Re: CSFw: silver toxicity
hello 'yall, does anyone know how i could calculate the gram or milligram content of my cs? let's say, 8oz of 20ppm for instance. thanks, angel
Re: CSFw: silver toxicity
Angel To convert part per million (by weight) into miligrams in 8 oz. do the following: One fluid oz.of CS equals about 30 grams. 8 oz. of CS is therefore 240 grams in which you have 20 ppm. The grams of silver contained in your 8 oz, 20x240/100=0.0048 gr or 4.8 miligrams. This asumes that the specific gravity of a ppm CS dispersion is 1.00. Hope it hels Frank Cuns-Rial - Original Message - From: angel nest To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 5:14 AM Subject: Re: CSFw: silver toxicity hello 'yall, does anyone know how i could calculate the gram or milligram content of my cs? let's say, 8oz of 20ppm for instance. thanks, angel
CSsilver toxicity
Hello Matthew ! concerning a 38 years old man with argyria: Matthew wrote: .The dosage was 450ml of 450ppm CS taken 3 times a day for 10 months. That concentration of 450ppm seems odd. EIS made with DW does not come close to 450ppm. the electrolysis process self-limits by going into saturation, generating precipitates or floating elemental surface crust, long before 450ppm can be reached.. I am in email contact with Dr. Wadhera and the publisher. I usually do not post private emails, but i think i can post here for a better understanding of that case a part of his email to me. I was wondering myself also about this large quantity of silver and i asked him for more details. In Germany we have a bit problems to understand if someone in the new world means ounces or fluid-ounces, which is not the same. Dr Wadhera wrote to me: ... Regarding your specific question about the consumption of silver by our patient - He reported to us that he was consuming 16 ounces of liquid (prepared as described in the paper) containing approx 450 ppm (mg/L) of colloidal silver 3 times a day for 10 months. I am not sure if he ever actually measured the concentration of silver in the liquid he was drinking. As you have mentioned in your email and included in the discussion section of the paper, using a conc of 450 mg/L in 16 oz, 3 times/day gives you a daily dose of apprx 650 mg of silver (450 mg/1000 ml * 450 ml * 3). So over a period of 10 months, assuming he drank it every day, he consumed approx 200 gm of silver To Richard: ...Please read my Site and Blogspot in which I offer 3 FREE pages of CS Uses + 1 page of my Favorites to which Irefer often. Please let me know if I can be of help... I will take a look ! *** In my calculation i made an error: If someone would use 100 ml (0.1 l) of a 10 ppm silver colloid, he or she would have an intake of 1 ppm = ~ 1 mg silver, after resoprtion (10%) 0.1 ppm = 100 ppb would enter the body and will be diluited into around 50 liters giving us a tissue-concentration of around 2 ppb. (not 20 as i posted earlier). Michael ___ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSsilver toxicity
It would seem to me that the actual amount of silver does not matter. Most important would be the process of producing EIS or CS. The method and materials should be suspect and examined. It would also seem logical for the man to bring in an actual sample for testing as well as his material and equipment as the fault may lie anywhere. For example it may have been very poor grade silver ... Of course all this may have transpired and I apologize as I am getting in late on this discussion. -Original Message- From: Michael Redecke [mailto:gammaparti...@yahoo.de] Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 8:33 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSsilver toxicity Hello Matthew ! concerning a 38 years old man with argyria: Matthew wrote: .The dosage was 450ml of 450ppm CS taken 3 times a day for 10 months. That concentration of 450ppm seems odd. EIS made with DW does not come close to 450ppm. the electrolysis process self-limits by going into saturation, generating precipitates or floating elemental surface crust, long before 450ppm can be reached..snipped -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSsilver toxicity
-Original Message- From: Ed Kasper [mailto:edkas...@pacbell.net] Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 12:20 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSsilver toxicity It would seem to me that the actual amount of silver does not matter. Most important would be the process of producing EIS or CS. The method and materials should be suspect and examined. It would also seem logical for the man to bring in an actual sample for testing as well as his material and equipment as the fault may lie anywhere. For example it may have been very poor grade silver ... I would have to agree, many are quick to jump at being alarmed when we hear of cases of CS abuse to use this word very loosely. Being on this list now for some time and reading the responses from those very experienced and knowledgeable individuals ( u know who u are *smile ); Has given me the insight as to how we are mislead many times from sources of questionable accuracy. How accurate is the information being presented? When we don't know enough, or details are left out completely, it is easy to conjure up a horror story reflecting the misuse of this or that product. When this occurs; not to discount the possibility, it is easy to place blame outwardly. After all we all know how easy that is to do and how much better it makes us feel when we don't have to take responsibility. YES!!! It's called DENIAL LOL. I am glad to know those who are hear who can straighten out the misconception and propaganda that every so often comes along to add spice into the discussions. :-) Best regards, Ernie -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS
A major part of the confusion about the topic of silver toxicity comes from not differentiating between one form of silver and another or one method of preparation and another. It reminds me of the study (a spoof) in which a group of men were first given whisky and water, then gin and water and then vermouth and water. In every case the men got drunk, which led the scientists to conclude that water made you drunk. Unless clear distinction is made between ionic/colloidal silver (CS) and all other forms of silver preparations, we are talking apples and oranges. The reason why CS is safe is for several reasons. One, the quantity of actual silver ingested is so very low, especially compared to the amounts mentioned in the scientific reports of argyria. Second, if made correctly, the particle size is so very small that it simply does not accumulate in the body like the large-particle silver salts and proteins. Third, there is no consideration given by the scientific community to differing accumulation/excretion rates of different forms of silver. The primary mechanism that has been at all acknowledged as causing silver to accumulate in the human body is the fact that large silver particles (compounds, salts, proteins) can accumulate in, as an example, the skin, because these particles get caught/lodged in the capillaries of the skin, being too large to get through. It is a recognized fact that silver joined to other substances (proteins, minerals, etc.) produce very large particles. On the other hand, *colloidal* silver particles range in size from 1/7,000th to 1/15,000th the size of a red blood cell, making the idea of them getting stuck in the capillaries rather ludicrous. Fourth, the issue of accumulation/excretion. Does any/every form of silver (protein, salt, colloidal, ionic) accumulate in the human body at the same rate? Or even at all? Roger Altmans medically supervised study demonstrated that clear, very tiny particle size CS did not accumulate in the human body whatsoever, even when ingested in voluminous quantities (quarts per day). This is not at all true of silver nitrate or silver arsphemamine. All of the studies appear to operate on the assumption that all forms of silver accumulate in the body, whatever the form or however fast the ingestion. But this must be taken into consideration, else estimates of quantities leading to argyria are meaningless. If I ingest one gram of silver (Which silver? What form?) over a period of one week or one year, does that make a difference? Altmans study demonstrates clearly that it does, at least concerning colloidal silver. Yet even the toxicology statistics discuss the methods of silver excretion (recognizing that the body does make an effort to dispose of extra or unnecessary silver). If the body does indeed excrete silver, wouldnt this affect accumulation rates? Obviously, if I ingest one gram of silver over a thirty-year period or if I do it in one day, that would be very significant. Yet none of the studies or statistics seem to comment on that important dynamic. Historically, we know that members of Europes royalty mechanically ground up silver into powder, stirred it into water or wine and drank it to protect themselves from sickness. How much larger would the smallest ground-up particles be than the largest particles found in electronically isolated colloidal silver? A thousand times bigger? 10,000 times? A million times? Some colloidal particles are so small they can pass through glass. When CS is prepared in improper ways, the particles become very large and the amount of silver in the preparation increases significantly. Even the reports that identify colloidal silver as the culprit do not examine the brewing process or the components of the preparation. Did they use tap water? Was it Fine silver or Sterling silver? How long was it brewed? What color was the CS? (In other words, what size were the particles?) Stan Jones acquired a faint bluish tinge under his eyes, but he made 8 ounces of CS using city tap water and brewed it for one hour. His CS would have looked like coffee, and he drank the whole 8 ounces each day! This was not Colloidal Silver, much less ionic silver. It was a sludge of silver compounds created by the interaction of the silver with the chemicals/minerals in the water. The scientific references to cases of argyria caused by colloidal silver do not impress me, given the way most scientists fail to differentiate between various forms of silver solutions/treatments, nor to even consider the principles of silver accumulation/excretion. Intravenous administration of an estimated total dose of 4-20 g silver arsphemamine over a 2- to 9.75-year period caused argyria in humans. Argyria developed after a total dose of 4-8 g in some patients, while in others argyria did not develop until after a total dose of 10-20 g (Gaul and Straud, 1935). http://risk.lsd.ornl.gov/tox/profiles/silver_f_V1.shtml The above is
CSsilver toxicity
concerning a 38 years old man with argyria: Matthew wrote: .The dosage was 450ml of 450ppm CS taken 3 times a day for 10 months. That concentration of 450ppm seems odd. EIS made with DW does not come close to 450ppm. the electrolysis process self-limits by going into saturation, generating precipitates or floating elemental surface crust, long before 450ppm can be reached.. Hi, Doesn't this claimed level of CS strength sound like what's posted on bottles of silver protein? Bernie
CSsilver toxicity
Hi, Bernie, Yes, the 450ppm does seem more like mild silver protein. If that was the case, then the hyperlink citation was incorrect about its manufacture, i.e. home made. Still odd. Matthew
CSsilver toxicity
Hi, Michael, Two hundred grams. Hmmm. That is equivalent to about six and a half 1-oz (~31g) bullion coins ingested in less than one year. Odd. Matthew
CSRe: silver toxicity / Frank
Thank you Frank ! Very helpful. Thanks for showing me the equation to use. Regarding the CS dispersion/gravity - 1) 1.00 means what? 1 per what? 2) how can I know which measure my CS has? I'm using a silverpuppy generator by Mr. Ken Odecoyote, by the way, if that tells you anything that I'm oblivious to... Thanks again ! Angel From: FRANK CUNS-RIAL Angel To convert part per million (by weight) into miligrams in 8 oz. do the following: One fluid oz.of CS equals about 30 grams. 8 oz. of CS is therefore 240 grams in which you have 20 ppm. The grams of silver contained in your 8 oz, 20x240/100=0.0048 gr or 4.8 miligrams. This asumes that the specific gravity of a ppm CS dispersion is 1.00. Hope it hels Frank Cuns-Rial
CS
But Frank... I think I might be in trouble What about this statement in one of Michael's emails... The US-EPA publishes an oral reference dose (RfD) that is based on a threshold for certain toxic effects such as cellular necrosis. In units of micrograms per kg per day and is an estimate of the maximum amount of daily silver exposure that is not associated with any deleterious effects over a lifetime. Current RfD for oral silver exposure is 5 micrograms per kg per day. An average (european) 70 kg man: = 350 µg/day That means that my 4.8mg-4800mcg daily is about 1500% more than the safe daily dose !! I'm about 50kg ~105lbs, so I should only be consuming 250mcg, right ??? Or am I missing something ??? Thanks again, Angel From: FRANK CUNS-RIAL Angel To convert part per million (by weight) into miligrams in 8 oz. do the following: One fluid oz.of CS equals about 30 grams. 8 oz. of CS is therefore 240 grams in which you have 20 ppm. The grams of silver contained in your 8 oz, 20x240/100=0.0048 gr or 4.8 miligrams. This asumes that the specific gravity of a ppm CS dispersion is 1.00. Hope it hels Frank Cuns-Ria
CSvrp silver protein
vitamins research sells a product that is 400mpp. It is silver protein. My friends doctor uses this daily on her in an IV. Is this safe? I thought that silver protein is considered an unsafe form of collodial silver. I think the web site is vrp.com if anyone is interested. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCSsilver toxicity
Dear Michael, I found your work of great interest and obviously you have given this a lot of thought. I think you might find a great deal to interest you on the www.natural-immunogenics.com web site. Especially click on the library icon for more on thee subjects. May I also suggest contacting the owner of the sight Stephen Quinto You can contact him directly squi...@natural-immunogenics.com. You will have some very interesting conversations with him. - Original Message - From: Michael Redecke gammaparti...@yahoo.de To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 2:42 PM Subject: CSCSsilver toxicity Hello out there ! Ist my first posting here. My name is Michael, from northern Germany. Not a silver-seller ant not a consumer of CS. I observe your discussions somehow from outside. I am in a different business (meteorology), but i studied med long time ago. Acute toxicity of silver: it is considered that 10 g of silver nitrate taken orally is a lethal dose of man. The systemic effects of a lethal dose are preceded by severe haemorrhagic gastroenteritis and shock. According to Goodman and Gilman (1965) the silver ion seems first to stimulate and then depress structures in the brain stem as silver has a neurotoxic effect in higher doses. Central vasomotor stimulation results in a rise in blood pressure. At the same time there is bradycardia due to central vagal stimulation. Death eventually results from respiratory depression. I have read that value -3.8 grams- a couple of times. It was related to the amount of silver necessary to procduce argyria in man. But in the past argyria occured also at much lower amounts of silver. The lowest possible amount of silver that may start argyria may be around 900 mg to 1 gram in some particular sensitive people. That value of 3.8 gram is of course a calculated value, it does not mean that 3.7 grams are safe and 3.9 gram are dangerous... and ist a value related to a prolonged use of silver, not to a single dose. Some people took hundreds of grams of silver over years and survived. For more details and references and some data concerning silver-reistance in bacteria, i translated a text into (simple) English. Please excuse may errors... http://www.redecke.de/michael/silver.htm Michael ___ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.8/37 - Release Date: 7/1/2005
