Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On 8/28/13 9:26 AM August 28, 2013, Thaths wrote: On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Charles Haynes charles.hay...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't improving one's life just a collection of individual life hacks? Some improvements can be achieved by a sequence of locally optimal smaller improvements, but not all. Which is to say, you may not be able to hack your way to happiness. may not is not the same as will not, right? I wonder why some people are more successful at this than others. I suspect debilitating conditions like clinical depression makes it difficult for some to achieve happiness. It's probably complicated. I think, though, that a good serviceable set of beliefs and attitudes can really help a person pull herself up by the bootstraps. Something like the placebo effect for lifehacking. It works at least in part because you believe you can do it. If it doesn't work, the right attitude can help you keep trying different things until you hit on something that does work instead of giving up when you hit the first snag. -- Heather Madrone (heat...@madrone.com) http://www.sunsplinter.blogspot.com Live sweetly in bitter times.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 12:37 +0530, Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: Perhaps I've just met the wrong demographic among those who read self-help books, but most of those who have pushed such books at me were fairly successful - and I wasn't aware of any failure that prompted them to read such books. Interesting observation and here is my explanation The person/s who pushed such books were fairly successful in your eyes, but they might feel that they are not successful enough. I have seen this among several colleagues of mine, who have, from time to time referred to self improvement books or courses they have attended. shiv
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On 27 August 2013 19:02, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Why the dichotomy? Are you suggesting that personality/character is not trainable/malleable? Trainable - perhaps Malleable - absolutely Kiran
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On 28 August 2013 18:19, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting observation and here is my explanation The person/s who pushed such books were fairly successful in your eyes, but they might feel that they are not successful enough. I have seen this among several colleagues of mine, who have, from time to time referred to self improvement books or courses they have attended. Either that or self-affirmation is the motive. Kiran
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 6:48 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 August 2013 19:02, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Why the dichotomy? Are you suggesting that personality/character is not trainable/malleable? Trainable - perhaps Malleable - absolutely I still don't understand why you say skill training is different from behavior training. There is increasing evidence showing that personality/character is trainable. See: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/brains/2007/04/train_your_brain.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness_(psychology) Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't improving one's life just a collection of individual life hacks? Some improvements can be achieved by a sequence of locally optimal smaller improvements, but not all. Which is to say, you may not be able to hack your way to happiness. -- Charles * * *In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few*.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Charles Haynes charles.hay...@gmail.com wrote: Which is to say, you may not be able to hack your way to happiness. I have personal experience that is very much to the contrary but I'm just a data point and not a representative sample size.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Charles Haynes charles.hay...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't improving one's life just a collection of individual life hacks? Some improvements can be achieved by a sequence of locally optimal smaller improvements, but not all. Which is to say, you may not be able to hack your way to happiness. may not is not the same as will not, right? I wonder why some people are more successful at this than others. I suspect debilitating conditions like clinical depression makes it difficult for some to achieve happiness. Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
When I say A hill climbing algorithm does not always find a global maximum and you reply But mine did! I have three replies. 1) That does not refute the original assertion (as I'm sure you know) 2) How do you know? (That you found the global maximum) 3) If the plural of anecdote is not data, then obviously the singular is not (as you know) -- Charles
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Well for one reason, you may have the problem that all hill climbing algorithms are subject to. You may get stuck on a local maximum where every small change (hack) actually makes things worse. In which case you either have to completely change where you're starting from, or you have to use an algorithm that is not based on small continuous improvements. (or be happy with a local maximum!) :) -- Charles
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps I've just met the wrong demographic among those who read self-help books, but most of those who have pushed such books at me were fairly successful - and I wasn't aware of any failure that prompted them to read such books. I can't speak to your experience of course, but it's my experience that everyone was a stumbling beginner once upon a time. It might be impossible to believe that a good cook was ever a novice, but maybe they just learned that they could use help pretty early. Of course, some stubbornly learn only from burning their way through every pan in the kitchen, but to each his own. There's nothing wrong or shameful in turning to a recipe book as long as they follow instructions properly. Getting others to cook the meal is something else - good while it lasts but ensures starvation when the cooks leave.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:45 AM, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote: This can happen even without mollycoddling/spoiling (the autopilot). A child can simply do well in school and college because his interests and ability happen to coincide with the direction his parents want him, and encourage him, to take - so he cruises through early life until he hits the first roadblock. Fate may arrange a smooth ride for some, but when the bumps start you better have your seat belts on. I am bemused that high schools in India teach Abraham Maslow's Heirarchy of needs and other clinical models of self actualization. This is ironical in the extreme since every spiritual text in India is actually about getting the reader to self actualization and not merely observing that there are such people. I wish modern education would focus less on facts that can be tested in an exam and more on useful life skills. Schools should teach kids personal responsibility - that is taking charge of personal finance, personal relationships, physical health, and emotions. I suspect the problem is that the teachers themselves may need to take those lessons first.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On 27 August 2013 15:53, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: I can't speak to your experience of course, but it's my experience that everyone was a stumbling beginner once upon a time. I wasn't denying this. It might be impossible to believe that a good cook was ever a novice, but maybe they just learned that they could use help pretty early. Of course, some stubbornly learn only from burning their way through every pan in the kitchen, but to each his own. There's nothing wrong or shameful in turning to a recipe book as long as they follow instructions properly. Technical books to increase knowledge and hone skills are not in the same category as self-help, which deal in subjects usually ascribed to one's personality or character.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:24 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: Technical books to increase knowledge and hone skills are not in the same category as self-help, which deal in subjects usually ascribed to one's personality or character. Why the dichotomy? Are you suggesting that personality/character is not trainable/malleable? Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On 23 August 2013 23:23, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: I began to wonder if hipster life hacking was different from self-help. Maybe the difference between the two is socio-economic? Are you saying being socio-economically backward might help in preventing the development of a large ego? An ego that doesn't refuse help when offered at cut rate prices? I think confidence stemming from a good education, early success, good looks or brains comes with the following baggage: a) I am perfect as I am, no self help guru is going to help me improve b) My self image would be hurt if a self help book could teach me something, my success is all my own c) The trash that the commoners read couldn't possibly be also applicable to me, I'll need something written to my level of elegance d) I'm supposed to know all this, so I'll assume I do Everyone reaches out for help in self development at some point in their lives. It can be via expensive therapists, religion, a soul mate, friends, mentors, hobbies, adventures or self help books. The age at which they reach for help usually depends on their lack of failure until then. Perhaps I've just met the wrong demographic among those who read self-help books, but most of those who have pushed such books at me were fairly successful - and I wasn't aware of any failure that prompted them to read such books. Kiran
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
I agree parenting support and the money cushions rich kids from life's problems. I used those three as examples of grown up problems that hit successful people in their thirties these days. The college admission, the career, the marriage all happen more or less on auto pilot if you merely turn up for life and don't mess up bad. A good school gets a good college which gets a good career etc. In the traditional affluent Indian family of fifty-hundred years ago the support system would have extended all the way through life. Through raising the kids, through getting them married, through retirement and death. But then adult life these days involves leaving the family and living alone or as a couple in strange new towns and countries. That's usually when they find themselves in the rain with no umbrella. On Aug 24, 2013 8:57 AM, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 2013-08-23 at 23:23 +0530, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Privileged kids don't usually face serious hardship that shatters their confidence until their start-up fails, their marriage tanks or their addictive habits get the better of them. While I agree with the general point you make about self help books, the above assertion is inaccurate to the extent that privileged kids have far faaar many more opportunities to have their confidence shattered than those three reasons. It's just that parents of privileged kids can provide the buffer required in terms of money and time to help their kids recover. shiv
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 12:38 +0530, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: I agree parenting support and the money cushions rich kids from life's problems. I used those three as examples of grown up problems that hit successful people in their thirties these days. The college admission, the career, the marriage all happen more or less on auto pilot if you merely turn up for life and don't mess up bad. A good school gets a good college which gets a good career etc. In the traditional affluent Indian family of fifty-hundred years ago the support system would have extended all the way through life. Through raising the kids, through getting them married, through retirement and death. You are sparking off some interesting (to me) thoughts in my head (or whatever part of my body I use for thinking). Let me try and explain.. Failure and disappointment come in many guises. The possible reactions to failure and disappointment are limited to the same emotions, depression, anger, denial etc. Helping a person cope with that almost never involves reversing the original issue that triggered off the sense of failure. A child who loses a competition he has been practising for and expecting to win because he has won all practice sessions cannot be given a prize because he is disappointed or depressed, but he can be taught how to cope with failure. So the question is, if people are taught how to cope with failure early, would they not be able to better cope with failure later? In other words, those privileged kids who become adults and later break down after failure are perhaps people who have not earlier faced failure or the possibility of failure? This can happen even without mollycoddling/spoiling (the autopilot). A child can simply do well in school and college because his interests and ability happen to coincide with the direction his parents want him, and encourage him, to take - so he cruises through early life until he hits the first roadblock. shiv
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 20, 2013 8:48 PM, Sriram Karra karra@gmail.com wrote: I was asking if GTD can be considered self help. The above strongly indicates your question is really something else. If not why do you care one way or the other? So, Thaths, what is your *real* question? I don't understand. Can you elaborate? Hehehe. What I am personally curious about is to know why you asked that question in the first place. Do you have a particular view on the self-help genre? Do you feel it changes anything about the self-help genre or about the GTD cult one way or the other? It was the juxtaposition of your question with Kiran's strong views that triggered this curiosity.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: The above strongly indicates your question is really something else. If not why do you care one way or the other? So, Thaths, what is your *real* question? I don't understand. Can you elaborate? Sounds like Karra is experimenting with an ELIZA bot. :) Heh, reading the above exchange, hard to say which side Eliza is on? :)
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Sriram Karra karra@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 20, 2013 8:48 PM, Sriram Karra karra@gmail.com wrote: I was asking if GTD can be considered self help. The above strongly indicates your question is really something else. If not why do you care one way or the other? So, Thaths, what is your *real* question? I don't understand. Can you elaborate? Hehehe. What I am personally curious about is to know why you asked that question in the first place. As I prefaced my first post in this thread up-stream, I did not even remember seeing this thread (from 2009) when it first appeared in this list. I stumbled into this thread searching for something else. Re-reading this thread I wondered if there were socio-economic factors behind the uniformly negative reactions (in this thread) to the Covey/Carnegie-genre of self-help books. Do you have a particular view on the self-help genre? My view is that judging by the fact that platforms in India are littered with pirated copies of these books, there must be a large leadership. And they must sell well because, presumably, a largish segment of the population find these books useful. I began to wonder if hipster life hacking was different from self-help. Maybe the difference between the two is socio-economic? Do you feel it changes anything about the self-help genre or about the GTD cult one way or the other? It was the juxtaposition of your question with Kiran's strong views that triggered this curiosity. It doesn't change anything about the self-help genre (or GTD). Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: I began to wonder if hipster life hacking was different from self-help. Maybe the difference between the two is socio-economic? Are you saying being socio-economically backward might help in preventing the development of a large ego? An ego that doesn't refuse help when offered at cut rate prices? I think confidence stemming from a good education, early success, good looks or brains comes with the following baggage: a) I am perfect as I am, no self help guru is going to help me improve b) My self image would be hurt if a self help book could teach me something, my success is all my own c) The trash that the commoners read couldn't possibly be also applicable to me, I'll need something written to my level of elegance d) I'm supposed to know all this, so I'll assume I do Everyone reaches out for help in self development at some point in their lives. It can be via expensive therapists, religion, a soul mate, friends, mentors, hobbies, adventures or self help books. The age at which they reach for help usually depends on their lack of failure until then. Privileged kids don't usually face serious hardship that shatters their confidence until their start-up fails, their marriage tanks or their addictive habits get the better of them. That's when their ability to persist gets truly tested. When you are closer to the bread line this test comes very early and self help books are affordable and accessible. Self help books are are written to help and not to win the Pulitzer. I think they rather deliberately don't use big words or scary terms - it would go against the idea of extending genuine help. Plus, the advice is still as good if it comes off the sidewalk hawker in pirated print. I am glad self help gurus and their books exist for the unwashed masses who can't afford personal sessions with Sri Sris and SSRIs.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have a particular view on the self-help genre? My view is that judging by the fact that platforms in India are littered with pirated copies of these books, there must be a large leadership. And I guess you meant readership. Freudian slip eh ? :) -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Vinayak Hegde vinay...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have a particular view on the self-help genre? My view is that judging by the fact that platforms in India are littered with pirated copies of these books, there must be a large leadership. And I guess you meant readership. Freudian slip eh ? :) :-) Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Fri, 2013-08-23 at 23:23 +0530, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Privileged kids don't usually face serious hardship that shatters their confidence until their start-up fails, their marriage tanks or their addictive habits get the better of them. While I agree with the general point you make about self help books, the above assertion is inaccurate to the extent that privileged kids have far faaar many more opportunities to have their confidence shattered than those three reasons. It's just that parents of privileged kids can provide the buffer required in terms of money and time to help their kids recover. shiv
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: I cannot remember seeing this thread in Silk when it first happened. I stumbled upon this corpse when I was searching for something else. That said, I had a followup question. What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? S. Are you asking about the efficacy of say GTD or a mailing list dealing with GTD? GTD is an interesting concept but what I found is that most mailing lists get bogged down in implementation and tweaks and not about the philosophy. When i first read the book, I was quite gung ho but the only notable success story that I have from my experiment with GTD was to repair a vacuum cleaner that has been out of action for a couple of years. Anyway there are some good concepts* to be learnt and it is best not to get bogged down into reading about it. Life hacker is mildly interesting and once in a blue moon gives you something you can actually use. The useful section is the one on downloads, browser addons etc. Deepak * - Differentiate between a project and next action. (This is the most useful learning in my opinion) - Take an immediate decision on what has to be done on something which is in your in-box (Act, schedule, delete , file) - Ensure that every project has a next action
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Deepak Misra yahoogro...@deepakmisra.comwrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one?Are you asking about the efficacy of say GTD or a mailing list dealing with GTD? I was asking if GTD can be considered self help. Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Deepak Misra you asking about the efficacy of say GTD or a mailing list dealing with GTD? I was asking if GTD can be considered self help. Thaths GTD would be found in the self help section in a book store I am sure. Deepak
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Deepak Misra yahoogro...@deepakmisra.comwrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one?Are you asking about the efficacy of say GTD or a mailing list dealing with GTD? I was asking if GTD can be considered self help. The above strongly indicates your question is really something else. If not why do you care one way or the other? So, Thaths, what is your *real* question?
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Aug 20, 2013 8:48 PM, Sriram Karra karra@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Deepak Misra yahoogro...@deepakmisra.comwrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one?Are you asking about the efficacy of say GTD or a mailing list dealing with GTD? I was asking if GTD can be considered self help. The above strongly indicates your question is really something else. If not why do you care one way or the other? So, Thaths, what is your *real* question? I don't understand. Can you elaborate? Thaths
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: The above strongly indicates your question is really something else. If not why do you care one way or the other? So, Thaths, what is your *real* question? I don't understand. Can you elaborate? Sounds like Karra is experimenting with an ELIZA bot. :) Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
I cannot remember seeing this thread in Silk when it first happened. I stumbled upon this corpse when I was searching for something else. That said, I had a followup question. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? S. -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
In seven habits' defense it is actually quite good in a corporate coaching environment if you find a trainer who knows his job. Anyway it is simply a method by which you can become more systematic in whatever you do, if you aren't already. Life hacker is strictly on a caveat emptor basis, totally may not work for you. --srs (htc one x) - Reply message - From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com To: silklist@lists.hserus.net silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] On self-improvement Date: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 2:51 AM I cannot remember seeing this thread in Silk when it first happened. I stumbled upon this corpse when I was searching for something else. That said, I had a followup question. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? S. -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? IMO, blogs like lifehacker are task-focused rather than trying to improve the reader. GTD might be a different beast - its proponents display some of the same quasi-religious fervour that a Covey trainer conveys. :) Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
I quite like LifeHacker. A little less for the GTD-type info and lot more for the smarter way to hack / use tech stuff. On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: I cannot remember seeing this thread in Silk when it first happened. I stumbled upon this corpse when I was searching for something else. That said, I had a followup question. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? S. -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? IMO, blogs like lifehacker are task-focused rather than trying to improve the reader. Isn't improving one's life just a collection of individual life hacks? How is a Carnegian tip about winning friends different from a life hack? I guess self actualization is one of those irregular verbs: I am hacking my life, you are optimizing yours, he trying to self-help his way through his. Carnegie's text reflects the zeitgeist of the time when it was written. So does Covey's. GTD might be a different beast - its proponents display some of the same quasi-religious fervour that a Covey trainer conveys. :) Amen! Like religions, GTD has some good principles at its core, but is often taken to extremes. S. -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo!
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: What do Silk listers think about blogs like Life hacker or a GTD-focused tip-sharing mailing list? Is they in the same genre? Or a different one? IMO, blogs like lifehacker are task-focused rather than trying to improve the reader. Isn't improving one's life just a collection of individual life hacks? How is a Carnegian tip about winning friends different from a life hack? I guess self actualization is one of those irregular verbs: I am hacking my life, you are optimizing yours, he trying to self-help his way through his. Sure Thaths. Perhaps I'm just more receptive to the tech-tip kinda hacks than the re-imagine-your-kundalini type of hacks. To each his/her own. :-)
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: Yeah, and could you please start that thread, kiran? Can't wait to see the drift. Here goes... Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I read De Bono and it has proved useful. But will you count it as self improvement? The other self improvement author I read is Steve Pavlina (his blog and his newsletter). He has a lot of ideas that have helped me introspect better, but some of them seem really far fetched. I remain unconvinced. My opinion is that self-improvement works. However, it might be that what I am labeling as self-improvement, might be different from what you guys were talking about. -- raj shekhar Take my love, take my land Take me where I cannot stand I don't care, I'm still free You can't take the sky from me Read the latest at my blog: nice facebook error page http://rajshekhar.net/blog/archives/342-nice-facebook-error-page.html
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Self-improvement, to some degree, requires self-awareness. Self-help books try to bake some of this in, but I think ultimately having the ability to see your automatic thoughts and understand their motivators. I think this is the realm of cognitive psychology, and I think they use many tools from that in self-help books -- but from what I've had recommended by well-credentialed folks is Feeling Good (horribly trite title for a great book) by David Burns. It describes itself as a therapy for depression, but what it does is quite thoroughly and methologically lay forth the principles of Cognitive Therapy as created by Dr. Aaron T. Beck at the University of Pennsylvania. Burns was one of Beck's students (both MDs and clinical researchers). And obviously way before that there was Astanga Yoga where self-awareness is a big part. For Covey the Seven Traits of Highly Effective People might be obvious, but as we deconstruct it, we see that he's a Mormon, and therefore may live a fairly idyllic life free from of the vicissitudes (or fun) that some face, simple and wholesome values, and with a lot of positive thinking going on around. For those wondering why adopting those traits may be harder than just wanting to, I think self-awareness is key. Know thyself... For example, I do not like fishsticks...
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: provide strategy on self-improvement, rather than just glorifying the end-product (which fashion magazines do). When I studied object oriented programming a lng time ago, what fascinated me was how much common sense sells. Almost all the self-improvement books and courses say the same thing, IMO. I read the self-help books with the same amount of faith as I read the Left Behind[1] series. If you have not read them (IMO, absolute religious pot-smoking-vodka-drinking-mushroom-chomping-induced-drivel), I strongly recommend that you do. Every other superstitious belief will seem reasonable once you read this. Venkat [1] http://www.leftbehind.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/Left-Behind-Novel-Earths-Last/dp/0842329129/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8qid=1239648665sr=11-1
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
In fashion magazines, self-improvement is about products, as well as strategies. You could argue that sex quizzes and tips on how to acquire a 16-inch waist form basic text-based methods that offer enlightenment/improvement on consumption, much like a book with a six-step process for success - in that sense, *Cosmopolitan* is different from Covey only in format. However, the real model of self-improvement peddled in fashion mags is improvement through acquisition. The Gucci bag and the Lanvin frock are advertisements for perfection; it's the magazines' job to convince you of their centrality to the perfect life. This is not to say that fashion magazines are nothing more than glossy classifieds or that fashion itself is all commerce and no art, but like all popular culture they are products of economics first and foremost. It would be interesting to see where a self-improvement book, or series, places in a corporate ecosystem. Does it confirm or contradict corporate values [such as broad consensus can make them]? What else does it induce you to buy? Would an organisation distribute copies of Covey among employees as readily as it would, say, Goldratt? Supriya. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, and could you please start that thread, kiran? Can't wait to see the drift. Here goes... Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. Chris (the Frenchman with the tolerable accent Venkat brought along for the silkmeet) had an important point - that some of such books can provide strategy on self-improvement, rather than just glorifying the end-product (which fashion magazines do). I remain unconvinced. Take it away Venkat... Kiran -- roswitha.tumblr.com
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.netwrote: 'Team building' sessions that involve silly games at 'retreats' when everybody would much rather be socializing over beer and food is another. Fortunately whenever the team 'retreat' was organised by the team itself, food and beer was the norm. Anything organised by HR was the silly games. But I found those fun too. Textbook learning and exams were usually done by the risk and compliance department. -- Aadisht Khanna Address for mailing lists: aadisht.gro...@gmail.com Personal address: aadi...@aadisht.net
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Ah, a favorite pet peeve among 'things I'd rather a HR department not do'. 'Team building' sessions that involve silly games at 'retreats' when everybody would much rather be socializing over beer and food is another. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olPmEddZjHY -- fun parody of teambuilding in an AA ad. srs -Original Message- From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Aadisht Khanna Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:45 PM To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] On self-improvement It would be interesting to see where a self-improvement book, or series, places in a corporate ecosystem. Does it confirm or contradict corporate values [such as broad consensus can make them]? What else does it induce you to buy? Would an organisation distribute copies of Covey among employees as readily as it would, say, Goldratt? My former employer did not distribute Covey but mandated Gallup Strength-finder for everyone in a certain pay grade and above, and additional training sessions in the self-improvement line. The actual takeup of such programs or books is probably driven by a combination of the enthusiasm of senior management, the tenacity of training program sales staff, and the existence of a large enough HR cadre to ensure that everyone attends said training or receives said self-help books.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
It would be interesting to see where a self-improvement book, or series, places in a corporate ecosystem. Does it confirm or contradict corporate values [such as broad consensus can make them]? What else does it induce you to buy? Would an organisation distribute copies of Covey among employees as readily as it would, say, Goldratt? My former employer did not distribute Covey but mandated Gallup Strength-finder for everyone in a certain pay grade and above, and additional training sessions in the self-improvement line. The actual takeup of such programs or books is probably driven by a combination of the enthusiasm of senior management, the tenacity of training program sales staff, and the existence of a large enough HR cadre to ensure that everyone attends said training or receives said self-help books.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Aadisht Khanna [12/04/09 19:50 +0530]: Fortunately whenever the team 'retreat' was organised by the team itself, food and beer was the norm. Anything organised by HR was the silly games. But I found those fun too. Textbook learning and exams were usually done by the risk and compliance department. I dont particularly mind the textbook learning and exams (though I could do without them) but if I wanted to play games I'd have stayed in kindergarten
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
I don't find effectiveness sufficient incentive to look at self-help books - I always imagine an epitaph for myself saying she was effective and shudder with horror;-))) On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.netwrote: Aadisht Khanna [12/04/09 19:50 +0530]: Fortunately whenever the team 'retreat' was organised by the team itself, food and beer was the norm. Anything organised by HR was the silly games. But I found those fun too. Textbook learning and exams were usually done by the risk and compliance department. I dont particularly mind the textbook learning and exams (though I could do without them) but if I wanted to play games I'd have stayed in kindergarten
[silk] On self-improvement
Yeah, and could you please start that thread, kiran? Can't wait to see the drift. Here goes... Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. Chris (the Frenchman with the tolerable accent Venkat brought along for the silkmeet) had an important point - that some of such books can provide strategy on self-improvement, rather than just glorifying the end-product (which fashion magazines do). I remain unconvinced. Take it away Venkat... Kiran
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. I share some of the same skepticism This album cover comes to mind ;-) Fatboy Slim http://bp1.blogger.com/_h73g2lL0Jj4/SERILGKP-PI/AFc/qo2LkxsOOWM/s1600-h/fatboy1.jpg -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Top post. Isn't Hindu (whatever that means) philosophy all about self improvement? shiv (Sent from my desktop that occupies half a room, weighs 300 Kg and consumes 1500 watts) On Saturday 11 Apr 2009 12:45:11 pm Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: Yeah, and could you please start that thread, kiran? Can't wait to see the drift. Here goes... Can't remember why, but somewhere in between the half intoxicated banter, the conversation shifted to self-improvement books a la Stephen Covey and his ilk. I typically stay away from them with the same amount of revulsion some feminists have for balemia-inducing fashion magazines. Since I've not read any of them, I may not be the best judge - but a title like Seven habits of highly effective people is enough to make me turn away. Neither am I interested in people of a spiritual disposition who sell their Ferrari. Chris (the Frenchman with the tolerable accent Venkat brought along for the silkmeet) had an important point - that some of such books can provide strategy on self-improvement, rather than just glorifying the end-product (which fashion magazines do). I remain unconvinced. Take it away Venkat... Kiran
