RE: CS Cold and hard
CEOs and Politicians could be seen as the synthetics that we distilled out from our own ranks. But really They are people no different than any other. Try getting to know a few. People get out of touch on both ends of the circumstantial scales. Hate them, and you're hating the other end of yourself...the end you didn't use to become them. Ode Synthetics are NOT NOT NOT identical to natural herbs. As one example of this, just listen to the tv ads that warn of all the horrible side effects of these drugs. Or look up the side effects of these drugs and compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. I don't know where Ode gets his ideas. Recently Ode talked about ceo's, and he asked whether you (the consumer, I suppose) could do a ceo's job. But whether or not one could do a ceo's job is the totally wrong question. The question is: If you had an employee who was screwing up by the numbers and you fired him, would you supply him with a mega-million retirement package as a reward for his mis-deeds or insufficiency? Most of the people I know see Pharma and the FDA as power and money-grubbing gluttons who have their own interests at heart, not the well-being of the people. Hate-smoke propaganda is an attitude that lives between Ode's ears. Faith G. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1249 - Release Date: 1/29/2008
Re: CS Cold and hard
Mike D will have to tell you that. I barely know what decade it is. Time is irrelevant...till it gets dark. Ode At 05:48 PM 1/28/2008 -0500, you wrote: Ode; you have been a respected member of this list for many years. Care to tell us how many? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1249 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
On Jan 29, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Ode Coyote wrote: Mike D will have to tell you that. I barely know what decade it is. Time is irrelevant...till it gets dark. Ode I second that motion... must be getting old. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
There is plenty about the system that I do not like and that I think is totally unfair and worse. But I never said that I hate anyone. We're just talking at cross purposes here. I'm done. Faith G. - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: RE: CS Cold and hard CEOs and Politicians could be seen as the synthetics that we distilled out from our own ranks. But really They are people no different than any other. Try getting to know a few. People get out of touch on both ends of the circumstantial scales. Hate them, and you're hating the other end of yourself...the end you didn't use to become them. Ode -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
That statement makes no sense to me. Drugs are synthetic man made chemicals that always carry some level of toxicity that is not found in natural products and supplements. Risk factors are thousands fold on the side of drugs, including those sold over the counter. Saying you want MORE regulation, government restrictions, and control of health options and products. Unbelievable! ## Untrue. Most of the Pharmaceuticals are identical to the active ingredients in natural herbs, some not and more and more are being custom designed to do a specific job as the art of bio-chemistry develops. Many many of them were first derivatives and purified essences and many still are. There are entire farm industries that supply feed stock, vats and vats of fungi and algae. The issue is just not black and white as natural substances quite often have really nasty toxins along with the beneficial substances and part of THAT healing art is about processing the herbs to limit them. I don't think most people see Pharm and the FDA as evil. I think they mindlessly worship at their alter. They don't seek out alternatives because they have been taught that they really don't work by the massive marketing and propaganda networks. Blind trust, unexamined. ## Exactly, Believers Dut there's babies in the other bath water too. The rant is about anti-believers which are believers as well, but even less discriminating and even more prone to absorbing propaganda as fact. OK, go right ahead and finance the Devil in hopes you won't meet God. Nope. Don't do legal drugs, illegal drugs, or over the counter drugs. I do use Armour (natural) only because most of my thyroid was removed years ago. That was before I knew about natural medicine. I don't think either one of them cares about smoke and noise. The only thing that counts for anything at all, is what you DO. The whole point of these rantings is to point out that Blame doesn't control anything, but it does hold you helpless to take action. Blame is nothing less than *power of*, given away. Power is only given away when you allow yourself to be silenced by fear. ## Blowing hate smoke is an anti-silence that does the same thing, but gives one the impression that work is being done. It doesn't rely on any real information, just knee jerks and even worse propaganda that reasonable people try to ignore and eventually rally up the police as it heads for mindless riots. Constructive criticism is necessary to any democracy. When we are silenced by fear and fear tactics and propaganda we are no longer a democracy and we no longer can claim any liberty. ## I haven't seen anyone silenced... discounted, yes...because they have no foundation...no better idea that will hold water...only BAD bucket / shoot holes in it. Propaganda doesn't silence anyone, it distracts them. When both sides are having propaganda wars, the real problem falls out of sight. If no one can find the problem, there cannot be a solution. Nor, are we perhaps due any. Helplessness is actually inaction based on fear. Expressing power is actually speaking your own truth and valuing your own ideas, while working toward the general good with integrity.. ## There ya go, Integrity is the key. Where is it? It isn't in the street in the pockets of crowds yelling Kill the Devil Real knowledge is studious quiet hard work and that's what it takes to make any real changes. Studious hard work is what is being fought with mindless chaos that has little BUT propaganda behind itlike fighting fear with an even greater fear...fighting a perceived ignorance with an ever greater ignorance. It's easy to kick somebody over, but then what? You just get a new somebody to kick over that can't stand up as well. Alt med has it's scientists hard at work, but the rioters just serve to DISCOUNT their work giving an excuse to ignore the whole thing as poppycock of the ignorant masses It is , in fact, gaining ground in SPITE of the self defeating behaviors, but would do so faster if it were quieter so as not to give the opposition all that warning and ammunition to use as anti propaganda propaganda. All they have to do is point to a mob and ask...So, who is crazy? ...and all the meat boils right off the bones. We have proven ourselves right, beats You are just wrong but we have no clue about what right is...every time. Right now there is an Organic Revolution taking place. Sellers sell you anything you will buy, that's what sellers do and they don't care what it is. So now, as Organics are becoming a viable science that can compete in the market place, they are in fact soaking up market share and more and more hard working people are jumping on the bandwagon. The buyers dollar voted that one in just because the perception is that of a better idea with some meat on its bones..not just smoke and noise about GM foods. [some of which may well BE better, but we don't know
Re: CS Cold and hard
Ode, I don't agree that drugs and herbs are identical in active ingredients. Don't they take one or two ingredients from a herb and reproduce it chemically? So it's not the same as a whole herb. Herbs can work in ways synergistically. They may carry some protective elements as well. The body may not use them exactly the same way. Man made drugs always carry toxicity. Herbs do not. Yes, there are poisonous herbs, but I am not referring to them. And there may be some that have some type of toxin as an ingredient. In general the risks are vastly increased on the side of chemically produced synthetic drugs. As far as alternative people being less discriminating. When you blindly follow a treatment that you know is not working, then you do not have the light bulb switched on. You are not doing any thinking. You are relying on someone else to make the medical decisions for you. I have never seen a well person taking shopping bags full of drugs. I do see a lot of healthy and recovering people using supplements. Compare deaths and injury by pharma and supplements. In the case of supplements, no one is complaining except the drug companies. One of the things that I have found with alternative health is that it is a vastly more open system. It is much easier to find answers with an open mind than a closed one. I don't think alternative folks are rioting. Paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: CS Cold and hard That statement makes no sense to me. Drugs are synthetic man made chemicals that always carry some level of toxicity that is not found in natural products and supplements. Risk factors are thousands fold on the side of drugs, including those sold over the counter. Saying you want MORE regulation, government restrictions, and control of health options and products. Unbelievable! ## Untrue. Most of the Pharmaceuticals are identical to the active ingredients in natural herbs, some not and more and more are being custom designed to do a specific job as the art of bio-chemistry develops. Many many of them were first derivatives and purified essences and many still are. There are entire farm industries that supply feed stock, vats and vats of fungi and algae. The issue is just not black and white as natural substances quite often have really nasty toxins along with the beneficial substances and part of THAT healing art is about processing the herbs to limit them. I don't think most people see Pharm and the FDA as evil. I think they mindlessly worship at their alter. They don't seek out alternatives because they have been taught that they really don't work by the massive marketing and propaganda networks. Blind trust, unexamined. ## Exactly, Believers Dut there's babies in the other bath water too. The rant is about anti-believers which are believers as well, but even less discriminating and even more prone to absorbing propaganda as fact. OK, go right ahead and finance the Devil in hopes you won't meet God. Nope. Don't do legal drugs, illegal drugs, or over the counter drugs. I do use Armour (natural) only because most of my thyroid was removed years ago. That was before I knew about natural medicine. I don't think either one of them cares about smoke and noise. The only thing that counts for anything at all, is what you DO. The whole point of these rantings is to point out that Blame doesn't control anything, but it does hold you helpless to take action. Blame is nothing less than *power of*, given away. Power is only given away when you allow yourself to be silenced by fear. ## Blowing hate smoke is an anti-silence that does the same thing, but gives one the impression that work is being done. It doesn't rely on any real information, just knee jerks and even worse propaganda that reasonable people try to ignore and eventually rally up the police as it heads for mindless riots. Constructive criticism is necessary to any democracy. When we are silenced by fear and fear tactics and propaganda we are no longer a democracy and we no longer can claim any liberty. ## I haven't seen anyone silenced... discounted, yes...because they have no foundation...no better idea that will hold water...only BAD bucket / shoot holes in it. Propaganda doesn't silence anyone, it distracts them. When both sides are having propaganda wars, the real problem falls out of sight. If no one can find the problem, there cannot be a solution. Nor, are we perhaps due any. Helplessness is actually inaction based on fear. Expressing power is actually speaking your own truth and valuing your own ideas, while working toward the general good with integrity.. ## There ya go, Integrity is the key. Where is it? It isn't in the street in the pockets of crowds yelling Kill the Devil Real knowledge is studious quiet hard
Re: CS Cold and hard
Synthetics are NOT NOT NOT identical to natural herbs. As one example of this, just listen to the tv ads that warn of all the horrible side effects of these drugs. Or look up the side effects of these drugs and compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. I don't know where Ode gets his ideas. Recently Ode talked about ceo's, and he asked whether you (the consumer, I suppose) could do a ceo's job. But whether or not one could do a ceo's job is the totally wrong question. The question is: If you had an employee who was screwing up by the numbers and you fired him, would you supply him with a mega-million retirement package as a reward for his mis-deeds or insufficiency? Most of the people I know see Pharma and the FDA as power and money-grubbing gluttons who have their own interests at heart, not the well-being of the people. Hate-smoke propaganda is an attitude that lives between Ode's ears. Faith G. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS Cold and hard
...compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. If there are any??? You must be kidding. -Original Message- From: faith gagne [mailto:jitte...@gis.net] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:38 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Cold and hard Synthetics are NOT NOT NOT identical to natural herbs. As one example of this, just listen to the tv ads that warn of all the horrible side effects of these drugs. Or look up the side effects of these drugs and compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. I don't know where Ode gets his ideas. Recently Ode talked about ceo's, and he asked whether you (the consumer, I suppose) could do a ceo's job. But whether or not one could do a ceo's job is the totally wrong question. The question is: If you had an employee who was screwing up by the numbers and you fired him, would you supply him with a mega-million retirement package as a reward for his mis-deeds or insufficiency? Most of the people I know see Pharma and the FDA as power and money-grubbing gluttons who have their own interests at heart, not the well-being of the people. Hate-smoke propaganda is an attitude that lives between Ode's ears. Faith G. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
Oh sure. - Original Message - From: Terry slickpic...@cox.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:25 PM Subject: RE: CS Cold and hard ...compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. If there are any??? You must be kidding. -Original Message- From: faith gagne [mailto:jitte...@gis.net] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:38 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Cold and hard Synthetics are NOT NOT NOT identical to natural herbs. As one example of this, just listen to the tv ads that warn of all the horrible side effects of these drugs. Or look up the side effects of these drugs and compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. I don't know where Ode gets his ideas. Recently Ode talked about ceo's, and he asked whether you (the consumer, I suppose) could do a ceo's job. But whether or not one could do a ceo's job is the totally wrong question. The question is: If you had an employee who was screwing up by the numbers and you fired him, would you supply him with a mega-million retirement package as a reward for his mis-deeds or insufficiency? Most of the people I know see Pharma and the FDA as power and money-grubbing gluttons who have their own interests at heart, not the well-being of the people. Hate-smoke propaganda is an attitude that lives between Ode's ears. Faith G. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
Ode; you have been a respected member of this list for many years. Care to tell us how many? On Jan 28, 2008 3:25 PM, Terry slickpic...@cox.net wrote: ...compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. If there are any??? You must be kidding. -Original Message- From: faith gagne [mailto:jitte...@gis.net] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:38 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Cold and hard Synthetics are NOT NOT NOT identical to natural herbs. As one example of this, just listen to the tv ads that warn of all the horrible side effects of these drugs. Or look up the side effects of these drugs and compare them with the side effects (if there are any) of natural herbs. I don't know where Ode gets his ideas. Recently Ode talked about ceo's, and he asked whether you (the consumer, I suppose) could do a ceo's job. But whether or not one could do a ceo's job is the totally wrong question. The question is: If you had an employee who was screwing up by the numbers and you fired him, would you supply him with a mega-million retirement package as a reward for his mis-deeds or insufficiency? Most of the people I know see Pharma and the FDA as power and money-grubbing gluttons who have their own interests at heart, not the well-being of the people. Hate-smoke propaganda is an attitude that lives between Ode's ears. Faith G. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- Day Sutton day.sut...@gmail.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
- Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:36 AM Subject: Re: CS Cold and hard Devils Details aside: To make it fair, either everything should be regulated, or, nothing should be regulated...and let consequence handle the balance like it used to. That statement makes no sense to me. Drugs are synthetic man made chemicals that always carry some level of toxicity that is not found in natural products and supplements. Risk factors are thousands fold on the side of drugs, including those sold over the counter. Saying you want MORE regulation, government restrictions, and control of health options and products. Unbelievable! But people say the Pharm and the FDA is evil, yet constantly tip the scales in favor of them every time they buy the product. Last I looked, almost everyone was voting FOR them and complaining about their own choice. I don't think most people see Pharm and the FDA as evil. I think they mindlessly worship at their alter. They don't seek out alternatives because they have been taught that they really don't work by the massive marketing and propaganda networks. Blind trust, unexamined. OK, go right ahead and finance the Devil in hopes you won't meet God. Nope. Don't do legal drugs, illegal drugs, or over the counter drugs. I do use Armour (natural) only because most of my thyroid was removed years ago. That was before I knew about natural medicine. I don't think either one of them cares about smoke and noise. The only thing that counts for anything at all, is what you DO. The whole point of these rantings is to point out that Blame doesn't control anything, but it does hold you helpless to take action. Blame is nothing less than *power of*, given away. Power is only given away when you allow yourself to be silenced by fear. Constructive criticism is necessary to any democracy. When we are silenced by fear and fear tactics and propaganda we are no longer a democracy and we no longer can claim any liberty. Nor, are we perhaps due any. Helplessness is actually inaction based on fear. Expressing power is actually speaking your own truth and valuing your own ideas, while working toward the general good with integrity.. The question is: How much are you willing to pay who, to stay alive another year, after your time is up? Answer: A LOT...so long as someone else foots the bill and you get to yell when they don't like it. I don't plan on living forever. Just trying to stay healthier. Actually, I am paying a lot for other people's healthcare since I do not make much use of my insurance. Bottom line: Like it or not, YOU choose, who to pay, for what. No matter how far the buck gets passed, it's still your buck. Yep, and I want to keep it that way. You think you have no power! Is that a projection of your own feelings? I have said nothing to indicate that I feel powerless. I would be powerless if I allowed myself to be intimidated and believed your projections. But NONE of them can stay in your business without you. They CANNOT charge any more than you are willing to pay... NONE of them. Oh, but they can and do. I'm NOT buying. The rest of your comments appeared to be yet more projections of what you think. lt's about you Ode. It's what you are telling yourself. You talk about freedom and then say you WANT more regulation and restrictions placed on YOUR health options. Get a grip. You are describing your own thoughts and fears. What are you afraid of? It's almost like you are talking about out of body experience. Is that what you are referring to? Are you having one? Paula You can drop the whole enchilada like a hot potato, but you are afraid it'll roast your toes if you do and it's too hot to handle because you won't drop it out of the hands that heat it up with all that resistance to your own poweryour hands. Want freedom from the whole danged thing? Then just be willing to meet God at HIS appointed time. You don't know when that will be no matter HOW much you pay ANYONE to help you fool yourself. Never mind. He will catch up and He has all of eternity to watch you torture yourself and STILL go from this place of fear deferred and projected. This is a small place, way too small to contain forever... a TINY portion of your true mind. You want to stay because you are afraid to know how powerful you really are and won't even use a small part of it to gain freedom while here, for the same reason. But, you cannot stay longer without suffering and you cannot stay. A living slave to fear of the inevitable is better than what? You just don't remember what freedom is...and this is what that does, to the exact degree of the doing. In time, you will meet yourself outside of it. As you will. Ode At 03:20 PM 1/25/2008 -0500, you wrote: Ode, You must have a lot of free time on your hands. You didn't read Byron't articles
Re: CS Cold and hard
No government has ever made a thing. Every government lives off the efforts of the governed. Take their health care away and spread it out.. oh goodie!! My bottle of Aspirin just re-appeared and so did yours. We're all OK now! Take that CEOs bonus and give it to the workers. Nice six pack, Joe! Too bad the CEO quit and you don't have a job. Oh well, where there is beer there be hope. I hear there's an opening for CEO, can you do it? I sure as heck wouldn't want to, bonus or no bonus. Target ain't what I care to be. I'd be glad to send my six pack to Washington if they would create me a job. But, they don't create jobs, they might fill some,. but Peoplemostly CEOscreate jobs. Thank goodness I have that bottle of Aspirin! Where there is beer, there be hangovers. Those guys in Washington NEED good health care. They are, after all...the REAL sickos, right? And we aren't, so we don't. I hear beer is good for washington things out of my hair. Kapisht [The sound of one pull tab clapping] Health care insurance: A lot cheaper with a $5,000 deductable. Do you have $5,000 collecting interest or do you have a car loan sucking it down? I can take an old dead car and make it run perfectly for 100,000 miles for the price of 3 car payments or less. I learned how by trying and failing till I didn't...one back in the woods with no house, no garage and no power to run the tools. $150 and good transportation for 5 years. Even drove it to Alaska and back. Ode At 03:52 PM 1/26/2008 -0500, you wrote: Ode, Nobody stays alive another year after their time is up. There is not enough money in the world to do that for any of us. Yup, nobody gets a heart transplant and machines don't pump blood till one comes around. You are correct, there isn't enough money, but it gets done anyhow. And as far as paying the piper, we ALL foot the bill. Try figuring out what you really pay in taxes every year to your local, state and federal governments, above and beyond income and property taxes. It'll take you a year and I bet you can't do it. And your government reps get FAR better health care than you do, and they don't pay for it either. You do. Faith G. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: 1/26/2008
Re: CS Cold and hard
Devils Details aside: To make it fair, either everything should be regulated, or, nothing should be regulated...and let consequence handle the balance like it used to. But people say the Pharm and the FDA is evil, yet constantly tip the scales in favor of them every time they buy the product. Last I looked, almost everyone was voting FOR them and complaining about their own choice. OK, go right ahead and finance the Devil in hopes you won't meet God. I don't think either one of them cares about smoke and noise. The only thing that counts for anything at all, is what you DO. The whole point of these rantings is to point out that Blame doesn't control anything, but it does hold you helpless to take action. Blame is nothing less than *power of*, given away. The question is: How much are you willing to pay who, to stay alive another year, after your time is up? Answer: A LOT...so long as someone else foots the bill and you get to yell when they don't like it. Bottom line: Like it or not, YOU choose, who to pay, for what. No matter how far the buck gets passed, it's still your buck. You think you have no power! But NONE of them can stay in your business without you. They CANNOT charge any more than you are willing to pay... NONE of them. You can drop the whole enchilada like a hot potato, but you are afraid it'll roast your toes if you do and it's too hot to handle because you won't drop it out of the hands that heat it up with all that resistance to your own poweryour hands. Want freedom from the whole danged thing? Then just be willing to meet God at HIS appointed time. You don't know when that will be no matter HOW much you pay ANYONE to help you fool yourself. Never mind. He will catch up and He has all of eternity to watch you torture yourself and STILL go from this place of fear deferred and projected. This is a small place, way too small to contain forever... a TINY portion of your true mind. You want to stay because you are afraid to know how powerful you really are and won't even use a small part of it to gain freedom while here, for the same reason. But, you cannot stay longer without suffering and you cannot stay. A living slave to fear of the inevitable is better than what? You just don't remember what freedom is...and this is what that does, to the exact degree of the doing. In time, you will meet yourself outside of it. As you will. Ode At 03:20 PM 1/25/2008 -0500, you wrote: Ode, You must have a lot of free time on your hands. You didn't read Byron't articles did you? You have a tendancy to generalize. How things are supposed to operate and how they do is 2 different things. The drug companies love paying the FDA fees. They wouldn't have it any other way. Wasn't it the drug companies themselves that asked for it? Said it would help them speed drugs to the market. You kind of sound like you think that supplements should be regulated? Is that your position? Paula -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1243 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
Ode, Nobody stays alive another year after their time is up. There is not enough money in the world to do that for any of us. And as far as paying the piper, we ALL foot the bill. Try figuring out what you really pay in taxes every year to your local, state and federal governments, above and beyond income and property taxes. It'll take you a year and I bet you can't do it. And your government reps get FAR better health care than you do, and they don't pay for it either. You do. Faith G. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Cold and hard
If you don't know how it works, saying it's not working right is blowing smoke. The drug companies don't control the FDA, they manipulate it to an advantage when they believe they can get away with it. The FDA does have enough of a budget to survive on it's own. It just can't do the work it has come to have without the 'Pharma doing the testing of it's own products and telling the FDA what it found. That leaves quite a bit of leeway to push something through. They don't pay the FDA. They are indeed in bed with each other like: If your wife says she's not sleeping around and you can't prove she is, who do you believe?.until she has that red headed baby. Concerning the other end of the story, the FDA goes out of it's way to sound like Daddy but phrases things in a very ambiguous manner leaving leeway there too. ie: Not proven safe and effective does NOT mean Proven unsafe and ineffective. The FDA doesn't prohibit the sale of unproven substances, it says that you can't SAY they are proven unless they have been proven to a set of standards that match the stated intent of the substance. Therefore, if it's being sold as a drug, it has to be tested to the same expensive standards as the drugs the Pharm makes and tests. BUT, if it's NOT being sold as a drug and there is no harm resulting from the sales, there are no standards that have to be met other than production facility cleanliness that any restaurant must comply to. The FDAs function in those cases is damage control. Thus, people still sell CS even though it hasn't been tested to drug standards and so long as not too many people have a problem and drug claims aren't made, they look the other way. If people start having problems with something, they un-shelve it until the problem is figured out. The Tryptophan thing is an example. The people buying and packaging it weren't required to keep track of batches and mixes, so when a bad run showed up and people started dying...there was no way to tell where it went. There are no standards in supplements. So the FDA un-shelved ALL of it until all new and safe Tryptophan replaced it. Had re-sellers had better control of their records, that need not have happened, proving that the FDA ISN'T meddling to any great degree in the supplements industry. BUT, incidents of default like that leads the FDA to believe that maybe it should. The WTO may have approved the CODEX and there are some really wild hucksters in the world that makes such a move a reasonable one. The WTO has no jurisdiction inside a country. It can only keep an eye on trading BETWEEN countries. Had there been CODEX during the Tryptophan incident, the Japanese giant that produced tons of deadly turkey essence may have been stopped before it hit the shelves and Tryptophan would never have been taken off the market in the USA. CODEX isn't about prohibition, it's about establishing *standards* where there ARE none but damage control, too late. Go control them, but not me that's doing the same thing? Blind haters and blamers think that just because the Pharm can sneak a product through now and then, that the other side can do no harm and needs zero looking after. That's NOT true. To be reasonable and balanced, they are really saying that the Pharm need not comply to any standards either and the FDA, as crazy as being in bed is, such as THAT isshould be completely abolished. Well, that would bring the price of *drugs* down quite a bit..but ...they'd be even more dangerous than they are as there are, at least, some controls and standards being applied beyond law suites too late. Ideally, the people should be paying for the testing of the drugs they use and in a sideways manner, they are. But it's very expensive and making it public access would result in every Tom, Dick and Harry demanding approval testing for every nut case idea that occurs to them. Look at it that way and the supplement industry has a clear advantage in the market and almost no culpability. It can do no wrong in the absence of an established right and it's profit margin may be even larger than the Pharmas because it doesn't have to pay for any testing at all. It's not a wonder that big drugs wants into that thieves market. It's a market that CAN'T be controlled to any great degree because anyone can grow an herb and stopping packagers won't stop the practice. Go too far with it and it'll just go underground onto the black market where there are ZERO standards with GANGS of profiteers supplying inevitable demand. Where there is a demand, there SHALT BE a supply. Laws don't stop it. If that supply is made illegal, there are no standards possible at all...and... you can forget about suing anyone too. Call a spade, a shovel and all is politically correct. The cold hard truth: If people were willing to die for their beliefs and bear the cost thereof, no external standards or controls would be necessary.
Re: CS Cold and hard
Ode, You must have a lot of free time on your hands. You didn't read Byron't articles did you? You have a tendancy to generalize. How things are supposed to operate and how they do is 2 different things. The drug companies love paying the FDA fees. They wouldn't have it any other way. Wasn't it the drug companies themselves that asked for it? Said it would help them speed drugs to the market. You kind of sound like you think that supplements should be regulated? Is that your position? Paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: Re: CS Cold and hard If you don't know how it works, saying it's not working right is blowing smoke. The drug companies don't control the FDA, they manipulate it to an advantage when they believe they can get away with it. The FDA does have enough of a budget to survive on it's own. It just can't do the work it has come to have without the 'Pharma doing the testing of it's own products and telling the FDA what it found. That leaves quite a bit of leeway to push something through. They don't pay the FDA. They are indeed in bed with each other like: If your wife says she's not sleeping around and you can't prove she is, who do you believe?.until she has that red headed baby. Concerning the other end of the story, the FDA goes out of it's way to sound like Daddy but phrases things in a very ambiguous manner leaving leeway there too. ie: Not proven safe and effective does NOT mean Proven unsafe and ineffective. The FDA doesn't prohibit the sale of unproven substances, it says that you can't SAY they are proven unless they have been proven to a set of standards that match the stated intent of the substance. Therefore, if it's being sold as a drug, it has to be tested to the same expensive standards as the drugs the Pharm makes and tests. BUT, if it's NOT being sold as a drug and there is no harm resulting from the sales, there are no standards that have to be met other than production facility cleanliness that any restaurant must comply to. The FDAs function in those cases is damage control. Thus, people still sell CS even though it hasn't been tested to drug standards and so long as not too many people have a problem and drug claims aren't made, they look the other way. If people start having problems with something, they un-shelve it until the problem is figured out. The Tryptophan thing is an example. The people buying and packaging it weren't required to keep track of batches and mixes, so when a bad run showed up and people started dying...there was no way to tell where it went. There are no standards in supplements. So the FDA un-shelved ALL of it until all new and safe Tryptophan replaced it. Had re-sellers had better control of their records, that need not have happened, proving that the FDA ISN'T meddling to any great degree in the supplements industry. BUT, incidents of default like that leads the FDA to believe that maybe it should. The WTO may have approved the CODEX and there are some really wild hucksters in the world that makes such a move a reasonable one. The WTO has no jurisdiction inside a country. It can only keep an eye on trading BETWEEN countries. Had there been CODEX during the Tryptophan incident, the Japanese giant that produced tons of deadly turkey essence may have been stopped before it hit the shelves and Tryptophan would never have been taken off the market in the USA. CODEX isn't about prohibition, it's about establishing *standards* where there ARE none but damage control, too late. Go control them, but not me that's doing the same thing? Blind haters and blamers think that just because the Pharm can sneak a product through now and then, that the other side can do no harm and needs zero looking after. That's NOT true. To be reasonable and balanced, they are really saying that the Pharm need not comply to any standards either and the FDA, as crazy as being in bed is, such as THAT isshould be completely abolished. Well, that would bring the price of *drugs* down quite a bit..but ...they'd be even more dangerous than they are as there are, at least, some controls and standards being applied beyond law suites too late. Ideally, the people should be paying for the testing of the drugs they use and in a sideways manner, they are. But it's very expensive and making it public access would result in every Tom, Dick and Harry demanding approval testing for every nut case idea that occurs to them. Look at it that way and the supplement industry has a clear advantage in the market and almost no culpability. It can do no wrong in the absence of an established right and it's profit margin may be even larger than the Pharmas because it doesn't have to pay for any testing at all. It's not a wonder that big drugs wants into that thieves market. It's a market
