[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 8:19:39 AM UTC+2, Martin R wrote:
I'm only trying to understand. Yes, I assume it happens that someone is
using sage as a python library and then possibly only wants repr.
If you use Sage as a Python library then you are in control of the
displayhook. The Python default which will only use __repr__. Your
application can change that of course.
So the point really is that, at least for me personally, having rich_repr
return graphics in the console (for any object, not only graphs) is very
very undesirable.
Presumably you find it desirable to display Graphics() objects (the
return value of plot()) as picture, so there is that.
Of course. Hence, _rich_repr_ (or _repr_) should not return a Graphics
object, right?.
Graphics() is the base class for (2d) graphics in Sage. It does more than
just draw pictures, you can also save them in different image file formats,
play with axes, etc. The _rich_repr_() method never returns Graphics, it
uses its own class hierarchy to encapsulate a particular type of rich
output that is supported by the backend.
sage: p = plot(sin)
sage: type(p)
class 'sage.plot.graphics.Graphics'
sage: p_repr = p.__repr__()
sage: type(p_repr)
type 'str'
sage: dm = sage.repl.rich_output.get_display_manager()
sage: p_rich_repr = p._rich_repr_(dm)
sage: type(p_rich_repr)
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics.OutputImagePng'
sage: dm.preferences.graphics = 'vector'
sage: type(p._rich_repr_(dm))
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics.OutputImagePdf'
sage: dm.supported_output()
frozenset({class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_basic.OutputPlainText',
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_basic.OutputAsciiArt',
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_basic.OutputLatex',
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics.OutputImagePng',
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics.OutputImageGif',
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics.OutputImagePdf',
class 'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics.OutputImageDvi',
class
'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics3d.OutputSceneJmol',
class
'sage.repl.rich_output.output_graphics3d.OutputSceneWavefront'})
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[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
Am Donnerstag, 30. April 2015 05:56:11 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 11:37:38 PM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: Oh, now that's an explanation! So the explanation in the third post on this thread, displayhook: calls __repr__ on the value of the last statement and sends to stdout was a bit misleading. Well that was about plain Python... I'm only trying to understand. Yes, I assume it happens that someone is using sage as a python library and then possibly only wants repr. Thanks for clarifying. (In turn, this begs the question, when is repr used for display instead of rich_repr?) _repr_ is used if an object does not implement _rich_repr_ or if _rich_repr_ does not return anything. OK, so if I'm not mistaken, _repr_ is for the use case just mentioned above, right? So the point really is that, at least for me personally, having rich_repr return graphics in the console (for any object, not only graphs) is very very undesirable. Presumably you find it desirable to display Graphics() objects (the return value of plot()) as picture, so there is that. Of course. Hence, _rich_repr_ (or _repr_) should not return a Graphics object, right?. Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
This is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18289 http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18289#comment:79 On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 2:31:15 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: But then, why doesn't sage: graphs.PetersenGraph() output its repr and launches a viewer instead? Is this because, as you say above, the commandline backend claims to support latex output? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
I have read this thread, but I fail to understand the reason. Eg., there is a commit extrawurst for graphs. I thought that by default all objects would display in the console their repr. The commit seems to indicate that this doesn't work for graphs. Why? Martin Am Mittwoch, 29. April 2015 12:53:01 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: This is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18289 http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18289#comment:79 On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 2:31:15 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: But then, why doesn't sage: graphs.PetersenGraph() output its repr and launches a viewer instead? Is this because, as you say above, the commandline backend claims to support latex output? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
Am Mittwoch, 29. April 2015 02:12:50 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: So, plot(x) would have no side effect, instead I would have to call show() on the result? Slightly weird, but still OK for me. Not sure I understand, so just to clarify: The current behavior is that plot() has no side effects, and p.show() has side effects but no return value. OK, my failure to understand was that I didn't know about the displayhook. Thanks for clarifying. But then, why doesn't sage: graphs.PetersenGraph() output its repr and launches a viewer instead? Is this because, as you say above, the commandline backend claims to support latex output? Martin sage: p = plot(sin) # no side effect, returns graphics object sage: p# displayhook displays graphics def f(): p = plot(sin)# no output p# no output p.show() # displays graphics, no return value pretty_print(p) # displays graphics, no return value plot(sin, show=True) # displays graphics and returns plot I'm not a fan of the show=True (typo: not do_show) optional keyword argument, but apart from that I don't want to change anything else. sage: plot(sin, show=True)# two plots since we explictly display AND the display hook hits return value Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 1 graphics primitive Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 1 graphics primitive -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
I probably don't understand your question, so let me try a different answer in the hopes that that is what you were asking: The _rich_repr_() method is always called by the displayhook. If the object doesn't have one (AttributeError), or if it does not return anything (i.e. returns None) then we fall back to _repr_(). On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: I don't understand this answer. Am I the only one who doesn't get it? If so, don't bother to explain, I'm giving up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
I don't understand this answer. Am I the only one who doesn't get it? If so, don't bother to explain, I'm giving up. (I looked for _rich_repr on trac which gives me 9 tickets, none of which looked like it would explain to me when rich_repr is called, and I searched the online doc for rich_repr, which gave 0 results.) Sorry for probably having wasted your time, Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 9:52:19 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: But why do we get _rich_repr_ on the console in the first place??? * display ascii art as rich representation on the console * launch viewer when a Graphics object hits the displayhook -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 7:16:20 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: I have read this thread, but I fail to understand the reason. Eg., there is a commit extrawurst for graphs. I thought that by default all objects would display in the console their repr. The commit seems to indicate that this doesn't work for graphs. Why? I changed graph._rich_repr_ to return graphics, so right now sage: graphs.PetersenGraph() Launched png viewer for Petersen graph: Graph on 10 vertices only displays graphics (there is a message that an external viewer was launched since that may fail or take a long time). It doesn't output graph._repr_, though it uses it to construct the informational message. In #18289 we will switch it back to graphs displaying as text on the commandline. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
But why do we get _rich_repr_ on the console in the first place??? Martin Am Mittwoch, 29. April 2015 15:48:13 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 7:16:20 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: I have read this thread, but I fail to understand the reason. Eg., there is a commit extrawurst for graphs. I thought that by default all objects would display in the console their repr. The commit seems to indicate that this doesn't work for graphs. Why? I changed graph._rich_repr_ to return graphics, so right now sage: graphs.PetersenGraph() Launched png viewer for Petersen graph: Graph on 10 vertices only displays graphics (there is a message that an external viewer was launched since that may fail or take a long time). It doesn't output graph._repr_, though it uses it to construct the informational message. In #18289 we will switch it back to graphs displaying as text on the commandline. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
Oh, now that's an explanation! So the explanation in the third post on this thread, displayhook: calls __repr__ on the value of the last statement and sends to stdout was a bit misleading. Thanks for clarifying. (In turn, this begs the question, when is repr used for display instead of rich_repr?) So the point really is that, at least for me personally, having rich_repr return graphics in the console (for any object, not only graphs) is very very undesirable. (That's in the already merged ticket #17821, for the record.) So, is this hard to fix? Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 11:37:38 PM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: Oh, now that's an explanation! So the explanation in the third post on this thread, displayhook: calls __repr__ on the value of the last statement and sends to stdout was a bit misleading. Well that was about plain Python... Thanks for clarifying. (In turn, this begs the question, when is repr used for display instead of rich_repr?) _repr_ is used if an object does not implement _rich_repr_ or if _rich_repr_ does not return anything. So the point really is that, at least for me personally, having rich_repr return graphics in the console (for any object, not only graphs) is very very undesirable. Presumably you find it desirable to display Graphics() objects (the return value of plot()) as picture, so there is that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 4:19:25 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: Could you please comment, what you'd like to change? Thats not really the topic but why not... * view() should be renamed to something that is suggestive of what it actually does, maybe pdflatex(). In http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18116 I'm proposing latex(x).compile(), though that ticket doesn't change view() * The commandline backend shouldn't claim to support latex output, so pretty_print(x) wouldn't output implicit latex on the commandline. If anything it is worse than ascii art and plain text in that UI. If you specifically ask for latex output via latex(x) then you will get it of course. * Add a warning (or deprecation) in show() to use pretty_print() instead as it is more indicative of what it actually does. This is #18302 * Similar to latex(), there is a html() function. This should be changed to return the existing html container object instead of the current behavior of printing to stdout and returning the empty html container. This is #18292 Except for plot, the results seem relatively consistent to me, but of course, this may be because I'm using the console. plot(x) essentially just calls x.plot(), and it'll necessarily fail if there is no graphical representation defined. I think that is unavoidable. I'd rather not have a plot(x, do_show=True) optional keyword argument as an abbreviation for plot(x).show(), but then there are definitely bigger fish to fry. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: So, plot(x) would have no side effect, instead I would have to call show() on the result? Slightly weird, but still OK for me. Not sure I understand, so just to clarify: The current behavior is that plot() has no side effects, and p.show() has side effects but no return value. sage: p = plot(sin) # no side effect, returns graphics object sage: p# displayhook displays graphics def f(): p = plot(sin)# no output p# no output p.show() # displays graphics, no return value pretty_print(p) # displays graphics, no return value plot(sin, show=True) # displays graphics and returns plot I'm not a fan of the show=True (typo: not do_show) optional keyword argument, but apart from that I don't want to change anything else. sage: plot(sin, show=True)# two plots since we explictly display AND the display hook hits return value Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 1 graphics primitive Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 1 graphics primitive -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
* view() should be renamed to something that is suggestive of what it actually does, maybe pdflatex(). +1 * Add a warning (or deprecation) in show() to use pretty_print() instead as it is more indicative of what it actually does. This is #18302 +1 * Similar to latex(), there is a html() function. This should be changed to return the existing html container object instead of the current behavior of printing to stdout and returning the empty html container. This is #18292 +1 Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
Am Dienstag, 28. April 2015 16:47:24 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: Thats not really the topic but why not... I'm sorry about having asked an off topic question. I did not realise that I did. * view() should be renamed to something that is suggestive of what it actually does, maybe pdflatex(). In http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18116 I'm proposing latex(x).compile(), though that ticket doesn't change view() OK, makes sense. * The commandline backend shouldn't claim to support latex output, so pretty_print(x) wouldn't output implicit latex on the commandline. If anything it is worse than ascii art and plain text in that UI. If you specifically ask for latex output via latex(x) then you will get it of course. * Add a warning (or deprecation) in show() to use pretty_print() instead as it is more indicative of what it actually does. This is #18302 * Similar to latex(), there is a html() function. This should be changed to return the existing html container object instead of the current behavior of printing to stdout and returning the empty html container. This is #18292 OK, I understand better now. I was afraid of latex() being done away with. Except for plot, the results seem relatively consistent to me, but of course, this may be because I'm using the console. plot(x) essentially just calls x.plot(), and it'll necessarily fail if there is no graphical representation defined. I think that is unavoidable. I'd rather not have a plot(x, do_show=True) optional keyword argument as an abbreviation for plot(x).show(), but then there are definitely bigger fish to fry. So, plot(x) would have no side effect, instead I would have to call show() on the result? Slightly weird, but still OK for me. Thanks for your patience, Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
I set up some examples, together with output in emacs (sage mode), except
for plot.
Could you please comment, what you'd like to change? Except for plot, the
results seem relatively consistent to me, but of course, this may be
because I'm using the console.
Thanks for your patience,
Martin
sage: g = graphs.RandomGNP(20, 0.5)
sage: m = random_matrix(ZZ, 20)
sage: f = sin(x)
sage: D = DyckWords(20).random_element()
sage: Z = ZZ
sage: all = [g,m,f,D,Z]
# 'repr' and 'str' follow the python strangeness, as explained in
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1436703/difference-between-str-and-repr-in-python,
and return a textual representation of the object.
sage: [repr(e) for e in all]
['RandomGNP(20,0.500): Graph on 20 vertices',
'20 x 20 dense matrix over Integer Ring',
'sin(x)',
'[1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0,
0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0]',
'Integer Ring']
sage: [str(e) for e in all]
['RandomGNP(20,0.500)',
'20 x 20 dense matrix over Integer Ring',
'sin(x)',
'((()((()())(()(()()((()()))())((()))',
'Integer Ring']
sage: [ascii_art(e) for e in all]
[RandomGNP(20,0.500): Graph on 20 vertices,
20 x 20 dense matrix over Integer Ring,
sin(x),
/\
/\/\/ \
/\/\ /\/\
/\/\/\/\
/\/\ /\
/\/\ / \
/\/\,
Integer Ring]]
sage: [latex(e) for e in all]
# summarizing :-)
[tikz code of the graph, the matrix as a latex array, \sin\left(x\right),
tikz code of the DyckWord, \Bold{Z}]
sage: [view(e) for e in all]
[None, None, None, None, None]
# but opens a pdf viewer with the latex code typeset.
sage: [pretty_print(e) for e in all]
# no idea what this should do
# in sage 6.5, this seems to always hold html code containing latex code.
sage: [plot(e) for e in all]
# if I understand correctly, it should return a Graphics object, but I'm
not completely sure what precisely this should contain. Possibly:
[a drawing of the graph,
the matrix interpreted as a contourplot???,
a graph of the function with boundaries guessed,
probably raise an error for the DyckWord - or should it try to draw the
word as a path?,
probably raise an error for IntegerRing]
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[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
Am Montag, 27. April 2015 09:07:50 UTC+2 schrieb Nathann Cohen: Thus 'show', whose meaning is quite different from pretty_print, will [...] Is there any concise description (possibly proposed) of what the different output functions should do? I know of the following functions, and have my personal expectations, but I'd be interested in others: __repr__ print latex show view plot ascii_art pretty_print Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Monday, April 27, 2015 at 3:13:31 PM UTC-4, Martin R wrote: * __repr__ (or SageObject._repr_): return a string * print: Immediately sends the output of __repr__ to stdout I think it sends __str__ to stdout. If you define __str__ in addition to __repr__ (allowable but probably something that you should avoid if you can) then yes, print sends the output to __str__ to stdout. If you do not have a separate __str__ method then the output of __repr__ ends up being printed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
On Monday, April 27, 2015 at 4:45:42 AM UTC-4, Martin R wrote:
Is there any concise description (possibly proposed) of what the different
output functions should do? I know of the following functions, and have my
personal expectations, but I'd be interested in others:
__repr__
print
We should be able to agree on these as they are part of the plain Python
language.
* __repr__ (or SageObject._repr_): return a string
* print:Immediately sends the output of __repr__ to stdout
* displayhook: calls __repr__ on the value of the last statement and sends
to stdout
: 123
123 -- displayhook at work
In Sage, the displayhook does more refined things like
sage: plot(sin)
Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 1 graphics primitive
or displaying the graphics inline in various notebooks.
show
pretty_print
Now (#17821): show = pretty_print is like print() but with rich output, so
sage: def f():
...:print(123)
...:pretty_print(plot(sin))
sage: f()
123
Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 1 graphics primitive
Before #17821: show and pretty_print does slightly different and, at least
to me, not very self-explanatory things. For example, in the SageNB
notebook:
g = Graph({1:[2]})
g # a picture of the graph created using tkz - pdf - png if
the typeset checkbox is on
show(g) # a picture of the graph created with matplotlib
pretty_print(g) # tkz picture again, but this time regardless of the
typeset checkbox setting
show(WeylCharacterRing('E8')) # a png picture containing the words the
Weyl Character Ring...
latex
ascii_art
plot
latex() returns a latex code object containing code suitable for
typesetting in a math environment.
ascii_art() returns an ascii art object that can be used as building block
for building larger ascii art displays
plot() returns a graphics object that can be saved or composed into more
complicate graphics
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[sage-devel] Re: Change of semantics for 'show'
Am Montag, 27. April 2015 19:18:35 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: __repr__ print We should be able to agree on these as they are part of the plain Python language. * __repr__ (or SageObject._repr_): return a string * print: Immediately sends the output of __repr__ to stdout I think it sends __str__ to stdout. Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
