[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Kwankyu Lee]

1. We have a low development velocity. For example, some simple PRs sit for 
weeks or months before receiving any review comments. What can we do to 
improve this?


There have always been PRs or trac tickets with no comment for long time. I 
guess most of us had such tickets in trac era. I doubt if there is anything 
for us to do with it, except sage itself attracting more developers as it 
grows. Sorry for being negative.


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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

['Martin R' via sage-devel]

I suggest to remove "no dark arts required", because, at least to me, many 
of the issues I struggle with actually do require very little knowledge of 
mathematics but a considerable amount of knowledge of the way sage works.

Apart from that, I was looking for the tutorial telling me how to convert a 
trac branch into a github PR, it would be good to have it around.

Finally, "*Explore* the open meta-tickets on larger tasks 

 
or topical pages on Algebra , 
Coding Theory , 
Combinatorics , 
Manifolds , Optimization 
, Polyhedral Geometry 
, Symbolics 
." leads to non existing 
pages for Coding theory, Polyhedral Geometry 
 and 
Combinatorics.  I don't know whether these pages exist, but I am also 
slightly sceptical whether there is anybody keeping them up-to-date if they 
do.  In general, I think that labelling hygiene is a better way to achieve 
the same goal.

I really like the quick link to pull requests that  involve me!

Best wishes,

Martin

On Monday 12 February 2024 at 07:42:55 UTC+1 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
> *2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
> - Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
>
>
> Meanwhile I have edited it a bit to offer "suggested activities".
> (This is based on a version of the Trac wiki front page just before the 
> transition to GitHub.)
>
> [image: Screenshot 2024-02-11 at 10.40.35 PM.png]
>
>  
>

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

['Martin R' via sage-devel]

Found the page: 
https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/blob/master/docs/Migration-Trac-to-Github.md

On Monday 12 February 2024 at 14:18:12 UTC+1 Martin R wrote:

> I suggest to remove "no dark arts required", because, at least to me, many 
> of the issues I struggle with actually do require very little knowledge of 
> mathematics but a considerable amount of knowledge of the way sage works.
>
> Apart from that, I was looking for the tutorial telling me how to convert 
> a trac branch into a github PR, it would be good to have it around.
>
> Finally, "*Explore* the open meta-tickets on larger tasks 
> 
>  
> or topical pages on Algebra 
> , Coding Theory 
> , Combinatorics 
> , Manifolds 
> , Optimization 
> , Polyhedral Geometry 
> , Symbolics 
> ." leads to non existing 
> pages for Coding theory, Polyhedral Geometry 
>  and 
> Combinatorics.  I don't know whether these pages exist, but I am also 
> slightly sceptical whether there is anybody keeping them up-to-date if they 
> do.  In general, I think that labelling hygiene is a better way to achieve 
> the same goal.
>
> I really like the quick link to pull requests that  involve me!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Martin
>
> On Monday 12 February 2024 at 07:42:55 UTC+1 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>>
>> *2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
>> - Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile I have edited it a bit to offer "suggested activities".
>> (This is based on a version of the Trac wiki front page just before the 
>> transition to GitHub.)
>>
>> [image: Screenshot 2024-02-11 at 10.40.35 PM.png]
>>
>>  
>>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 3:42:55 PM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

*2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
- Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?


Meanwhile I have edited it a bit to offer "suggested activities".
(This is based on a version of the Trac wiki front page just before the 
transition to GitHub.


The content of the added section does not give new info and seems just 
visual noise to me...



 

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

['Martin R' via sage-devel]

The "math" activity might be useful, but the "documentation" label is 
currently also used for issues that have nothing to do with math.  So 
either relabel those or exclude "documentation".

On Tuesday 13 February 2024 at 08:34:32 UTC+1 Kwankyu Lee wrote:

On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 3:42:55 PM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

*2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
- Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?


Meanwhile I have edited it a bit to offer "suggested activities".
(This is based on a version of the Trac wiki front page just before the 
transition to GitHub.


The content of the added section does not give new info and seems just 
visual noise to me...



 

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:11:14 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

Let's also use this anniversary as an opportunity to discuss what still 
needs improving in our development workflows. 

*1. We have a low development velocity.* For example, some simple PRs sit 
for weeks or months before receiving any review comments. What can we do to 
improve this?


*2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
- Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
- Are the links to Issue and Pull Request queries helpful? 


*3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
- Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot 
set/change labels! 
- This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs 
review".
- Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels 
(https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927)?
- Wishlist item: Component auto-labeler for GitHub PRs 
(https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37373)
- Wishlist item: PR size labeler 
(https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37262)


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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[seb....@gmail.com]

 > *Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels 
(https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927 
)? *

The reason this is blocked is because there is a bug in the GitHub web 
interface that might cause confusion when labels are added or removed by 
the bot. More precisely, the panel with labels is not updated immediately 
after such an action. I have opened two bug reports (2448092 
, 2573072 
). Both were closed 
without a satisfactory answer, only informing that it is a known bug that 
will be fixed one day.


Matthias Koeppe schrieb am Freitag, 16. Februar 2024 um 19:00:52 UTC+1:

> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:11:14 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
> Let's also use this anniversary as an opportunity to discuss what still 
> needs improving in our development workflows. 
>
> *1. We have a low development velocity.* For example, some simple PRs sit 
> for weeks or months before receiving any review comments. What can we do to 
> improve this?
>
> *2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
> - Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
> - Are the links to Issue and Pull Request queries helpful? 
>
>
> *3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
> - Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot 
> set/change labels! 
> - This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs 
> review".
> - Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels (
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927)?
> - Wishlist item: Component auto-labeler for GitHub PRs (
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37373)
> - Wishlist item: PR size labeler (
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37262)
>
>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Kwankyu Lee]

*3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
- Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot 
set/change labels! 
- This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs 
review".


We may drop "needs review" label, and start to use github "draft" 
functionality. This will remove one major obstacle for new contributors.

 

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:02:26 PM UTC-8 Kwankyu Lee wrote:


*3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
- Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot 
set/change labels! 
- This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs 
review".


We may drop "needs review" label, and start to use github "draft" 
functionality. This will remove one major obstacle for new contributors.


I would support this.

Can the status label sync workflow help with this transition, without 
getting in the way? For example, when the _author_ removes the "needs 
review" label (without setting "positive review"), set the PR to "draft"? 


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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[seb....@gmail.com]

This is currently not implemented, but of course possible. But the converse 
can be activated immediately: If a user converts a ready PR to a draft, all 
status labels will be removed. If a draft is marked as *ready for review* 
the s: needs review label is added. Also implemented (but not activated): 
If the s: needs review label is added a draft PR, it is marked as *ready 
for review*.

Matthias Koeppe schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Februar 2024 um 04:26:50 UTC+1:

> On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:02:26 PM UTC-8 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>
>
> *3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
> - Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot 
> set/change labels! 
> - This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs 
> review".
>
>
> We may drop "needs review" label, and start to use github "draft" 
> functionality. This will remove one major obstacle for new contributors.
>
>
> I would support this.
>
> Can the status label sync workflow help with this transition, without 
> getting in the way? For example, when the _author_ removes the "needs 
> review" label (without setting "positive review"), set the PR to "draft"? 
>
>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 10:11:14 AM UTC-8 seb@gmail.com wrote:

can be activated immediately: If a user converts a ready PR to a draft, all 
status labels will be removed. If a draft is marked as *ready for review* 
the s: needs review label is added. Also implemented (but not activated): 
If the s: needs review label is added a draft PR, it is marked as *ready 
for review*.


Sounds good to me, let's do this.

 

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[seb....@gmail.com]

It must be done by a maintainer of the repository (see the desription of 
SYNC_LABELS_IGNORE_EVENTS in  #35172 
). However, 
the restriction regarding the error in the web interface must then be 
accepted.


Matthias Koeppe schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Februar 2024 um 19:22:19 UTC+1:

> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 10:11:14 AM UTC-8 seb@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> can be activated immediately: If a user converts a ready PR to a draft, 
> all status labels will be removed. If a draft is marked as *ready for 
> review* the s: needs review label is added. Also implemented (but not 
> activated): If the s: needs review label is added a draft PR, it is 
> marked as *ready for review*.
>
>
> Sounds good to me, let's do this.
>
>  
>

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 3:11:14 AM UTC+9 seb@gmail.com wrote:

This is currently not implemented, but of course possible. But the converse 
can be activated immediately: 

 

If a user converts a ready PR to a draft, all status labels will be removed.


Do not activate because of the github bug
 

If a draft is marked as *ready for review* the s: needs review label is 
added.


Activate immediately. 

Also implemented (but not activated): If the s: needs review label is added 
a draft PR, it is marked as *ready for review*.


Activate immediately.

Is this selective activation possible?  

If the syncing script should be modified to implement this, please open a 
PR.

 

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Kwankyu Lee]

If a draft is marked as *ready for review* the s: needs review label is 
added.


Activate immediately. 


Sorry. This one is also affected by the github bug. Right? 

If so, not activate. 

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[seb....@gmail.com]

> *Is this selective activation possible?*

No! Activating the *labelled trigger* effects all state and priority 
labels. Even if restriced to the label s: needs review it could be affected 
by the GitHub bug, since the bot will remove a previously selected state 
label.

> *Sorry. This one is also affected by the github bug. Right?*

Yes!


Kwankyu Lee schrieb am Mittwoch, 21. Februar 2024 um 00:47:24 UTC+1:

>
> If a draft is marked as *ready for review* the s: needs review label is 
> added.
>
>
> Activate immediately. 
>
>
> Sorry. This one is also affected by the github bug. Right? 
>
> If so, not activate. 
>

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[sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 12:26:50 PM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

Can the status label sync workflow help with this transition, without 
getting in the way? For example, when the _author_ removes the "needs 
review" label (without setting "positive review"), set the PR to "draft"? 


sync workflow seems not yet ready for the transition because of the bug.

By the way, an author of a PR needs also the ability to remove "needs 
work". Hence the author needs to be in the Triage team anyway in our 
workflow.
 

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[David Lowry-Duda]

On 22:42 Sun 11 Feb 2024, Matthias Koeppe wrote:

*2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?*
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
- Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?


I think the existence of two wikis (i.e. the github wiki and 
https://wiki.sagemath.org/) is confusing.

- DLD

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 6:06 PM David Lowry-Duda  wrote:
>
> On 22:42 Sun 11 Feb 2024, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> >*2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?*
> >https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
> >- Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
>
> I think the existence of two wikis (i.e. the github wiki and 
> https://wiki.sagemath.org/) is confusing.

that's due to the Great GitHub Schism

>
> - DLD
>
> --
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 10:06:59 AM UTC-8 David Lowry-Duda wrote:

On 22:42 Sun 11 Feb 2024, Matthias Koeppe wrote: 
>*2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
>https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki 
>- Are the contents of the wiki front page useful? 

I think the existence of two wikis (i.e. the github wiki and 
https://wiki.sagemath.org/) is confusing.


I agree, and that one needs a separate account to edit 
https://wiki.sagemath.org/ is also unnecessary friction.

https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/33725 has a detailed discussion for 
possible ways of resolving this, please take a look.


 

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 9:20 PM seb@gmail.com 
wrote:

>  > *Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels
> (https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927
> )? *
>
> The reason this is blocked is because there is a bug in the GitHub web
> interface that might cause confusion when labels are added or removed by
> the bot. More precisely, the panel with labels is not updated immediately
> after such an action. I have opened two bug reports (2448092
> , 2573072
> ). Both were closed
> without a satisfactory answer, only informing that it is a known bug that
> will be fixed one day.
>

As far as I know you have an API to manipulate github labels, e.g. it's
supported by gh.
Is this what's used by the bot?

(by the way, your bug reports are not visible - probably only visible to
you.


>
> Matthias Koeppe schrieb am Freitag, 16. Februar 2024 um 19:00:52 UTC+1:
>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:11:14 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>>
>> Let's also use this anniversary as an opportunity to discuss what still
>> needs improving in our development workflows.
>>
>> *1. We have a low development velocity.* For example, some simple PRs
>> sit for weeks or months before receiving any review comments. What can we
>> do to improve this?
>>
>> *2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?*
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
>> - Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
>> - Are the links to Issue and Pull Request queries helpful?
>>
>>
>> *3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
>> - Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot
>> set/change labels!
>> - This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs
>> review".
>> - Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels (
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927)?
>> - Wishlist item: Component auto-labeler for GitHub PRs (
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37373)
>> - Wishlist item: PR size labeler (
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37262)
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[seb....@gmail.com]

The bot uses gh edit to manipulate the labels (see the code here 
).
 
AFAIR I also tried with gh api leading to the same behavior in the web 
interface. In principle these commands work, but the result is not visible 
until you add or edit a comment or refresh the web-page.


*> (by the way, your bug reports are not visible - probably only visible to 
you.*

Thanks for the hint. I've uploaded screen-shots in the header of a 
corresponding PR 36292 
. Here some 
citations of the respond:

December 4th:




*The good news is, our team is already working on a suite of improvements 
to the issues and pull requests experience and this will be resolved as 
result of those changes.Unfortunately I can't share too much about the 
details as it's still being tested internally, but you can keep an eye on 
our changelog for any updates.Thanks for your feedback and I hope this 
quirk doesn't bother your team too much in the meantime.*

February 8th (from the second report where I asked for a status report):





*Thanks for following up. Our engineering team are working on a complete 
overhaul of the issues experience - I've confirmed that this bug is already 
resolved in the new version.I can understand it's frustrating seeing this 
bug persist, but given its upcoming replacement, bug fixes for the current 
issues experience are limited to critical issues that have a significant 
impact. The overhaul is in progress and unfortunately hasn't been publicly 
announced which limits how much detail I can share. I'd suggest keeping an 
eye on our roadmap and changelog for updates.I'm sorry for any 
inconvenience, and please let me know if you have any questions.*

Dima Pasechnik schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Februar 2024 um 00:21:32 UTC+1:

> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 9:20 PM seb@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>>  > *Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels 
>> (https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927 
>> )? *
>>
>> The reason this is blocked is because there is a bug in the GitHub web 
>> interface that might cause confusion when labels are added or removed by 
>> the bot. More precisely, the panel with labels is not updated immediately 
>> after such an action. I have opened two bug reports (2448092 
>> , 2573072 
>> ). Both were 
>> closed without a satisfactory answer, only informing that it is a known bug 
>> that will be fixed one day.
>>
>
> As far as I know you have an API to manipulate github labels, e.g. it's 
> supported by gh.
> Is this what's used by the bot?
>
> (by the way, your bug reports are not visible - probably only visible to 
> you.
>
>
>>
>> Matthias Koeppe schrieb am Freitag, 16. Februar 2024 um 19:00:52 UTC+1:
>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 10:16:58 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:11:14 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>>>
>>> Let's also use this anniversary as an opportunity to discuss what still 
>>> needs improving in our development workflows. 
>>>
>>> *1. We have a low development velocity.* For example, some simple PRs 
>>> sit for weeks or months before receiving any review comments. What can we 
>>> do to improve this?
>>>
>>> *2. Is our community aware of the sagemath/sage GitHub wiki?* 
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki
>>> - Are the contents of the wiki front page useful?
>>> - Are the links to Issue and Pull Request queries helpful? 
>>>
>>>
>>> *3. Are the labels on GitHub Issues / PRs helpful?*
>>> - Note that new contributors who are not in the Triage team cannot 
>>> set/change labels! 
>>> - This includes component labels, but also status labels such as "needs 
>>> review".
>>> - Is it time for the next step with syncing status labels (
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/35927)?
>>> - Wishlist item: Component auto-labeler for GitHub PRs (
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37373)
>>> - Wishlist item: PR size labeler (
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37262)
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: One year of Sage development on GitHub

[Sebastian Oehms]

> *By the way, an author of a PR needs also the ability to remove "needs
work". Hence the author needs to be in the Triage team anyway in our
workflow. *

Not necessarily! If the *synchronizing trigger* is enabled then the bot
would change needs work to  needs review on a non draft PR each time a new
commit is pushed to the branch.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 10:01 AM Kwankyu Lee  wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 12:26:50 PM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
> Can the status label sync workflow help with this transition, without
> getting in the way? For example, when the _author_ removes the "needs
> review" label (without setting "positive review"), set the PR to "draft"?
>
>
> sync workflow seems not yet ready for the transition because of the bug.
>
> By the way, an author of a PR needs also the ability to remove "needs
> work". Hence the author needs to be in the Triage team anyway in our
> workflow.
>
>
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> .
>

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