Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
breakers are ratedat '80%' it's not the wire or outlets that determine load allowed, but (breaker rating) x 80% - Original Message - From: Ron Wright To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Eric, Question about the outlets. Is the only reason one cannot get more than 12 amp from a 15 amp outlet is the rules so if one is designing a power system if more than 12 amps is required one has to put in 20 amp outlet to meet code??? I would think one could get 15 amps due to the breaker able to handle it or are 15 amp breakers designed to trip at just above 12 amps??? 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:00:53 EDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >Wayne, > >That is not exactly true. An outlet rated at 15 amperes cannot have any >load greater than 12 amperes plugged into it. An outlet rated at 20 amperes >cannot have any load greater than 16 amperes plugged into it. This is >clearly stated in Article 210.21(B)(2) of the National Electrical Code. A >device that actually draws 20 amperes at 120 VAC must be plugged into an >outlet and branch circuit rated at 30 amperes. > >When load currents exceed 16 amperes at 120 VAC, it's time to consider a >branch circuit rated at 208 or 240 VAC. Most repeaters and high-power PAs >have optional connections to enable operation on 208 or 240 VAC. Keep in >mind that there is no such voltage as "220" although that obsolete figure is >still in common usage. The nominal single-phase voltage supplied to >residences is 120/240 VAC, while the electrical supply to light commercial, >apartment complexes, and condos is usually 120/208 VAC derived from two >phases of a three-phase distribution system. I mention this because a >fellow Ham who now lives in a large apartment complex mentioned to me that >his 500 watt rig that worked fine in his former home was not putting out >full power at his new location. The cause was revealed when he measured his >line-to-line voltage as close to 208 VAC. His power amplifier was rated for >240 VAC, but was "starving" when fed 87% of its design voltage. A >commercially-available "boost" transformer was installed to give him a true >240 VAC supply. Problem solved. > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > >-Original Message- >From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:01 AM >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >To properly plug in an item that is a 20 amp draw. etc., one should >install a 20 amp outlet. > This can be single or duplex, and is readily spotted (if dual purpose) by > >the fact that one side will be flat instead of vertical, or have both >horizontal and vertical on that side. > the flat/horizontal is on the neutral side. > Not to be confused with a similar looking outlet for 250 volts, which has > >two flats , and one has vertical as well on the left side, looking at the >front with the ground hole down. > >Anyway, there are oulets made for 20 or more amps, which are different >than the 15 amp common outlets. > >local ordinances can often be more stringent than even the NEC codes. > >of course, if you are running a high power repeater, you would probably >wish to put it on a circuit breaker by itself. > But ordinary house wiring normally has several outlets wired in series > from one breaker, and is NEC approved that way. > Shop and Industrial become another matter, ha ha ha... > >Wayne WA2YNE > >On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:08:33 -0500, Bruce Bagwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > >> I figured that was A local code, not NEC. The only reason I can think >> of for that requirement is the ampacity of the 12 or 14 ga wires. While >> we all know, in actual use, 2 or more outlets strung along will not all >> have 15 amp or higher loads in EACH outlet. However, theoretically, each >> outlet could have A 20 amp load plugged into it.That is probably why >> some pencil pusher decided each outlet needs its own wire. (Never mind >> the fact the breaker would trip regardless of what is plugged into each >> outlet or the number of wires leading to said outlets, but that's >> another crazy thread) As for the Breaker Box, I would assume each also >> has its
Re: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Eric, Thanks for the info. Yes we all went thru the vacuum cleaner current junk days. I guess was good marketing tool. Now it is how quiet and how it will clean your home air. Still little about how well it will clean what you want it for except for picking up M&Ms and bolts. The bowling ball pick up is still hanging in there, hi. So we can get 15 Amps out of a 15 amp 14-2 w/G circuit if needed. That was my question. The safety factor is my concern. We all know we should normally not load 100%, but how does one know in typical life. Most users don't even know what load is let alone how much it is. That is where the NEC comes in to give some assurance it is safe, not workable, but safe and that is how it should be. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:47:03 EDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >Ron, > >That is a good question. The answer is that one is not supposed to connect >any load greater than 12 amperes to an outlet rated at 15 amperes, that is, >a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. The NEC allows two or more 15-ampere-rated outlets >to be installed on a 20-ampere branch circuit (wired with 12 AWG conductors >and a 20A fuse or circuit breaker), but the limit of 12 amperes on each >outlet still applies. > >Proof of this restriction is evident in the "vacuum cleaner wars" of a >decade or so ago. Hoover came out with a vacuum cleaner with "7 amperes of >cleaning power." Then Bissel came out with a unit claiming 9 amperes of >cleaning power. Other vacuum cleaner makers entered the fray until all of >the brands had units with "12 amperes of cleaning power." The reason that >nobody offered a unit with 13 amperes of cleaning power is because they >would then have to equip that unit with a NEMA 5-20P plug and at least a >14/3 power cord. Most older homes do not have NEMA 5-20R outlets, so such a >vacuum cleaner could not be plugged in to the outlets in most homes. >Besides, there is no credibility to a laughable rating of "cleaning power" >expressed in amperes! That is about as silly as claiming that a mobile >radio has "13.8 volts of talk power!" > >Back to your second question. By definition, a 15-ampere-rated branch >circuit has circuit conductors of #14 AWG or larger, and is protected by a >fuse or circuit breaker rated at 15 amperes. The fuse or circuit breaker >should hold indefinitely at 15 amperes, but the NEC recognizes that allowing >100% of rated current is never a good idea, since wiring in attics may >already be in a very hot environment. Therefore, the NEC requires that no >ordinary branch circuit be permitted to be loaded more than 80% of the >circuit rating. That's where the 12 and 16 ampere limits come from. > >Another issue is voltage drop, which is directly proportional to circuit >loading. Circuits that are loaded to 100% of rating will probably have >excessive voltage drop, which leads to inefficient operation. Good >electrical design dictates that the wire size be increased for long runs, to >keep the voltage drop below 3%. Moreover, an adequate electrical supply >system should never experience more than 80% loading of any circuit. Very >heavy single loads should have a dedicated branch circuit of suitable >capacity, with a single outlet. > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > >-Original Message- >From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:07 PM >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >Eric, > >Question about the outlets. Is the only reason one cannot get more than 12 >amp from a 15 amp outlet is the rules so if one is designing a power system >if more than 12 amps is required one has to put in 20 amp outlet to meet >code??? > >I would think one could get 15 amps due to the breaker able to handle it or >are 15 amp breakers designed to trip at just above 12 amps??? > >73, ron, n9ee/r > >>From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net> > >>Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:00:53 EDT >>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com ><mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >>Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >> >>Wayne, >> >>That is not exactly true. An outlet rated at 15 amperes cannot have any >>load greater than 12 amperes plugged into it. An outlet rated at 20 amperes >>cannot have any load greater than 16 amperes plugged into it. This is >>clearly stated in Articl
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Eric, Nice explanation. Good engineering practice. However, circuits can be loaded 100% as long as it is not a continuous load (operated for more than 4 hours). Vacuum cleaners (not likely to run 4 hours at a time) are more likely limited to 12 amps due to minimum circuit opacity for motor loads requiring an additional 25% of the load, so as to not overload a 15 amp circuit. I apologize to all the non electricians reading this. Due to the amazingly confusing way the NEC is written, it's hard for electricians to pass up a good code argument. :) Once again, very good engineering practice, Eric, in spite of the code details. Gerald Pelnar WD0FYF McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: "Eric Lemmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:47 PM Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > Ron, > > That is a good question. The answer is that one is not supposed to > connect > any load greater than 12 amperes to an outlet rated at 15 amperes, that > is, > a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. The NEC allows two or more 15-ampere-rated > outlets > to be installed on a 20-ampere branch circuit (wired with 12 AWG > conductors > and a 20A fuse or circuit breaker), but the limit of 12 amperes on each > outlet still applies. > > Proof of this restriction is evident in the "vacuum cleaner wars" of a > decade or so ago. Hoover came out with a vacuum cleaner with "7 amperes > of > cleaning power." Then Bissel came out with a unit claiming 9 amperes of > cleaning power. Other vacuum cleaner makers entered the fray until all of > the brands had units with "12 amperes of cleaning power." The reason that > nobody offered a unit with 13 amperes of cleaning power is because they > would then have to equip that unit with a NEMA 5-20P plug and at least a > 14/3 power cord. Most older homes do not have NEMA 5-20R outlets, so such > a > vacuum cleaner could not be plugged in to the outlets in most homes. > Besides, there is no credibility to a laughable rating of "cleaning power" > expressed in amperes! That is about as silly as claiming that a mobile > radio has "13.8 volts of talk power!" > > Back to your second question. By definition, a 15-ampere-rated branch > circuit has circuit conductors of #14 AWG or larger, and is protected by a > fuse or circuit breaker rated at 15 amperes. The fuse or circuit breaker > should hold indefinitely at 15 amperes, but the NEC recognizes that > allowing > 100% of rated current is never a good idea, since wiring in attics may > already be in a very hot environment. Therefore, the NEC requires that no > ordinary branch circuit be permitted to be loaded more than 80% of the > circuit rating. That's where the 12 and 16 ampere limits come from. > > Another issue is voltage drop, which is directly proportional to circuit > loading. Circuits that are loaded to 100% of rating will probably have > excessive voltage drop, which leads to inefficient operation. Good > electrical design dictates that the wire size be increased for long runs, > to > keep the voltage drop below 3%. Moreover, an adequate electrical supply > system should never experience more than 80% loading of any circuit. Very > heavy single loads should have a dedicated branch circuit of suitable > capacity, with a single outlet. > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > >
RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Ron, That is a good question. The answer is that one is not supposed to connect any load greater than 12 amperes to an outlet rated at 15 amperes, that is, a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. The NEC allows two or more 15-ampere-rated outlets to be installed on a 20-ampere branch circuit (wired with 12 AWG conductors and a 20A fuse or circuit breaker), but the limit of 12 amperes on each outlet still applies. Proof of this restriction is evident in the "vacuum cleaner wars" of a decade or so ago. Hoover came out with a vacuum cleaner with "7 amperes of cleaning power." Then Bissel came out with a unit claiming 9 amperes of cleaning power. Other vacuum cleaner makers entered the fray until all of the brands had units with "12 amperes of cleaning power." The reason that nobody offered a unit with 13 amperes of cleaning power is because they would then have to equip that unit with a NEMA 5-20P plug and at least a 14/3 power cord. Most older homes do not have NEMA 5-20R outlets, so such a vacuum cleaner could not be plugged in to the outlets in most homes. Besides, there is no credibility to a laughable rating of "cleaning power" expressed in amperes! That is about as silly as claiming that a mobile radio has "13.8 volts of talk power!" Back to your second question. By definition, a 15-ampere-rated branch circuit has circuit conductors of #14 AWG or larger, and is protected by a fuse or circuit breaker rated at 15 amperes. The fuse or circuit breaker should hold indefinitely at 15 amperes, but the NEC recognizes that allowing 100% of rated current is never a good idea, since wiring in attics may already be in a very hot environment. Therefore, the NEC requires that no ordinary branch circuit be permitted to be loaded more than 80% of the circuit rating. That's where the 12 and 16 ampere limits come from. Another issue is voltage drop, which is directly proportional to circuit loading. Circuits that are loaded to 100% of rating will probably have excessive voltage drop, which leads to inefficient operation. Good electrical design dictates that the wire size be increased for long runs, to keep the voltage drop below 3%. Moreover, an adequate electrical supply system should never experience more than 80% loading of any circuit. Very heavy single loads should have a dedicated branch circuit of suitable capacity, with a single outlet. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Eric, Question about the outlets. Is the only reason one cannot get more than 12 amp from a 15 amp outlet is the rules so if one is designing a power system if more than 12 amps is required one has to put in 20 amp outlet to meet code??? I would think one could get 15 amps due to the breaker able to handle it or are 15 amp breakers designed to trip at just above 12 amps??? 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net> > >Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:00:53 EDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >Wayne, > >That is not exactly true. An outlet rated at 15 amperes cannot have any >load greater than 12 amperes plugged into it. An outlet rated at 20 amperes >cannot have any load greater than 16 amperes plugged into it. This is >clearly stated in Article 210.21(B)(2) of the National Electrical Code. A >device that actually draws 20 amperes at 120 VAC must be plugged into an >outlet and branch circuit rated at 30 amperes. > >When load currents exceed 16 amperes at 120 VAC, it's time to consider a >branch circuit rated at 208 or 240 VAC. Most repeaters and high-power PAs >have optional connections to enable operation on 208 or 240 VAC. Keep in >mind that there is no such voltage as "220" although that obsolete figure is >still in common usage. The nominal single-phase voltage supplied to >residences is 120/240 VAC, while the electrical supply to light commercial, >apartment complexes, and condos is usually 120/208 VAC derived from two >phases of a three-phase distribution system. I mention this because a >fellow Ham who now lives in a large apartment complex mentioned to me that >his 500 watt rig that worked fine in his former home was not putting out >full power at his new location. The cause was revealed when he measured his >line-to-line voltage as close to 208 VAC. His power amplifier was rated for >240 VAC, but was "starving" when fed 87% of its design voltage. A >commercially-available "boost" transformer was installed to give him a true &g
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Eric, Question about the outlets. Is the only reason one cannot get more than 12 amp from a 15 amp outlet is the rules so if one is designing a power system if more than 12 amps is required one has to put in 20 amp outlet to meet code??? I would think one could get 15 amps due to the breaker able to handle it or are 15 amp breakers designed to trip at just above 12 amps??? 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:00:53 EDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >Wayne, > >That is not exactly true. An outlet rated at 15 amperes cannot have any >load greater than 12 amperes plugged into it. An outlet rated at 20 amperes >cannot have any load greater than 16 amperes plugged into it. This is >clearly stated in Article 210.21(B)(2) of the National Electrical Code. A >device that actually draws 20 amperes at 120 VAC must be plugged into an >outlet and branch circuit rated at 30 amperes. > >When load currents exceed 16 amperes at 120 VAC, it's time to consider a >branch circuit rated at 208 or 240 VAC. Most repeaters and high-power PAs >have optional connections to enable operation on 208 or 240 VAC. Keep in >mind that there is no such voltage as "220" although that obsolete figure is >still in common usage. The nominal single-phase voltage supplied to >residences is 120/240 VAC, while the electrical supply to light commercial, >apartment complexes, and condos is usually 120/208 VAC derived from two >phases of a three-phase distribution system. I mention this because a >fellow Ham who now lives in a large apartment complex mentioned to me that >his 500 watt rig that worked fine in his former home was not putting out >full power at his new location. The cause was revealed when he measured his >line-to-line voltage as close to 208 VAC. His power amplifier was rated for >240 VAC, but was "starving" when fed 87% of its design voltage. A >commercially-available "boost" transformer was installed to give him a true >240 VAC supply. Problem solved. > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > >-Original Message- >From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:01 AM >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >To properly plug in an item that is a 20 amp draw. etc., one should >install a 20 amp outlet. > This can be single or duplex, and is readily spotted (if dual purpose) by > >the fact that one side will be flat instead of vertical, or have both >horizontal and vertical on that side. > the flat/horizontal is on the neutral side. > Not to be confused with a similar looking outlet for 250 volts, which has > >two flats , and one has vertical as well on the left side, looking at the >front with the ground hole down. > >Anyway, there are oulets made for 20 or more amps, which are different >than the 15 amp common outlets. > >local ordinances can often be more stringent than even the NEC codes. > >of course, if you are running a high power repeater, you would probably >wish to put it on a circuit breaker by itself. > But ordinary house wiring normally has several outlets wired in series > from one breaker, and is NEC approved that way. > Shop and Industrial become another matter, ha ha ha... > >Wayne WA2YNE > >On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:08:33 -0500, Bruce Bagwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > >> I figured that was A local code, not NEC. The only reason I can think >> of for that requirement is the ampacity of the 12 or 14 ga wires. While >> we all know, in actual use, 2 or more outlets strung along will not all >> have 15 amp or higher loads in EACH outlet. However, theoretically, each >> outlet could have A 20 amp load plugged into it.That is probably why >> some pencil pusher decided each outlet needs its own wire. (Never mind >> the fact the breaker would trip regardless of what is plugged into each >> outlet or the number of wires leading to said outlets, but that's >> another crazy thread) As for the Breaker Box, I would assume each also >> has its own breaker. Trying to stuff more than one wire into A breaker >> would more fun than I care to have. >> >> Bruce >> KE5TPN >> > >-- >Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Gary, I got this info from a local licensed electrican who does a lot of home construction. He was not happy either. My wife owning a hair salon also has seen a number of required changes in your shop. I do not thing there is a breaker for each outlet, but more than one outlet wired to multiple outlets to a single breaker. I had wondered about this since I spoke with the electrician. There are lots of building requirements for homes now in our area that are not standard in most of the US. We have to use concrete block construction, in the past of over 10 years ago one simple layed the blocks. Now in all blocks vertical channels a steel rod must be inserted and connected to the foundation and the hole filled with concrete. A few years ago only a few of these were required, but now all on the outer wall must be. Since huricane Andrew where they found many stick/2x4 built homes that got so easily blown away and the other hurricanes in recent years many building changes have been mandated. Many problems occured due to electical problems causing fires and other hazards and many changes have been made. My home built in 1988 would not even come close to code today. We now cannot use 14-2 w/g wire. It is 14-3 or larger. All breaker boxes must be assible from the outside. Had a friend who was updating his box and found it had to go outside. Definitly increased the cost. There are many many codes not national that must be followed. And for good reason. Would not expect to have all to have to build for high wind in say Chicago. They don't get too many hurricanes up theres. They do get tornados, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Gary Glaenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2008/07/07 Mon AM 08:36:19 EDT >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >Ron; > >That requirement (if it is correct) is NOT part of the NEC > >It would be a local thing, and quite frankly, I feel the original poster of >that info may have incorrect information > >It would, among other things, limit a home to (42 - circuits used for other >than outlets) receptacles, there being only 42 circuit breaker spaces in a >200-amp panel > >Gary > >- Original Message - >From: Ron Wright >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:15 AM >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies > >I am sure there are other reasons for separate wiring to each outlet. The >electric code has many not so obvious reasons for what they do mainly from >experience. > >73, ron, n9ee/r > >: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM > > > Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
It's funny you mention building construction. I work for a company that,
under the original ownership in the 70's, built two identical
facilities, one in California and one in Illinois. I work for the
company in Illinois. The buildings were constructed to California code,
and I'm sure you can imagine the problems we've had with the buildings
in the winter.
Chris
N9XCR
On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 13:12 -0500, Ron Wright wrote:
> Dave,
>
> This is a code requirement here in my county and think all of Florida.
>
> The code requirements for building is a county/state issue and vary.
> Most use the NEC code. Many have additional codes such as having wind
> resistance building. The way homes are constructed in the north would
> not be allowed in Florida mainly due to the wind. This is why we see
> so much concrete block construction with lots of requirements for
> attaching to foundation and roof securing. Just different part of the
> US.
>
> Same with electric code. For various reasons some additional changes
> are often made. Just because you have a code in your area does not
> mean it is in all of US. It is county mostly with some state codes. In
> my county there were NO building codes until the 70s. Can you believe
> this.
>
> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>
> >From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 11:43:50 EDT
> >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
> Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
>
> >
> >Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET
> >REQUIRED? Not in the US> A "dedicated out is required for certain
> >special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere. There are
> certain
> >other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no
> dedicated
> >feeder for each out.
> >
> >Ron Wright wrote:
> >> Gary,
> >>
> >> I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a
> different buss bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was
> sometimes, not now to code, smaller than the neutral. However, both
> got connected to the panel case. One can Ohm out neutral to safety and
> only see the resistance in the wiring to/from the panel. However, as
> you well know, should not be considered the same.
> >>
> >> In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green
> coated, but some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
> >>
> >> Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same
> size as neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being
> safety ground color or bare. Also they are doing something different,
> a separate set of wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no
> more of one wire to one outlet and then from here to another outlet,
> etc. Can you imagine the extra cost and labor. Not sure what they do
> at the breaker panel...put in separate breaker for each outlet. Not
> sure if this NEC code or something to do with the hurricane code we
> have here in Florida. We do lots of construction very different here,
> hi.
> >>
> >> 73, ron, n9ee/r
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Gary Glaenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
> >>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power
> Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here
> (western IL)
> >>> the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type
> cable, and
> >>> may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size
> smaller than
> >>> the 'main' conductors.
> >>>
> >>> Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC
> bus-bar is
> >>> bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the
> one with the
> >>> 'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in
> all
> >>> sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC
> (coded
> >>> green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron Wright, N9EE
> >> 727-376-6575
> >> MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
> >> Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
> >> No tone, all are welcome.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> Ron Wright, N9EE
> 727-376-6575
> MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
> Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
> No tone, all are welcome.
>
>
>
>
>
