Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wednesday 29 Apr 2009 6:35:49 pm Bharat Shetty wrote: So I would pick a low priced copy of this book just for the reading fun I intend to buy this book too - the woman has some interesting thoughts. shiv
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wednesday 29 Apr 2009 1:11:34 am Thaths wrote: Repelled by such pagan blasphemies, the first British scholars of India went so far as to invent what we now call “Hinduism,” Relevant here are the British views that endured and played a role in the British Liaison with the Muslim league and Jinnah and the later formation of Pakistan. When the British later handed their imperial baton to the US - the US took uop the same causes with enthusiasm. And now we have the Taliban. India need not worry about the Taliban. Pakistan and the Taliban are one and the same. India will deal with the Taliban as it has dealt with Pakistan. Only the US and the West need to worry. take a look at this: http://www.newstatesman.com/asia/2009/04/india-british-raj-pakistan When Churchill argued vehemently against Indian independence in the 1930s, his fire was directed mainly at the Hindus (in contrast, he praised Muslims, whose valour and virility he admired). As the Second World War neared its close, the British prime minister was so consumed by hatred of the Hindus that he told his private secretary John Colville that he wanted extraordinary destruction visited upon them. Colville’s The Fringes of Power records the extreme nature of his master’s feelings in February 1945, just after his return from Yalta: The PM said the Hindus were a foul race “protected by their mere pullulation from the doom that is due” and he wished Bert [Bomber] Harris could send some of his surplus bombers to destroy them. shiv
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
2009/4/29 Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Ok, fairly interesting book. Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] I'm no scholar of the Gita, but I have read 4 versions/translations/interpretations, and I'm confused on how she arrived at this conclusion. The wikipedia article doesn't speak too highly of her either (though it is disputed), so you if you are reading it, you might want to check out the talk section for it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wendy_Doniger But if you do manage to find a lower priced India copy, do let me know. I'm poor too :) Kiran
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 17:27 +0530, Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. She seems inclined to use Freud, yes. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] You can add http://ramesh-n-rao.sulekha.com/blog/post/2000/12/pursuing-the-gita.htm to you collection of anti-Doniger screeds. Bagger Vance and R. Junuh indeed! Searching through the Philadelphia Inquirer's archives (from 1981 to present) failed to yield that infamous November 19, 2000 quote by Doniger about the Gita being a dishonest book and not as nice a book as Americans think. I don't think many would disagree that it proclaims just wars to be justified.
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Ah Kiran, I knew before that Doniger and Pankaj Mishra are both generally well criticized writers. Mishra's posts have been criticized and proved to be hollow before and these are the types of writers who along with Martha Nausbaum try to write carefully as to make their side of argument stand out. Ramachandra guha is another example. He would cleverly filter out non-Nehru and non-congress stuffs from his books. So I would pick a low priced copy of this book just for the reading fun :-) -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/29 Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Ok, fairly interesting book. Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] I'm no scholar of the Gita, but I have read 4 versions/translations/interpretations, and I'm confused on how she arrived at this conclusion. The wikipedia article doesn't speak too highly of her either (though it is disputed), so you if you are reading it, you might want to check out the talk section for it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wendy_Doniger But if you do manage to find a lower priced India copy, do let me know. I'm poor too :) Kiran
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
I am just wondering whether these reviewers would consider Michaevelli's The Prince as an honest book while the Gita is dishonest? Just because one provides no apologia while the other seems to qualify it's message based on the position in society? One friend felt the Mahabharat to be highly casteist - the prejudice is openly displayed visavis Karna for example as the adopted son of a charioteer. I agree. Of course this person was Greek and did not seem to think the Odyssey has a fair amount of fatalism. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:05 AM, Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.comwrote: Ah Kiran, I knew before that Doniger and Pankaj Mishra are both generally well criticized writers. Mishra's posts have been criticized and proved to be hollow before and these are the types of writers who along with Martha Nausbaum try to write carefully as to make their side of argument stand out. Ramachandra guha is another example. He would cleverly filter out non-Nehru and non-congress stuffs from his books. So I would pick a low priced copy of this book just for the reading fun :-) -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/29 Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Ok, fairly interesting book. Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] I'm no scholar of the Gita, but I have read 4 versions/translations/interpretations, and I'm confused on how she arrived at this conclusion. The wikipedia article doesn't speak too highly of her either (though it is disputed), so you if you are reading it, you might want to check out the talk section for it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wendy_Doniger But if you do manage to find a lower priced India copy, do let me know. I'm poor too :) Kiran
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
--- On Wed, 29/4/09, Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History') To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, 6:35 PM Ah Kiran, I knew before that Doniger and Pankaj Mishra are both generally well criticized writers. Mishra's posts have been criticized and proved to be hollow before and these are the types of writers who along with Martha Nausbaum try to write carefully as to make their side of argument stand out. As opposed to the other type of writer who try to write carelessly 'as to make their side of argument' stand in? Ramachandra guha is another example. He would cleverly filter out non-Nehru and non-congress stuffs from his books. What an abomination! You mean there's nothing at all on the Hindu Mahasabha in this base, rotten scoundrel's books? Why don't they ban him, and then burn his book? Preferably while he's holding its only printed copy? So I would pick a low priced copy of this book just for the reading fun :-) Reading fun? Reading is serious stuff, to be attended to in suitably earnest mood, with some tissues at one's side. What fun? -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/29 Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Ok, fairly interesting book. Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] I'm no scholar of the Gita, but I have read 4 versions/translations/interpretations, and I'm confused on how she arrived at this conclusion. The wikipedia article doesn't speak too highly of her either (though it is disputed), so you if you are reading it, you might want to check out the talk section for it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wendy_Doniger But if you do manage to find a lower priced India copy, do let me know. I'm poor too :) Kiran Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Ok, You make me sound like I'm actually on a side. I will rephrase my sentence, if that makes you happy. I will take back that I'm going to read that book for fun statement. Instead, honestly I want to know the other alternative view point and I'm a person who reads and want to know all view points. Guha's books are more of selected facts based on selected research and most of them are accurate and valid. But still I still stand to my view that he carefully writes the way he wants. Anyone who reads his book can make that out. Did I say there was no Hindu Mahasabha and they were an organization without flaws ? You are only bringing that here. And as for your points on why they wont burn his books, Guha hardly writes any stuffs that are viewed sensitively like Arun Shourie who wrote a book on Ambedkar and was dragged into streets and abused physically and that book was subsequently banned. You seem to forget that Hindu Mahasabha got chided out for protesting against partition, which itself is root of many communal problems plaguing out country these days. -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: --- On Wed, 29/4/09, Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History') To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, 6:35 PM Ah Kiran, I knew before that Doniger and Pankaj Mishra are both generally well criticized writers. Mishra's posts have been criticized and proved to be hollow before and these are the types of writers who along with Martha Nausbaum try to write carefully as to make their side of argument stand out. As opposed to the other type of writer who try to write carelessly 'as to make their side of argument' stand in? Ramachandra guha is another example. He would cleverly filter out non-Nehru and non-congress stuffs from his books. What an abomination! You mean there's nothing at all on the Hindu Mahasabha in this base, rotten scoundrel's books? Why don't they ban him, and then burn his book? Preferably while he's holding its only printed copy? So I would pick a low priced copy of this book just for the reading fun :-) Reading fun? Reading is serious stuff, to be attended to in suitably earnest mood, with some tissues at one's side. What fun? -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/29 Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Ok, fairly interesting book. Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] I'm no scholar of the Gita, but I have read 4 versions/translations/interpretations, and I'm confused on how she arrived at this conclusion. The wikipedia article doesn't speak too highly of her either (though it is disputed), so you if you are reading it, you might want to check out the talk section for it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wendy_Doniger But if you do manage to find a lower priced India copy, do let me know. I'm poor too :) Kiran Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
For Chris' sakes. That was intended to be funny. Give me a break, do. I never comment on religion or respond to the religious, of whatever confession. If ever I do, it is safe to assume that it is an attempt at humour. In this case, a terribly misplaced attempt. --- On Wed, 29/4/09, Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History') To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, 7:39 PM Ok, You make me sound like I'm actually on a side. I will rephrase my sentence, if that makes you happy. I will take back that I'm going to read that book for fun statement. Instead, honestly I want to know the other alternative view point and I'm a person who reads and want to know all view points. Guha's books are more of selected facts based on selected research and most of them are accurate and valid. But still I still stand to my view that he carefully writes the way he wants. Anyone who reads his book can make that out. Did I say there was no Hindu Mahasabha and they were an organization without flaws ? You are only bringing that here. And as for your points on why they wont burn his books, Guha hardly writes any stuffs that are viewed sensitively like Arun Shourie who wrote a book on Ambedkar and was dragged into streets and abused physically and that book was subsequently banned. You seem to forget that Hindu Mahasabha got chided out for protesting against partition, which itself is root of many communal problems plaguing out country these days. -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: --- On Wed, 29/4/09, Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History') To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, 6:35 PM Ah Kiran, I knew before that Doniger and Pankaj Mishra are both generally well criticized writers. Mishra's posts have been criticized and proved to be hollow before and these are the types of writers who along with Martha Nausbaum try to write carefully as to make their side of argument stand out. As opposed to the other type of writer who try to write carelessly 'as to make their side of argument' stand in? Ramachandra guha is another example. He would cleverly filter out non-Nehru and non-congress stuffs from his books. What an abomination! You mean there's nothing at all on the Hindu Mahasabha in this base, rotten scoundrel's books? Why don't they ban him, and then burn his book? Preferably while he's holding its only printed copy? So I would pick a low priced copy of this book just for the reading fun :-) Reading fun? Reading is serious stuff, to be attended to in suitably earnest mood, with some tissues at one's side. What fun? -- Bharat On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/29 Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com Ok, fairly interesting book. Looks like Doniger is somebody whose scholarship disputed and has a fairly strong inclination to favor a sexual interpretation of Hindu texts. But as the article below points out, this malaise has spread throughout US Hinduism studies. http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2004/06/U-S-Hinduism-Studies-A-Question-Of-Shoddy-Scholarship.aspx?p=1 This particular excerpt from the article was enough to convince me that she should be read with a pinch of salt - [University of Chicago professor Wendy Doniger has been quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer calling the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Hindu text, a dishonest book that justifies war.] I'm no scholar of the Gita, but I have read 4 versions/translations/interpretations, and I'm confused on how she arrived at this conclusion. The wikipedia article doesn't speak too highly of her either (though it is disputed), so you if you are reading it, you might want to check out the talk section for it too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wendy_Doniger But if you do manage to find a lower priced India copy, do let me know. I'm poor too :) Kiran Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/ Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to http://in.business.yahoo.com/
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Having said that, I wonder if there is any service that allows people at USA order books from Indian stores with delivery to the US listed addresses ? The books I get here are WAY cheaper than the US, but they almost all say For sale only in India, Pakistan, Bangalesh, Sri Lanka, etc. Just like region codes for DVDs, it's a scheme to base prices on the cost of living. Fair enough, that's business.
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Searching through the Philadelphia Inquirer's archives (from 1981 to present) failed to yield that infamous November 19, 2000 quote by Doniger about the Gita being a dishonest book and not as nice a book as Americans think. Yes. I tried the same and couldn't, but even if you do, you have to pay $2.95 to access the article. But searching for it yields too many results for it to be a case of misquoting. Also, among the search results, I don't see any which mention she was misquoted. If you do, please let me know. I don't think many would disagree that it proclaims just wars to be justified. The reasoning is little more complicated than that, but if you want to sum up the philosophy in a few words by interpreting it only in the context in which the sermon was delivered, then yes, I suppose you could arrive at that conclusion. Kiran
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Visiting India in 1921, E. M. Forster witnessed the eight-day celebration of Lord Krishna’s birthday. This first encounter with devotional ecstasy left the Bloomsbury aesthete baffled. “There is no dignity, no taste, no form,” he complained in a letter home. Brits were kinda uptight back then. See The Family Guy for the scene where they depict British Porn (probably on You Tube). Hilarious. Recoiling from Hindu India, Forster was relieved to enter the relatively rational world of Islam. Describing the muezzin’s call at the Taj Mahal, he wrote, “I knew at all events where I stood and what I heard; it was a land that was not merely atmosphere but had definite outlines and horizons.” Yeah, as an infidel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel) -- welcome to Monotheism: there can be only one The British Army captain who discovered the erotic temples of Khajuraho in the early 19th century was outraged by how “extremely indecent and offensive” depictions of fornicating couples profaned a “place of worship.” Lord Macaulay thundered against the worship, still widespread in India today, of the Shiva lingam. Even Karl Marx inveighed against how man, “the sovereign of nature,” had degraded himself in India by worshipping Hanuman, the monkey god. Fornication rules. Watch the Animal Channel -- under our civilian vaneer we are so much like our primate cousins that it's chilling. Repelled by such pagan blasphemies, the first British scholars of India went so far as to invent what we now call “Hinduism,” complete with a mainstream classical tradition consisting entirely of Sanskrit philosophical texts like the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanishads. In fact, most Indians in the 18th century knew no Sanskrit, the language exclusive to Brahmins. My ancestors were Brahmins -- both landlords and civil servants in recent history. When I hear how they treated non-Brahmins, it makes me furious. Egalitarianism isn't beneficient, it's protecting ones own freedom. And they found keen collaborators among upper-caste Indian scholars and translators. This British-Brahmin version of Hinduism — one of the many invented traditions born around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries Everybody wants to rule the world. That should be the qualifiing test to make sure that you're never allowed to. These mostly upper-caste and middle-class nationalists have accelerated the modernization and homogenization of “Hinduism.” And in the US, rich people brandish Christianity while mocking Obama for saying We all do better when we share the wealth a little bit. What kind of pinko commie would say that (Why... their own Jesus Christ). People with money and power use whatever powers they can to hold their own positions and enfranchise their children to it. Far from being a slave to mindless superstition, popular religious legend conveys a darkly ambiguous view of human action. Revered as heroes in one region, the characters of the great epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharata” can be regarded as villains in another. Demons and gods are dialectically interrelated in a complex cosmic order that would make little sense to the theologians of the so-called war on terror. Polemic thought makes everything easier. It makes hate and love so much more passionate. Nevermind that it mirrors almost nothing in the natural world. Brain hurt me think too hard, ugh. As she puts it, “It’s not all about Brahmins, Sanskrit, the Gita.” It’s also not about perfidious Muslims who destroyed innumerable Hindu temples and forcibly converted millions of Indians to Islam. It makes perfect sense to me that people disenfranchised by Hinduism would willingly convert. Shovel your own nightsoil, Brahmins. BTW, Christianity permeanted the Roman Empire in the same way -- blessed are the poor? One life and then heaven? Where do I sign up?!? Can't blame 'em. I'd have done the same. Happily, it will also serve as a salutary antidote to the fanatics who perceive — correctly — the fluid existential identities and commodious metaphysic of practiced Indian religions as a threat to their project of a culturally homogenous and militant nation-state. I think they'd find any pretext for this. I'm somewhat surprised how violent the empahtically indenfied Hindus are here. Lets do some empericism. Traits of the most economically successful countries with the highest average level quality of life: 1) Not very religious 2) Highly egalitarian 3) Polite drivers who follow the rules 4) Low corruption 5) Alcohol consumption 6) High degree of women's rights, and promiscuity 7) Low or no abject poverty 8) Low violence and crime (I'm not talking about the US on this -- mainly western Europe) I dunno what it is but the countries that treat women like second class citizens, are incredibly concerned about everyone elses sex life (and limiting it), drive like thoughless maniacs (e.g. don't give a crap about anyone but themselves,
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: Visiting India in 1921, E. M. Forster witnessed the eight-day celebration of Lord Krishna’s birthday. This first encounter with devotional ecstasy left the Bloomsbury aesthete baffled. “There is no dignity, no taste, no form,” he complained in a letter home. Brits were kinda uptight back then. See The Family Guy for the scene where they depict British Porn (probably on You Tube). Hilarious. I would recommend Coupling[1] - the original UK version (not the US remake by NBC which was pretty lame) -- Vinayak 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(UK_TV_series)
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
I would recommend Coupling[1] - the original UK version (not the US remake by NBC which was pretty lame) -- Vinayak 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(UK_TV_series) You could not be more right. I loved the UK Coupling, own every episode. Jeff Murdoch is a prophet! :-)
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: I would recommend Coupling[1] - the original UK version (not the US remake by NBC which was pretty lame) -- Vinayak 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(UK_TV_series) You could not be more right. I loved the UK Coupling, own every episode. Jeff Murdoch is a prophet! :-) Yay ! another coupling fan :) The wordplay, the double entendres (hidden connections ala Seinfeld) interspersed all over the dialogue makes it more fun to watch it with friends as they are sometimes difficult to spot. -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Vinayak Hegde wrote: I would recommend Coupling[1] - the original UK version (not the US remake by NBC which was pretty lame) I have four seasons of the show, if anyone is interested... Venkat
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
(hidden connections ala Seinfeld) YES YES YES!! That's what's so brilliant -- how 3 or more seemingly indepent plot lines end up dovetailing multiplicatively. You have made my day :-) I wish my DVDs weren't on the other side of the world at the moment. I'm am Giselle, the French bitch! Wa-kish! And I'm Dick Darlington!
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Ravi Bellur wrote: I'm am Giselle, the French bitch! Wa-kish! No, I am Giselle. No, I am Giselle! And then the island Lesbos! :-)
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Repelled by such pagan blasphemies, the first British scholars of India went so far as to invent what we now call “Hinduism,” complete with a mainstream classical tradition consisting entirely of Sanskrit philosophical texts like the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanishads. In fact, most Indians in the 18th century knew no Sanskrit, the language exclusive to Brahmins. For centuries, they remained unaware of the hymns of the four Vedas or the idealist monism of the Upanishads that the German Romantics, American Transcendentalists and other early Indophiles solemnly supposed to be the very essence of Indian civilization. (Smoking chillums and chanting “Om,” the Beats were closer to the mark.) http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/236/1/Bhavishya-Purana-The-Prediction-of-Jesus-Christ/Page1.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhavishya_Purana Smoking anything in Indian summers is harakiri to health. -- .
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Venkat Mangudi s...@venkatmangudi.com wrote: Ravi Bellur wrote: I'm am Giselle, the French bitch! Wa-kish! No, I am Giselle. No, I am Giselle! And then the island Lesbos! :-) There are so many brilliant episodes and scenes. But I think beep beep inferno is my favourite especially the scene where Steve tries to explain the plot at the table :) -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
There are so many brilliant episodes and scenes. But I think beep beep inferno is my favourite especially the scene where Steve tries to explain the plot at the table :) -- Vinayak Ah, Lesbian Spank Inferno. Good one. But my favorite has to be the one with the Israeli girl seen twice, each time from the perspective of only understanding one of the languages (don't watch with Hebrew speakers or it'll ruin it -- I have no idea what language Jeff speaks in the second perspective part). The Girl with Two Breasts I think is the name of the episode. Shadaym!!
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Ravi Bellur wrote: it'll ruin it -- I have no idea what language Jeff speaks in the second perspective part). The Girl with Two Breasts I think is the name of the episode. Shadaym!! Shdaym it is... Awesome episode. Have to watch it tonight before I sleep. :-)
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Ravi Bellur wrote: perspective part). The Girl with Two Breasts I think is the name of the episode. Shadaym!! If women knew what went on here [pointing at his head], they would kill us on the spot. Men are not people. We are disgustoids in human form Jeff in coupling, above episode.
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com wrote: One friend felt the Mahabharat to be highly casteist - the prejudice is openly displayed Well, to be honest, essentially all of the world's key religious texts are primitive, based in a tribal world-view; they encourage violence, sexual oppression, and all sorts of behavior that a modern reasonably civilized person would consider unacceptable. -T
[silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/books/review/Mishra-t.html?pagewanted=print Another Incarnation By PANKAJ MISHRA THE HINDUS An Alternative History By Wendy Doniger 779 pp. The Penguin Press. $35 Visiting India in 1921, E. M. Forster witnessed the eight-day celebration of Lord Krishna’s birthday. This first encounter with devotional ecstasy left the Bloomsbury aesthete baffled. “There is no dignity, no taste, no form,” he complained in a letter home. Recoiling from Hindu India, Forster was relieved to enter the relatively rational world of Islam. Describing the muezzin’s call at the Taj Mahal, he wrote, “I knew at all events where I stood and what I heard; it was a land that was not merely atmosphere but had definite outlines and horizons.” Forster, who later used his appalled fascination with India’s polytheistic muddle to superb effect in his novel “A Passage to India,” was only one in a long line of Britons who felt their notions of order and morality challenged by Indian religious and cultural practices. The British Army captain who discovered the erotic temples of Khajuraho in the early 19th century was outraged by how “extremely indecent and offensive” depictions of fornicating couples profaned a “place of worship.” Lord Macaulay thundered against the worship, still widespread in India today, of the Shiva lingam. Even Karl Marx inveighed against how man, “the sovereign of nature,” had degraded himself in India by worshipping Hanuman, the monkey god. Repelled by such pagan blasphemies, the first British scholars of India went so far as to invent what we now call “Hinduism,” complete with a mainstream classical tradition consisting entirely of Sanskrit philosophical texts like the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanishads. In fact, most Indians in the 18th century knew no Sanskrit, the language exclusive to Brahmins. For centuries, they remained unaware of the hymns of the four Vedas or the idealist monism of the Upanishads that the German Romantics, American Transcendentalists and other early Indophiles solemnly supposed to be the very essence of Indian civilization. (Smoking chillums and chanting “Om,” the Beats were closer to the mark.) As Wendy Doniger, a scholar of Indian religions at the University of Chicago, explains in her staggeringly comprehensive book, the British Indologists who sought to tame India’s chaotic polytheisms had a “Protestant bias in favor of scripture.” In “privileging” Sanskrit over local languages, she writes, they created what has proved to be an enduring impression of a “unified Hinduism.” And they found keen collaborators among upper-caste Indian scholars and translators. This British-Brahmin version of Hinduism — one of the many invented traditions born around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries — has continued to find many takers among semi-Westernized Hindus suffering from an inferiority complex vis-à-vis the apparently more successful and organized religions of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. The Hindu nationalists of today, who long for India to become a muscular international power, stand in a direct line of 19th-century Indian reform movements devoted to purifying and reviving a Hinduism perceived as having grown too fragmented and weak. These mostly upper-caste and middle-class nationalists have accelerated the modernization and homogenization of “Hinduism.” Still, the nontextual, syncretic religious and philosophical traditions of India that escaped the attention of British scholars flourish even today. Popular devotional cults, shrines, festivals, rites and legends that vary across India still form the worldview of a majority of Indians. Goddesses, as Doniger writes, “continue to evolve.” Bollywood produced the most popular one of my North Indian childhood: Santoshi Mata, who seemed to fulfill the materialistic wishes of newly urbanized Hindus. Far from being a slave to mindless superstition, popular religious legend conveys a darkly ambiguous view of human action. Revered as heroes in one region, the characters of the great epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharata” can be regarded as villains in another. Demons and gods are dialectically interrelated in a complex cosmic order that would make little sense to the theologians of the so-called war on terror. Doniger sets herself the ambitious task of writing “a narrative alternative to the one constituted by the most famous texts in Sanskrit.” As she puts it, “It’s not all about Brahmins, Sanskrit, the Gita.” It’s also not about perfidious Muslims who destroyed innumerable Hindu temples and forcibly converted millions of Indians to Islam. Doniger, who cannot but be aware of the political historiography of Hindu nationalists, the most powerful interpreters of Indian religions in both India and abroad today, also wishes to provide an “alternative to the narrative of Hindu history that they tell.” She writes at length about the devotional “bhakti” tradition, an ecstatic and radically egalitarian form of Hindu
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Ok, fairly interesting book. But the price tag is too high for a poor guy like me :-(. I'd hope it becomes available in the public libraries at the place I stay now at, or I'd have to outsource it from India to here. Having said that, I wonder if there is any service that allows people at USA order books from Indian stores with delivery to the US listed addresses ? -- Bharat On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/books/review/Mishra-t.html?pagewanted=print Another Incarnation By PANKAJ MISHRA THE HINDUS An Alternative History By Wendy Doniger 779 pp. The Penguin Press. $35 Visiting India in 1921, E. M. Forster witnessed the eight-day celebration of Lord Krishna’s birthday. This first encounter with devotional ecstasy left the Bloomsbury aesthete baffled. “There is no dignity, no taste, no form,” he complained in a letter home. Recoiling from Hindu India, Forster was relieved to enter the relatively rational world of Islam. Describing the muezzin’s call at the Taj Mahal, he wrote, “I knew at all events where I stood and what I heard; it was a land that was not merely atmosphere but had definite outlines and horizons.” Forster, who later used his appalled fascination with India’s polytheistic muddle to superb effect in his novel “A Passage to India,” was only one in a long line of Britons who felt their notions of order and morality challenged by Indian religious and cultural practices. The British Army captain who discovered the erotic temples of Khajuraho in the early 19th century was outraged by how “extremely indecent and offensive” depictions of fornicating couples profaned a “place of worship.” Lord Macaulay thundered against the worship, still widespread in India today, of the Shiva lingam. Even Karl Marx inveighed against how man, “the sovereign of nature,” had degraded himself in India by worshipping Hanuman, the monkey god. Repelled by such pagan blasphemies, the first British scholars of India went so far as to invent what we now call “Hinduism,” complete with a mainstream classical tradition consisting entirely of Sanskrit philosophical texts like the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanishads. In fact, most Indians in the 18th century knew no Sanskrit, the language exclusive to Brahmins. For centuries, they remained unaware of the hymns of the four Vedas or the idealist monism of the Upanishads that the German Romantics, American Transcendentalists and other early Indophiles solemnly supposed to be the very essence of Indian civilization. (Smoking chillums and chanting “Om,” the Beats were closer to the mark.) As Wendy Doniger, a scholar of Indian religions at the University of Chicago, explains in her staggeringly comprehensive book, the British Indologists who sought to tame India’s chaotic polytheisms had a “Protestant bias in favor of scripture.” In “privileging” Sanskrit over local languages, she writes, they created what has proved to be an enduring impression of a “unified Hinduism.” And they found keen collaborators among upper-caste Indian scholars and translators. This British-Brahmin version of Hinduism — one of the many invented traditions born around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries — has continued to find many takers among semi-Westernized Hindus suffering from an inferiority complex vis-à-vis the apparently more successful and organized religions of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. The Hindu nationalists of today, who long for India to become a muscular international power, stand in a direct line of 19th-century Indian reform movements devoted to purifying and reviving a Hinduism perceived as having grown too fragmented and weak. These mostly upper-caste and middle-class nationalists have accelerated the modernization and homogenization of “Hinduism.” Still, the nontextual, syncretic religious and philosophical traditions of India that escaped the attention of British scholars flourish even today. Popular devotional cults, shrines, festivals, rites and legends that vary across India still form the worldview of a majority of Indians. Goddesses, as Doniger writes, “continue to evolve.” Bollywood produced the most popular one of my North Indian childhood: Santoshi Mata, who seemed to fulfill the materialistic wishes of newly urbanized Hindus. Far from being a slave to mindless superstition, popular religious legend conveys a darkly ambiguous view of human action. Revered as heroes in one region, the characters of the great epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharata” can be regarded as villains in another. Demons and gods are dialectically interrelated in a complex cosmic order that would make little sense to the theologians of the so-called war on terror. Doniger sets herself the ambitious task of writing “a narrative alternative to the one constituted by the most famous texts in Sanskrit.” As she puts it, “It’s not all about Brahmins, Sanskrit,
