Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 4:21:38 AM UTC, kcrisman wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:19:39 PM UTC-4, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>
>> I just want to mention that sagenb 1.1.0 comes with docs installed in 
>> SAGE_LOCAL/share...
>> so there is no regression - except I have no idea how to properly link it 
>> from Sage's docs.
>>
>>
> So I just ran into this now that it is not in the "usual" place 
> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html#sagenb.notebook.interact.interact
>
> Now where do we find the interact documentation?  I suppose this is 
> "notebook" but it is in several different interfaces now - sagenb, Jupyter, 
> Sage cell, and CoCalc .sagews worksheets (at least).   I regret not having 
> thought of this when this ticket was under review (or at least I don't 
> recall thinking of it).
>

Please review https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/27495
which provides a proper link to installed sagenb docs in Sage's reference 
manual.
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[dimpase]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 07:12:29AM -0800, kcrisman wrote:
> >
> > http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/repl/sage/repl/ipython_kernel/interact.html
> > http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/prep/Quickstarts/Interact.html
> >
> >
> Thanks; I knew about the second one, since I wrote it :-) but the first one 
> is good to have on hand.
> 
> Unfortunately, that means the only really complete documentation for 
> interact is still in something like Dima's
> 
> file:///mnt/opt/Sage/sage-dev/local/share/doc/sagenb/notebook/interact.html 
> 
> Harald, is there some equivalent to this possible on the website?  Google 
> may otherwise have this old stale one around forever.

It is perfectly possible to link all these 
file:///mnt/opt/Sage/sage-dev/local/share/doc/sagenb/notebook/interact.html 

in the main Reference manual index.rst file; e.g the following
--
--- a/src/doc/en/reference/index.rst
+++ b/src/doc/en/reference/index.rst
@@ -15,6 +15,7 @@ User Interface
 * :doc:`Command Line Interface (REPL) `
 * For the Jupyter notebook interface, visit `its documentation 
`_.
 * For the legacy notebook interface, which is no longer actively maintained, 
visit the `source repository `_.
+* `SageNB `_

 Graphics
 
--

provides this. It's annoying that one must put full paths to the files
there, and not relative ones (cause one cannot get above "sphinx root"
with the relative links :-( )

I searched in vain for a Sphinx solution to this---it's really silly
that one cannot do things like 
`SageNB <$SAGE_LOCAL/share/doc/sagenb/index.html>`_

A good solution should be via autoconf then. We'll have index.rst.in
template to be filled in. I've opened #27495 to handle this.

Dima

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Samuel Lelievre]

Thu 2019-03-07 17:38:09 UTC+1, Thierry:
>
> i am not sure how it is related, but one could imagine to keep an 
> history of Sage documentations of all official releases, with urls like 
> doc.sagemath.org/8.6 and doc.sagemath.org/latest pointing to the current 
> release.

Seconded. For every version of Sage, it would be nice to have
- a Docker image
- a Sage Debian Live iso
- a static version of the documentation 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Thierry]

Hi,

i am not sure how it is related, but one could imagine to keep an
history of Sage documentations of all official releases, with urls like
doc.sagemath.org/8.6 and doc.sagemath.org/latest pointing to the current
release.

Ciao,
Thierry



On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 05:27:43PM +0100, Samuel Lelièvre wrote:
> The web archive ("internet wayback machine") has it.
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20180729211816/http://doc.sagemath.org:80/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html
> 
> Hopefully Harald can adjust how he builds the documentation for 
> doc.sagemath.org
> and have it include the sagenb documentation.
> 
> Samuel
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Samuel Lelièvre]

The web archive ("internet wayback machine") has it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20180729211816/http://doc.sagemath.org:80/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html

Hopefully Harald can adjust how he builds the documentation for doc.sagemath.org
and have it include the sagenb documentation.

Samuel

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[kcrisman]

>
>
>
>
> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/repl/sage/repl/ipython_kernel/interact.html
> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/prep/Quickstarts/Interact.html
>
>
Thanks; I knew about the second one, since I wrote it :-) but the first one 
is good to have on hand.

Unfortunately, that means the only really complete documentation for 
interact is still in something like Dima's

file:///mnt/opt/Sage/sage-dev/local/share/doc/sagenb/notebook/interact.html 

Harald, is there some equivalent to this possible on the website?  Google 
may otherwise have this old stale one around forever.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Samuel Lelievre]

Some documentation for interacts can be found at

http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/repl/sage/repl/ipython_kernel/interact.html
http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/prep/Quickstarts/Interact.html

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:53 PM kcrisman  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 12:01:16 PM UTC-5, Harald Schilly wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 8:36 AM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>>>
>>> > So I just ran into this now that it is not in the "usual" place 
>>> > http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html#sagenb.notebook.interact.interact
>>> >
>>> > Now where do we find the interact documentation?  I suppose this is 
>>> > "notebook" but it is in several different interfaces now - sagenb, 
>>> > Jupyter, Sage cell, and CoCalc .sagews worksheets (at least).   I regret 
>>> > not having thought of this when this ticket was under review (or at least 
>>> > I don't recall thinking of it).
>>>
>>> Harald, do the docs from SAGE_LOCAL/share/doc end up not being copied
>>> over at all?
>>
>>
>> Well. All I do is to apply a small patche to the code and build doc-html and 
>> doc-pdf. Then I copy over all files and generate a few index pages. If there 
>> is something missing I've no idea why that would be.
>
>
> Just to point out that 
> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html
>  still returns 404 file not found  - and there really isn't any other place 
> to find the INTERACT documentation, which is not unique to the old sagenb.  
> Does that documentation exist anywhere else in a nice Sphinx form?

Of course! E.g. on my laptop it is here:
file:///mnt/opt/Sage/sage-dev/local/share/doc/sagenb/notebook/interact.html
And there is no notebook/sagenb/
under
file:///mnt/opt/Sage/sage-dev/local/share/doc/sage/html/en/reference/

- so I don't know how this 404 comes up.

Harald?

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[kcrisman]

On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 12:01:16 PM UTC-5, Harald Schilly wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 8:36 AM Dima Pasechnik  > wrote: 
>
>> > So I just ran into this now that it is not in the "usual" place 
>> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html#sagenb.notebook.interact.interact
>> >
>> > Now where do we find the interact documentation?  I suppose this is 
>> "notebook" but it is in several different interfaces now - sagenb, Jupyter, 
>> Sage cell, and CoCalc .sagews worksheets (at least).   I regret not having 
>> thought of this when this ticket was under review (or at least I don't 
>> recall thinking of it).
>>
>> Harald, do the docs from SAGE_LOCAL/share/doc end up not being copied
>> over at all?
>>
>
> Well. All I do is to apply a small patche to the code and build doc-html 
> and doc-pdf. Then I copy over all files and generate a few index pages. If 
> there is something missing I've no idea why that would be.
>

Just to point out that 
http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html
 
still returns 404 file not found  - and there really isn't any other place 
to find the INTERACT documentation, which is not unique to the old sagenb. 
 Does that documentation exist anywhere else in a nice Sphinx form?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Harald Schilly]

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 8:36 AM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> > So I just ran into this now that it is not in the "usual" place
> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html#sagenb.notebook.interact.interact
> >
> > Now where do we find the interact documentation?  I suppose this is
> "notebook" but it is in several different interfaces now - sagenb, Jupyter,
> Sage cell, and CoCalc .sagews worksheets (at least).   I regret not having
> thought of this when this ticket was under review (or at least I don't
> recall thinking of it).
>
> Harald, do the docs from SAGE_LOCAL/share/doc end up not being copied
> over at all?
>

Well. All I do is to apply a small patche to the code and build doc-html
and doc-pdf. Then I copy over all files and generate a few index pages. If
there is something missing I've no idea why that would be.

-- harald

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 4:21 AM kcrisman  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:19:39 PM UTC-4, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>
>> I just want to mention that sagenb 1.1.0 comes with docs installed in 
>> SAGE_LOCAL/share...
>> so there is no regression - except I have no idea how to properly link it 
>> from Sage's docs.
>>
>
> So I just ran into this now that it is not in the "usual" place 
> http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html#sagenb.notebook.interact.interact
>
> Now where do we find the interact documentation?  I suppose this is 
> "notebook" but it is in several different interfaces now - sagenb, Jupyter, 
> Sage cell, and CoCalc .sagews worksheets (at least).   I regret not having 
> thought of this when this ticket was under review (or at least I don't recall 
> thinking of it).

This is a bug in the scripts that build Sage's website.
(I guess there should also be a link pointing there somewhere, globally)
Ideally, in http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/index.html
there should be a list of all that docs ---  don't know how to
generate it with sphinx,
though.

Harald, do the docs from SAGE_LOCAL/share/doc end up not being copied
over at all?


By the way, to build and put there all the relevant docs, one needs to
build with
SAGE_SPKG_INSTALL_DOCS=yes
But default, I think, it should be set to yes...





>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[kcrisman]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:19:39 PM UTC-4, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> I just want to mention that sagenb 1.1.0 comes with docs installed in 
> SAGE_LOCAL/share...
> so there is no regression - except I have no idea how to properly link it 
> from Sage's docs.
>
>
So I just ran into this now that it is not in the "usual" place 
http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/notebook/sagenb/notebook/interact.html#sagenb.notebook.interact.interact

Now where do we find the interact documentation?  I suppose this is 
"notebook" but it is in several different interfaces now - sagenb, Jupyter, 
Sage cell, and CoCalc .sagews worksheets (at least).   I regret not having 
thought of this when this ticket was under review (or at least I don't 
recall thinking of it).

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Dima Pasechnik]

I just want to mention that sagenb 1.1.0 comes with docs installed in
SAGE_LOCAL/share...
so there is no regression - except I have no idea how to properly link it
from Sage's docs.

Dima

On 28 Oct 2018 1:56 pm, "Erik Bray"  wrote:

On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 10:42 AM François Bissey 
wrote:

>
>
>
> > On 14/10/2018, at 21:37, Vincent Delecroix <20100.delecr...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I am impressed by the number of persons
> > I see still using the legacy notebook.
>
> The whole math department of university of Canterbury (New Zealand) where
> I work for starter. They have heaps of legacy notebooks.
> Each time I try talking about the new notebook the subject is changed.

This is why I have some doubts.  I absolutely agree no one should be
using sagenb for new notebooks.  However, when it comes to converting
old notebooks there remain some deficiencies to the Sage in Jupyter
experience (IMO the documentation shortcomings are the worst, but
definitely fixable).  So I strongly suggest that anyone gung-ho about
eliminating the old sagenb also invest some time on trying to address
some of these issues: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25837


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Erik Bray]

On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 10:42 AM François Bissey  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 14/10/2018, at 21:37, Vincent Delecroix <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I am impressed by the number of persons
> > I see still using the legacy notebook.
>
> The whole math department of university of Canterbury (New Zealand) where
> I work for starter. They have heaps of legacy notebooks.
> Each time I try talking about the new notebook the subject is changed.

This is why I have some doubts.  I absolutely agree no one should be
using sagenb for new notebooks.  However, when it comes to converting
old notebooks there remain some deficiencies to the Sage in Jupyter
experience (IMO the documentation shortcomings are the worst, but
definitely fixable).  So I strongly suggest that anyone gung-ho about
eliminating the old sagenb also invest some time on trying to address
some of these issues: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25837

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Jori Mäntysalo]

On Sun, 14 Oct 2018, François Bissey wrote:

I am impressed by the number of persons I see still using the legacy 
notebook.


The whole math department of university of Canterbury (New Zealand) where
I work for starter. They have heaps of legacy notebooks.


University of Tampere has used legacy notebook for teaching -- a teacher 
has special account for a course, and students share notebooks with that 
account.


But I am figuring out how to set up Jupyterhub with Shibboleth and have 
SageMath as a kernel for that. Currently I have gotten SageMath to be seen 
as a kernel, but it fails to start.


--
Jori Mäntysalo

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[David Lowry]

+1 to the proposal. I think it may be a good idea to have only a brief 
statement about how to convert sws --> ipynb, so that when those who 
currently use sagenb will find transitioning to more up-to-date versions of 
sage simpler.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[François Bissey]

> On 14/10/2018, at 21:37, Vincent Delecroix <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am impressed by the number of persons
> I see still using the legacy notebook.

The whole math department of university of Canterbury (New Zealand) where
I work for starter. They have heaps of legacy notebooks. 
Each time I try talking about the new notebook the subject is changed.

François

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Vincent Delecroix]

I agree with Volker here. Though we should never get rid of the
converter .sws -> .ipynb. I am impressed by the number of persons
I see still using the legacy notebook.

Le 10/10/2018 à 22:18, Volker Braun a écrit :

+1 to unconditional removal. Really its just sending confusing messages to
users looking for help. If you are new to Sage in 2018 you should never
start sagenb.



On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 7:27:59 AM UTC+2, John H Palmieri wrote:


At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to remove
the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the
reference manual. Some reasons for this:

- sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we
want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
- Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell.
Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is
incorrect.
- Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far
as I understand).
- The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components.
The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the
Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be
to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.

Some reasons against this:

- sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other
components like IPython, etc.

By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation
completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to
include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is
built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.

Any comments?

--
John






--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Travis Scrimshaw]

+1 to the proposal on #25382.

Best,
Travis


On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 3:27:59 PM UTC+10, John H Palmieri wrote:
>
> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382 
> ,
>  
> it is being proposed to remove the documentation for the legacy Sage 
> notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>
> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we 
> want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
> incorrect.
> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far 
> as I understand).
> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components. 
> The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the 
> Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be 
> to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>
> Some reasons against this:
>
> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
> components like IPython, etc.
>
> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> John
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Volker Braun]

+1 to unconditional removal. Really its just sending confusing messages to 
users looking for help. If you are new to Sage in 2018 you should never 
start sagenb.



On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 7:27:59 AM UTC+2, John H Palmieri wrote:
>
> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to remove 
> the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the 
> reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>
> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we 
> want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
> incorrect.
> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far 
> as I understand).
> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components. 
> The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the 
> Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be 
> to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>
> Some reasons against this:
>
> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
> components like IPython, etc.
>
> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> John
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[William Stein]

Hi,

I wrote much of sagenb and am why sagenb is currently not optional.
I'm fine with removing it from sage and/or making it optional.

William
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:43 AM Timo Kaufmann  wrote:
>
> I'm also in favor. Besides being more complicated, I think doing something 
> different here for python2 and python3 would be a bad idea.
>
> Am Mittwoch, 10. Oktober 2018 07:27:59 UTC+2 schrieb John H Palmieri:
>>
>> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to remove 
>> the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the 
>> reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>>
>> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we 
>> want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
>> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
>> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
>> incorrect.
>> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far 
>> as I understand).
>> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components. 
>> The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the 
>> Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be 
>> to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>>
>> Some reasons against this:
>>
>> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
>> components like IPython, etc.
>>
>> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
>> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
>> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
>> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> --
>> John
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
William (http://wstein.org)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Timo Kaufmann]

I'm also in favor. Besides being more complicated, I think doing something 
different here for python2 and python3 would be a bad idea.

Am Mittwoch, 10. Oktober 2018 07:27:59 UTC+2 schrieb John H Palmieri:
>
> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to remove 
> the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the 
> reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>
> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we 
> want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
> incorrect.
> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far 
> as I understand).
> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components. 
> The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the 
> Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be 
> to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>
> Some reasons against this:
>
> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
> components like IPython, etc.
>
> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> John
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Dima Pasechnik]

Anyhow, I am for removal these docs from Sage proper,
(and making sagenb optional)
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:09 AM Frédéric Chapoton  wrote:
>
> This is the alternative : what would need to be done to fix the same problem 
> in another way.
>
> Le mercredi 10 octobre 2018 10:08:00 UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 08:16 Frédéric Chapoton,  wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with and support strongly this proposal of removal of sagenb doc, 
>>> which is a step towards having "make" (and not only "make build") being 
>>> working with python3.
>>>
>>> The alternative would require a lot of work on sagenb itself :
>>>
>>> * merge the deprecation pull request there
>>> * release a new sagenb
>>> * make a ticket for upgrading the sagenb in sage
>>> * and then the doc may still be broken as sagenb is not 100% 
>>> python3-compatible (some issues with email remains)
>>
>>
>> I believe this is independent of removal of sagenb docs from Sage proper, no?
>>>
>>>
>>> Frédéric
>>>
>>>
>>> Le mercredi 10 octobre 2018 07:27:59 UTC+2, John H Palmieri a écrit :

 At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to remove 
 the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the 
 reference manual. Some reasons for this:

 - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we 
 want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
 - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
 Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
 incorrect.
 - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far 
 as I understand).
 - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components. 
 The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the 
 Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be 
 to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.

 Some reasons against this:

 - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
 components like IPython, etc.

 By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
 completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
 include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
 built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.

 Any comments?

 --
 John

>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "sage-devel" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Frédéric Chapoton]

This is the alternative : what would need to be done to fix the same 
problem in another way.

Le mercredi 10 octobre 2018 10:08:00 UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 08:16 Frédéric Chapoton,  > wrote:
>
>> I agree with and support strongly this proposal of removal of sagenb doc, 
>> which is a step towards having "make" (and not only "make build") being 
>> working with python3.
>>
>> The alternative would require a *lot of work* on sagenb itself :
>>
>> * merge the deprecation pull request there
>> * release a new sagenb
>> * make a ticket for upgrading the sagenb in sage
>> * and then the doc may still be broken as sagenb is not 100% 
>> python3-compatible (some issues with email remains)
>>
>
> I believe this is independent of removal of sagenb docs from Sage proper, 
> no?
>
>>
>> Frédéric
>>
>>
>> Le mercredi 10 octobre 2018 07:27:59 UTC+2, John H Palmieri a écrit :
>>>
>>> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to 
>>> remove the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from 
>>> the reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>>>
>>> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if 
>>> we want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
>>> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
>>> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
>>> incorrect.
>>> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as 
>>> far as I understand).
>>> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its 
>>> components. The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython 
>>> or the Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal 
>>> would be to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>>>
>>> Some reasons against this:
>>>
>>> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
>>> components like IPython, etc.
>>>
>>> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
>>> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
>>> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
>>> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>>>
>>> Any comments?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> John
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "sage-devel" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 08:16 Frédéric Chapoton,  wrote:

> I agree with and support strongly this proposal of removal of sagenb doc,
> which is a step towards having "make" (and not only "make build") being
> working with python3.
>
> The alternative would require a *lot of work* on sagenb itself :
>
> * merge the deprecation pull request there
> * release a new sagenb
> * make a ticket for upgrading the sagenb in sage
> * and then the doc may still be broken as sagenb is not 100%
> python3-compatible (some issues with email remains)
>

I believe this is independent of removal of sagenb docs from Sage proper,
no?

>
> Frédéric
>
>
> Le mercredi 10 octobre 2018 07:27:59 UTC+2, John H Palmieri a écrit :
>>
>> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to
>> remove the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from
>> the reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>>
>> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if
>> we want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
>> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell.
>> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is
>> incorrect.
>> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as
>> far as I understand).
>> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components.
>> The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the
>> Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be
>> to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>>
>> Some reasons against this:
>>
>> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other
>> components like IPython, etc.
>>
>> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation
>> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to
>> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is
>> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> --
>> John
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Remove sagenb documentation from the reference manual?

[Frédéric Chapoton]

I agree with and support strongly this proposal of removal of sagenb doc, 
which is a step towards having "make" (and not only "make build") being 
working with python3.

The alternative would require a *lot of work* on sagenb itself :

* merge the deprecation pull request there
* release a new sagenb
* make a ticket for upgrading the sagenb in sage
* and then the doc may still be broken as sagenb is not 100% 
python3-compatible (some issues with email remains)

Frédéric


Le mercredi 10 octobre 2018 07:27:59 UTC+2, John H Palmieri a écrit :
>
> At https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/25382, it is being proposed to remove 
> the documentation for the legacy Sage notebook, a.k.a. sagenb, from the 
> reference manual. Some reasons for this:
>
> - sagenb does not work with Python 3, nor does its documentation, so if we 
> want the docs to build with Python 3, we need to delete it.
> - Indeed, sagenb is not really being developed, as far as I can tell. 
> Maintained to some extent, but not developed. Please correct me if this is 
> incorrect.
> - Some distributions remove this from the reference manual already (as far 
> as I understand).
> - The reference manual should be for Sage proper, not for its components. 
> The reference manual doesn't include documentation for IPython or the 
> Jupyter notebook. It does include links to them, and the proposal would be 
> to give as good a link as possible to sagenb.
>
> Some reasons against this:
>
> - sagenb used to be part of Sage, so its role is different from other 
> components like IPython, etc.
>
> By the way, it is straightforward to remove the sagenb documentation 
> completely. It is more complicated and kind of ugly, but possible, to 
> include the docs in the reference manual conditionally on whether Sage is 
> built with Python 2 or Python 3. This is discussed on the ticket.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> John
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.