RE: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-25 Thread Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
Well, he moved quite a while ago, but the updating of the license data was
forgotten about until I noticed it on QRZ.com.  I forgot to ask him what he
ended up doing... I'll try to file that particular brain-cell away into the
'important' database.

Mike
WM4B

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

  When I say "through one of the groups" I refer to arrl VEC groups.
  You fill out  ARRL VEC Form 605-C and mail it to one of the groups.
  Must be signed by the trustee and one officer of the club (may not be the

same person).
  I tried changing it in the ULS system, and was _NOT_ allowed to do so.
  I did change my 0wn addres twice with no problem.

  For clarification, see:
  <http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/605ins.html#club>
  Interesting, it does not state that the officers of a club, other than  
the trustee, need to hold a ham license. Trustee must hold any class  
license other than Novice.

  How long ago did your trustee move?
  I is most likely that he was only able to change the address for his  
license, and not the club license, using the ULS system.

  Wayne WA2YNE


On Wed, 21 May 2008 20:41:49 -0500, Mike Besemer (WM4B)  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wayne,
>
> What do you mean 'routing it through one of the groups'? I'm not  
> positive,
> but when the holder of our club call moved, I think he just had to go  
> into
> ULS and request the changes to the mailing address.  I'll ask him when I
> talk to him again, but I remember him saying he had a problem only  
> because
> he'd never registered in ULS.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:53 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link
>
>   I had tried a Google search, but as one person pointed out, too many  
> web
> sites not updated.
>   Now I see it is best to simply go directly to the FCC web site and  
> look.
>
>   regarding club calls/licenses, you cannot even put in a change of  
> address
>
> without routing it through one of the groups, as I found out.
>
>   Wayne WA2YNE
>
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:25:21 -0500, Ron Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> To get any FCC regs go to:
>>
>> http://www.fcc.gov/
>>
>> Select on the left "Rules & Regulations".
>>
>> At the top select "Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations."
>>
>> Now you can scroll down and select ANY Part you want including Part 97,
>> the Amateur RAdio rules.
>>
>> You will be taken to another site.
>>
>> I always go to the first page of a reg to see its date.  For at least 6
>> months after the changes in Feb 2007 when the code was removed, changes
>> in AUX freq, etc the site had not been updated.  The ARRL site was the
>> same.  Both now appear up to date.
>>
>> At the FCC.gov site one can do many things like apply for some license,
>> get vanity call, renew, etc.  They even take credit cards.   However, a
>> club call must be applied for on hard paper thru a VEC like ARRL or
>> W5YI.
>>
>> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>>
>>



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Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-25 Thread Wayne 
  When I say "through one of the groups" I refer to arrl VEC groups.
  You fill out  ARRL VEC Form 605-C and mail it to one of the groups.
  Must be signed by the trustee and one officer of the club (may not be the  
same person).
  I tried changing it in the ULS system, and was _NOT_ allowed to do so.
  I did change my 0wn addres twice with no problem.

  For clarification, see:
  <http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/605ins.html#club>
  Interesting, it does not state that the officers of a club, other than  
the trustee, need to hold a ham license. Trustee must hold any class  
license other than Novice.

  How long ago did your trustee move?
  I is most likely that he was only able to change the address for his  
license, and not the club license, using the ULS system.

  Wayne WA2YNE


On Wed, 21 May 2008 20:41:49 -0500, Mike Besemer (WM4B)  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wayne,
>
> What do you mean 'routing it through one of the groups'? I'm not  
> positive,
> but when the holder of our club call moved, I think he just had to go  
> into
> ULS and request the changes to the mailing address.  I'll ask him when I
> talk to him again, but I remember him saying he had a problem only  
> because
> he'd never registered in ULS.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:53 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link
>
>   I had tried a Google search, but as one person pointed out, too many  
> web
> sites not updated.
>   Now I see it is best to simply go directly to the FCC web site and  
> look.
>
>   regarding club calls/licenses, you cannot even put in a change of  
> address
>
> without routing it through one of the groups, as I found out.
>
>   Wayne WA2YNE
>
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:25:21 -0500, Ron Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> To get any FCC regs go to:
>>
>> http://www.fcc.gov/
>>
>> Select on the left "Rules & Regulations".
>>
>> At the top select "Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations."
>>
>> Now you can scroll down and select ANY Part you want including Part 97,
>> the Amateur RAdio rules.
>>
>> You will be taken to another site.
>>
>> I always go to the first page of a reg to see its date.  For at least 6
>> months after the changes in Feb 2007 when the code was removed, changes
>> in AUX freq, etc the site had not been updated.  The ARRL site was the
>> same.  Both now appear up to date.
>>
>> At the FCC.gov site one can do many things like apply for some license,
>> get vanity call, renew, etc.  They even take credit cards.   However, a
>> club call must be applied for on hard paper thru a VEC like ARRL or
>> W5YI.
>>
>> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>>
>>



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RE: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-21 Thread Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
Wayne,

What do you mean 'routing it through one of the groups'? I'm not positive,
but when the holder of our club call moved, I think he just had to go into
ULS and request the changes to the mailing address.  I'll ask him when I
talk to him again, but I remember him saying he had a problem only because
he'd never registered in ULS.

Mike
WM4B

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:53 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

  I had tried a Google search, but as one person pointed out, too many web  
sites not updated.
  Now I see it is best to simply go directly to the FCC web site and look.

  regarding club calls/licenses, you cannot even put in a change of address

without routing it through one of the groups, as I found out.

  Wayne WA2YNE

On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:25:21 -0500, Ron Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> To get any FCC regs go to:
>
> http://www.fcc.gov/
>
> Select on the left "Rules & Regulations".
>
> At the top select "Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations."
>
> Now you can scroll down and select ANY Part you want including Part 97,
> the Amateur RAdio rules.
>
> You will be taken to another site.
>
> I always go to the first page of a reg to see its date.  For at least 6
> months after the changes in Feb 2007 when the code was removed, changes
> in AUX freq, etc the site had not been updated.  The ARRL site was the
> same.  Both now appear up to date.
>
> At the FCC.gov site one can do many things like apply for some license,
> get vanity call, renew, etc.  They even take credit cards.   However, a
> club call must be applied for on hard paper thru a VEC like ARRL or
> W5YI.
>
> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>
>
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Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-21 Thread Wayne 
  I had tried a Google search, but as one person pointed out, too many web  
sites not updated.
  Now I see it is best to simply go directly to the FCC web site and look.

  regarding club calls/licenses, you cannot even put in a change of address  
without routing it through one of the groups, as I found out.

  Wayne WA2YNE

On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:25:21 -0500, Ron Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> To get any FCC regs go to:
>
> http://www.fcc.gov/
>
> Select on the left "Rules & Regulations".
>
> At the top select "Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations."
>
> Now you can scroll down and select ANY Part you want including Part 97,
> the Amateur RAdio rules.
>
> You will be taken to another site.
>
> I always go to the first page of a reg to see its date.  For at least 6
> months after the changes in Feb 2007 when the code was removed, changes
> in AUX freq, etc the site had not been updated.  The ARRL site was the
> same.  Both now appear up to date.
>
> At the FCC.gov site one can do many things like apply for some license,
> get vanity call, renew, etc.  They even take credit cards.   However, a
> club call must be applied for on hard paper thru a VEC like ARRL or
> W5YI.
>
> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>
>
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Re: ham websites (was: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link)

2008-05-21 Thread Wayne 
  That explains it pretty well.
  Any time there is something like that, I would normally put a link to it  
on one of my web sites.
  I am aware that part 97 does change, as well as other parts of the rules.
  Of course, some people are so far behind that the code being dropped has  
not come to their attention yet, ha ha ha.
  I will admit that some of my web sites need updating, and have started on  
parts of them.
  I was keeping a database of 2 meter repeaters in Northern California, but  
got behind on that after I moved the first time. Plan to try and set one  
up for Texas now, but using the information from the coordinators web site  
(need to resolve reading parts of their current database, as it gets  
partly obscured by another frame (I hate using frames myself, seldom do)  
so don't see the tones and a bit of other information)...
  I see some web pages with such terrible text and background colors that  
one cannot read the text unless highlighted.
  I make most of mine so that virtually any browser can view it, and only  
use limited Javascripting.
  I have even set up some pages with an autorefresh, as some browsers tend  
to use cached pages unless you do a manual refresh.
  Gotta go catch up on more emails. Bad enough I get behind, but the power  
went out last night.

  Wayne WA2YNE


On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:36:27 -0500, Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wayne wrote:
>>   Why is it that it seems to be hard to locate the updated part 97.201
>> other than on the ARRL web site?
>>   I searched and searched but only came up with the older version till I
>> searched on the ARRL site.
>
> Because most hams who have websites are clueless that Part 97 ever
> changes.  And personal websites are boring to maintain, after seeming
> "fun" at first.
>
> (There's a lot of crappy neglected websites out there, including mine.
> GRIN...)
>
> They copied down "some version" a long time ago and never update it,
> instead of linking to someone who has a vested interest in having their
> site up to date, like ARRL or -- oh yeah, the FCC themselves.   :-)
>
> Which means they kinda missed the whole design goal of hypertext and
> linking in the first place...
>
> Nate WY0X



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Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread Ron Wright 


I went to the ARRL site and got to Part 97 which came up as a web page. 
I select in EDIT SELECT ALL, COPY and then PASTE in Wordpad.  Sure does 
not have all the pretty stuff, but does save the text.


The FCC web site takes one to a list of each section and not the entire 
Part in one file.  Good for moving around.


There are many ways of saveing it.

73, ron, n9ee/r

Ron Wright, N9EE

727-376-6575

MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS

Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL

No tone, all are welcome.




On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George Henry wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Nate Duehr" < [EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
To: < Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
<mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com> >

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] part 97.201 was Control Link


George Henry wrote:
Did you try the FCC website?  3 clicks from the home page and you're 
there.  And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for 
keywords SOO much nicer!  (I downloaded all of the subparts & 
assembled them into 1 PDF document with Acrobat 6.0)


This link:
< http://www.arrl. org/FandES/ field/regulation s/news/part97/ 
onepage.html 
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/onepage.html> 
>
Is the entire thing on one page, and CTRL-F in your browser will do 
the same thing, a heck of a lot faster than launching Acrobat.

Nate WY0X


Maybe so, but Acrobat will show you a pane with all of the occurrences 
of

your keywords, in context...  CTRL-F can't do that!


<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/onepage.html>

Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread George Henry 

- Original Message - 
From: "Nate Duehr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link


> George Henry wrote:
>
>> Did you try the FCC website?  3 clicks from the home page and you're 
>> there.  And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for 
>> keywords SOO much nicer!  (I downloaded all of the subparts & 
>> assembled them into 1 PDF document with Acrobat 6.0)
>
> This link:
>
> <http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/onepage.html>
>
> Is the entire thing on one page, and CTRL-F in your browser will do the
> same thing, a heck of a lot faster than launching Acrobat.
>
> Nate WY0X
>


Maybe so, but Acrobat will show you a pane with all of the occurrences of 
your keywords, in context...  CTRL-F can't do that!

RE: [Repeater-Builder]Part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread Eric Lemmon 
Or, you can get the complete and latest edition of Part 97 here:

Please take careful note that the latest and current edition of Part 97 is
dated October 2007.  The next edition will be dated October 2008, and will
be published in January 2009.

The current editions of Parts 15, 17, 90, and 95 are also available for
download on the RBTIP.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 6:15 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder]Part 97.201 was Control Link

Or try here for the "official" copy:
<http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/cfr/1998/47cfr9
<http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/cfr/1998/47cfr9
> 
7.pdf> 

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  On Behalf Of Nate Duehr

George Henry wrote:

> Did you try the FCC website? 3 clicks from the home page and you're
there. And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for keywords
SOO much nicer! (I downloaded all of the subparts & assembled them into
1 PDF document with Acrobat 6.0)

This link:

<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/onepage.html
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/onepage.html> >

Is the entire thing on one page, and CTRL-F in your browser will do the 
same thing, a heck of a lot faster than launching Acrobat.

Nate WY0X

RE: [Repeater-Builder]Part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread n9wys 
Or try here for the "official" copy:
 

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Nate Duehr

George Henry wrote:

> Did you try the FCC website?  3 clicks from the home page and you're
there.  And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for keywords
SOO much nicer!  (I downloaded all of the subparts & assembled them into
1 PDF document with Acrobat 6.0)


This link:



Is the entire thing on one page, and CTRL-F in your browser will do the 
same thing, a heck of a lot faster than launching Acrobat.

Nate WY0X

Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread Ron Wright 


To get any FCC regs go to:

http://www.fcc.gov/

Select on the left "Rules & Regulations".

At the top select "Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations."

Now you can scroll down and select ANY Part you want including Part 97, 
the Amateur RAdio rules.


You will be taken to another site.

I always go to the first page of a reg to see its date.  For at least 6 
months after the changes in Feb 2007 when the code was removed, changes 
in AUX freq, etc the site had not been updated.  The ARRL site was the 
same.  Both now appear up to date.


At the FCC.gov site one can do many things like apply for some license, 
get vanity call, renew, etc.  They even take credit cards.   However, a 
club call must be applied for on hard paper thru a VEC like ARRL or 
W5YI.


73, ron, n9ee/r


Ron Wright, N9EE

727-376-6575

MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS

Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL

No tone, all are welcome.




On Mon, May 19, 2008 at  5:24 PM, George Henry wrote:

-Original Message-
From: Wayne < [EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: May 
19, 2008 2:57 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
<mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: 
[Repeater-Builder] part 97.201 was Control Link
 Why is it that it seems to be hard to locate the updated part 97.201 
other than on the ARRL web site?  I searched and searched but only 
came up with the older version till I searched on the ARRL site.


Did you try the FCC website?  3 clicks from the home page and you're 
there.  And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for 
keywords SOO much nicer!  (I downloaded all of the subparts & 
assembled them into 1 PDF document with Acrobat 6.0)


George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
 <mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com>

Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread Nate Duehr 
George Henry wrote:

> Did you try the FCC website?  3 clicks from the home page and you're there.  
> And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for keywords SOO 
> much nicer!  (I downloaded all of the subparts & assembled them into 1 PDF 
> document with Acrobat 6.0)

This link:



Is the entire thing on one page, and CTRL-F in your browser will do the 
same thing, a heck of a lot faster than launching Acrobat.

Nate WY0X

ham websites (was: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link)

2008-05-19 Thread Nate Duehr 
Wayne wrote:
>   Why is it that it seems to be hard to locate the updated part 97.201  
> other than on the ARRL web site?
>   I searched and searched but only came up with the older version till I  
> searched on the ARRL site.

Because most hams who have websites are clueless that Part 97 ever 
changes.  And personal websites are boring to maintain, after seeming 
"fun" at first.

(There's a lot of crappy neglected websites out there, including mine. 
GRIN...)

They copied down "some version" a long time ago and never update it, 
instead of linking to someone who has a vested interest in having their 
site up to date, like ARRL or -- oh yeah, the FCC themselves.   :-)

Which means they kinda missed the whole design goal of hypertext and 
linking in the first place...

Nate WY0X

Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread George Henry 
-Original Message-
>From: Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: May 19, 2008 2:57 PM
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link
>
>  Why is it that it seems to be hard to locate the updated part 97.201  
>other than on the ARRL web site?
>  I searched and searched but only came up with the older version till I  
>searched on the ARRL site.


Did you try the FCC website?  3 clicks from the home page and you're there.  
And in PDF form, too, which makes searching the rules for keywords SOO much 
nicer!  (I downloaded all of the subparts & assembled them into 1 PDF document 
with Acrobat 6.0)



George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413

Re: [Repeater-Builder]part 97.201 was Control Link

2008-05-19 Thread Wayne 
  Why is it that it seems to be hard to locate the updated part 97.201  
other than on the ARRL web site?
  I searched and searched but only came up with the older version till I  
searched on the ARRL site.

  At any rate, it does now allow one to use parts of two meter as control  
links.
  Arguing otherwise is futile, no matter how one looks at it.
  I would agree that it would be better to use a coordinated link when  
practical, plus best to use a link that is either at least 5 MHz away on  
say 70 centimeters, or on a different band, with good filtering on the RX  
to prevent problems from nearby strong signals. And using CTCSS helps  
prevent problems as well. For many, using a less commonly used tone might  
help. Also, by using a link frequency that was assigned, or at least  
coordinated gives one some degree of protection.

  Regarding using a receiver only at the repeater site, still means there  
is a transmitter to access said RX unit. So it still comes under control  
link.

  I have heard hams try to interpret the rules to say something other than  
what is in plain language.
  As an example, some tried to say that a repeater owner was resposible for  
any non legal talk or communications on his repeater, such as foul  
language. Not true, unless the owner or control operator does nothing to  
control it once said control is aware of the problem. This is as simple as  
shutting down the repeater at the time.

  Let us keep this to facts, not what was or what never was fact...
  YMMV

  Wayne WA2YNE
  441.950TX 446.950RX CG Tone167.9 (Mine is a GE).



On Sat, 17 May 2008 22:11:11 -0500, MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But the users at the control points transmit. In WPA, such links are
> coordinated for a particular radius in which the station is
> "coordinated". It helps assure that the receiver does not receive
> interference from other such links.
>
> Joe M.
>
> Kris Kirby wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 May 2008, Ron Wright wrote:
>>> ยง97.213 Telecommand of an amateur station. If radio, the control
>>> link must use an auxiliary station.
>>>
>>> This says it all.  A control link for controlling a repeater by radio
>>> is an auxiliary station.  Also in 97.201 the freq coordination for Aux
>>> stations follows similar to repeaters.  If interference the
>>> coordinated aux station has preference over non-coordinated.
>>
>> I really don't want to split hairs further, but there is a thought here
>> that occurs to me -- the FCC does not require recievers to be licensed.
>>
>> If you are using the "control link" as a recieve-only radio... What
>> coordination would be required? Is it an auxilary station? If the radio
>> doesn't transmit
>>
>> --
>> Kris Kirby, KE4AHR  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>

-- 
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