Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
Jeff DePolo wrote: >>Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't remember seeing >>anything labeled like that. > > > Kenwood's AIP = "Advanced Intercept Point". It reduces the sensitivity of > the receiver which has the effect of reducing receiver-induced intermod by > lowering the TOIP/compression point. Although I thought it might just be an > attenuator that is switched in, Bob said that what it's really doing is > reducing the gain of the first RF stage (I guess there's an RF amplifier > before the first mixer). > > I didn't get a chance to re-measure my V7A with the AIP turned on yet. I don't remember my G707 having that. Maybe I just missed it...my F6 has it, but it's not labeled AIP, just attenuator. And I never use it, drops sensitivity too much, and there just isn't enough intermod normally to matter...normally. > >>Course, intermod isn't what it used to be either. Through the >>late 70's, >>80's, and early 90's, you couldn't drive through downtown Cleveland >>without hearing intermod on 2M or UHF. With ANY radio. Not a MastrII, >>not a Micor. NOTHING was immune to all those 1/3KW >>IMTS/paging transmitters. > > > You'd think it should be getting BETTER with all of the VHF/UHF paging > activity having dropped off in many areas, IMTS being dead (or in some > cases, the channels re-used for other purposes), etc., but that doesn't seem > to be the case. Go figure. Yeah-that was actually my point. Compared to what it was 10-15 years ago, intermod is almost non-existant around here, for the reasons you mentioned. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
wouldn't it be nice to send code that fast ? :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doh! Fingers run at about 90 WPM, brain tends to lag behind... -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Dengler Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power) At 2/15/2006 09:46 AM, you wrote: Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't remember seeing anything labeled like that. Kenwood's AIP = "Advanced Intercept Point". It reduces the sensitivity of the receiver which has the effect of reducing receiver-induced intermod by lowering the TOIP/compression point. ^ That should be "raising the TOIP/compression point". Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006 -- MZ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. begin:vcard fn:Mark A. Holman n:Holman;Mark A. email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Webmaster, IT Student note;quoted-printable:IT, Student Member IEEE, Life Member ARRL, Assoc. Member SBE, CRO, ARRL= VE=0D=0A= Welcome to the Snowy stuff of Michigan=0D=0A= x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.ab8ru.org version:2.1 end:vcard
RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
Doh! Fingers run at about 90 WPM, brain tends to lag behind... > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Dengler > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:08 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power) > > > At 2/15/2006 09:46 AM, you wrote: > > > Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't > remember seeing > > > anything labeled like that. > > > >Kenwood's AIP = "Advanced Intercept Point". It reduces the > sensitivity > >of the receiver which has the effect of reducing receiver-induced > >intermod by lowering the TOIP/compression point. > ^ > That should be "raising the TOIP/compression point". > > Bob NO6B > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release > Date: 2/15/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
At 2/15/2006 09:46 AM, you wrote: > > Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't remember seeing > > anything labeled like that. > >Kenwood's AIP = "Advanced Intercept Point". It reduces the sensitivity of >the receiver which has the effect of reducing receiver-induced intermod by >lowering the TOIP/compression point. ^ That should be "raising the TOIP/compression point". Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
At 2/15/2006 09:41 AM, you wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Did you try the V7A with AIP on? I have a G707 (very similar RF > > construction IIRC) & found it's performance similar: very sensitive RX but > > horrible IMD performance: spur free dynamic range with AIP off is only 61 > > dB, which is on par with some of my HTs. Turning on AIP raises it to ~70 > > dB while only losing maybe 3 dB of sensitivity, which is OK but my > > FT-8500's SFDR is a couple dB better than that. > >Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't remember seeing >anything labeled like that. "Advanced intercept point". Reduces gain in front-end, increasing the spur-free dynamic range while only degrading noise figure by a modest amount (see above). Hit the function button followed by the dimmer button to toggle it on & off. >And intermod doesn't seem to be much of a problem with it. Much better >then the 80's vintage ham stuff. I beg to differ. 61 dB SFDR is 61 dB SFDR. Put two signals more than 61 dB above the radio's noise floor into the RF input & they will mix. Even the old Icom IC-47A had it beat by a couple of dB in my measurements. "Acceptable" SFDR in my book is better than 72 dB. >Course, intermod isn't what it used to be either. Through the late 70's, >80's, and early 90's, you couldn't drive through downtown Cleveland >without hearing intermod on 2M or UHF. With ANY radio. Not a MastrII, >not a Micor. NOTHING was immune to all those 1/3KW IMTS/paging transmitters. Makes me wonder if they were mixing within their transmitters, emitting on-channel crud. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
> Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't remember seeing > anything labeled like that. Kenwood's AIP = "Advanced Intercept Point". It reduces the sensitivity of the receiver which has the effect of reducing receiver-induced intermod by lowering the TOIP/compression point. Although I thought it might just be an attenuator that is switched in, Bob said that what it's really doing is reducing the gain of the first RF stage (I guess there's an RF amplifier before the first mixer). I didn't get a chance to re-measure my V7A with the AIP turned on yet. > Course, intermod isn't what it used to be either. Through the > late 70's, > 80's, and early 90's, you couldn't drive through downtown Cleveland > without hearing intermod on 2M or UHF. With ANY radio. Not a MastrII, > not a Micor. NOTHING was immune to all those 1/3KW > IMTS/paging transmitters. You'd think it should be getting BETTER with all of the VHF/UHF paging activity having dropped off in many areas, IMTS being dead (or in some cases, the channels re-used for other purposes), etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case. Go figure. --- Jeff Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Did you try the V7A with AIP on? I have a G707 (very similar RF > construction IIRC) & found it's performance similar: very sensitive RX but > horrible IMD performance: spur free dynamic range with AIP off is only 61 > dB, which is on par with some of my HTs. Turning on AIP raises it to ~70 > dB while only losing maybe 3 dB of sensitivity, which is OK but my > FT-8500's SFDR is a couple dB better than that. Ok, I'll bite-what's AIP? I have a G707, and don't remember seeing anything labeled like that. And intermod doesn't seem to be much of a problem with it. Much better then the 80's vintage ham stuff. Course, intermod isn't what it used to be either. Through the late 70's, 80's, and early 90's, you couldn't drive through downtown Cleveland without hearing intermod on 2M or UHF. With ANY radio. Not a MastrII, not a Micor. NOTHING was immune to all those 1/3KW IMTS/paging transmitters. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I was happy to find that the FT-857 will HAPPILY do split-tone. > > Yes, but kind of ridiculous to use an 857 just for VHF/UHF. That's why you just use it for ALL the bands it'll work and enjoy the split-tone feature in the process! ;-) (Ooh, I was s close to getting that ZL1 station the other night at just after midnight with 100w from an ATAS-100, driving home from work... So close... on that wet noodle of an antenna...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
At 2/13/2006 16:01, you wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Speaking of which, I look with despair at Yaesu's newest offering, the > > FT-1802, which STILL doesn't have split tone. We need more complaints > sent > > into the "big 3" about this. > >Know you're probably not looking for such a full-featured rig for mobile >VHF/UHF repeater use... but... > >I was happy to find that the FT-857 will HAPPILY do split-tone. Yes, but kind of ridiculous to use an 857 just for VHF/UHF. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Speaking of which, I look with despair at Yaesu's newest offering, the > FT-1802, which STILL doesn't have split tone. We need more complaints sent > into the "big 3" about this. Know you're probably not looking for such a full-featured rig for mobile VHF/UHF repeater use... but... I was happy to find that the FT-857 will HAPPILY do split-tone. This probably also means that the FT-897 will also, considering they're virtually the same radio. :-) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
At 2/12/2006 08:24, you wrote: > > Did you try the V7A with AIP on? > >No, I didn't, but I'll do that later today if I get a chance. The other ham >rig in my truck is the other Kenwood dual bander (TM-708? getting old and >don't remember model #'s like I used to). I'm not sure but I think that has >the AIP function too. I never dug into it to see how it's designed - is the >AIP feature just a switchable attenuator or something else? Sort of. I think it controls the gain of the 1st RF amp. I do know that the increase in spur free dynamic range is greater than the reduction in S/N when activated. Bob Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
> Did you try the V7A with AIP on? No, I didn't, but I'll do that later today if I get a chance. The other ham rig in my truck is the other Kenwood dual bander (TM-708? getting old and don't remember model #'s like I used to). I'm not sure but I think that has the AIP function too. I never dug into it to see how it's designed - is the AIP feature just a switchable attenuator or something else? --- Jeff Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Radio quality (was RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Power)
At 2/11/2006 19:50, you wrote: >OK, here are the results of my quick bench measurements for whatever it's >worth. >MOBILE RECEIVERS > >Kenwood TM-V7A (my most-hated radio): -125.0 dBm (0.13 uV) >1.3 dB to 6.6 dB. Personally I'd argue that the TM-V7A should be >disqualified too; it has to have the most intermod-prone receiver of any UHF >radio I've ever used. Did you try the V7A with AIP on? I have a G707 (very similar RF construction IIRC) & found it's performance similar: very sensitive RX but horrible IMD performance: spur free dynamic range with AIP off is only 61 dB, which is on par with some of my HTs. Turning on AIP raises it to ~70 dB while only losing maybe 3 dB of sensitivity, which is OK but my FT-8500's SFDR is a couple dB better than that. It does make for a nice travel radio, since when I get out of the metro areas I can turn AIP off & get maximum sensitivity where I need it, in the middle of nowhere. I just wish AIP had more effect. & of course I wish it did "split tone" (different CTCSS encode/decode tones, not Yaesu's incorrect definition). Speaking of which, I look with despair at Yaesu's newest offering, the FT-1802, which STILL doesn't have split tone. We need more complaints sent into the "big 3" about this. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
