Re: [sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Kwankyu Lee]

I explained to Kwankyu that I mean "mirroring" in the usual sense of this 
word, not the one he thought.


OK. Sage tarballs and the wheels are uploaded to our mirror sites. So wheel 
packages end up in the mirror sites. This is what you say "mirroring PyPI".

You object to "mirroring PyPI", that is, wheel packages. For its 
replacement, you propose to fetch wheels directly from PyPI by switching to 
"pip" packages.
For users installing sage from sage tarball, this (switching to "pip" 
packages) means (again) to assume internet connection at install time. 
Right?

After some thought, now 

(A) "assuming internet connection for users installing from sage tarball" 

sounds a sort of oxymoron, because (A) defeats the purpose of providing 
tarball in the first place. Why tarball? It is for users with no internet 
connection. Otherwise, you can simply download sage source from github by 
git clone and the wheels from PyPI.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 11:10:34 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:

We are discussing your (general) proposal to provide binary wheels for 
packages by mirroring PyPI. 
That is where gigabytes come from. 
E.g. the binary wheels for scipy (with one version of Python) add up to 
about 200Mb.


Nobody proposed to make a change to how we install scipy.

I will not continue to respond in this thread.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Dima Pasechnik]

On 10 June 2024 17:27:55 BST, Matthias Koeppe  wrote:
>On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 7:52:09 AM UTC-7 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>
>This is Dima's response:
>> [...] multi-Gigabyte  territory.
>
>
>For a fact-based discussion, people may want to look at the actual size of 
>the wheels of the only rust-based package that we are discussing. 
>https://pypi.org/project/rpds-py/#files (look for files *-cp*-.whl)
>It's just a few megabytes total.
rpds-py is rather small.

We are discussing your (general) proposal to provide binary wheels for packages 
by mirroring PyPI.
That is where gigabytes come from.
E.g. the binary wheels for scipy (with one version of Python) add up to about 
200Mb.

Dima
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Dima Pasechnik]

On 10 June 2024 17:21:16 BST, Matthias Koeppe  wrote:
>On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 7:37:48 AM UTC-7 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>
>So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ?  
>
>
>I understand "mirroring PyPI"  as what we do with "wheel" packages, that 
>is, delivering the wheel (downloaded from PyPI) of the specified version in 
>the sage tarball.
>
>
>Exactly.

Exactly, what?

 I explained to Kwankyu that I mean "mirroring" in the usual sense of this 
word, not the one he thought.

Dima


>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Demote brial (= polybori) from standard to experimental

[Dima Pasechnik]

+1

On 10 June 2024 17:41:07 BST, Nathan Dunfield  wrote:
>This makes sense to me.
>
>Nathan
>
>On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 2:29:55 PM UTC-5 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>I propose to demote this package to experimental.
>- It has been declared dead at least once -  
>https://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/polybori-is-dead-it-needs-your-help/
>- It has no upstream maintainer (except for ermergency fixes by Francois 
>Bissey) - https://github.com/BRiAl/BRiAl/graphs/contributors, 
>https://sourceforge.net/projects/polybori/
>- It has been dropped from Debian testing, where it seems to block SageMath 
>upgrades (Sage is stuck at 9.5 in Debian/Ubuntu)
>- The conda and homebrew packages of brial lead to segfaults (
>https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35595, 
>https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/34780)
>- It is disconnected from the advances in SMT (satisfiability modulo 
>theories) over the past decade (representative paper: 
>https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.00028v2)
>
>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Demote brial (= polybori) from standard to experimental

[Matthias Koeppe]

I'll remark that the approach of my PR 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36380 takes brial to the same level 
as the existing optional packages bliss, coxeter3, sirocco, tdlib, etc. and 
applies the same approach to the Sage library code depending on the 
library: It defines a separately buildable, pip-installable distribution 
*sagemath-brial*.
The rest of the Sage library, still shipped as *sagemath-standard*, is 
isolated from the problematic dependency on brial.

That's an illustration of how the modularization project improves 
portability and makes it easier for downstream distribution to carry the 
Sage library.

On Sunday, June 9, 2024 at 5:23:05 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

> A milder change, demoting it to optional, is ready for review in 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36380
>
> On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>> I propose to demote this package to experimental.
>> - It has been declared dead at least once -  
>> https://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/polybori-is-dead-it-needs-your-help/
>> - It has no upstream maintainer (except for ermergency fixes by Francois 
>> Bissey) - https://github.com/BRiAl/BRiAl/graphs/contributors, 
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/polybori/
>> - It has been dropped from Debian testing, where it seems to block 
>> SageMath upgrades (Sage is stuck at 9.5 in Debian/Ubuntu)
>> - The conda and homebrew packages of brial lead to segfaults (
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35595, 
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/34780)
>> - It is disconnected from the advances in SMT (satisfiability modulo 
>> theories) over the past decade (representative paper: 
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.00028v2)
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Demote brial (= polybori) from standard to experimental

[Vincent Delecroix]

+1 for me too

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 at 18:41, Nathan Dunfield  wrote:
>
> This makes sense to me.
>
> Nathan
>
> On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 2:29:55 PM UTC-5 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
> I propose to demote this package to experimental.
> - It has been declared dead at least once -  
> https://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/polybori-is-dead-it-needs-your-help/
> - It has no upstream maintainer (except for ermergency fixes by Francois 
> Bissey) - https://github.com/BRiAl/BRiAl/graphs/contributors, 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/polybori/
> - It has been dropped from Debian testing, where it seems to block SageMath 
> upgrades (Sage is stuck at 9.5 in Debian/Ubuntu)
> - The conda and homebrew packages of brial lead to segfaults 
> (https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35595, 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/34780)
> - It is disconnected from the advances in SMT (satisfiability modulo 
> theories) over the past decade (representative paper: 
> https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.00028v2)
>
>
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 7:52:09 AM UTC-7 Kwankyu Lee wrote:

This is Dima's response:
> [...] multi-Gigabyte  territory.


For a fact-based discussion, people may want to look at the actual size of 
the wheels of the only rust-based package that we are discussing. 
https://pypi.org/project/rpds-py/#files (look for files *-cp*-.whl)
It's just a few megabytes total.

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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 7:37:48 AM UTC-7 Kwankyu Lee wrote:

So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ?  


I understand "mirroring PyPI"  as what we do with "wheel" packages, that 
is, delivering the wheel (downloaded from PyPI) of the specified version in 
the sage tarball.


Exactly.

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[sage-devel] Re: Demote brial (= polybori) from standard to experimental

[Nathan Dunfield]

This makes sense to me.

Nathan

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 2:29:55 PM UTC-5 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

I propose to demote this package to experimental.
- It has been declared dead at least once -  
https://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/polybori-is-dead-it-needs-your-help/
- It has no upstream maintainer (except for ermergency fixes by Francois 
Bissey) - https://github.com/BRiAl/BRiAl/graphs/contributors, 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/polybori/
- It has been dropped from Debian testing, where it seems to block SageMath 
upgrades (Sage is stuck at 9.5 in Debian/Ubuntu)
- The conda and homebrew packages of brial lead to segfaults (
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35595, 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/34780)
- It is disconnected from the advances in SMT (satisfiability modulo 
theories) over the past decade (representative paper: 
https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.00028v2)



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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:52 PM Kwankyu Lee  wrote:
>
> This is Dima's response:
>
> > None are relevant:
> > (1) can be trivially achieved without mirroring.
> > (2) is irrelevant here, as creating a tarball with all these binary
> > wheels pushes us into multi-Gigabyte  territory.
> > That is, you'd need prefetch the set of binary wheels for your machine
> > somehow - and again, for this you don't need to mirror PyPI.
>
> In my own words, he seems to be saying that "we don't need to download the 
> wheel and put it into our tarball; we can just call pip to fetch the 
> specified version from internet at install time". To do what he is 
> advocating, all we have to do is to throw away the "no internet for 
> installing from tarball" assumption.
>
> Did I understand you correctly, Dima?

Yes and no: namely, using the proposed mirrored binary wheels will throw away
"no internet for installing from tarball" assumption. just as well.
So there is no difference at this point.

Dima
>
>
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 3:37:48 PM UTC+1 Kwankyu Lee wrote:

So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ?  


I understand "mirroring PyPI"  as what we do with "wheel" packages, that 
is, delivering the wheel (downloaded from PyPI) of the specified version in 
the sage tarball.


This is not mirroring. Mirroring is setting up a site B which in part 
copies content from another site A. Then one says "B is mirroring A".
See examples in upstream/mirror_list.

With binary wheels, creating a reasonable size tarball containing what's 
needed to install Sage on a particular platform easily gets into Gigabytes.
It's also not clear whether the existing mirror structure would allow for 
much more content and traffic - but that's another story.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 2:18 PM Kwankyu Lee  wrote:
>
> To add  variation to this boring discussion, let me intervene:
>
>
> So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ?
>
>
> From this discussion, I guess that the answer is
>
> 1. We want to pin the version of standard package
> 2. We do not want to assume internet connection
>
> Is there other reason, Matthias?
>
> Dima, which of (1) and (2) do you think we can abolish?
>
None are relevant:

(1) can be trivially achieved without mirroring.

(2) is irrelevant here, as creating a tarball with all these binary
wheels pushes us into multi-Gigabyte  territory.
That is, you'd need prefetch the set of binary wheels for your machine
somehow - and again, for this you don't need to mirror PyPI.

Dima

>
>
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Kwankyu Lee]

This is Dima's response:

> None are relevant:
> (1) can be trivially achieved without mirroring.
> (2) is irrelevant here, as creating a tarball with all these binary
> wheels pushes us into multi-Gigabyte  territory.
> That is, you'd need prefetch the set of binary wheels for your machine
> somehow - and again, for this you don't need to mirror PyPI.

In my own words, he seems to be saying that "we don't need to download the 
wheel and put it into our tarball; we can just call pip to fetch the 
specified version from internet at install time". To do what he is 
advocating, all we have to do is to throw away the "no internet for 
installing from tarball" assumption.

Did I understand you correctly, Dima? 



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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Kwankyu Lee]

So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ?  


I understand "mirroring PyPI"  as what we do with "wheel" packages, that 
is, delivering the wheel (downloaded from PyPI) of the specified version in 
the sage tarball.

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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Kwankyu Lee]

To add  variation to this boring discussion, let me intervene:
 

So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ? 


>From this discussion, I guess that the answer is 

1. We want to pin the version of standard package
2. We do not want to assume internet connection

Is there other reason, Matthias?

Dima, which of (1) and (2) do you think we can abolish?


 

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[sage-devel] Re: Current status of possibility of integrating libraries written in Rust into Sage

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 1:53:59 AM UTC+1 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

On Sunday, June 9, 2024 at 5:25:54 PM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:

Is there any Python project which resorts to mirroring binary PyPI wheels?


Sage-the-Python-project does not do this.

Sage-the-distribution does. Distributions do distribution stuff. 

More questions?


You've pulled this line ("Is there any Python project which resorts to 
mirroring binary PyPI wheels?") out of context.
Let me re-iterate.

> And what is the point of this? Why do we need to mirror PyPI?
> Is there any Python project which resorts to mirroring binary PyPI wheels?

So, why do we need to mirror PyPI ? The only "distro" that does it is Sage 
itself, AFAIK.
What are the reasons to believe that it will improve anything? The burden 
of such a move
is quite considerable, on the other hand.

> I think it's a very drastic step, and it needs to be discussed, brought 
up for a vote, etc.

So you don't think this needs any further discussion?

Dima
 

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Re: [sage-devel] Error building package python3-3.11.8

[Dima Pasechnik]

Why do you even need to build Python 3.11? Don't you have system-wide
3.12 which you can use?
It would help if you post full toplevel config.log.

It would also be good to put Sage to a directory which doesn't have
non-ASCII characters in the full path, and no spaces in it - it seems
it's not the case:

[spkg-build] Header file
/home/francois/T\�\�l\�\�chargements/sage-10.4.beta8/local/lib/libffi-3.2.1/include/ffi.h


On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 1:22 AM Laurent anaguet
 wrote:
>
> Hi!
> I tried to install sagemath-10.4-beta8 on xubuntu24.04 but it didn't work. I 
> have a message:
>  Error building package python3-3.11.8. What does it wrong? The file log is 
> in attchment.
> thanks!
>
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Synchronization of GitHub state and priority labels continues on Tuesday July 11th

[seb....@gmail.com]

Currently ther are about 90 open PR's that are not drafts but don't have 
any state label set (see this list 
).
 
Obviously not all of them are authored by developers who cannot set these 
labels because they are not members of Triage. If you are a member of 
Triage and one of your PRs is among them, you should pay attention to what 
will change tomorrow:

1. If you simply forgot to set the s: needs review label, then the bot will 
do it for you in the future.
2. If you intentionally didn't set s: needs review for your PR (for 
example, because you want to check CI results first), then you should open 
your PR as a *draft* in the future (see item 6 here 
)
 
and change its status to r*eady for review* later on (see this page 
).
 
Otherwise, the PR will have the s: needs review label from the start.

seb@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 7. Juni 2024 um 23:54:07 UTC+2:

> *Sorry, typo in the headline: July -> June!*
>
> seb@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 7. Juni 2024 um 23:49:54 UTC+2:
>
>> Dear Sage developers,
>>
>> We will now continue with a process that started last July 
>> . 
>> Unfortunately, this was blocked for many months while we waited for GitHub 
>> to fix a bug in their web-interface. Although this bug is still not fixed 
>> (see this comment on #35927 
>> ), 
>> parts of label sync that are less critical to this bug should continue.
>>
>> As before, the bot will be enabled in several steps. These are tracked in 
>> issue #35927 . We are 
>> moving on to step 3 
>>  
>> and 4 
>> , 
>> the first of which will be enabled next Tuesday. These steps will allow 
>> developers who are not members of the Triage team to have the s: needs 
>> review label on their PRs.
>>
>> Please post comments, suggestions and bug reports on #35927 
>> .
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>

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[sage-devel] cysignals 1.12.0 release candidate

[Matthias Koeppe]

I have prepared a release candidate for cysignals 1.12.0
- https://pypi.org/project/cysignals/1.12.0rc1/
- Removes optional compile-time dependency on PARI/GP

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