RE: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
I have to agree with Chris, this is a technical group; the legalities should not be of concern here. (Unless maybe someone asks for info) I f you are in car dealership, do you ask everyone that is buying a car if they have a drivers license? Unless there is a specific reason then why does everyone assume they are doing something wrong? Do all these people work for the FCC? Just my 2 cents! Probably not even worth that much! -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:01 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub... Chris Carruba wrote: I'm sorry but I cannot resist the following.. um comment / opinion It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such tasks.. I mean really.. get a life and stop policing the list :) Best Regards, Chris Carruba (WQIK389) And what makes me mad is how many people don't bother to look to see if something is legal or not. This case, while I have no doubt they are licensed, the question still remains whether it is legal to repeat one to the other. Cross service repeating is not legal. Repeating a business pool channel to a public safety pool is a no-no. Repeating Part 90 to Part 95 (GMRS) is a no-no. As long as all freqs involved are public safety freqs, all is well. And the UHF is at least FB2 or higher. This is something he has to look into.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
If I'm looking at cars on a showroom floor, and another customer asks for advice on the best spot to drive across the highway median as he leaves the parking lot, I'll warn him that is illegal under most circumstances. I'll do it as a courtesy. I'd want the same heads-up if someone saw me about to walk into quicksand. If a fellow repeater-builder is about to do something that could get him cited and/or fined, it's perfectly appropriate to point it out. Lots of people do things they don't know are illegal. Others intentionally stretch the rules and attempt to blame gray areas. There are times when bringing a potential violation to someone's attention would be done more appropriately off-list, (especially any resulting Part 97 debate which would violate the rules of the list itself,) but that does nothing to dispel the possible misunderstanding of the rules created by the original post among the full group. The FCC says it wants us to be self-policing. That implies we should expect and appreciate occasional pointers from peers who don't work for the FCC. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Craig W Clark To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub... I have to agree with Chris, this is a technical group; the legalities should not be of concern here. (Unless maybe someone asks for info) I f you are in car dealership, do you ask everyone that is buying a car if they have a drivers license? Unless there is a specific reason then why does everyone assume they are doing something wrong? Do all these people work for the FCC? Just my 2 cents! Probably not even worth that much! -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:01 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub... Chris Carruba wrote: I'm sorry but I cannot resist the following.. um comment / opinion It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such tasks.. I mean really.. get a life and stop policing the list :) Best Regards, Chris Carruba (WQIK389) And what makes me mad is how many people don't bother to look to see if something is legal or not. This case, while I have no doubt they are licensed, the question still remains whether it is legal to repeat one to the other. Cross service repeating is not legal. Repeating a business pool channel to a public safety pool is a no-no. Repeating Part 90 to Part 95 (GMRS) is a no-no. As long as all freqs involved are public safety freqs, all is well. And the UHF is at least FB2 or higher. This is something he has to look into.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Chris Carruba wrote: I'm sorry but I cannot resist the following.. um comment / opinion It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such tasks.. I mean really.. get a life and stop policing the list :) Best Regards, Chris Carruba (WQIK389) And what makes me mad is how many people don't bother to look to see if something is legal or not. This case, while I have no doubt they are licensed, the question still remains whether it is legal to repeat one to the other. Cross service repeating is not legal. Repeating a business pool channel to a public safety pool is a no-no. Repeating Part 90 to Part 95 (GMRS) is a no-no. As long as all freqs involved are public safety freqs, all is well. And the UHF is at least FB2 or higher. This is something he has to look into.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
I'm sorry but I cannot resist the following.. um comment / opinion It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such tasks.. I mean really.. get a life and stop policing the list :) Best Regards, Chris Carruba (WQIK389) CompuTec Data Systems Co Administrator irc.spidernet.org http://www.spidernet.org «§» Amateur Radio Programming Discussions RSS files «§» /server irc.spidernet.org /join #radio-prog From: Mike Pugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:32:14 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub... [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote: Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF frequency. I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. Don't set your levels by ear, make sure they are set up correctly, even if you have to pay to have it done. Why? Well, if you use improperly set up equipment on a license you do not hold, such as a volunteer fire frequency or the like, you place the license holder in a bad spot should your station happen to be found in violation because of improper levels or bandwidth. Same way with a converted ham radio, modified to operate out of band. The point of my post is to make sure that your actions don't adversely affect the licenseholder' s license. It may be really tough to explain to the county judge in your county how your actions caused the county to incur a license infraction with the FCC, or worse, a fine, or the loss of a license. I'd step very carefully here if it were me. In all license services except the amateur bands, just because you can wire it together, don't assume it is legal Mike Pugh
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
With all due respect, I personally think that bringing up the subject of proper authorization is totally appropriate and part of the overall process of building a repeater. So often we see someone blindly plunge ahead with a good idea and then they discover adverse ramifications down the road. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such tasks.. I mean really...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Mike Pugh wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF frequency. I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. Hell, it'd be nice to always see PUBLIC SAFETY using rigs that are rated for 100% duty-cycle even. Icom mobiles, just aren't. Personally I stay the away from Public Safety professionals who need assistance of any sort -- who are recommending the use of anything that's not built to take the abuse of 100% duty-cycle for my safety -- and using tax dollars to buy it. (Smaller groups with no budget, okay maybe... but I carefully explain the problem and recommend they go find a real budget somewhere.) I'll gladly pay for the higher priced real repeaters/radios needed for Public Safety links from my taxes. ] I don't want some mobile blowing up and someone getting hurt or not having the comms they need to stay safe. The stuff I've seen installed by professionals sometimes gives me the willies, especially when I know its tied to life-or-death dispatch systems for police and fire. Those folks in the field deserve better engineering than some of the junk I've seen installed... Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Chris Carruba wrote: I'm sorry but I cannot resist the following.. um comment / opinion It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such tasks.. I mean really... *get a life and stop policing the list :)* The ironic thing is that your post is doing the exact same thing, policing the list. (This is always a surprise to people when you point it out to them...) Funny how that works, eh? Just hit delete. :-) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF frequency. Bill - WA0CBW In a message dated 11/29/2008 1:47:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My local Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) has recently obtained a UHF repeater (ICOM CY-F221S). It has two ICOM F221S radios linked together in a nice rack mount box. It has also been set up with a remote mic and speaker off of the outputs on the chassis back panel. The CERT group is licensed for the UHF repeater frequencies and they are in the public service band. They also have a simplex VHF frequency in the PS band (old police frequency) licensed. They have a number of Motorola HT radios (CP200) that operate on the simplex VHF frequency. They are looking at obtaining additional UHF HT radios in the future but would like to be able to use the equipment they have if they can get it to work together. I am familiar enough with electronics to be able to follow directions, but not enough to design anything beyond a basic switch box. I am a network engineer professionally so I am pretty well versed in those areas, and understand logic control pretty well. I am a technician class ham, but don't know a lot about RF as I have not had that much experience in it. I would like to accomplish the following and would love to receive some guidance from someone who has the knowledge to instruct me: I would like to set up a cross band link for them from the UHF repeater, to a VHF radio: This would allow someone on the UHF side to transmit to the repeater, and also cross-band repeat to the VHF side. The VHF side would be able to transmit on the VHF simplex frequency to the cross band side, and it would repeat onto the UHF side. I realize that this would NOT provide VHF to VHF repeating, and that is okay. I want to provide a way that the cross band link can be enabled and disabled by remote DTMF tones so that the bands can be separated when desired. I already have an old Motorola Spectra police radio operating on the VHF side at the site, and it has a dedicated antenna. It puts out 110W which is way too much for what we need. I was thinking about getting an ICOM F121S radio, Astron power supply, and ICS basic controller board. Using the existing VHF antenna, I would hook up the new ICOM (50 watts or less). Now I just need to tie the ICOM repeater, controller, and new radio together into a cross band system of sorts. Am I on the right track? I need some general guidance that can tell me, try this, this, and this. Here is what equipment you could use, and here is how you could tie it together. I have the schematics for the repeater available to me. If I don't want to spend the money for a new ICOM F121S radio, then what else could I connect easily that I can program and would be able to get at a reasonable price. This is all being done as volunteer service so inexpensive is best, but I want to avoid cheap equipment. Thanks for any help you could provide me, 73 Bryan Carter KE7GVJ Kaysville CERT Administration Yahoo! Groups Links **Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0006)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF frequency. I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. Don't set your levels by ear, make sure they are set up correctly, even if you have to pay to have it done. Why? Well, if you use improperly set up equipment on a license you do not hold, such as a volunteer fire frequency or the like, you place the license holder in a bad spot should your station happen to be found in violation because of improper levels or bandwidth. Same way with a converted ham radio, modified to operate out of band. The point of my post is to make sure that your actions don't adversely affect the licenseholder's license. It may be really tough to explain to the county judge in your county how your actions caused the county to incur a license infraction with the FCC, or worse, a fine, or the loss of a license. I'd step very carefully here if it were me. In all license services except the amateur bands, just because you can wire it together, don't assume it is legal Mike Pugh
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
And loss of a license would adversely affect the ability of any PS agency to do their job. You would be essentially putting them out of business. Then, the municipality could come after you for the costs to pay another municipality to cover their area. After all, they only have to pay because YOU made them lose their license, and they are under legal obligation to provide at minimum fire protection (well, at least in PA they are). It can get very expensive very fast. Is it worth losing all your possessions and perhaps doing some jail time over saving a couple hundred or even a couple thousand dollars for doing it right? Also don't forget the suits from anyone adversely affected by the lack of or delayed response from emergency services. They will be in line to sue you, too. And you better pray it's not the county who loses their license - affecting PS agencies in the entire county. I'm sorry... the number you have dialed 9 1 1 is no longer in service. John Smith wanted to save a few bucks. Oh, and if you have a ham license? Write that off, too, as well as any other license you may have held. Joe M. Mike Pugh wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF frequency. I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. Don't set your levels by ear, make sure they are set up correctly, even if you have to pay to have it done. Why? Well, if you use improperly set up equipment on a license you do not hold, such as a volunteer fire frequency or the like, you place the license holder in a bad spot should your station happen to be found in violation because of improper levels or bandwidth. Same way with a converted ham radio, modified to operate out of band. The point of my post is to make sure that your actions don't adversely affect the licenseholder's license. It may be really tough to explain to the county judge in your county how your actions caused the county to incur a license infraction with the FCC, or worse, a fine, or the loss of a license. I'd step very carefully here if it were me. In all license services except the amateur bands, just because you can wire it together, don't assume it is legal Mike Pugh Yahoo! Groups Links
