Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Ok. Will try it out. I did not choose a minimal install. I think I did a server 
install and selected some additional package groups: GNOME, development, system 
tools, and one more which I dont remember.





From: Dave Dykstra 
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 6:11 PM
To: Teh, Kenneth M. <0864eace5c83-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
Cc: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

It worked for me just now to use
download.rockylinux.org/pub/rocky/8/BaseOS/x86_64/os
and select a minimal install.

Dave

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 05:48:10PM +0000, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> I found the repo url.  But no go on the install via the boot iso. It failed 
> to retrieve an rpm after having retrieved several, glib2 in particular. 
> Probably, download infrastructure is in a state of flux (?).  I'll try again 
> later in the week.
>
>
>
> 
> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
>  on behalf of Teh, Kenneth M. 
> <0864eace5c83-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 12:34 PM
> To: Yasha Karant ; scientific-linux-users 
> 
> Subject: Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability
>
> I tried the boot iso but it does not have a built-in list of mirrors. I'm 
> stuck at the installation source.  I need a url, either a specific repo or a 
> url.  Please post if anyone knows one.
>
>
> 
> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
>  on behalf of Yasha Karant 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:06 AM
> To: scientific-linux-users 
> Subject: Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability
>
> Would those who have a spare machine (or more) and who install Rocky EL
> 8.4 please comment to this list.  Some of the questions that might need
> to be answered are below.
>
> How easy was manual disk partitioning?
>
> How easy was selection of options, including the use of those from
> ElRepo et al that are standard repositories of often needed "addons" not
> available from the base distro?
>
> How easy was it to maintain non-systems areas that might be needed
> (e.g., /home , /opt , /usr/local )?
>
> Do applications that are needed and function under SL still function
> (perhaps with later release versions) on Rocky EL 8.4?
>
> After running Rocky EL 8.4 for a bit with a real load of typical
> applications and uses (and users as well), how stable is this distro?
>
> My understanding from previous postings to this list is that the
> problems are not just with a clone port of EL 8, but intrinsic to the
> RHEL 8 from IBM RH.
>
> Yasha Karant
>
> On 6/22/21 8:45 AM, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forums.rockylinux.org_t_rocky-2Dlinux-2D8-2D4-2Davailable-2Dnow&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=Jv3AaE5g_mSo58RbU-YPCu-rFk-eOddCa2WcSsN2i9Q&s=2-1uWNIYIGcgeypV8jS6BidRs_g9QKNNyp9dWKWm_70&e=
> >  
> >
> > Dave
> >

Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I found the repo url.  But no go on the install via the boot iso. It failed to 
retrieve an rpm after having retrieved several, glib2 in particular. Probably, 
download infrastructure is in a state of flux (?).  I'll try again later in the 
week.




From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Teh, Kenneth M. 
<0864eace5c83-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 12:34 PM
To: Yasha Karant ; scientific-linux-users 

Subject: Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

I tried the boot iso but it does not have a built-in list of mirrors. I'm stuck 
at the installation source.  I need a url, either a specific repo or a url.  
Please post if anyone knows one.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Yasha Karant 

Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:06 AM
To: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

Would those who have a spare machine (or more) and who install Rocky EL
8.4 please comment to this list.  Some of the questions that might need
to be answered are below.

How easy was manual disk partitioning?

How easy was selection of options, including the use of those from
ElRepo et al that are standard repositories of often needed "addons" not
available from the base distro?

How easy was it to maintain non-systems areas that might be needed
(e.g., /home , /opt , /usr/local )?

Do applications that are needed and function under SL still function
(perhaps with later release versions) on Rocky EL 8.4?

After running Rocky EL 8.4 for a bit with a real load of typical
applications and uses (and users as well), how stable is this distro?

My understanding from previous postings to this list is that the
problems are not just with a clone port of EL 8, but intrinsic to the
RHEL 8 from IBM RH.

Yasha Karant

On 6/22/21 8:45 AM, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forums.rockylinux.org_t_rocky-2Dlinux-2D8-2D4-2Davailable-2Dnow&d=DwICaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=RGQs2eqv5ebw95F1nVbIcCtySC9IF-N6FeB_gNrbfY8&s=U1iRg1x7zz9eQI5X5MbA8XFNvoCjU5VrsC5ISkZ2Y_4&e=
>
> Dave
>

Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I tried the boot iso but it does not have a built-in list of mirrors. I'm stuck 
at the installation source.  I need a url, either a specific repo or a url.  
Please post if anyone knows one.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Yasha Karant 

Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:06 AM
To: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: Re: Rocky Linux 8.4 General Availability

Would those who have a spare machine (or more) and who install Rocky EL
8.4 please comment to this list.  Some of the questions that might need
to be answered are below.

How easy was manual disk partitioning?

How easy was selection of options, including the use of those from
ElRepo et al that are standard repositories of often needed "addons" not
available from the base distro?

How easy was it to maintain non-systems areas that might be needed
(e.g., /home , /opt , /usr/local )?

Do applications that are needed and function under SL still function
(perhaps with later release versions) on Rocky EL 8.4?

After running Rocky EL 8.4 for a bit with a real load of typical
applications and uses (and users as well), how stable is this distro?

My understanding from previous postings to this list is that the
problems are not just with a clone port of EL 8, but intrinsic to the
RHEL 8 from IBM RH.

Yasha Karant

On 6/22/21 8:45 AM, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forums.rockylinux.org_t_rocky-2Dlinux-2D8-2D4-2Davailable-2Dnow&d=DwICaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=RGQs2eqv5ebw95F1nVbIcCtySC9IF-N6FeB_gNrbfY8&s=U1iRg1x7zz9eQI5X5MbA8XFNvoCjU5VrsC5ISkZ2Y_4&e=
>
> Dave
>

Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] [SL-Users] Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Thanks for your review of CentOS stream. Very helpful.

From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Jose Marques 
<0fd846b4f4be-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 5:57 AM
To: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 

Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] [SL-Users] Re: any update on CERN Linux 
and CentOS-8 situation?

When the Centos 8 news came out, I tried out Centos Stream against our 
configuration. Kickstart and Puppet config needed very little change and I was 
able to bring up a VM in our lab config quite easily.

I have two observations:

1) Updates are sparse, none for ages then a large batch of version updates.
2) Stuff can be broken and remain so for a long while. We use Podman rootless. 
That was broken in the version of Stream I initially installed and remained 
broken for a few weeks until the next chunk of updates. I looked up the issue 
in the RHEL tracker and it had been fixed quickly in Fedora etc. but this did 
not make it to Stream on the same timescale.

My view is that Stream is exactly what RHEL say it is, a development 
distribution to which 3rd parties can contribute to RHEL development and from 
which 3rd parties can base their own distributions. It's not for end users, or 
small organisations that need timely security updates and other fixes and can't 
produce same themselves.

The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland, No: SC013532

On 03/05/2021, 22:14, "Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide on 
behalf of Dave Dykstra"  wrote:

The presentation lists a whole bunch of options and
basically says that they're sticking with something related to RHEL,
will decide later which one, and in the meanwhile we can use CentOS 8
until the end of this year or CentOS 8 stream.

Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I have to second Konstantin on the main drivers for linux. C++ and python.

We've opted to use Fedora for folks who want them (all desktops) but we're 
sticking with CentOS-7 for servers. We have a couple of CentOS-8 appliances but 
we'll be replacing them with BSD.

For those who are curious, updating Fedora is painless. The dnf system-upgrade 
procedure works well and we just push it out using ansible. Usually after 3 
iterations, we start again with a clean install.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Konstantin 
Olchanski 
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:37 AM
To: Bonnie King ; Konstantin Olchanski 
Cc: Dave Dykstra ; scientific-linux-users 

Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?

On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 11:25:22AM +, Bonnie King wrote:
>
> There hasn't been any official statement. On the Fermilab side we are holding 
> discussions and gathering feedback from experiments and other collaborators.
> We are working on it and will make an announcement soon.
>

Ok, thanks. I hope you find the discussions on this mailing list as useful 
input into your deliberations.

I wish it did not take 6 months to sort it out, but I guess (a) with covid, 
everything takes longer (true for me),
and (b) it reflects the size of the doo-doo red hat have stepped on (instead of 
walking around it).

At TRIUMF, my feeling is that there will be further splintering of Linux user 
base, the central
computing group is likely staying with red hat, for the experiments, we replace 
SL6 with Ubuntu,
one big experiment group just upgraded SL6 to CentOS-7 and is likely to stay 
there, for new installs
we offer a choice of Ubuntu or CentOS-8 (with the caveat of no support after 
December). RaspberryPi,
nano-pi, etc is all Raspbian (debian).

Looks like a repeat of the UNIX fragmentation of the 1990-ies, where 
everybody's computer is just slightly
different to cause trouble.

The main driver of linux choice is "latest c++" (c++17, c++20) and "latest 
python".

K.O.



> Bonnie King
>
> 
> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
>  on behalf of Konstantin 
> Olchanski 
> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 9:27 AM
> To: Dave Dykstra
> Cc: scientific-linux-users
> Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 09:35:02PM +, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> > Both Fermilab and CERN have stated that they plan to use CentOS 8 stream
> > for now (or Scientific Linux 7 or CentOS 7) and will evaluate later
> > whether or not to switch to one of the clones.
>
> Interesting. I do not see any information about this and I believe
> I receive both internal and external official communications from CERN.
>
> Do you know who and when made this "centos stream" statement?
>
> K.O.
>
>
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 10:35:18AM -0700, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
> > > Any news or updates on the status of CERN Linux?
> > >
> > > Per https://linux.web.cern.ch/centos8/ CERN users are strongly encouraged
> > > to use CentOS-8 while the same page states that support for CentOS-8 will
> > > end at the end of this year. Update is promised "during Q1 2021", today
> > > we are 1/3 into Q2 2021, and there is no new information.
> > >
> > > The CentOS forums are graveyard quiet. (censored?)
> > >
> > > Any information from the FermiLab side of things? Any information from 
> > > the SL side
> > > of things? Any rumours?
> > >
> > > I opened a support ticket with CERN about this, let's see what they say.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Konstantin Olchanski
> > > Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
> > > Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
> > > Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
>
> --
> Konstantin Olchanski
> Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
> Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
> Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada

--
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada

Re: sudo - was Re: FWIW: AlmaLinux now available.

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

If you need to run a lot of commands as root, the easiest sudo method is simply 
'sudo su -' which makes you into root.  The trailing '-' does a login which 
replaces your environment with root's.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Gilbert E. 
Detillieux 
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 9:19 AM
To: Andrew C Aitchison 
Cc: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: Re: sudo - was Re: FWIW: AlmaLinux now available.

On 2021-04-07 2:11 a.m., Andrew C Aitchison wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021, Yasha Karant wrote:
>
>>  The major issue I find is that everything at the system level is sudo
>> -- however, for Ubuntu, I have found the fixes so that I can become
>> root and do what I need both from a text interface and a GUI interface.
>
> I find sudo on Ubuntu much easier to use than sudo on SL6.
> By default on Ubuntu you can run succeccive sudo commands without
> reentering the password each time.
> I never figured out how to do that with SL.

That doesn't sound like default behaviour for sudo on SL6.  I've been
using it for years, and haven't had the password issue you mention.

Since sudo is pretty old, stable code, there likely aren't any
differences between its implementation in RHEL/SL vs Debian/Ubuntu,
other than the content of the /etc/sudoers file.  I'd check that against
the distro's clean, initial configuration, and see what's broken.

> When I need to use pipes or redirect stdin and stdout as root,
> a simple "sudo bash" first solves those issues.

You can use "sudo -i" to accomplish the same thing, but with perhaps
more "sane" initial setup, since it simulates a login.

Gilbert

--
Gilbert E. DetillieuxE-mail:  
Dept. of Computer ScienceWeb: 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cs.umanitoba.ca_-7Egedetil_&d=DwIDaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=ngvZhv2g2MiFuLwD8Pig29aVZry8YCxwGnF4G1QV_jk&s=npAcwiHQAtZERrcpKjbPYhJrQcqMvbSLkfOIpJGM5Z4&e=
University of Manitoba   Phone:   204-783-1031
Winnipeg MB CANADA  R3T 2N2
For best service, contact .

Re: FWIW: AlmaLinux now available.

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Thank you for the info. Almalinux is a candidate for me. Please continue to 
post your impressions, pros and cons. Thank you.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Lamar Owen 

Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 10:39 AM
To: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: FWIW: AlmaLinux now available.

In the For What It's Worth department:


AlmaLinux stable release is now available.  I've used the
almalinux-deploy shell script (see
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_AlmaLinux_almalinux-2Ddeploy&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=hq9foz2L4CshlaOsNHzzM60DWr_1YvGSF0qEnoC0k7o&s=teuxQD-1A-E4QCqmdXy1WygRoGpwDVd4m-O_pmzzQHo&e=
  for the code) on a couple
of CentOS 8 VMs with good results so far.  For more information:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.almalinux.org&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=hq9foz2L4CshlaOsNHzzM60DWr_1YvGSF0qEnoC0k7o&s=mjMdCudeKjMuuXjOS8bcCYt5IjhGIPjCQdnUUbsSr-0&e=


I'm planning to do the same thing with RockyLinux on another couple of
CentOS 8 VMs, and I'm planning to do the same with Springdale.  This is
for migrating already deployed CentOS 8 only; new deployments around
here are Debian 10, soon to be 11.

Re: Pondering a switch to Debian (2)

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

There's AlmaLinux aka CloudLinux in the news recently. They are already a fork 
of RHEL and not a green fields stsartup like Rocky and are looking to woo 
jilted Centos users.

From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Keith Lofstrom 

Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 7:52 PM
To: William R. Somsky 
Cc: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 

Subject: Re: Pondering a switch to Debian (2)

On Fri, Feb 05, 2021 at 03:59:51PM -0800, Yasha Karant wrote:
> I apologize that you do not see the lack of a way forward to EL 8 or
> other options as a pressing problem in need of a technical solution.
> ...

On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 09:04:25AM -0800, William R. Somsky wrote:
> But is this *specific* thread producing any light?
> Or just generating heat?

Light for some of us; it encourages experimentation and
learning, perhaps preparation.

I'm converting one of my servers to Debian, and keeping
track of the difficulties.  Mostly, cleaning up after
decades of accumulated bad habits and cruft; "apt"
rather than "yum" hasn't been a big deal.  Yet.

That will keep me busy until the Big Bosses at CERN and
Fermilabs tell the underlings which way to jump.  If the
jump is off a cliff, I may have a parachute ready.  If
the jump is to Production Ready Rocky, at least I've found
some uneeded-transition-inspired improvements.

Keith

--
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

Re: Update from Rocky EL

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Hear hear!

From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Lamar Owen 

Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:04 AM
To: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: Re: Update from Rocky EL

On 12/16/20 9:55 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
> ... The question I raised still needs to be addressed:  will Rocky EL
> be done by paid professionals (as with SL or Springdale Princeton EL)
> or will it be done by volunteers, some (many) of whom are "amateurs"?
> I am very concerned about the use in a production professional
> environment of an "amateur" port of RHEL.  ...
Conflating "amateur" with a lack of quality and "professional" with high
quality and guaranteed support is provably fallacious.

One of the very first RHEL rebuilds, White Box Enterprise Linux, was, to
use your notation, a "professional" production, sponsored by and for the
Beauregard Parish Public Library in DeRidder, Louisiana (read "County"
where they write "Parish," it's a Louisiana thing); see
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__distrowatch.com_-3Fnewsid-3D01205&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=JTBeF2QPN2-NB4l7sB0VdZhNuE_mxophQaMcRPYwn5E&s=se-D6Q6pwAPkByDwIbTumyo9JAE46Eo5L8V6yTTzYvY&e=

But being "professional" didn't guarantee success; the last release was
in 2007.  The "amateur" CentOS ended up with far better support with
mostly volunteers.  I have liked and respected the Scientific Linux
developers and their attitude for quite some time, but it honestly
wasn't a surprise to me when it was announced that there would be no
SL8.  The SL community seems to expect long-term support for any
arbitrary point release; that is really unsustainable with a small staff
and budget.

"Amateurs" can afford to dedicate more time in some cases than
"professionals;" in my own field at $dayjob the whole science of radio
astronomy owes its very existence to a talented and persistent amateur
by the name of Grote Reber.  Sure, Jansky made the initial discovery
while on Bell Labs' payroll (as a "professional" he had to follow his
employer's money and go to the next project); Reber did the legwork and
got others interested, paving the way for "professional" radio astronomers.

In another major area of physics, thermodynamics, medical doctor Julius
von Mayer was overshadowed by James Joule; it didn't help that von Mayer
was a medical doctor, not a "professional" physicist. (a good overview
of that history:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Mechanical-5Fequivalent-5Fof-5Fheat-23Priority&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=JTBeF2QPN2-NB4l7sB0VdZhNuE_mxophQaMcRPYwn5E&s=p0ZIGrcPxwlbndK4YUIC_ynHLup-BPnuyhqss6Ez9pY&e=
  ).

In computer science (using the non-ACM generalized definition of that
term), well, all I need to say is "Linus Torvalds."  The very kernel you
run was an "amateur" creation, and for a number of years had no
"professional" support.  Likewise, the Debian distribution was started
by "amateurs" and still has many "amateur" contributors; Ubuntu, a
supposedly "professionally"-supported distribution bases its work on the
"amateur" Debian; a chain is no stronger than its weakest link, and if
any part of even a "professional" distribution is supported by
"amateurs" ... "professional" Linux distribution support is a house of
cards built on an "amateur" foundation.  It reminds me of the reasoning
in Ken Thompson's Turing Award acceptance lecture "Reflections on
Trusting Trust" (
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.cs.cmu.edu_-7Erdriley_487_papers_Thompson-5F1984-5FReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=JTBeF2QPN2-NB4l7sB0VdZhNuE_mxophQaMcRPYwn5E&s=-rEo5cSVS2fhIGxF42uFd_CWmc6DGwZNL3uLrDtYeL4&e=
).

One problem with relying on "professional" staff is that the entity
paying that staff has direct oversight into how much time they spend on
those problems; the funding entity's goals and any particular end user's
goals may differ dramatically, and the goals of the funder will trump
the goals of the user.  A second problem is that the same "professional"
staff can be hired away by another company.  A third problem is that
"professionals" expect to be paid; where does the salary come from?  The
fourth problem is since there is very likely to be fewer "professional"
staff supporting a revenue-negative project, each "professional" becomes
extremely important or maybe even indispensible, and the project might
have a hard time surviving a "bus incident" or even a major hurricane.
I've witnessed all four of these issues first-hand  RIP Seth.

The problem with "amateurs" is that they can quite literally walk away
without it negatively impacting their livelihood, and they're going to
work on what interests them, whether it interests the end

Re: Springdale Linux

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Software collections has gcc-9. If memory serves, SL7 has gcc-4.8.

From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Yasha Karant 

Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 2:44 PM
To: scientific-linux-users@fnal.gov 
Subject: Re: Springdale Linux

Thank you for quoting from the Princeton material.  I had read the
Princeton commentary a while ago when internally we were debating SL vs.
Princeton, and went with SL because Fermilab/CERN combined have better
resources than Princeton alone.  The one thing I did note and have
mentioned on this list, if memory serves, was that SL8 was to be
replaced by (the now to-be-defunct) CentOS 8, for which the comment that
such RPMs (including presumably SRPMs) are "not 100% safe" seemed
applicable.  However, there was no substantial discussion of this point;
thus I assumed that as Fermilab/CERN did have a very limited deployment
RHEL license, the HEP community CentOS 8 would be verified against
"safe" RHEL for not just binary compatibility ("bug for bug") but also
"safety".

As pointed out by others on this list, I too need later C++ versions
than EL 7 has -- any idea when Springdale EL8 will be in production
distribution with a distro?

On 12/14/20 12:10 PM, Maarten wrote:
> Spring is a binary clone of RHEL and the sources are not based off CentOS.
>
> Quoting someone from the  Springdale mailinglist:  "Springdale Linux
> formerly known as PUIAS (Princeton University Institute for Advanced
> Studies) is older than CentOS and it compiles it's own binaries from the
> upstream source code. It is unrelated to CentOS and in my experience
> CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe. I tend to avoid them. Springdale has it's
> own repos, EPEL is ok and RPM Fusion works for me. For CUDA I use RHEL
> RPMs not CentOS RPMs the same goes for Chrome or anything else."
>
> If you want to install Springdale you can just use the boot iso no DVD
> needed: puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.3/x86_64/os/images/boot.iso
>
> As for converting from CentOS8 to Springdale it's basically removing the
> the Centos specific packages and replacing them with the Springdale
> packages. I have done this with a test system and afterwards with my
> personal systems that were running CentOS8. it worked flawlessly so I
> will be sticking to Springdale Linux even after Rocky Linux  is released.
>
> Maarten
>
> On 12/14/20 8:49 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
>> Springdale EL (Princeton in my terminology, just as SL is
>> Fermilab/CERN) shows the following:
>>
>> Download
>> DVD
>>
>> i386x86_64
>> 8.3TBATBA
>>
>> That is, there is no repo with an installable EL 8 ISO image.  As for
>> repos, Springdale shows:
>>
>> If you are only looking to install some rpms, you can download our
>> repositories on your system.
>>
>> YUM Repositories for PUIAS 8?  (NB:  This text was thus shown as not
>> [yet?] available.
>>
>> If Sprindale is built from CentOS, then such a build will no longer be
>> possible from CentOS Stream (a perpetual "beta" version, not a
>> production distro).  Springdale (and Rocky EL) and any future SL 8 --
>> were the HEP community to fund such (personnel, space, and hardware
>> platforms) -- would need to get actual production RHEL 8 source from
>> IBM RH pursuant to the Linux, GPL, etc., licenses.  Such sources are
>> not "pretty" and are deliberately designed to be "unfriendly" to build
>> from source, even with removal of all of the proprietary "logo" IP.
>> The idea of keeping SL 7 "alive" with perpetual backporting also may
>> not be attractive.  For now, until IBM RH announces for CentOS 7 what
>> was announced for the to-be-defunct CentOS 8, CentOS 7 can keep SL 7
>> patched for security, albeit not necessarily for new hardware (e.g.,
>> backporting drivers) or supporting new CPU and system I/O architectures.
>>
>> Yasha Karant
>>
>> On 12/14/20 3:39 AM, Maarten wrote:
>>> I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux
>>> without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to
>>> reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems.
>>>
>>> On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote:
 Hi,

 Is anyone considering Springdale Linux
 (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_&d=DwIFAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc&s=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s&e=
 ) as a way forward after SL7?

 Thanks,

 Ron

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Re: Rocky Linux

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I agree with Vinicius. I used Ubuntu once but found it difficult to navigate 
between it and Redhat based systems because of the FHS, because the packages 
were named differently, broken up into sub-packages differently,...  It was 
painful waste of brain power.

I'd wait to hear how Fermilab/CERN plan to address this since we want to be 
part of that ecosystem.

But I encourage everyone to post to this list and state what they would like to 
see. Beating up on RHEL/CentOS is not going to solve anything for us.For 
instance, should CERN/Fermilab put resources to providing a Scientific Linux 
going forward?

We discussed this briefly today and we're going to look at CentOS Stream for 
the desktop. We already have experience deploying Fedora desktops so rapid 
upgrades is not a problem for us. But we are definitely concerned with CentOS 
Stream for servers and other infrastructure based systems.





From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Vinícius Ferrão 
<11d646aef28a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 10:47 AM
To: Maarten <11ce72e232d2-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
Cc: scientific-linux-users@fnal.gov 
Subject: Re: Rocky Linux

I’ve done this mistake in the past.

The major issue with Debian is its lifecycle, even LTS is 5 years only. Same 
for Ubuntu. It’s just too little. If you need to install it near the end of the 
2yr lifecycle you’ll get effectively something like 3yrs of support.

The other issue is that the vast majority of academic and scientific software 
is targeted for Enterprise Linux. As an HPC engineer we always needs to use 
RHEL/derivatives or SLES/Leap. OpenHPC is only available to those flavors. 
Mellanox OFED? Ok there’s Ubuntu support nowadays, but the default branches are 
still for EL/SLE.

That’s how things work in our environment. I think the vast majority of people 
here works on Academia or with science/research/etc.

And finally I don’t want to adapt everything to Debian. The FHS is different, 
scripts will break, etc.

Best regards,
Vinícius Ferrão

Sent from my iPhone

> On 10 Dec 2020, at 13:38, Maarten 
> <11ce72e232d2-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> I might also consider switching to Debian since it will be hard to tell if 
> any other still existing rhel clones will continue and Debian has been around 
> for quite some time.
>
>> On 12/10/20 8:34 AM, Maarten wrote:
>> I will probably be more like to go for Springdale Linux since they've been 
>> around since before CentOS, I find it hard to put trust in a project that's 
>> just getting started unless of course CERN changes their decision about 
>> discontinuing Scientific Linux since they were migrating to CentOS.
>>
>>> On 12/10/20 5:17 AM, ~Stack~ wrote:
 On 12/9/20 9:16 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
>>>
 One thing does concern me:  having left CentOS (it was all "volunteer" 
 effort at that epoch as I recall) for SL, a primary motivator was that SL 
 had professional (employed, not volunteer) persons doing the distros, and 
 this SL list amounting to support.

 If Rocky is to be all volunteer, how reliable and professional will it be? 
  This is not a minor issue, as very few enthusiasts or other 
 non-professionals provide a truly reliable deliverable.
>>>
>>> I would say, give it time. It wouldn't be the first time Kurtzer started an 
>>> open source project and turned into a company. :-)
>>>
>>>
 For my use, is EL going to continue to be workstation friendly (e.g., 
 laptop in which one cannot pick and choose to integrate only Linux 
 traditionally supported controllers with appropriate drivers, such as 
 sound "cards", but is stuck with whatever the laptop vendor has used -- 
 typically MS Win "supported") or is it primarily a server distro? Ubuntu 
 LTS still seems to be laptop friendly.
>>>
>>> They are aiming for complete RHEL reproducibility. If the goal is to be 
>>> as-true-as-possible-RHEL variant then the answer would be in how you use 
>>> RHEL.
>>>
>>> But do give it sometime. It's only been two days and the announcement I 
>>> just saw said that there are now 750 people actively participating in the 
>>> various forms to communication and they have direction, a plan, and leaders 
>>> making it happen. And there's thousands of people who have noticed and are 
>>> talking about it on /. , reddit, lwn, ect. That's pretty impressive and it 
>>> speaks volumes about the number of people who really do want a true-to-RHEL 
>>> variant.
>>>
>>> ~Stack~

Re: cloning epel 6

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I successfully clone the repo.

From: Nico Kadel-Garcia 
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 4:06 PM
To: Teh, Kenneth M. 
Cc: scientific-linux-users 
Subject: Re: cloning epel 6

On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 8:05 AM Teh, Kenneth M.  wrote:
>
> Hello Nico,
>
> I'm under the impression you maintain the epel repos. If I'm not mistaken, do 
> you have instructions for cloning them?  I'm interested in preserving SL6 and 
> EPEL6 beyond their EOL to use for creating container images.

Great Caesar's ghost, no I'm a user who occasionally publishes
patches and makes suggestions to EPEL hosted software. Got asked once
to take on the "dag" repo, but declined very quickly, maintaining such
repos is a big task.

I do publish an rsync based cloning script at:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_nkadel_nkadel-2Drsync-2Dscripts_blob_master_rsync-2Depel.sh&d=DwIFAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=ZGFmGptRFhS1iMazo_TgRAkai37E8iALAlW8sYyWGkY&s=xBtBdj5WtBcsZAA33d0tGv-rnn-AfFizEOZw4aYCVsA&e=
 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_nkadel_nkadel-2Drsync-2Dscripts_blob_master_rsync-2Depel.excludes&d=DwIFAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=ZGFmGptRFhS1iMazo_TgRAkai37E8iALAlW8sYyWGkY&s=4CUZNFlKI8FxpW1-gyX1DuSRiH1NPtAbUJNtDXtitnA&e=
 


Nico Kadel-Garcia

> Have cc'd to SL list in case this gets routed to your junk folder.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken
>

cloning epel 6

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Hello Nico,

I'm under the impression you maintain the epel repos. If I'm not mistaken, do 
you have instructions for cloning them?  I'm interested in preserving SL6 and 
EPEL6 beyond their EOL to use for creating container images.

Have cc'd to SL list in case this gets routed to your junk folder.

Thanks.

Ken

how does yum prefer sl6x.repo over sl.repo?

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

How does yum prefer sl6x.repo over sl.repo?  Or, does it at all?  Is there a 
$releasever set to 6x squirreled away somewhere?

Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Thanks.

I'm trying to preserve a legacy application inside an SL6 container so some of 
our staff (mostly emeriti) can continue to use it after the November deadline 
on an SL7 or CentOS8 machine. There may be more apps that I am unaware of.  
That's why I asked.  If you plan to remove the sl6 base image from docker, then 
I need to preserve a copy somehow or learn to build one from scratch using an 
archive sl6 repo, or maybe even preserve a full sl6 repo myself.

If it's not too much trouble, please consider keeping the sl6 image around 
after the November deadline. Perhaps make a final version that binds the yum 
repos in the container to the archive locations.

If this is out of the question, please be frank and say so up front. Then, I 
will know what I need to do to set up what I need to possibly build other sl6 
containers after the November deadline.

Any comments or words of advice are appreciated so I know what I'm up against.

Thanks for all your efforts in maintaining SL.  It was a great run. I've been 
using you guys since SL4, late 90s(?).



From: Patrick Riehecky 
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2020 8:31 AM
To: scientific-linux-users; Teh, Kenneth M.
Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

The plan is to retire the SL6 docker image once SL6 is end of life.

With no one watching the security updates and the repos moved over to
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ftp.scientificlinux.org_linux_scientific_obsolete_&d=DwIFAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=nUZRUt1gyxPgDV7sDwWxXa2pENV3t5evyd7h_-NCsNo&s=syIsWiUN08di1rc2oDjVops0ilfFc6Jn3FTHMi96ae4&e=
  I'm not sure
the image would have any useful function.

Pat

On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 10:30 +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> After this November's end of life for SL6, will you continue to make
> the sl6 image available on docker hub?
>
> 
> From: Teh, Kenneth M. 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:15 AM
> To: Patrick Riehecky; scientific-linux-users
> Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers
>
> Thanks.  I've pulled it (I think).
>
> ____________
> From: Patrick Riehecky 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:01 AM
> To: Teh, Kenneth M.; scientific-linux-users
> Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers
>
> Hello,
>
> We've got official images in Docker Hub[1]
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hub.docker.com_-5F_sl&d=DwIFAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=OAMtP0DWou0nlXG7Kmxo2enjXJfwb1DXS9fwcaESuTE&m=sHzXDNLv8omo5deM2ZMDptbSwnBdv0WoIIp--TKHp9s&s=RmYdcL-ZvIeJReEfdPkg2oSv4eNHvEGLeXdcjr9shao&e=
>
> Pat
>
> On Wed, 2020-07-22 at 11:20 +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> > Getting my feet wet with containers.  Does SL have its own registry
> > of SL6 and 7 container images? If not, can someone recommend a
> > reliable image?
> >
> > Thanks

Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

After this November's end of life for SL6, will you continue to make the sl6 
image available on docker hub?


From: Teh, Kenneth M. 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:15 AM
To: Patrick Riehecky; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

Thanks.  I've pulled it (I think).


From: Patrick Riehecky 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:01 AM
To: Teh, Kenneth M.; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

Hello,

We've got official images in Docker Hub[1]

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hub.docker.com_-5F_sl&d=DwIFAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=TEQzUobutTtvSCbAl2aRSy9Va8akgKPDSt7kEkRGgaQ&s=NpcHX25n0xrbB3U7VQd6cV9xpnLGonAkLhfpEcME1HU&e=
 

Pat

On Wed, 2020-07-22 at 11:20 +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> Getting my feet wet with containers.  Does SL have its own registry
> of SL6 and 7 container images? If not, can someone recommend a
> reliable image?
>
> Thanks

Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Thanks.  I've pulled it (I think).


From: Patrick Riehecky 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:01 AM
To: Teh, Kenneth M.; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] recommended sl6 containers

Hello,

We've got official images in Docker Hub[1]

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hub.docker.com_-5F_sl&d=DwIFAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=OGrNK0pUnEvmI696BlyXq1KuObBnGG1wXIHIfkZBBL4&s=g18wSgDvJxaEyPD3fdWP0IQcdwWPQAykcMGJGPQCMqM&e=
 

Pat

On Wed, 2020-07-22 at 11:20 +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> Getting my feet wet with containers.  Does SL have its own registry
> of SL6 and 7 container images? If not, can someone recommend a
> reliable image?
>
> Thanks

recommended sl6 containers

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Getting my feet wet with containers.  Does SL have its own registry of SL6 and 
7 container images? If not, can someone recommend a reliable image?

Thanks

Re: Mate for CentOS 8

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

This is probably heresy to you but I'll pitch it anyway. I'm also a terminal, 
command line person, having started with AIX in '89, and VMS before that.

I've been using Fedora with gnome 3 now for the past 3 years after I ran into 
problems with outdated development tools.  It is surprisingly very command line 
friendly. I invoke all my apps from the keyboard  The Super (Windows) key is 
your friend.  Hit Super and type the name of the app, and up pops its window.  
And it does name completion as well showing your possible matched options after 
having typed only the first few letters of the app's name. And if you don't 
care to type the name, super and tab to "scroll" down the icons of your 
favorites on the dock, and hit return.

And since CentOS is essentially Fedora-based, the file layouts are identical. I 
remember struggling to find files, even the package names when I had to put 
Ubuntu on a newly-bought laptop.

My biggest concern was the rapid obsolescence. But I've learned to deal with 
it.  The upgrade is painless and the dnf system-upgrade has worked without any 
problems from 27 to 31 which is where I am now.

Well, just my 2 bits.

Good luck.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Akemi Yagi 

Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 7:08 PM
To: kei...@keithl.com
Cc: Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide
Subject: Re: Mate for CentOS 8

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom 
mailto:kei...@kl-ic.com>> wrote:
I still haven't learned how to tweak Gnome 3 so it looks
and operates like Gnome 2.

I dislike video games, which most user desktops seem to
be evolving towards.  I dislike icons replacing text;
I learned to read decades ago, and I can't grep icons.

I use Mate (a gnome 2 clone with gnome 3 underneath)
for my large-screen SL7 systems; works OK.

I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.

Mate character rendering (SL7 and C8) is fuzzy, just like
all gnome3 character rendering.  No big deal on a 4K*X
pixel screen, quite a problem on a portable 1K*X pixel
screen.  Xterm renders fine, as sharp as gnome2, but
xterm isn't as versatile as gnome2- and mate-terminal.

Are there other Gnome2/Mate dinosaurs on this list?

Perhaps we can combine efforts so the gaping holes in our
understanding don't completely overlap.  If nothing else,
perhaps we can develop a list of setup steps to disinfect
gnome3 and make it smell less gamy.

Then we can go back to our research, and stop distracting
others from their tweets, popup ads, and cute cat videos.

Keith

--
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you may 
want to take a look:

lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html

Akemi

Re: Revisiting Cent 8

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I actually like the enp3s0 naming convention. It maps directly to the pci 
addresses. For instance, an 'lspci' shows my ethernet controller at

> 00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit Network 
> Connection (Lewisville) (rev 04)

The 00:19.0 translates to enp0s25. 00 is p0, 19 is s25 (0x19). For multi-nic 
and 
even single nic machines, I can specify the network device exactly in my 
kickstart scripts.

There is a very nice description of this new naming convention at

  > 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.freedesktop.org_wiki_Software_systemd_PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames_&d=DwIGaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=ve0iDujF83qZPoGY-CHE8H46dcLDvMe-OAIzwpEPHsA&s=-WUetksEpdNV_-g9lnWnPzOxWyes58hqnZGYP2MyAJE&e=
 




On 3/17/20 3:13 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:

> enp3s0 is now the bunny, and it's by default using systemd based DHCP
> running under NetworkManager. I'm not happy, but do *not* try to reset
> the ethernet device name to eth0. And I urge you to stop trying to
> replace those scripts, you'll hurt yourself.
> 

Re: Revisiting Cent 8

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

ifconfig is going away...use ip instead.  In this case 'ip addr'

The way to set static addresses is to use nmcli conn edit .  The 
connection names are given by 'nmcli conn show'.

You want to alter the ipv4.'s.  I don't have my notes with me but off 
the top of head you want to change ipv4.method to manual and then fill in 
ipv4.addresses, ipv4.gateway, and whatever else you need.

The fields mix 'ip addr' and 'ip route' settings.  Basically that's what nmcli 
does. It takes the connection profile properties and uses the ip utility to set 
the nic and its routing info.

Good luck.




From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Larry Linder 
<0dea520dd180-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 11:38 AM
To: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
Subject: Revisiting Cent 8

Boss asked us to take another look at Cent 8 because Cent 8 box in
corner was using an IP address that is in middle of several machine
tools.

It had been running since oct 19 and we gave up on it at end of December
as basically worthless.

I looked at all the pages of directions on the internet and Cent pages
for a way to change the IP to a range that is used for our boxes.  When
you run ifconfig -a you see the configuration and no eth0 or eth1 but
you find enp3s0:
First I found the configuration tools don't work.
network-scrips is now empty.
I used yu to install scripts.
Edited eth0 to correct address and rebooted as "tool" didn't work.

Something is very wrong.  The manual pages from RH dont work, other
published directions are as if written for system zzz.  Cent help pages
are useless as they cover Cent 7 and little of no Cent 8 real help.

Anybody who has actually changed the IP to static sucessfully - please
tell me how they did it.

The boss looked at the bill for switching to another OS that is not a
derivative of RedHat and maybe a Macks and he wanted us to really look
at Cent 8 again.  As a business it all the bottom line, there is nothing
free.
We have a considerable investment in SL from 4 to 7.6 and I would hate
to think of the cost of just tossing it all.

Is there an alternative desk top as Gnome as it is terrible, You can't
have two terminals open at once at least on this system.

The only thing that worked was LibreOffice. The rest is nonsensical.
As you all can guess is that I am an engineer and not an IT person.

Larry Linder

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Re: desktop icons. App icons are in the dock so having a shortcut link on the 
desktop to an app is not really needed. Hit the Super (the Windows) key and 
type 
the name of the app you want to launch. Much faster. If the current focus is 
the 
Gnome Terminal, Ctrl-Shift-N opens a new Gnome Terminal window which is what I 
use mostly.

The desktop icons I would have liked to have are files/documents one is 
currently working with. I haven't figured out how. Putting stuff in the Desktop 
folder has no effect. So, eventually, I just ended up using the file manager 
app. The only drawback is scrolling down to find for the file.  The Downloads 
window in the file manager has a 'ls -t' ordering so I imagine it is possible 
to 
configure the other folders to have the same ordering instead of the alphabetic 
or folder-then-files ordering.  This way your current document is always at the 
top.

The CLI for Gnome is gsettings but there is a gnome tweaks tool that is a GUI 
to 
gsettings. I used it for instance to add a compose key so I can type simple 
letters with diacriticals. It's worth installing.

Here's a section of my own notes on gnome with link to some useful (maybe 
outdated) info.

> Settings list
> =
> 
> A useful on-line resource for gsettings, their keys and values, is 
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__people.gnome.org_-7Epmkovar_system-2Dadmin-2Dguide_index.html&d=DwIGaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=5GbBSPtAOuCA234pG8d5JY2ITZevk4w-pHdsVe8Kyns&s=gYM3IXWpZTse-8sAIYNQfcFL3NFlH9f0HRcuF8jkgho&e=
>  
> 
> No particular order:
> 
> * Disable automaximize when dragging a window to the top ::
> 
> gsettings set org.gnome.mutter auto-maximize false
> 
>   Hmm...didn't seem to work.  Reboot?  Or edge-tiling false?
> 
> * Turning caps lock into a compose key: 
>   
>   | tweak-tool -> typing -> position-of-compose-key
> 
> * Show date in the top panel ::
> 
> $ gsettings set org.gnome.shell.clock show-date true
> 
> * Dual monitor workspace. To make it span both monitors, say::
> 
> $ gsettings set org.gnome.mutter workspaces-only-on-primary false


Hope this helps.




On 10/9/19 2:15 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 12:10:50PM +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> 
>> One thing that annoys me is the hot top left corner but I have that disabled.
> 
> That is nice to know, I'll find out how.  I presume Mate and
> Gnome3 can coexist on the same machine, perhaps with different
> logins to access them, so I can make the transition as Gnome3
> is adapted to my needs.
> 
> 
>> For a while I missed the icons on the desktop but I don't anymore.
> 
> Is there a way around that with Gnome3, to keep user-generated
> icons on the desktop, and few or NO system-mandatory icons?
> 
> I keep about two dozen icons and folders on my desktop,
> changing them frequently with my workflow, different patterns
> for differently tasked machines.
> 
> Sadly, it is true that some people let icons accumulate and
> make a mess (resembling their physical desktops), and that
> slows down the machine.  I once helped a colleague move 800
> overlapped icons on her desktop to folders, and mostly to
> the trash.
> 
> For me, visual organization of my work using my own icons
> and classifications is vital, and saves mental effort for
> more important needs.  Also important is to avoid externally
> imposed change for change's sake; I'm quite capable of
> introducting more changes in my own life than I can manage.
> 
> Keith
> 

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I agree with David. I've been using Gnome 3 since Fedora 26 and it's really 
quite nice. I especially like the ability to launch an app from the keyboard 
without an open terminal. The Windows or Super key is really very handy. I'm 
also very fond of the Mac-style scroll. I just wish I could get my windows box 
to do the same.

One thing that annoys me is the hot top left corner but I have that disabled. 
For a while I missed the icons on the desktop but I don't anymore.




On 10/9/19 6:31 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:
> [resent with correct mail identity]
> 
> On 09/10/2019 02:19, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
>>> Centos 8 problems.
>>> 1. We noticed that the mouse wheel has changed direction ...
>>
>> Some of the issues described are Gnome3 "features", not
>> just CentOS.  I switched to Mate, a fork which resembles
>> Gnome2.  I hope the Mate team outlives me.  Send money
>> to them.
>>
>> I don't use tablets, "smart phones" (aka "dodo-paddles"),
>> gestures (besides the venerable middle digit), and other
>> cat-video-interface indoctrination and surveillance tools.
> 
> This is FUD ... And to be honest I did believe this too in the early GNOME
> 3/GNOME Shell days.  But nowadays GNOME 3 is by far more keyboard friendly
> than GNOME 2 was.  Nowadays, I mostly use the mouse to mark text and keep the
> right window focused (I use focus-follows-mouse).
> 
> So ...
> 
> - alt-tab with cursor keys to quickly flip windows without mouse.
> 
> - To open, say Firefox - hit the Windows-key, type "firef [ENTER]" - if there
> are multiple matches, use cursor keys.  And search results are adaptive, so if
> you search for the same thing more often, it appears higher up in the result
> list.
> 
> - To move windows, hit ALT-F7 and move the window with cursor keys (or go via
> the ALT+Space menu)
> 
> - To resize windows, hit ALT-F8 and resize the window with cursor keys (or go
> via ALT+Space menu)
> 
> - Maximize window: Windows key + cursor key UP
> 
> - Normalize window: Windows key + cursor key DOWN
> 
> - Maximize only cover half left or right side of the screen: Windows key +
> cursor key LEFT/RIGHT (undo by doing it once more, or Windows key + Cursor 
> DOWN)
> 
> - Restart GNOME Shell: ALT+F2 and type "r [enter]"
> 
> - Move window to another workspace: Focus the window you want to move and hit
> CTRL-ALT-SHIFT + cursor UP/DOWN
> 
> - Switch workspace: CTRL-ALT + cursor UP/DOWN
> 
> - Hit ctrl-alt-tab, and cursor keys now highlights things available on the
> "top bar" on the screen, allowing you to access those elements using cursor
> keys and the enter key.
> 
> ...
> ...
> and the list goes on.
> 
> Oh, hit the Windows key and search for "keyboard" and go down with cursor keys
> to "Settings -> Keyboard", and you see all the shortcuts there and can change
> or add more if you want.  Looking for something particular in that Keyboard
> settings window, just start typing what you're searching for.
> 
> If you've also configured GNOME to also index documents and contacts, they all
> appear when you start searching (via the Windows-key).
> 
> 
> I don't mind people bashing and complaining about bad software.  But only when
> the facts are right.
> 

Re: Missing eth0 after upate to 7.7

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

systemd based machines don't use ethX anymore. There is a more reliable naming 
scheme described here.

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.freedesktop.org_wiki_Software_systemd_PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames_&d=DwIF-g&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=r6yNOWImSOHQP7nksDZAzQXDRFb52SFP3q08jQNE358&s=2gqVMIg2JhFlhK_y-M-bVzc7nP1586T5HmS4c3vX5hs&e=
>  

I've been using the #3 scheme which is based on the geographical location of 
the 
network card. The system will prefer schemes #1 and #2 if the bios numbers them 
but #3 always works nevertheless during installs.



On 9/11/19 6:51 AM, Steven C Timm wrote:
> I don’t know about your machine but I have seen on other SL7 machines that 
> what 
> was eth0 turns to eth1 and so forth.  Do ifconfig -a
> That will show you all interfaces on the machine.  Then use ethtool on them 
> to 
> see which one has the link.
> 
> Steve
> 
> *From:* owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
>  on behalf of Francesco 
> Alfano 
> <0bdf64e162f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2019 6:42:05 AM
> *To:* scientific-linux-users 
> *Subject:* Missing eth0 after upate to 7.7
> I have update to 7.7 and now i missing network connection:
> The ifconfig eth0 returns
> Device not found.
> 
> How can I resolve the problem ?

Re: SL6 end of life

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

"dns if not my friend."  Nice!

On 9/5/19 10:02 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 12:33 PM Jon Pruente  
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 9:47 AM Larry Linder 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> It is interesting that there is a new "yum" as an RPM but do you need to
>>> install it to install the rest of the .rpm packages on the RHEL 8. RPM
>>> pile.
>>> This looks like the chicken / egg problem or can you install the RHEL
>>> rpms with the old yum?
>>>
>>> I have to admit that I did not read the fine print.
>>
>>
>> It's a newer package manager called dnf, not a new packaging format. dnf was 
>> introduced in Fedora 18 in 2013, so over six years. It was made the full 
>> replacement in Fedora 22. You can still call the yum command, it's just a 
>> symlink to dnf. No worries.
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__fedoraproject.org_wiki_DNF-3Frd-3DDnf&d=DwIBaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=A5w_4HZYVV8wdM-CIyuTqojig2pf2OQLcPYEBVhfh-0&s=o0mKeNq2vLkettxtsh9-B5Q5OnQWA8YExrDIMTSvbW4&e=
>>
>> On a RHEL 8 VM:
>> $ which yum
>> /usr/bin/yum
>> $ ls -l /usr/bin/yum
>> lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 5 Oct 15  2018 /usr/bin/yum -> dnf-3
> 
> dns if not my friend. It includes "Suggests" and "Recommends" for
> other packages, which I personally think is really destabilizing and
> not backwards compatible. Fedora 32, way upstream, uses a distinct
> "zstd" compression format which is not backwards compatible, so taking
> apart the SRPM packages for backports  is going to require chicanery.
> even on CentOS 8.
> 

SL6 end of life

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

When is SL6's end of life? I've looked at TUV's descriptions but I need an 
explanation in layman's terms. I guess the question I'm really asking is: when 
will DOE not allow us to run SL6x?

Re: dnsmasq and systemd

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I had tftp-secure when testing manually.  And I was running dnsmasq in the 
foreground as root in verbose mode so I could see what it was doing with 
respect 
to pxe requests.

I probably forgot the admonition about tftp-secure and assumed it was like the 
'-s' option on in.tftpd which does a chroot. Seems strange that dnsmasq would 
admonish running as root when syslinux-tftpboot installs its files as owned by 
root.

I didn't do anything with dnsmasq.conf. Instead, I added a dhcp.conf and 
pxe.conf to dnsmasq.d to do dhcp/dns and pxe.  I solved it by using the 
user=root directive.





On 5/17/19 10:33 AM, Tom H wrote:
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 3:07 PM Teh, Kenneth M.
> <0864eace5c83-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov> wrote:
>> On 5/16/19 9:23 PM, Orion Poplawski wrote:
>>> On 5/16/19 1:23 PM, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Systemd continues to baffle me.
>>>>
>>>> I've set up a router machine that provides pxe boot and tftp
>>>> services on a private network with dnsmasq. Pxeboot works if I
>>>> run dnsmasq manually, but not when I turn on the service with
>>>> systemctl.
>>>>
>>>> I can't think through its layers of obtuseness and would
>>>> appreciate someone with a fresher brain to point me in the right
>>>> direction.
>>>
>>> You don't give us much to work with. When you start it manually,
>>> what exactly do you run? What does 'journalctl -u dnsmasq' report?
>>> Anything else that might be relevant?
>>
>> Sorry. You're right. A moment of exasperation and frustration with
>> systemd whose bits of config/info are strewn all over the place
>> instead of everything in init.d. I guess I resent learning new ways
>> of doing old things. Must be my age. :)
>>
>> Turned out the problem is dnsmasq's tftp module has no permission
>> to read pxelinux.0 even though the file is 0644. Checked audit.log
>> for possible selinux problem. Nothing.
>>
>> Everything in /var/lib/tftpboot is selinux type tftpdir_rw_t except
>> for pxelinux.0 (plus a few more) which are cobbler_var_lib_t. Tried
>> an semanage fcontext/restorecon to change it just to see if dnsmasq
>> would read it. Doesn't change. Nothing in journalctl. Used chcon.
>> Changes it. But dnsmasq still cannot read the file.
>>
>> Finally set dnsmasq to run as root in its config. Works. Only thing
>> I can think of is dnsmasq which apparently runs as nobody when
>> started from systemd cannot read files it does not own.
> 
> 1) From the manpage
> 
> --tftp-secure
> Enable TFTP secure mode: without this, any file which is readable by
> the dnsmasq process under normal unix access-control rules is
> available via TFTP. When the --tftp-secure flag is given, only files
> owned by the user running the dnsmasq process are accessible. If
> dnsmasq is being run as root, different rules apply: --tftp-secure
> has no effect, but only files which have the world-readable bit set
> are accessible. It is not recommended to run dnsmasq as root with
> TFTP enabled, and certainly not without specifying --tftp-root. Doing
> so can expose any world-readable file on the server to any host on
> the net.
> 
> Are you using this option?
> 
> 2) When you were testing and running it manually, were you setting
> command-line options or were you simply using the options in
> "/etc/dnsmasq.conf" like the systemd unit?
> 

Re: dnsmasq and systemd

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Sorry. You're right. A moment of exasperation and frustration with systemd 
whose 
bits of config/info are strewn all over the place instead of everything in 
init.d. I guess I resent learning new ways of doing old things. Must be my age. 
 :)

Turned out the problem is dnsmasq's tftp module has no permission to read 
pxelinux.0 even though the file is 0644. Checked audit.log for possible selinux 
problem.  Nothing.

Everything in /var/lib/tftpboot is selinux type tftpdir_rw_t except for 
pxelinux.0 (plus a few more) which are cobbler_var_lib_t.  Tried an semanage 
fcontext/restorecon to change it just to see if dnsmasq would read it. Doesn't 
change. Nothing in journalctl. Used chcon. Changes it. But dnsmasq still cannot 
read the file.

Finally set dnsmasq to run as root in its config. Works.  Only thing I can 
think 
of is dnsmasq which apparently runs as nobody when started from systemd cannot 
read files it does not own.



On 5/16/19 9:23 PM, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> On 5/16/19 1:23 PM, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
>> Systemd continues to baffle me.
>>
>> I've set up a router machine that provides pxe boot and tftp services on a
>> private network with dnsmasq.  Pxeboot works if I run dnsmasq manually, but 
>> not
>> when I turn on the service with systemctl.
>>
>> I can't think through its layers of obtuseness and would appreciate someone 
>> with
>> a fresher brain to point me in the right direction.
>>
> 
> You don't give us much to work with.  When you start it manually, what 
> exactly 
> do you run?  What does 'journalctl -u dnsmasq' report?  Anything else that 
> might 
> be relevant?
> 

dnsmasq and systemd

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Systemd continues to baffle me.

I've set up a router machine that provides pxe boot and tftp services on a 
private network with dnsmasq.  Pxeboot works if I run dnsmasq manually, but not 
when I turn on the service with systemctl.

I can't think through its layers of obtuseness and would appreciate someone 
with 
a fresher brain to point me in the right direction.

Re: Installing Chrome

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

Huh? Sorry about that. The link must be mangled by some mail handling software. 
The link is (on one line)

https colon slash slash dl dot google dot com slash linux slash direct
slash google-chrome-stable_current_x86_64 dot rpm



On 3/19/19 9:06 AM, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> I have google-chrome running on my SL7x systems without any issues. Download 
> the
> rpm from
> 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.google.com_linux_direct_google-2Dchrome-2Dstable-5Fcurrent-5Fx86-5F64.rpm&d=DwIGaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=6oFnap0OxMsKmGkMnPN_cuFIAHLGt9UHSU3b5qO7T2U&s=gL00sqbIQuwlSzfbRmaeMccpQZjYYBjhcYWD9uUHlE0&e=
> 
> and install it. It even installs google-chrome.repo so it is kept up-to-date 
> if
> you have yum-autoupdate turned on.
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/18/19 2:55 PM, Boris Goldowsky wrote:
>> Good idea - I'll try using Chromium instead as the first experiment.
>>
>> Boris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/18/19, 1:10 PM, "owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on 
>> behalf of Mark Stodola" > behalf of stod...@pelletron.com> wrote:
>>
>>   On 3/18/19 11:22 AM, Boris Goldowsky wrote:
>>   > Trying to get Google Chrome installed on Scientific Linux 7.3, in 
>> order to be able to run Selenium/WebDriver tests.
>>   >
>>   > Attempting to install via RPM or Yum, it is unable to find the 
>> dependency "liberation-fonts"
>>   >
>>   >  Error: Package: google-chrome-stable-73.0.3683.75-1.x86_64 
>> (google-chrome)
>>   > Requires: liberation-fonts
>>   >
>>   > I do have the following installed, which are all that are available 
>> in the SL repositories:
>>   >Installed Packages
>>   >liberation-fonts-common.noarch  1:1.07.2-15.el7 
>> @base/$releasever
>>   >liberation-mono-fonts.noarch1:1.07.2-15.el7 
>> @base/$releasever
>>   >liberation-narrow-fonts.noarch  1:1.07.2-15.el7 @sl
>>   >liberation-sans-fonts.noarch1:1.07.2-15.el7 
>> @base/$releasever
>>   >liberation-serif-fonts.noarch   1:1.07.2-15.el7 
>> @base/$releasever
>>   >
>>   > But the (meta-)package “libreration-fonts” doesn’t seem to exist in 
>> SL.
>>   >
>>   > Any advice?  Thank you!
>>   >
>>   > Boris
>>   
>>   You could install with rpm --nodeps if you really need Google Chrome.
>>   
>>   I would recommend Chromium from the EPEL repository first though.
>>   
>>   -Mark
>>   
>>

Re: Installing Chrome

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

I have google-chrome running on my SL7x systems without any issues. Download 
the 
rpm from

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.google.com_linux_direct_google-2Dchrome-2Dstable-5Fcurrent-5Fx86-5F64.rpm&d=DwIGaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=6oFnap0OxMsKmGkMnPN_cuFIAHLGt9UHSU3b5qO7T2U&s=gL00sqbIQuwlSzfbRmaeMccpQZjYYBjhcYWD9uUHlE0&e=

and install it. It even installs google-chrome.repo so it is kept up-to-date if 
you have yum-autoupdate turned on.



On 3/18/19 2:55 PM, Boris Goldowsky wrote:
> Good idea - I'll try using Chromium instead as the first experiment.
> 
> Boris
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/18/19, 1:10 PM, "owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on 
> behalf of Mark Stodola"  behalf of stod...@pelletron.com> wrote:
> 
>  On 3/18/19 11:22 AM, Boris Goldowsky wrote:
>  > Trying to get Google Chrome installed on Scientific Linux 7.3, in 
> order to be able to run Selenium/WebDriver tests.
>  >
>  > Attempting to install via RPM or Yum, it is unable to find the 
> dependency "liberation-fonts"
>  >
>  >  Error: Package: google-chrome-stable-73.0.3683.75-1.x86_64 
> (google-chrome)
>  > Requires: liberation-fonts
>  >
>  > I do have the following installed, which are all that are available in 
> the SL repositories:
>  >Installed Packages
>  >liberation-fonts-common.noarch  1:1.07.2-15.el7 
> @base/$releasever
>  >liberation-mono-fonts.noarch1:1.07.2-15.el7 
> @base/$releasever
>  >liberation-narrow-fonts.noarch  1:1.07.2-15.el7 @sl
>  >liberation-sans-fonts.noarch1:1.07.2-15.el7 
> @base/$releasever
>  >liberation-serif-fonts.noarch   1:1.07.2-15.el7 
> @base/$releasever
>  >
>  > But the (meta-)package “libreration-fonts” doesn’t seem to exist in SL.
>  >
>  > Any advice?  Thank you!
>  >
>  > Boris
>  
>  You could install with rpm --nodeps if you really need Google Chrome.
>  
>  I would recommend Chromium from the EPEL repository first though.
>  
>  -Mark
>  
> 

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

ANL just rolled out spf, dkim, and dmarc handling for emails. I've heard that 
mailman lists don't play with these new requirements. I've spent this past week 
reconfiguring postfix on my machines and noticed that protection.outlook.com 
marks my outbound emails as having failed dkim even though gmail says it passed.

Coud these be related?


On 11/16/18 12:43 PM, Bonnie King wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
> between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
> has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> On 11/16/2018 12:40 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
>>> receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
>>> problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.
>>
>> 'guessing' about causes of failures in the face of a
>> straightforward explanation, testible by speaking to your
>> email provider, rather than positing a testible hypothesis
>> (as I did) seems useless
>>
>> -- Russ herrold
>>
>