[sage-devel] Re: (William Stein) "my top priority right now is to **make a lot of money**"

[Andrew]

Nathan does give the link to the original post, but he is quoting out of 
context. Here is the full post:

On Sunday, 21 August 2016 07:15:56 UTC+10, William wrote:

> So there is no confusion, my top priority right now is to **make a lot 
> of money** by building a profitable company on open source software 
> (Latex, Linux, Sage, Octave, R, etc.), and use that money to fund: 
>
>1. Sage development, 
>
>2. Vastly improve the *documentation* ecosystem around Sage, 
>
>3. Vastly improve the *support* ecosystem around Sage, especially 
> for the masses beyond elite research mathematicians. 
>
> You may strongly disagree with this, or chose not to be involved in 
> Sage (or LInux, say) as a result.  But to be clear -- I'm not hiding 
> this. 
>
>  -- William 
>


On Thursday, 25 August 2016 06:12:56 UTC+10, Nathann Cohen wrote:
>
> Quote from William Stein, CEO of SageMath Inc (private for-profit 
> Delaware company) [1] 
>
> So there is no confusion, my top priority right now is to **make a lot 
> of money** by building a profitable company on open source software 
> (Latex, Linux, Sage, Octave, R, etc.) 
>
> (full post) 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/B3WnJr6S1bw/JQ_jvOITBAAJ 
>
> This post being entirely factual, I shouldn't be held responsible for 
> its content. 
>
> Nathann 
>
> [1] 
> http://www.edgarcompany.sec.gov/servlet/CompanyDBSearch?page=detailed=0001634867_back=23
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] mailing list administration

[William Stein]

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Vincent Delecroix
<20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The mail of Nathann posted on 24 Aug. 2016 [1], [2] cross posted on
> sage-support and sage-devel did not reach sage-devel. My answer to him did
> not reach sage-devel either.
>
> It was clearly not spam. Possibly considered as flame (but the thread was
> not moved to sage-flame). I would be happy to know what happend... And

I deleted it as flame bait.   I'm sick of people using sage-devel as a
forum to attack others.

William

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] mailing list administration

[Johan S . H . Rosenkilde]

The mails seems to have been correctly sent out to subscribers (of
sage-devel). At least a few of us here at SD75 got it. I can't explain
why it's not showing up on the google groups web site.

Best,
Johan

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] mailing list administration

[Vincent Delecroix]

Hello,

The mail of Nathann posted on 24 Aug. 2016 [1], [2] cross posted on 
sage-support and sage-devel did not reach sage-devel. My answer to him 
did not reach sage-devel either.


It was clearly not spam. Possibly considered as flame (but the thread 
was not moved to sage-flame). I would be happy to know what happend... 
And it would be better to take this kind of hard decision with a minimum 
of common agreement (unless google had a bug in its mailing-list 
software ;-).


Best,
Vincent

[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sage-support/Sn_yMvyfmNg
[2] (dead link) 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sage-devel/uMKrfulyAzw



from Nathann:

Quote from William Stein, CEO of SageMath Inc (private for-profit
Delaware company) [1]

So there is no confusion, my top priority right now is to **make a lot
of money** by building a profitable company on open source software
(Latex, Linux, Sage, Octave, R, etc.)

(full post)
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/B3WnJr6S1bw/JQ_jvOITBAAJ

This post being entirely factual, I shouldn't be held responsible for
its content.

Nathann

[1] 
http://www.edgarcompany.sec.gov/servlet/CompanyDBSearch?page=detailed=0001634867_back=23


from me:

Hi Nathann,

But you are responsible for hiding the rest of the message...

- William's strategy is: making money with SageMath Inc and use this 
money to continue (i.e. after having started Sage) building an open 
source ecosystem for mathematical computations.


- Not every Sage developer thinks that SageMath Inc is a good way for 
improving SageMath.


Argued e-mails are much more fruitful than "factual" ones hiding calumnies.

Cheers,
Vincent


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] (William Stein) "my top priority right now is to **make a lot of money**"

[Nathann Cohen]

Hello,

But you are responsible for hiding the rest of the message... 
>

With a link toward the full message follows the quote ? You claim that I 
hid it is rather bold.

- William's strategy is: making money with SageMath Inc and use this 
> money to continue (i.e. after having started Sage) building an open 
> source ecosystem for mathematical computations. 
>

That's what William claims indeed. Conveniently, the two-steps plan starts 
with "making a lot of money".

- Not every Sage developer thinks that SageMath Inc is a good way for 
> improving SageMath. 
>

You tell me.

Argued e-mails are much more fruitful than "factual" ones hiding calumnies. 
>

I provided a quote which I thought worth sharing, and a link toward the 
full message. The rest is up to you all.

Nathann 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] (William Stein) "my top priority right now is to **make a lot of money**"

[Vincent Delecroix]

Hi Nathann,

But you are responsible for hiding the rest of the message...

- William's strategy is: making money with SageMath Inc and use this 
money to continue (i.e. after having started Sage) building an open 
source ecosystem for mathematical computations.


- Not every Sage developer thinks that SageMath Inc is a good way for 
improving SageMath.


Argued e-mails are much more fruitful than "factual" ones hiding calumnies.

Cheers,
Vincent

On 24/08/16 17:12, Nathann Cohen wrote:

Quote from William Stein, CEO of SageMath Inc (private for-profit
Delaware company) [1]

So there is no confusion, my top priority right now is to **make a lot
of money** by building a profitable company on open source software
(Latex, Linux, Sage, Octave, R, etc.)

(full post)
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/B3WnJr6S1bw/JQ_jvOITBAAJ

This post being entirely factual, I shouldn't be held responsible for
its content.

Nathann

[1] 
http://www.edgarcompany.sec.gov/servlet/CompanyDBSearch?page=detailed=0001634867_back=23



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] (William Stein) "my top priority right now is to **make a lot of money**"

[Nathann Cohen]

Quote from William Stein, CEO of SageMath Inc (private for-profit
Delaware company) [1]

So there is no confusion, my top priority right now is to **make a lot
of money** by building a profitable company on open source software
(Latex, Linux, Sage, Octave, R, etc.)

(full post)
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/B3WnJr6S1bw/JQ_jvOITBAAJ

This post being entirely factual, I shouldn't be held responsible for
its content.

Nathann

[1] 
http://www.edgarcompany.sec.gov/servlet/CompanyDBSearch?page=detailed=0001634867_back=23

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: [Yet again] Sage's R vs system's R

[kcrisman]

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 4:54:45 PM UTC-4, leif wrote:
>
> kcrisman wrote: 
> > 
> > Make R optional?  (Nothing in Sage depends on it, except for the 
> > interface to it, including Rpy2.) 
> > 
> > Gosh, R has been standard for*ever*, practically, 
>
> Hört sich nach Schwäbischem Dreiklang an. 
>
>
Not being from southern Germany, I have no idea what you're talking about 
...
 

>
> > and is often heavily 
> > advertised as a good reason to use Sage.  There are certainly many who 
> > have been using them together (as mentioned, obviously nowhere near the 
> > number of "pure" R users, but still we definitely get queries about this 
> > regularly) 
>
> Well, I guess the ratio of R-thru-Sage users to Sage users is as 
> "negligible" as that to pure R users. ;-) 
>
>
Just today:
http://ask.sagemath.org/question/34571/linear-regression-with-r-in-sagemath/

I'm not saying it's a huge user group, but if Sage is actually mathematics 
software and not "people in number theory" software, it would be nice to 
have good stats and the tons of optional R packages just waiting.  It has 
definitely been a selling point in many discussions I've had, and I and 
others have used it ourselves.  Note that even for "brial"/polybori which 
presumably is not a huge user base either we made things work out.

How this relates to "Sage-the-package" versus "Sage-The-distro" I don't 
care as long as it's still in "sage-the-distro".

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: [Yet again] Sage's R vs system's R

[leif]

William Stein wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Erik Bray  wrote:
>> I think almost any dependency that Sage-the-Python-package can work
>> without should be considered "optional" insofar as installing Sage is
>> concerned.  I think it's fine for it to be a stadard part of
>> Sage-the-Distribution.
>>
>> But this gets almost off-topic and in to my preference that Sage
>> development make a stronger distinction between those two things.  End
>> of the day though, I should be able to install Sage-the-Python-package
>> with as few dependencies as possible in order to use it to build
>> applications and code directly on Sage.  Whereas Sage-the-Distribution
>> is more of an end-user thing (in fact I think the OS packaging would
>> do well to make this distinction as well--have a minimal Sage that
>> works, but doesn't necessarily support *all* features, plus a
>> sage-full that is more of a metapackage including all possible
>> dependencies.
> 
> Huge +1.  I strongly agree with all of the above.

A matter of introducing more package "types" (such as "mandatory",
"shipped by default", "installed by default" etc.), and changing mainly
some (build, release and dist) scripts accordingly.  (In addition,
portions of the Sage library would of course have to get adapted as
well, but that's more or less copy-pasting from what we already have,
although we might improve the existing code -- including doctests -- to
become more generic.)


Erik, have you opened some ticket (or thread, wiki page) regarding that?
 (Sage "repackagers" will certainly be interested in such as well.)


-leif

P.S.:  Alternatively using system-provided packages for optional or
mandatory components (and improving the build system w.r.t. version
requirements) is related, but can IMHO be addressed independently.

'./configure ... && make download && make' should just work as one would
perhaps expect, namely making sure all prerequisites (depending on the
configuration) are present (modulo things like e.g. Xcode of course, but
in some cases we could create 'sudo apt-get install ...' scripts for
example).


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: [Yet again] Sage's R vs system's R

[William Stein]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Erik Bray  wrote:
> I think almost any dependency that Sage-the-Python-package can work
> without should be considered "optional" insofar as installing Sage is
> concerned.  I think it's fine for it to be a stadard part of
> Sage-the-Distribution.
>
> But this gets almost off-topic and in to my preference that Sage
> development make a stronger distinction between those two things.  End
> of the day though, I should be able to install Sage-the-Python-package
> with as few dependencies as possible in order to use it to build
> applications and code directly on Sage.  Whereas Sage-the-Distribution
> is more of an end-user thing (in fact I think the OS packaging would
> do well to make this distinction as well--have a minimal Sage that
> works, but doesn't necessarily support *all* features, plus a
> sage-full that is more of a metapackage including all possible
> dependencies.

Huge +1.  I strongly agree with all of the above.

William

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: [Yet again] Sage's R vs system's R

[Erik Bray]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:54 PM, leif  wrote:
> kcrisman wrote:
>>
>> Make R optional?  (Nothing in Sage depends on it, except for the
>> interface to it, including Rpy2.)
>>
>> Gosh, R has been standard for*ever*, practically,
>
> Hört sich nach Schwäbischem Dreiklang an.
>
>
>> and is often heavily
>> advertised as a good reason to use Sage.  There are certainly many who
>> have been using them together (as mentioned, obviously nowhere near the
>> number of "pure" R users, but still we definitely get queries about this
>> regularly)
>
> Well, I guess the ratio of R-thru-Sage users to Sage users is as
> "negligible" as that to pure R users. ;-)
>
> I know of exactly /one/ person who reported errors concerning R because
> he was using (or trying to use) R; all others just had build issues
> (some also doctest failures) with R, and just because it was/is a
> standard package.
>
>
>> and of course optional=untested=broken all too often.
>
> While that's true to some extent, I'd say you confuse cause and effect
> here.  If hardly anybody is interested in a package, it will presumably
> rotten with time, orthogonal to what its type is (except that build and
> test issues with /standard/ packages bug every developer and user, no
> matter whether anybody actually uses them).
>
> What happened to the role of an spkg maintainer by the way?
>
>
>> Take
>> the Maple or Mathematica interfaces and their on-again, off-again
>> nature...
>
> If I'm not mistaken, Sage never shipped Maple nor Mathematica, nor have
> there ever been optional packages of them, unfortunately.  (So we had no
> influence on which version was used either, besides that most developers
> and buildbots simply couldn't test, not to mention develop further.)
>
> Also, Rpy wasn't invented by Sage, and is developed independently by others.
>
>
>> Is this only a Cygwin problem, or on other platforms?  I
>> couldn't see anything about other problems on this thread.
>
> Wait and see.  The prerequisites R removed from its tarball certainly
> won't be present on every system.  We'd at least have to make them
> explicit prerequisites for building Sage(!) if we keep R standard,
> despite (my impression being) that only few people at all need Sage's R.

I think almost any dependency that Sage-the-Python-package can work
without should be considered "optional" insofar as installing Sage is
concerned.  I think it's fine for it to be a stadard part of
Sage-the-Distribution.

But this gets almost off-topic and in to my preference that Sage
development make a stronger distinction between those two things.  End
of the day though, I should be able to install Sage-the-Python-package
with as few dependencies as possible in order to use it to build
applications and code directly on Sage.  Whereas Sage-the-Distribution
is more of an end-user thing (in fact I think the OS packaging would
do well to make this distinction as well--have a minimal Sage that
works, but doesn't necessarily support *all* features, plus a
sage-full that is more of a metapackage including all possible
dependencies.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.