Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
The battery life of these devices are typically not affected by the device being powered. The battery life is determined primarily by the shelf life of the battery. The battery drains itself more than the device which under standby power, when the Vcc goes below 4.5 V and is powered with at least 2 V to retain memory, draws less than 1 uA. This has been a good feature in some SRAM for over 20 years and Dallas Semiconductor did some excellent jobs with these devices, even with some micorcomputers like the 87C51 series. I've used them in a number of non-ham applications. Just have to get use to addressing them. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2007/11/11 Sun PM 02:28:58 CST >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > >I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly >the "10 years" >spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that >was powered >up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in >the shelf life of the >internal coin cell. > >At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: >>Eric, >> >>As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the >>battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically >>the shelf life of the battery. >> >>Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather >>than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was >>lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of >>the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often >>lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having >>their OS in battery backed RAM. >> >>The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. >> >>73, ron, n9ee/r >> >> >> >> >> >From: "Kevin Berlen, K9HX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST >> >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >> >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem >> >> > >> >What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of >> thesoftware, a Dallas >> >Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As >> Irecall, the >> >smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected >> eprom wasplugged >> >into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, >> it maybe the culprit. 73. >> > >> >Kevin, K9HX >> > >> > >> >At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: >> > >> >One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year >> >since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral >> >other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis >> >powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. >> > >> >One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It >> >started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand >> >secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah >> >..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout >> >30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the >> >repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother >> >audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands >> >on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the >> >telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas >> >dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite >> >to take the beast off the air. >> > >> >As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto >> >give me positive control of the repeater. >> > >> >Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat >> >there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo >> >bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! >> >Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. >> > >> >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY >> > >> > >> > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release >> Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >No virus found in this outgoing message. >> >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: >> 11/9/2007 7:29 PM >> >> >>Ron Wright, N9EE >>727-376-6575 >>MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS >>Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL >>No tone, all are welcome. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
The RC-96 should function with out the clock, just with out time anouncements. On 11/11/07, Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The shelf life is typically ten years. > > *Richard* > *www.n7tgb.net* <http://www.n7tgb.net/> > > > -- > *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mike Morris WA6ILQ > *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > > I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly > the "10 years" > spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that > was powered > up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in > the shelf life of the > internal coin cell. > > At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: > >Eric, > > > >As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the > >battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically > >the shelf life of the battery. > > > >Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather > >than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was > >lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of > >the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often > >lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having > >their OS in battery backed RAM. > > > >The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. > > > >73, ron, n9ee/r > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Kevin Berlen, K9HX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST > > >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > > > > > > > >What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of > > thesoftware, a Dallas > > >Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As > > Irecall, the > > >smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected > > eprom wasplugged > > >into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, > > it maybe the culprit. 73. > > > > > >Kevin, K9HX > > > > > > > > >At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: > > > > > >One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a > year > > >since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral > > >other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis > > >powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. > > > > > >One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > > >started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the > primaryand > > >secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah > dah > > >..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports > forabout > > >30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the > > >repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted > anyother > > >audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my > DTMFcommands > > >on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > > >telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the > repeaterwas > > >dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the > mountaintopsite > > >to take the beast off the air. > > > > > >As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control > linkto > > >give me positive control of the repeater. > > > > > >Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? > Notethat > > >there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that > mightgo > > >bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! > > >Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > > > > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release > > Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: > > 11/9/2007 7:29 PM > > > > > >Ron Wright, N9EE > >727-376-6575 > >MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS > >Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL > >No tone, all are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
The shelf life is typically ten years. Richard <http://www.n7tgb.net/> www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the "10 years" spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: >Eric, > >As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the >battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically >the shelf life of the battery. > >Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather >than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was >lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of >the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often >lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having >their OS in battery backed RAM. > >The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. > >73, ron, n9ee/r > > > > > >From: "Kevin Berlen, K9HX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:k9hx%40arrl.net> > > >Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST > >To: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > > > > >What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of > thesoftware, a Dallas > >Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As > Irecall, the > >smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected > eprom wasplugged > >into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, > it maybe the culprit. 73. > > > >Kevin, K9HX > > > > > >At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: > > > >One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year > >since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral > >other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis > >powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. > > > >One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > >started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand > >secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah > >..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout > >30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the > >repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother > >audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands > >on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > >telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas > >dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite > >to take the beast off the air. > > > >As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto > >give me positive control of the repeater. > > > >Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat > >there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo > >bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! > >Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release > Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM > > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: > 11/9/2007 7:29 PM > > >Ron Wright, N9EE >727-376-6575 >MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS >Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL >No tone, all are welcome. > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the "10 years" spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: >Eric, > >As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the >battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically >the shelf life of the battery. > >Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather >than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was >lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of >the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often >lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having >their OS in battery backed RAM. > >The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. > >73, ron, n9ee/r > > > > > >From: "Kevin Berlen, K9HX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST > >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > > > > >What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of > thesoftware, a Dallas > >Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As > Irecall, the > >smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected > eprom wasplugged > >into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, > it maybe the culprit. 73. > > > >Kevin, K9HX > > > > > >At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: > > > >One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year > >since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral > >other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis > >powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. > > > >One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > >started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand > >secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah > >..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout > >30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the > >repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother > >audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands > >on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > >telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas > >dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite > >to take the beast off the air. > > > >As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto > >give me positive control of the repeater. > > > >Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat > >there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo > >bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! > >Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release > Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM > > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: > 11/9/2007 7:29 PM > > >Ron Wright, N9EE >727-376-6575 >MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS >Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL >No tone, all are welcome. > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
At 11/10/2007 04:02, you wrote: >EPROMs are a bunch of capacitors, yes capacitors, that have a very very >high dielectric resistance. When one programs a cel they are charging the >cel with a voltage usually making a 1 or 0 (depends on the design). Stored charge is involved, but not quite in a capacitive sense. This page provides a pretty good description of what actually goes on inside an EPROM: http://www.tech-faq.com/eprom.shtml Bob NO6B
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
If one is concerned with this one can often take the EPROM out, insert in programmer, read it, erase it (if not OTP) and then re-program it for another life cycle. It is not the EPROM has a life, but the stored info has a finite time it is held or stored. Some EPROMs have the capability of locking them so they cannot be read until a code is sent to them. This code is determined by the designer. This could be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: =?ISO646-US?Q?Bryon_Jeffers_K=3FBSJ?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2007/11/09 Fri PM 09:22:22 CST >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > >Eric, > >Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose it's >stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but >other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old >in it when it started to go crazy... > >Hope this helps! > >Bryon KÃBSJ > >Eric Lemmon wrote: >> One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year >> since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several >> other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is >> powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. >> >> One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It >> started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and >> secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah >> ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about >> 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the >> repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other >> audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands >> on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the >> telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was >> dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site >> to take the beast off the air. >> >> As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to >> give me positive control of the repeater. >> >> Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that >> there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go >> bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! >> Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. >> >> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
Richard, All EEPROMs have a finite life to maintain their programmed info. The earlier ones were in the months time frame (this is in the 70s) and were used for development only. Later in the 80s most were up to 10 years. Today 40 years is common. It is not a factor of the device going bad for it could be reprogrammed. EPROMs are a bunch of capacitors, yes capacitors, that have a very very high dielectric resistance. When one programs a cel they are charging the cel with a voltage usually making a 1 or 0 (depends on the design). When one exposes the cel to the proper narrow band uV light it causes the dielectric to conduct more and bleeds off the charge erasing the cel or EPROM. This is why it takes some time to erase usually 15 minutes. EEPROMs are the same except they have electrical interfaces for selective erasing cels and allowing them to be written to/reprogramed on the fly. However, this requires more electronic and is why EPROMs are larger memory wise than EEPROMs. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2007/11/09 Fri PM 10:23:50 CST >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > >I've never heard of Eproms having a finite lifetime, although I will readily >admit to not being completely knowledgeable of them. There may be differences >in quality, the cheaper ones are simply failing, or maybe the Eprom wasn't >burned properly. An Eprom's principal enemy is static electricity. After being >exposed to it, the damage may be immediately apparent, or it may take days, >weeks or years before manifesting itself. This is the voice of experience, but >that is another story... On the other hand, your report of it starting to work >properly when you power cycled it indicates to me that you had a possible data >corruption in RAM that was cleared out by rebooting. That is very common with >microprocessor based equipment. Richardwww.n7tgb.net >From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >Eric Lemmon >Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:39 PM >To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > > >Bryon, > >Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about EEPROMS having a finite >lifetime- but it sounds reasonable. This RC-96 controller has been in >service for just over 16 years. > >I should have mentioned that, once I disconnected the power to the RC-96 and >reconnected it about 20 seconds later, it responded with the expected >"Controller Ready" announcement. It seemed to be behaving well at that >point, but I took it back to the shop for "forensic investigation" anyway, >rather than walk away thinking everything was okay. > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > >-Original Message- >From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryon Jeffers KÃBSJ >Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > >Eric, > >Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose its >stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but >other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old >in it when it started to go crazy... > >Hope this helps! > >Bryon KÃBSJ > >Eric Lemmon wrote: >> One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a >year >> since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several >> other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is >> powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. >> >> One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It >> started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and >> secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah >> ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about >> 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the >> repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other >> audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands >> on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the >> telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was >> dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop >site >> to take the beast off the air. >> >> As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link >to >> give me positive control of the repeater. >> >> Has
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r >From: "Kevin Berlen, K9HX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem > >What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a >Dallas >Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, >the >smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom >wasplugged >into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the >culprit. 73. > >Kevin, K9HX > > >At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: > >One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year >since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral >other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis >powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. > >One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It >started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand >secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah >..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout >30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the >repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother >audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands >on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the >telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas >dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite >to take the beast off the air. > >As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto >give me positive control of the repeater. > >Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat >there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo >bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! >Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date:11/8/2007 >5:55 PM > > > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 11/9/2007 >7:29 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
I knew it, it's those space aliens! Richard <http://www.n7tgb.net/> www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith McQueen Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem RAM memory is not 100% especially as it ages. Stray gamma rays can corrupt RAM. It's rare here deep in the atmosphere, but it does happen. Satellites have to use hardened RAM for this reason (or as in the case of the HAM microsats, special software routines that continually watch for and correct errors in the RAM memory). It is also possible for RF to affect microprocessor circuitry. Again, if properly constructed and bypassed, this is rare. In older circuitry, the bypass capacitors that shunt noise to ground in computer circuitry, age and lose their efficacy. I'd say if there were no problems before and a reset seems to fix it, give the poor old beast another chance. If the problems re-occur, start looking for aged caps, aged EPROMS etc. Keith McQueen 801-224-9460 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:39 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Bryon, Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about EEPROMS having a finite lifetime- but it sounds reasonable. This RC-96 controller has been in service for just over 16 years. I should have mentioned that, once I disconnected the power to the RC-96 and reconnected it about 20 seconds later, it responded with the expected "Controller Ready" announcement. It seemed to be behaving well at that point, but I took it back to the shop for "forensic investigation" anyway, rather than walk away thinking everything was okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryon Jeffers KØBSJ Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Eric, Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose its stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old in it when it started to go crazy... Hope this helps! Bryon KØBSJ Eric Lemmon wrote: > One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year > since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several > other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is > powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. > > One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and > secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah > ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about > 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the > repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other > audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands > on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was > dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site > to take the beast off the air. > > As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to > give me positive control of the repeater. > > Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that > there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go > bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! > Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
I've never heard of Eproms having a finite lifetime, although I will readily admit to not being completely knowledgeable of them. There may be differences in quality, the cheaper ones are simply failing, or maybe the Eprom wasn't burned properly. An Eprom's principal enemy is static electricity. After being exposed to it, the damage may be immediately apparent, or it may take days, weeks or years before manifesting itself. This is the voice of experience, but that is another story... On the other hand, your report of it starting to work properly when you power cycled it indicates to me that you had a possible data corruption in RAM that was cleared out by rebooting. That is very common with microprocessor based equipment. Richard <http://www.n7tgb.net/> www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:39 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Bryon, Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about EEPROMS having a finite lifetime- but it sounds reasonable. This RC-96 controller has been in service for just over 16 years. I should have mentioned that, once I disconnected the power to the RC-96 and reconnected it about 20 seconds later, it responded with the expected "Controller Ready" announcement. It seemed to be behaving well at that point, but I took it back to the shop for "forensic investigation" anyway, rather than walk away thinking everything was okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryon Jeffers KØBSJ Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Eric, Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose its stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old in it when it started to go crazy... Hope this helps! Bryon KØBSJ Eric Lemmon wrote: > One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year > since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several > other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is > powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. > > One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and > secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah > ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about > 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the > repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other > audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands > on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was > dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site > to take the beast off the air. > > As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to > give me positive control of the repeater. > > Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that > there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go > bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! > Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
RAM memory is not 100% especially as it ages. Stray gamma rays can corrupt RAM. It's rare here deep in the atmosphere, but it does happen. Satellites have to use hardened RAM for this reason (or as in the case of the HAM microsats, special software routines that continually watch for and correct errors in the RAM memory). It is also possible for RF to affect microprocessor circuitry. Again, if properly constructed and bypassed, this is rare. In older circuitry, the bypass capacitors that shunt noise to ground in computer circuitry, age and lose their efficacy. I'd say if there were no problems before and a reset seems to fix it, give the poor old beast another chance. If the problems re-occur, start looking for aged caps, aged EPROMS etc. Keith McQueen 801-224-9460 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:39 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Bryon, Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about EEPROMS having a finite lifetime- but it sounds reasonable. This RC-96 controller has been in service for just over 16 years. I should have mentioned that, once I disconnected the power to the RC-96 and reconnected it about 20 seconds later, it responded with the expected "Controller Ready" announcement. It seemed to be behaving well at that point, but I took it back to the shop for "forensic investigation" anyway, rather than walk away thinking everything was okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryon Jeffers KØBSJ Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Eric, Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose its stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old in it when it started to go crazy... Hope this helps! Bryon KØBSJ Eric Lemmon wrote: > One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year > since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several > other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is > powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. > > One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and > secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah > ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about > 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the > repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other > audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands > on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was > dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site > to take the beast off the air. > > As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to > give me positive control of the repeater. > > Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that > there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go > bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! > Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
Bryon, Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about EEPROMS having a finite lifetime- but it sounds reasonable. This RC-96 controller has been in service for just over 16 years. I should have mentioned that, once I disconnected the power to the RC-96 and reconnected it about 20 seconds later, it responded with the expected "Controller Ready" announcement. It seemed to be behaving well at that point, but I took it back to the shop for "forensic investigation" anyway, rather than walk away thinking everything was okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryon Jeffers KØBSJ Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem Eric, Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose its stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old in it when it started to go crazy... Hope this helps! Bryon KØBSJ Eric Lemmon wrote: > One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year > since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several > other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is > powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. > > One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and > secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah > ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about > 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the > repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other > audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands > on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was > dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site > to take the beast off the air. > > As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to > give me positive control of the repeater. > > Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that > there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go > bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! > Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
I had a RC-850 with the original EEprom board, lost one of the chips and every other word became 'zero' on an ID. Also power surges on the internal power bus can cause random writes to the eeprom with the results you are describing. On 11/9/07, Bryon Jeffers KØBSJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Eric, > > Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose it's > stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but > other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old > in it when it started to go crazy... > > Hope this helps! > > Bryon KØBSJ > > Eric Lemmon wrote: > > One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year > > since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several > > other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is > > powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. > > > > One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > > started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and > > secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah > > ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about > > 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the > > repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other > > audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands > > on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > > telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was > > dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site > > to take the beast off the air. > > > > As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to > > give me positive control of the repeater. > > > > Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that > > there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go > > bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! > > Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
Eric, Eproms are only good for so long.. One or more is starting to lose it's stored/burned bits. I have not had this happen to an ACC controller but other older eprom devices. The last item had a Eprom about ten years old in it when it started to go crazy... Hope this helps! Bryon KØBSJ Eric Lemmon wrote: > One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year > since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several > other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is > powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. > > One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It > started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and > secondary ports: "dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah > ..." for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about > 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the > repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other > audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands > on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the > telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was > dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site > to take the beast off the air. > > As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to > give me positive control of the repeater. > > Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that > there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go > bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! > Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
