Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Certain HVAC methods will produce silver nitrate. It's not given and can be prevented by doing HVAC properly without any open air arcing. An electrical arc in 'damp' open air makes ozone and nitric acid. Ode At 05:49 PM 7/15/2006 -0600, you wrote: alchemySA wrote: Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) I believe the above statement might not be strictly accurate, as homemade HVAC colloidal silver probably does contain silver nitrate, per my memory of posts from ole Bob. I think that is why he gave up on it after much work on it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody have a better memory than me? sol -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Isn't this where experimenters got into argon flooding - or some inert gas - to eliminate such problems? At 08:29 PM 7/15/06 -0400, you wrote: sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com wrote: alchemySA wrote: Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) I believe the above statement might not be strictly accurate, as homemade HVAC colloidal silver probably does contain silver nitrate, per my memory of posts from ole Bob. I think that is why he gave up on it after much work on it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody have a better memory than me? sol Hi sol, As far as I recall, HVAC can make various nitrous oxides, some of which are toxic. I'm not sure if any nitrates are generated, which would be needed for nitric acid, which would be needed to make silver nitrate. We would need a real good chemist to sort this out, but I think it's pretty safe to say nobody uses HVAC for homemade cs any more. The ion concentration is too low - maybe less than 3 nines. Everyone I know who was using abandoned it long ago. One company may still use a special HVAC generator where the electrode is above the surface of the water and forms an electric arc. Frank analyzed their product and posted the results on his web site. I recall it makes about 20ppm, but I don't think Frank measures any nitrogen byproducts. I have the patent around somewhere but can't locate it at the moment. One thing I remember clearly is the patent stated the operator had to continuously adjust the spacing of the rods, and that it was fairly difficult to see the small arc. This means there would be large variations in product quality as the operator became fatigued. This seems like such a waste of effort when we can make equal or better ion concentration with LVDC, with no risk of unwanted nitrogen products. I still have two flat silver electrodes Ole Bob gave me to do comparison tests with 12 ga wire. He had used them for HVAC production, and you can see etching along the water line where the high voltage caused some arcing. I was thinking of firing them up this weekend to see if there was any change in performance with my new conductance plotting process, but it looks like the ozone machine will burn up all the available time. Regards, Mike Monett Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/06 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/06
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com wrote: Isn't this where experimenters got into argon flooding - or some inert gas to eliminate such problems? I know Jason has proposed argon flooding, but I don't know of anyone who actually used it. There really is no need. In most cases, HVAC produces very poor quality cs, except for the process I mentioned earlier. And they never bothered with argon. Simple LVDC generators at low current density easily reach the Nernst Limit, so there's no need for the expense and difficulties of handing flood gasses. Regards, Mike Monett Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Well, I guess I'm still confused. Chemical names that sound similar are always mixing themselves up in my mind. Maybe it was nitric something, or nitrous something I was thinking of, or thought I remembered. oh, well, not important, as I sure don't intend to mess with HVAC. sol Mike Monett wrote: As far as I recall, HVAC can make various nitrous oxides, some of which are toxic. I'm not sure if any nitrates are generated, which would be needed for nitric acid, which would be needed to make silver nitrate. We would need a real good chemist to sort this out, -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com wrote: Well, I guess I'm still confused. Chemical names that sound similar are always mixing themselves up in my mind. Maybe it was nitric something, or nitrous something I was thinking of, or thought I remembered. oh, well, not important, as I sure don't intend to mess with HVAC. sol Hi sol, You are a genius and don't know it. You were right all along. Nitric acid is formed from nitrogen dioxide in the arc dissolving in water. Did you miss my reply showing an experiment with an arc and moist blue litmus paper? Just in case, here it is again: You can duplicate the process on a small scale with the apparatus shown at the top of this page. Bend the lower ends of the stiff iron wires so they form a spark gap with about 2 between the points. Hang a moist strip of blue litmus paper over one. Connect the two wires to the high-voltage terminals of the spark coil. Let the spark jump the gap continuously for several minutes. The spark produces nitrogen dioxide. This in turn reacts with the moisture in the litmus paper. The litmus turns pink, indicating nitric acid has formed. http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/03/07/the-gas-that-makes-you-laugh/ The nitrogen dioxide dissolves in the water and dissociates to form nitric acid much like carbon dioxide. But the dissociation is probably much greater. The nitric acid combines with silver ions to form silver nitrate. This is a very small concentration, to be sure, but the silver nitrate is much less effective than silver ions. So you were right all along! Good idea to not mess with HVAC. Besides not working very well for making cs, it can be lethal! Regards, Mike Monett Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Hello all. When anyone does a Google seach for colloidal silver here in Australia one of the first sites they see is the US National Centre for Complementary And Alternative Medicine. I'm sure you've all seen it too and would agree that it's a pretty effective party pooper for anyone thinking about using colloidal silver. So to amuse myself on a wet windy day I've written a little rejoinder. I hope this appears in a reasonably readable format. For some reason my subject titles don't usually appear so here it is just in case. The National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine David --- The National Centre for Complementary and Alternative Medicine ( NCCAM) a US Government watchdog, makes the following claim - Colloidal silver can cause serious side effects. One is argyria, a bluish-gray discoloration of the body. This is misleading. Argyria isn't one side effect, its the ONLY known side effect from the excessive ingestion of colloidal silver. Once you overcome the fear of argyria and understand how rare it is, and how easily it's avoided, then the benefits of colloidal silver can be yours. The NCCAM goes on to make the following statement - Other side effects from using colloidal silver products may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), fatigue, headaches, kidney failure, skin irritation and stomach distress. Note they use the word MAY. But in fact they KNOW (or should know) these possible side effects in humans are speculative and entirely unproven. There are NO medical reports connecting human neurological problems with silver of any kind, let alone colloidal silver of the type made by 'home brewers'. The fear that colloidal silver might cause neurological problems and fatigue probably comes from experiments on rather unfortunate rats and mice. (Rungby and Danscher 1984 for example). In these experiments, the animals were given large daily doses of silver nitrate in their drinking water. Whilst abnormal behaviour (sluggishness) was eventually and deliberately induced, these experiments had little relevence to humans because the amounts ingested were vastly in excess of any likely human consumption. The rats intake of 18 mg/per kg/per day for 125 days is roughly the equivalent of an adult human drinking 180 litres of 10ppm colloidal silver PER DAY for 125 days straight. (It should also be noted that the rats were given silver nitrate which is known to be much more 'toxic' than pure silver. Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) The kidney failure claim has no clear reference but it appears to be related to an easily researched Indian case of Fatal renal and hepatic failure following silver nitrate instillation for treatment of chyluria. Put simply this means the unfortunate victim, I mean patient, died after an operation to inject silver nitrate directly into the centre of his kidney went horribly wrong. Apparently this is usually quite a common and successful procedure (in India) but it has nothing at all to do with drinking colloidal silver and the NCCAM should know it. I can't find any authorative information about colloidal silver causing skin irritation so I can only assume they are confusing colloidal silver with silver jewellery. This is an understandable mistake. Now, stomach distress. Have you ever heard that term before? (What a give-away that is!) But they might be on a winner here. I've read thousands of testimonials and letters from regular users of home-made colloidal silver and I must admit the occasional complaint of an upset tummy does come up. So, accepting that colloidal silver MAY cause the odd belly ache, the hysterical (and I don't mean funny) raving of the NCCAM still seems hugely at odds with the stance of such organisations at the US Environmental Protection Agency and the US Agency for Toxic Substances. Both these latter organisations have much more to lose if they 'get it wrong' but they both take seem to take a pretty casual attitide to the dangers of silver toxicity. Isn't that funny? The organisation that's supposed to be providing alternative medicine information is the one that's most opposed to alternative medicine! Regards David http://www.colloidalsilver.com.au/ http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm (The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine) http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp146.html (The Agency for Toxic Substances. 150 page silver toxicity report here) http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0099.htm (The Environmental Protection agency) --- P.S. Similar experiments that attempted to use silver to induce cancer in animals eventually concluded that cancer was non-carcogenic. The following quotes come from the US Enviromental Protection Agency 'Risk information System.' No evidence of cancer in humans has been reported despite
RE: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Hi David, Thank You and congratulations on your informative article shared with us seekers! I have been using, making and taking CS (EIS) since I first became acquainted with it several years ago and believe that CS is a special Gift from God; in that Anyone, of Any age or size, with Any health problem or disease, taking Any treatment or medication can safely add CS to their routine without Any side effects! Nothing else is so safe including necessary Oxygen or Water--either of which in excess can KILL you! I'm sharing your excellent rebuttal to all of my CS customers and friends. Please read my Site and Blog which contains FREE 3 pages of CS Uses and 1 page of my CS Favorites to which I refer often. Let me know if I can be of help and Thanks Again! Sincerely, ___ Richard Harris, 59 Year FL Pharmacist 448 West Juniata Street Clermont, FL 34711 http://www.rharrisinc.com http://www.seasilver.com/reh http://healthandhealing.blogspot.com -Original Message- From: alchemySA [mailto:da...@alchemysa.com.au] Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 9:20 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine Hello all. When anyone does a Google seach for colloidal silver here in Australia one of the first sites they see is the US National Centre for Complementary And Alternative Medicine. I'm sure you've all seen it too and would agree that it's a pretty effective party pooper for anyone thinking about using colloidal silver. So to amuse myself on a wet windy day I've written a little rejoinder. I hope this appears in a reasonably readable format. For some reason my subject titles don't usually appear so here it is just in case. The National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine David --- The National Centre for Complementary and Alternative Medicine ( NCCAM) a US Government watchdog, makes the following claim - Colloidal silver can cause serious side effects. One is argyria, a bluish-gray discoloration of the body. This is misleading. Argyria isn't one side effect, its the ONLY known side effect from the excessive ingestion of colloidal silver. Once you overcome the fear of argyria and understand how rare it is, and how easily it's avoided, then the benefits of colloidal silver can be yours. The NCCAM goes on to make the following statement - Other side effects from using colloidal silver products may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), fatigue, headaches, kidney failure, skin irritation and stomach distress. Note they use the word MAY. But in fact they KNOW (or should know) these possible side effects in humans are speculative and entirely unproven. There are NO medical reports connecting human neurological problems with silver of any kind, let alone colloidal silver of the type made by 'home brewers'. The fear that colloidal silver might cause neurological problems and fatigue probably comes from experiments on rather unfortunate rats and mice. (Rungby and Danscher 1984 for example). In these experiments, the animals were given large daily doses of silver nitrate in their drinking water. Whilst abnormal behaviour (sluggishness) was eventually and deliberately induced, these experiments had little relevence to humans because the amounts ingested were vastly in excess of any likely human consumption. The rats intake of 18 mg/per kg/per day for 125 days is roughly the equivalent of an adult human drinking 180 litres of 10ppm colloidal silver PER DAY for 125 days straight. (It should also be noted that the rats were given silver nitrate which is known to be much more 'toxic' than pure silver. Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) The kidney failure claim has no clear reference but it appears to be related to an easily researched Indian case of Fatal renal and hepatic failure following silver nitrate instillation for treatment of chyluria. Put simply this means the unfortunate victim, I mean patient, died after an operation to inject silver nitrate directly into the centre of his kidney went horribly wrong. Apparently this is usually quite a common and successful procedure (in India) but it has nothing at all to do with drinking colloidal silver and the NCCAM should know it. I can't find any authorative information about colloidal silver causing skin irritation so I can only assume they are confusing colloidal silver with silver jewellery. This is an understandable mistake. Now, stomach distress. Have you ever heard that term before? (What a give-away that is!) But they might be on a winner here. I've read thousands of testimonials and letters from regular users of home-made colloidal silver and I must admit the occasional complaint of an upset tummy does come up. So, accepting that colloidal silver MAY cause the odd belly ache, the hysterical (and I don't mean funny) raving of the NCCAM still seems hugely at odds with the stance of such organisations at the US
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
alchemySA da...@alchemysa.com.au wrote: Hello all. When anyone does a Google seach for colloidal silver here in Australia one of the first sites they see is the US National Centre for Complementary And Alternative Medicine. I'm sure you've all seen it too and would agree that it's a pretty effective party pooper for anyone thinking about using colloidal silver. So to amuse myself on a wet windy day I've written a little rejoinder. I hope this appears in a reasonably readable format. For some reason my subject titles don't usually appear so here it is just in case. The National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine David Hi David, Thanks for posting that paper. Your tone seems to have changed a bit - it's not quite so fluid and easy. Maybe there's some vestiges of the website ripoff still hanging around. I get the feeling it wouldn't be as persuasive to a newcomer to cs. Didn't you write another paper on Argyria? I'm pretty sure it was yours. It was extremely well-written, and not many people can write like that. If you can find it, could you post it? Regards, Mike Monett Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
alchemySA wrote: Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) I believe the above statement might not be strictly accurate, as homemade HVAC colloidal silver probably does contain silver nitrate, per my memory of posts from ole Bob. I think that is why he gave up on it after much work on it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody have a better memory than me? sol -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com wrote: alchemySA wrote: Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) I believe the above statement might not be strictly accurate, as homemade HVAC colloidal silver probably does contain silver nitrate, per my memory of posts from ole Bob. I think that is why he gave up on it after much work on it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody have a better memory than me? sol Hi sol, As far as I recall, HVAC can make various nitrous oxides, some of which are toxic. I'm not sure if any nitrates are generated, which would be needed for nitric acid, which would be needed to make silver nitrate. We would need a real good chemist to sort this out, but I think it's pretty safe to say nobody uses HVAC for homemade cs any more. The ion concentration is too low - maybe less than 3 nines. Everyone I know who was using abandoned it long ago. One company may still use a special HVAC generator where the electrode is above the surface of the water and forms an electric arc. Frank analyzed their product and posted the results on his web site. I recall it makes about 20ppm, but I don't think Frank measures any nitrogen byproducts. I have the patent around somewhere but can't locate it at the moment. One thing I remember clearly is the patent stated the operator had to continuously adjust the spacing of the rods, and that it was fairly difficult to see the small arc. This means there would be large variations in product quality as the operator became fatigued. This seems like such a waste of effort when we can make equal or better ion concentration with LVDC, with no risk of unwanted nitrogen products. I still have two flat silver electrodes Ole Bob gave me to do comparison tests with 12 ga wire. He had used them for HVAC production, and you can see etching along the water line where the high voltage caused some arcing. I was thinking of firing them up this weekend to see if there was any change in performance with my new conductance plotting process, but it looks like the ozone machine will burn up all the available time. Regards, Mike Monett Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators: http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine
Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate) I believe the above statement might not be strictly accurate, as homemade HVAC colloidal silver probably does contain silver nitrate, per my memory of posts from ole Bob. I think that is why he gave up on it after much work on it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody have a better memory than me? sol There are several ways of making High Voltage AC colloidal silver. One of the first invetigated was to suspend one of the electrodes very slightly above the surface of the water. When power was applied, the high electrical tension would draw a cone of water up from the surface to engulf the bottom of the suspended electrode. The problem Bob investigated was when the cone drops away (which happens when the sol continuity increases to a certain level), an arc would establish between the electrode and the water surface. He discovered that a compound would occur in the humid air that would contaminate the CS and make it acidic as I recall. I don't remember the compound. Think it was nitric oxide. Bob insisted that to avoid this reaction, a CO2 blanket above the water surface would suffice. Other methods that submerge both electrodes also avoid the problem. Chuck The early bird still has to eat worms! -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
