Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
Hi, +1 to dropping the initial 1. that will never ever change. However, since the 1 was unchanged since we are out of beta, it seems to me that we are currently treating the second number as our major version. In other words, we are at version 9.0.1 and the next version should be 10.0.0. This is a bit like what was done for Java ;-). I don't think users will be overly confused or upset in any case. Having more relevant first digits will certainly be good for clarity. Cheers, Markus On 16/01/14 20:34, Jeroen De Dauw wrote: Hey, I think it would be nice if SMW was http://semver.org/ compliant. This means version numbers would look like MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH with a possible stability suffix. This is very close to what we are already doing, except that we are sticking a 1. in front of it. Having this shifted by one might not be confusing to people familiar with the SMW release cycle, though might be surprising to those who are not. How about switching to this schema for out next major release, which would then end up being 2.0? If we make this switch, the next major release seems like the best point to do this. Coincidentally one advantage to picking this release for such a change is that it makes us skip 1.10, which some users might think is smaller than 1.9.0. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
+1 for using the semver.org definitions. This is especially important in managed (enterprise) IT environments (ITIL...) where major changes triggers different processes. It is also important to tag all extensions. This is very often not the case yet... /Alexander Am 17.01.2014 10:41, schrieb Markus Krötzsch: Hi, +1 to dropping the initial 1. that will never ever change. However, since the 1 was unchanged since we are out of beta, it seems to me that we are currently treating the second number as our major version. In other words, we are at version 9.0.1 and the next version should be 10.0.0. This is a bit like what was done for Java ;-). I don't think users will be overly confused or upset in any case. Having more relevant first digits will certainly be good for clarity. Cheers, Markus On 16/01/14 20:34, Jeroen De Dauw wrote: Hey, I think it would be nice if SMW was http://semver.org/ compliant. This means version numbers would look like MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH with a possible stability suffix. This is very close to what we are already doing, except that we are sticking a 1. in front of it. Having this shifted by one might not be confusing to people familiar with the SMW release cycle, though might be surprising to those who are not. How about switching to this schema for out next major release, which would then end up being 2.0? If we make this switch, the next major release seems like the best point to do this. Coincidentally one advantage to picking this release for such a change is that it makes us skip 1.10, which some users might think is smaller than 1.9.0. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- semantic::apps by gesinn.it Business Applications with Semantic Mediawiki. http://semantic-apps.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
Hey, Markus: the next version should be 10.0.0 Good point. +1 to this. Alexander: It is also important to tag all extensions. This is very often not the case yet... At least for SMW you can be sure all future releases will be tagged, since Composer essentially requires one to tag in order to create a release. The same is also true for SRF and Maps, and I hope more extensions will follow. Yaron: I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version number to 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that. A discussion about the same question occurred quite some time back on wikitech. As you can probably guess, the outcome was rather different. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
On 17/01/14 15:09, Yaron Koren wrote: Hi, Markus - are you suggesting retroactively referring to, say, version 1.5.1 as version 5.1 - with a corresponding change to all the documentation, etc.? Or just jumping straight from version 1.9 to version 10.0? I'm assuming the latter, but in either case that seems like a bad idea, that will in fact cause confusion, without any obvious benefit. Yes, Java did it, but, as Wikipedia notes [1], that was strictly for marketing purposes, presumably because Java 6 looks a lot nicer on a book cover than Java 1.6. Behind the scenes, Java developers still refer to it as 1.6, etc. When the first SMW Unleashed book comes out, then maybe it makes sense to start talking about making the number look nicer. :) I think it's overly dramatic to say that SMW versioning will never move past 1.x. There are a few previous versions that could have merited a jump to 2.0, in my opinion - the most recent two, 1.8 and 1.9, being obvious candidates. Perhaps it was a mistake to not make the major number jump with either of them. (And by the way, maybe it's not too late to rename 1.9 to 2.0? It's only been out for two weeks now...) But trying to pretend that those *were* major version number changes seems like it would cause more problems than it's worth. I was suggesting to use 10 as the next version, but to keep all old releases (including 1.9) named as before; otherwise we would really cause confusion (e.g. there are archived emails about those versions that we cannot edit). However, the suggestion not to jump but to simply leave away the initial 1. in the future. My reason was that the number 9 seems to be our current major version, rather than a minor version of major version 1. And if it is good enough for Java marketing, I don't see a problem using it for SMW ;-) Anyway, I won't fight for either option :-) Version 2.0 also sounds nice in a way. Cheers, Markus Jeroen - the numbering decisions of the developers of core MediaWiki seem irrelevant to this discussion, I would think. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history -Yaron On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Jeroen De Dauw jeroended...@gmail.com mailto:jeroended...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, Markus: the next version should be 10.0.0 Good point. +1 to this. Alexander: It is also important to tag all extensions. This is very often not the case yet... At least for SMW you can be sure all future releases will be tagged, since Composer essentially requires one to tag in order to create a release. The same is also true for SRF and Maps, and I hope more extensions will follow. Yaron: I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version number to 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that. A discussion about the same question occurred quite some time back on wikitech. As you can probably guess, the outcome was rather different. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
Hi, It sounds like your real question is, Shouldn't we have changed to 2.0 already? :) I don't know the answer to that, but I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version number to 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that. (I don't think avoiding a 1.10, 1.11 etc. is by itself a good-enough reason to jump to the next number - although I may be guilty of sometimes doing that when setting version numbers for my own extensions - but anyway, ideally there are enough large-scale improvements to accompany the small ones that this sort of thing doesn't often become an issue.) On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Jeroen De Dauw jeroended...@gmail.comwrote: Hey, I think it would be nice if SMW was http://semver.org/ compliant. This means version numbers would look like MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH with a possible stability suffix. This is very close to what we are already doing, except that we are sticking a 1. in front of it. Having this shifted by one might not be confusing to people familiar with the SMW release cycle, though might be surprising to those who are not. How about switching to this schema for out next major release, which would then end up being 2.0? If we make this switch, the next major release seems like the best point to do this. Coincidentally one advantage to picking this release for such a change is that it makes us skip 1.10, which some users might think is smaller than 1.9.0. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
Hey, increasing the version number to 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that. The thing is that we have not been doing this. Some of our last major releases contained big breaking changes (DataItems, SQLStore3, Composer, etc), and we did not increment the primary number. I do not expect to ever have changes that are significantly more disruptive than those for any future release. I don't think avoiding a 1.10, 1.11 etc. is by itself a good-enough reason to jump to the next number Agreed. This is a weak argument for picking the next release to make the change if we decide to do so. It is not an argument for making the change itself. (In fact, you cannot reason like that if you stick to semver.) Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
Hi everyone! I find myself difficult to understand the notion of MAJOR in semver.org : MAJOR version when you make incompatible API changes IMHO MAJOR version - is when the amount of new stable tested features reach some threshold, or when some key characteristics of the software become significantly better (e.g. SMW 2.0 works 400% faster). See this list for more examples of stuff that I think can be the reason for increasing any version of SMW. [1] The API incompatibility is just a drawback, the inevitable evil which surely should be introduced with the version. Since the versioning is related not only with programming but also with marketing, I think it's strange to make API incompatibilities the major factor for increasing the version number. [1] http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMW_users_survey_results#Development_priorities - Yury Katkov, WikiVote On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Yaron Koren ya...@wikiworks.com wrote: Hi, It sounds like your real question is, Shouldn't we have changed to 2.0 already? :) I don't know the answer to that, but I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version number to 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that. (I don't think avoiding a 1.10, 1.11 etc. is by itself a good-enough reason to jump to the next number - although I may be guilty of sometimes doing that when setting version numbers for my own extensions - but anyway, ideally there are enough large-scale improvements to accompany the small ones that this sort of thing doesn't often become an issue.) On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Jeroen De Dauw jeroended...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, I think it would be nice if SMW was http://semver.org/ compliant. This means version numbers would look like MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH with a possible stability suffix. This is very close to what we are already doing, except that we are sticking a 1. in front of it. Having this shifted by one might not be confusing to people familiar with the SMW release cycle, though might be surprising to those who are not. How about switching to this schema for out next major release, which would then end up being 2.0? If we make this switch, the next major release seems like the best point to do this. Coincidentally one advantage to picking this release for such a change is that it makes us skip 1.10, which some users might think is smaller than 1.9.0. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant
Hey Yury, In case of MINOR versions, people know no compatibility breaks where made. This means all versions of MediaWiki and PHP that where supported before are still supported. It also means that no features where removed from SMW, and that existing ones where not modified in such a way that old wikitext will break. Those things can only happen in MAJOR versions. This is a big help to people using the software in determining if and when they should upgrade. Development related compatibility is also part of the picture, though since our primary audience are the users, not developers, that really comes second. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
