RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Neville Munn]

Sorry David, my pea brain wasn't thinking straight.  Yes, Yes, of course.  As 
colour becomes more prominent so the amount of silver content increases {ions 
lost to particle formation} thus the *ACTUAL* silver content will be higher, 
taking into consideration the ion and particle content combined, as that colour 
gets deeper regardless of what the meter reads.  The more colour, exponentially 
the more *inaccurate* those meters become.  The particles being unmeasurable 
will throw those meters out more as the colour intensifies because they only 
pick up on ion content.
It's OK, I believe I'm back on track .

N.

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:55:16 +0930
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Heat increasing ppm
> 
> Neville.
> 
> Colour indicates the presence of silver particles. (It doesn't matter  
> what the color is... it could be yellow, grey, white, black or any  
> other possible colour). Particles contain large amounts of silver but  
> they are not conductive so they are not detectable or measurable by  
> any TDS, PPM or EC meter.
> 
> Particle formation begins immediately that you begin making a batch  
> but increases significantly as you get closer to the saturation point  
> of the water - then the color becomes more obvious.
> 
> I'm sure you've already observed that you can run a generator all  
> week and produce a pile of fuzz but you'll still only see a ppm  
> reading of 5 or 6 on a TDS meter.
> 
> Regards
> David
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >

  

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm. (spectrophotometer)

[polo]

Marshall,

Interesting that you use a spectrophotometer. Can you tell me how you get 
reference cuvette solutions to graph what your CS sample is. To me, that would 
be the tricky part. You would 0 out with distilled water, but where do you get 
known CS concentrations to plot your readings?

thanks,

doug



  - Original Message - 
  From: Marshall 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:05 AM
  Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.


  You can get accurate measurements using a spectrophotometer.  That is what I 
use when I need accurate data.

  Marshall

RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Neville Munn]

Well I might just have to question that reasoning in the interest of possibly 
learning something.  If one knows the water is pure, so let's assume we all 
know what we are doing by way of EIS production, what difference does colour 
make in relation to meter readings?  You've still only got water with silver in 
it.  Doubling the TDS readout will give approximate TOTAL silver content the 
same as the EC meter readout 'as is' will give an approximate TOTAL silver 
content indication.
All meters work on conductivity hence they will all give an approximate TOTAL 
silver content reading.  Doesn't matter if the EC meter is calibrated 
supposedly 1:1, or if one simply doubles the reading on a TDS meter, it's still 
a reading of TOTAL silver content in the water.  I know meters pick up on the 
ionic component, but doing the rough calculations we are speaking about here 
they will all give an approximate silver content in total, not just ions.  This 
is why I use meters just to give me a 'ballpark' figure at shutoff point.

N.

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:21:05 +0930
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Heat increasing ppm
> 
> When using a PPM / TDS meter you have to multiply the reading by 2 to  
> 2.5 times to give you a rough ppm of the IONIC (dissolved) silver in  
> CS. In CLEAR CS this reading will be roughly equivalent to the a  
> TOTAL silver ppm in the CS. (i.e. the ionic silver plus the colloidal  
> silver). If the colloidal silver is NOT clear then any meter is a  
> pretty useless.
> 
> Alternatively use a meter that has a conductivity (EC) mode (like a  
> COM100) that measures out in microseimens. (uS). In that mode its  
> basically a 1 to 1 conversion so you don't have to double it like you  
> do with TDS/PPM mode. (But like a TDS meter its still only useful in  
> clear CS).
> 
> See Frank Key's www.silver-colloids.com site for comparisons of  
> electrical conductivity and Ag+ ppm
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > From: Lou Kraft 
> > Date: 25 September 2012 1:55:02 AM
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing  
> > on my ppm meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are  
> > being calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate  
> > Ag ppm assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS  
> > meter and the fact that there is a difference in conductivity  
> > between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply  
> > for Ag ppm.
> > This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for  
> > measuring ppm Ag. more accurately.
> > If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just  
> > seemed logical.
> > Thanks, Lou
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> 
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> Archives: 
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
> 
> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> 
> 
  

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Marshall]

You can get accurate measurements using a spectrophotometer.  That is 
what I use when I need accurate data.


Marshall

On 9/24/2012 12:25 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on 
my ppm meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being 
calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm 
assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the 
fact that there is a difference in conductivity between NaCl and Ag, 
how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply for Ag ppm.
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for 
measuring ppm Ag. more accurately.
If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just 
seemed logical.

Thanks, Lou

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall > wrote:


It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember
conductivity increases significantly with temperature, so if you
are measuring conductivity you are measuring a change in
conductivity with temperature.

Marshall


On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:

I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove)
the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to
16ppm when heated to near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp. 
Is this just the separation of large molecules to smaller when

stimualted by heat? Lou


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date:
09/22/12






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date: 09/23/12

RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Scotty]

I concur. I only use my meter for measuring my CS as it gets closer to the end 
of brewing time. Works well for me. Been doing this for the past 6 years with 
nothing but great results. I don't sell mine but give it away to friends and 
familyand IT works for all of us!
ScottyHave a great day!

 


--- On Mon, 9/24/12, Neville Munn  wrote:

From: Neville Munn 
Subject: RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Date: Monday, September 24, 2012, 5:47 PM





If I may, don't be overly concerned about measuring your solutions accurately, 
there is no meter which can be used in the home I know of that is calibrated 
for Ag, so the only 'way' you will accurately determine what you have is by 
laboratory analysis, and that's not necessary unless you are a commercial 
enterprise.
All meters used are inaccurate, but they are 'inaccurate' enough for home 
purposes.  I use meters to determine my shutoff point with each batch I 
produce, that gives me a *rough* idea of what I am repeatedly producing for 
each batch without wild ar*e guessing {I like to know there is *something* in 
that water besides water }.  
There's no need to be 100% accurate with the home produced LVDC product as it 
is a predominantly ionic silver solution, and that type solution doesn't hang 
around in the body long enough to cause any unwanted issues.  It doesn't have 
to be administered/applied/ingested/used in prescription measured amounts.
N.

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
From: loukra...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on my ppm 
meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being calibrated for 
NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm assessment of my finished 
product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the fact that there is a difference in 
conductivity between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually 
apply for Ag ppm.  
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for measuring ppm 
Ag. more accurately. If I am missing the point here with this just let me 
know.  It just seemed logical.Thanks, Lou


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall  wrote:



  

  
  
It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity
increases significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring
conductivity you are measuring a change in conductivity with
temperature.



Marshall



On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS
  (microwave or stove) the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm
  solution increased to 16ppm when heated to near boil and returns
  to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of large
  molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
  
  No virus found in
this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date:
09/22/12



  


  

RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Neville Munn]

If I may, don't be overly concerned about measuring your solutions accurately, 
there is no meter which can be used in the home I know of that is calibrated 
for Ag, so the only 'way' you will accurately determine what you have is by 
laboratory analysis, and that's not necessary unless you are a commercial 
enterprise.
All meters used are inaccurate, but they are 'inaccurate' enough for home 
purposes.  I use meters to determine my shutoff point with each batch I 
produce, that gives me a *rough* idea of what I am repeatedly producing for 
each batch without wild ar*e guessing {I like to know there is *something* in 
that water besides water }.  
There's no need to be 100% accurate with the home produced LVDC product as it 
is a predominantly ionic silver solution, and that type solution doesn't hang 
around in the body long enough to cause any unwanted issues.  It doesn't have 
to be administered/applied/ingested/used in prescription measured amounts.
N.

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
From: loukra...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on my ppm 
meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being calibrated for 
NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm assessment of my finished 
product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the fact that there is a difference in 
conductivity between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply 
for Ag ppm.  
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for measuring ppm 
Ag. more accurately. If I am missing the point here with this just let me know. 
 It just seemed logical.Thanks, Lou


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall  wrote:



  

  
  
It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity
increases significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring
conductivity you are measuring a change in conductivity with
temperature.



Marshall



On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS
  (microwave or stove) the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm
  solution increased to 16ppm when heated to near boil and returns
  to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of large
  molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
  
  No virus found in
this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date:
09/22/12



  


  

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on my ppm
meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being
calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm
assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the fact
that there is a difference in conductivity between NaCl and Ag, how does
the reading (10ppm) actually apply for Ag ppm.
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for measuring
ppm Ag. more accurately.
If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just seemed
logical.
Thanks, Lou

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall  wrote:

> **
> It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
> constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is evaporating.
> How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity increases
> significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring conductivity you
> are measuring a change in conductivity with temperature.
>
> Marshall
>
>
> On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
>
> I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
> increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
> near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
> large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
> --
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date: 09/22/12
>
>
>

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Marshall]

TDS conductivity meters have a far from perfect temperature 
calibration.   They are only of limited accuracy over a fairly limited 
temperature range.


Marshall

On 9/23/2012 11:31 AM, Lou Kraft wrote:

Forgot to mention, I use a simple TDS meter.
Item image

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Lou Kraft > wrote:


Excellent feedback Ode, I have noticed that there are different
meters (PWT, TDS and others)  and read that the typical meter
is claibrated for NaCl and not Ag.  What do you recommend so that
I can get a resonable consistance in my solutions.
All else being consistant i.e. Water purity, water aggitation and
14V 360mA power source.
Thanks, Lou

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Ode Coyote
mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net>> wrote:



Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by
electro-chemical ion exchanges.
Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.

Ode




At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:

I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or
stove) the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution
increased to 16ppm when heated to near boil and returns to
8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of large
molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou 






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Marshall]

It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a 
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is 
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity 
increases significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring 
conductivity you are measuring a change in conductivity with temperature.


Marshall

On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the 
ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when 
heated to near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just 
the separation of large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date: 09/22/12

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

Forgot to mention, I use a simple TDS meter.
[image: Item image]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Lou Kraft  wrote:

> Excellent feedback Ode, I have noticed that there are different meters
> (PWT, TDS and others)  and read that the typical meter is claibrated for
> NaCl and not Ag.  What do you recommend so that I can get a resonable
> consistance in my solutions.
> All else being consistant i.e. Water purity, water aggitation and 14V
> 360mA power source.
> Thanks, Lou
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
>> Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
>> To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by electro-chemical
>> ion exchanges.
>> Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.
>>
>> Ode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
>> increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
>> near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
>> large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

Excellent feedback Ode, I have noticed that there are different meters
(PWT, TDS and others)  and read that the typical meter is claibrated for
NaCl and not Ag.  What do you recommend so that I can get a resonable
consistance in my solutions.
All else being consistant i.e. Water purity, water aggitation and 14V 360mA
power source.
Thanks, Lou

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:

>
>
> Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
> Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
> To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by electro-chemical
> ion exchanges.
> Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.
>
> Ode
>
>
>
>
> At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:
>
> I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
> increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
> near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
> large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
>
>

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Ode Coyote]

Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by electro-chemical 
ion exchanges.

Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.

Ode



At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm 
increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated 
to near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the 
separation of large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou