Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:00:42 AM UTC+2, rjf wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:21:28 PM UTC-7, Volker Braun wrote: >> >> I guess you are really happy about python3, then. >> >> $ python3 >> Python 3.4.1 (default, Sep 7 2014, 11:02:45) >> [GCC 4.9.1 20140813 (Red Hat 4.9.1-7)] on linux >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >> >>> 1/2 >> 0.5 >> >> I don't know what other new features it might have, but this one, it > seems, would > also interfere with Sage. Why can't it just be 1/2 ? > Python's designers decided that rational numbers are too scary to have as builtins. An unaware user could accidentally write a program that grinds to a halt by doing a computation in which denominators grow without bound. Remember, most users cannot be assumed to know the difference between rational and floating-point arithmetic, and it's almost always better to be fast than correct by default (especially in a language that already takes 100 cycles to compute 1 + 1). As a general principle, in any computing system, it should always be the user's responsibility to go out of their way if they want correct. /s Fredrik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Sunday, September 28, 2014 12:00:42 AM UTC+1, rjf wrote: > > >>> 1/2 >> 0.5 >> > I don't know what other new features it might have, but this one, it > seems, would > also interfere with Sage. Why can't it just be 1/2 ? > Because, like most real-world programming languages (or, for that matter, the x86 CPU series), it has no rationals built-in. It will not interfere with Sage just like C division currently does not interfere: Sage integers are different for Python integers (with suitable type promotions to make it easy to use) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:21:28 PM UTC-7, Volker Braun wrote: > > I guess you are really happy about python3, then. > > $ python3 > Python 3.4.1 (default, Sep 7 2014, 11:02:45) > [GCC 4.9.1 20140813 (Red Hat 4.9.1-7)] on linux > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> 1/2 > 0.5 > > I don't know what other new features it might have, but this one, it seems, would also interfere with Sage. Why can't it just be 1/2 ? > On Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:18:29 PM UTC+1, rjf wrote: >> >> To the extent that python's world view affects Sage and its users, it is >> too bad that 1/2 is 0. >> I don't know what percentage of the world's many programming languages >> compute 1/2 >> as 0, but it strikes me as probably a bad design. It was a bad design in >> FORTRAN >> for sure. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
I guess you are really happy about python3, then. $ python3 Python 3.4.1 (default, Sep 7 2014, 11:02:45) [GCC 4.9.1 20140813 (Red Hat 4.9.1-7)] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 1/2 0.5 On Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:18:29 PM UTC+1, rjf wrote: > > To the extent that python's world view affects Sage and its users, it is > too bad that 1/2 is 0. > I don't know what percentage of the world's many programming languages > compute 1/2 > as 0, but it strikes me as probably a bad design. It was a bad design in > FORTRAN > for sure. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:32:24 AM UTC-7, Viviane Pons wrote: > > >> >> >> which is quite common for many programming languages as floats are quite > a messy thing (which is not due to python, floats are messy everywhere). > > > It used to be well known to programmers that you shouldn't compare two floats for "equality" unless you really really know what you are doing. That cures a lot of problems, but not all. Taking a course, or maybe doing some independent reading on numerical computation, computer arithmetic, programming languages ... helps. To the extent that python's world view affects Sage and its users, it is too bad that 1/2 is 0. I don't know what percentage of the world's many programming languages compute 1/2 as 0, but it strikes me as probably a bad design. It was a bad design in FORTRAN for sure. I think Sage may make floats even more confusing because its constituent sub-parts deal with floats in ways that are inconsistent. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
> > > > Then you would know that 1/2 = 0, and that wouldn't trouble you. In > Lisp, 1/2 is > what you would might expect. For example (= (+ 1/2 1/2) 1) returns > t. And Maxima > also knows about 1/2. > In Sage, 1/2 is the fraction 1/2 and so you do have : sage: 1/2 1/2 sage: 1/2+1/2 1 On the sage interface, integers are Sage Integers and not python int. But yes, if you write a .py file that you call with sage, then 1 is a python int and you have: sage: int(1)/int(2) 0 which is quite common for many programming languages as floats are quite a messy thing (which is not due to python, floats are messy everywhere). sage: 0.5+0.5==1. True sage: 3*0.1==0.3 False > > > >> >> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:13:20 AM UTC-5, rjf wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:33:19 PM UTC-7, Chris Seberino wrote: I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. >>> >>> I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using >>> it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, >>> In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. >>> wxmaxima? >>> >>> Thanks for any info. >>> >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Friday, September 26, 2014 10:56:11 AM UTC-7, Chris Seberino wrote: > > > Yes I do use a lot of integration so Maxima is heavily used. Even if that > was *all* I used.wouldn't it still be best > to use Sage instead of wxMaxima? > I suppose if you like the front end, and you don't mind the occasional mistakes introduced by Sage and python. Like 1/2 coming out as 0. There are probably features in the Maxima system or eco-system that you won't see from Sage. > I would guess Sage is better supported plus it has all the rest of the > functionality should I ever need it. > I think the Sage version of Maxima is less well supported in some senses. It is, if I understand the current situation (a) running in a slower Lisp system than is usually used and (b) several version numbers behind. > > Furthermore, I know Python 100x better than Lisp. > Then you would know that 1/2 = 0, and that wouldn't trouble you. In Lisp, 1/2 is what you would might expect. For example (= (+ 1/2 1/2) 1) returns t. And Maxima also knows about 1/2. > > On Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:13:20 AM UTC-5, rjf wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:33:19 PM UTC-7, Chris Seberino wrote: >>> >>> I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't >>> on par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. >>> >>> I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more >>> than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. >>> >> >> I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using >> it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, >> In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
Yes I do use a lot of integration so Maxima is heavily used. Even if that was *all* I used.wouldn't it still be best to use Sage instead of wxMaxima? I would guess Sage is better supported plus it has all the rest of the functionality should I ever need it. Furthermore, I know Python 100x better than Lisp. On Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:13:20 AM UTC-5, rjf wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:33:19 PM UTC-7, Chris Seberino wrote: >> >> I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on >> par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. >> >> I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more >> than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. >> > > I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using it > mostly as a front-end to Maxima, > In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? > > Thanks for any info. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
> > But probably not ideal to go from paper to production in just a few >> weeks along with your other coursework! >> > > >> They are really cool and don't need much more than paper and pencil, or >> in one case small cups that can stack. Worth a peek. >> > > Ok, here's my paper-math tale from the days of walking uphill both ways: > Symbolic integration couldn't help solve this naive physical chemist's > applied spectroscopy problems. Cut-and-weigh-the-chart-paper gave reliable > peak areas every time. Sure beat counting boxes... > > Now I can melt students' brains with peak area ratios to 4 significant > digits obtained using scissors and a balance. (When did I turn into my > father?) > > I've heard this same story from several chemists, though presumably one needs a pretty accurate balance :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:48:41 PM UTC-5, kcrisman wrote: > > > >> > And it was quite likely Pascal being learnt on paper. >> >> For what it is worth, my first programming language was C learned on >> paper, probably around 1981. >> >> > But probably not ideal to go from paper to production in just a few > weeks along with your other coursework! > > They are really cool and don't need much more than paper and pencil, or > in one case small cups that can stack. Worth a peek. > Ok, here's my paper-math tale from the days of walking uphill both ways: Symbolic integration couldn't help solve this naive physical chemist's applied spectroscopy problems. Cut-and-weigh-the-chart-paper gave reliable peak areas every time. Sure beat counting boxes... Now I can melt students' brains with peak area ratios to 4 significant digits obtained using scissors and a balance. (When did I turn into my father?) My students are ever grateful for not having to show spherical harmonics are orthonormal by hand. I am, too! Sage turns them on to new ways of exploring old problems. Maybe some new problems, too. Thanks, Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Thu, 25 Sep 2014, rjf wrote: I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? Installing Sage is quite easy; it took time if you compile it yourself, but in any case it almost always compiles. (Installing LDAP is another story; but not too hard today, for which I am very glad.) I have had problems when trying to install for example PARI or GAP. (Not with Maxima, however, and R always works like charm.) So it is not necessary bad idea to install whole Sage, even if you are going to use just one part of it. -- Jori Mäntysalo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
> > > > > And it was quite likely Pascal being learnt on paper. > > For what it is worth, my first programming language was C learned on > paper, probably around 1981. I had no access to a computer, but I > knew how to read, and somehow obtained a book on C, which I read and > simulated. > > Totally possible - I tried to do this with BASIC in the late 80's but since I didn't have a computer I got bored with it and learned more math instead, I guess :) But probably not ideal to go from paper to production in just a few weeks along with your other coursework! Along these lines, the Hour of Code team at code.org has some great activities for contexts where internet is slow/computers are not sufficient/unreliable. Go to http://code.org/learn and scroll down to "Try 'unplugged' computer science". They are really cool and don't need much more than paper and pencil, or in one case small cups that can stack. Worth a peek. - kcrisman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Jan Groenewald wrote: > Hi > > > > On 25 September 2014 20:01, kcrisman wrote: I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. >>> >>> >>> I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using >>> it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, >>> In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. >>> wxmaxima? >>> >>> Thanks for any info. >>> >> >> >> My hope is that the open-source math ecosystem can have this attitude in >> general - it's not a zero-sum game by any means, at least not at this time. >> And so there are some things that Maxima is not as well suited for as Sage - >> and yes, many people use those things. Or perhaps some instructor needs an >> interface thing. Or (and truly this is nontrivial) the underlying >> programming language *does* make a difference, and Python is just ... >> easier. (For instance, one of my current students learned to program on >> paper, I am told. She did not use a computer for it until she arrived here >> and now she actually knows how to use Python after three weeks - I was not >> the teacher, btw.) >> > > And it was quite likely Pascal being learnt on paper. For what it is worth, my first programming language was C learned on paper, probably around 1981. I had no access to a computer, but I knew how to read, and somehow obtained a book on C, which I read and simulated. -- William > > Regards, > Jan > > -- > .~. > /V\ Jan Groenewald > /( )\www.aims.ac.za > ^^-^^ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
Hi On 25 September 2014 20:01, kcrisman wrote: > I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on >>> par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. >>> >>> I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more >>> than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. >>> >> >> I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using >> it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, >> In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> > > My hope is that the open-source math ecosystem can have this attitude in > general - it's not a zero-sum game by any means, at least not at this > time. And so there are some things that Maxima is not as well suited for > as Sage - and yes, many people use those things. Or perhaps some > instructor needs an interface thing. Or (and truly this is nontrivial) the > underlying programming language *does* make a difference, and Python is > just ... easier. (For instance, one of my current students learned to > program on paper, I am told. She did not use a computer for it until she > arrived here and now she actually knows how to use Python after three weeks > - I was not the teacher, btw.) > > And it was quite likely Pascal being learnt on paper. Regards, Jan -- .~. /V\ Jan Groenewald /( )\www.aims.ac.za ^^-^^ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
> > I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on >> par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. >> >> I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more >> than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. >> > > I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using it > mostly as a front-end to Maxima, > In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? > > Thanks for any info. > > I don't know for Chris what the case is, but Sage currently only uses Maxima directly in calculus for integration, limits, and summation (not derivatives, not plotting, not symbolics or most arbitrary precision numerics any more). Which is of course important, and one could probably use wxMaxima quite nicely for this. In fact, if I had started using computers in collegiate teaching for calculus, perhaps I would have used it. But when I was looking for such a program, it was in number theory, not calculus. (Though I do teach an awful lot of calculus.) I wanted the easiest interface possible, and having students just surf to a website and make a page was awfully easy. I wanted something that was comprehensive, and it was. Naturally, different contexts require different solutions. We are happy to be working on support for people to use Ipython and the Python scientific stack directly in Sage, because that meets some needs. Certainly for many users RStudio is by far superior for their data needs. And so forth - perhaps for many engineers, wxMaxima is the right choice. If so, that is great and useful. But Sage seems to have the comprehensive magic touch, and it keeps on meeting my needs. For instance, the Sage cell is perfect for sending little interactive exercises to students I don't want opening ANY mathematics program, whether in the browser or on the desktop. (Not because they can't learn it, but because it would take far too much time based on their background.) I think many feel the same way about it. My hope is that the open-source math ecosystem can have this attitude in general - it's not a zero-sum game by any means, at least not at this time. And so there are some things that Maxima is not as well suited for as Sage - and yes, many people use those things. Or perhaps some instructor needs an interface thing. Or (and truly this is nontrivial) the underlying programming language *does* make a difference, and Python is just ... easier. (For instance, one of my current students learned to program on paper, I am told. She did not use a computer for it until she arrived here and now she actually knows how to use Python after three weeks - I was not the teacher, btw.) Anyway, Sage is more than a front end to Maxima, even for calculus. And that's not really saying anything bad about Maxima! It just is different, that's all. - kcrisman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:33:19 PM UTC-7, Chris Seberino wrote: > > I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on > par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. > > I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more > than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. > I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? Thanks for any info. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has "failed" as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
Hellooo !!! Thank you for your email. It helps. As a developper, my only contact with 'the users' is through forums like this one or emails I receive from time to time. And those are the users who already contribute in some way. In their vast majority, users live outside of my radars, and it is hard to remember that they exist when we never meet/talk together. In my world, which is the world of research in math/computer science, Sage is something that appears, from time to time, in the conversations. When I meet somebody and ask him "I work on Sage ! Have you heard or it ?", I mostly hear "No, what is that ?". And so it is hard to believe that Sage is useful and all to more than just the developpers, when my daily life proves me that nobody ever heard of it. Soo thank you for your email ! It helps. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
