of those LED testers for DB9 ports > and > > found low signals on DTR and RTS, as well as TXD > > during idle periods. Starting RSS didn't change > the > > state of those lines, and as they're the ones that > are > > providing power, the RIBless cable is dead in the > > water. > [snip] You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
I have seen some Dell laptops where the serial port was disabled in the BIOS right out of the box, but still works under Windows XP. You might want to check the BIOS settings to be sure the port is actually enabled. George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 - Original Message - From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry > Thanks. That's what I was looking for. > > The reason I'm investigating this is that a friend > bought several RIBless cables to program GTX radios. > We used one on his Compaq laptop and it worked just > fine. We then tried to use one on two other computers > - both DELL - and the RIB seemed dead, as in no power. > The GTX thought the RIB was turned off and came up in > trunking test mode. We had to use a real RIB and cable > to finish the job. > > So I bought one of those LED testers for DB9 ports and > found low signals on DTR and RTS, as well as TXD > during idle periods. Starting RSS didn't change the > state of those lines, and as they're the ones that are > providing power, the RIBless cable is dead in the > water. [snip]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Thanks. That's what I was looking for. The reason I'm investigating this is that a friend bought several RIBless cables to program GTX radios. We used one on his Compaq laptop and it worked just fine. We then tried to use one on two other computers - both DELL - and the RIB seemed dead, as in no power. The GTX thought the RIB was turned off and came up in trunking test mode. We had to use a real RIB and cable to finish the job. So I bought one of those LED testers for DB9 ports and found low signals on DTR and RTS, as well as TXD during idle periods. Starting RSS didn't change the state of those lines, and as they're the ones that are providing power, the RIBless cable is dead in the water. Neither Radius, GTX, or Spectra programs activate any of the serial port control lines to power the RIBless cable. Strangely the MSF5000 program DOES turn both of those lines on, and leaves them that way when it exits. A subsequent program can thus use the RIBless cable. In a couple of weeks I'll be meeting the guy with the Compaq laptop and the port tester will be plugged in so I can see how it powers up. I don't know if a serial port should activate the modem control lines when it's initialized by the BIOS, but it certainly is a problem with these particular RIBless cables. Bob M. == --- Scott Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bob, > > Most of these cables use the DTR (pin 4 on a DB-9) > and RTS (pin7 on a DB-9) > lines (Data Terminal Ready and Ready To Send) on > most com ports these are > configured to be high (5-15v). There is not much > current here, just a few > mA. > > Here is a good article entitled "Get power out of a > PC RS-232 Port: > http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/rspower.html > > Here is a link to a good universal programmer that I > use on occasion: > http://www.cqham.ru/uniprog2_eng.html > This works VERY well and like it's name implies VERY > universal. The only > addition I made was to add another diode to the > input matrix from an > external power supply. This was for those computers > with poor serial ports > and no power available from the radio being > programmed. I simply used a > 78L05 voltage regulator instead of the one listed. > It's not low dropout, but > it seems to wok fine. > > Good Luck, > Scott > > Scott Zimmerman > Amateur Radio Call N3XCC > 474 Barnett Rd > Boswell, PA 15531 > > - Original Message - > From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:51 PM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry > > > > Does anybody know of schematics for RIB-less > cables? > > I'm trying to find out which pin(s) they use to > get > > power from the serial port to operate the > circuitry > > built into the DB9 connector body. > > > > I've got a couple that seem to be dead on two > > computers but run fine on another one and I > suspect > > some very slight differences in the serial port > > configurations when the machines are booted up. > > > > If you have links for such schematics, just post > those > > rather than the entire image which won't make it > > through Yahoo's e-mail system. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Bob M. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Bob, Most of these cables use the DTR (pin 4 on a DB-9) and RTS (pin7 on a DB-9) lines (Data Terminal Ready and Ready To Send) on most com ports these are configured to be high (5-15v). There is not much current here, just a few mA. Here is a good article entitled "Get power out of a PC RS-232 Port: http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/rspower.html Here is a link to a good universal programmer that I use on occasion: http://www.cqham.ru/uniprog2_eng.html This works VERY well and like it's name implies VERY universal. The only addition I made was to add another diode to the input matrix from an external power supply. This was for those computers with poor serial ports and no power available from the radio being programmed. I simply used a 78L05 voltage regulator instead of the one listed. It's not low dropout, but it seems to wok fine. Good Luck, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry > Does anybody know of schematics for RIB-less cables? > I'm trying to find out which pin(s) they use to get > power from the serial port to operate the circuitry > built into the DB9 connector body. > > I've got a couple that seem to be dead on two > computers but run fine on another one and I suspect > some very slight differences in the serial port > configurations when the machines are booted up. > > If you have links for such schematics, just post those > rather than the entire image which won't make it > through Yahoo's e-mail system. > > Thanks. > > Bob M. > > > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 8:23 AM > >
[Repeater-Builder] RIB-less cable circuitry
Does anybody know of schematics for RIB-less cables? I'm trying to find out which pin(s) they use to get power from the serial port to operate the circuitry built into the DB9 connector body. I've got a couple that seem to be dead on two computers but run fine on another one and I suspect some very slight differences in the serial port configurations when the machines are booted up. If you have links for such schematics, just post those rather than the entire image which won't make it through Yahoo's e-mail system. Thanks. Bob M. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
