Re: Photoshop in Linux WAS [SLUG] Newbie -when is next slug meet?

2004-11-30 Thread James Gregory
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:40:45PM +1100, Craige McWhirter wrote:
 The difference in configurations and layouts between
 95/98/xp/NT/2000/2003 is incredibly bloody annoying. If I had one
 constructive thing to say to Microsoft it would be *STOP MOVING SHIT!*
 especially as I'm dealing with all those listed OS's :)

Stuff moves around between versions on Linux systems as well. Upgrading
Postgresql is an example that leaps to mind. Why do you find the UI
revisions in the Windows operating systems more frustrating?

As for myself, my impressions have been that I have a lot of difficulty
getting my work done on Windows machines, but I have a lot of trouble
explaining to others how to do things on Linux machines. I've got gripes
about particular issues on both systems, but I might rant about that on
slug-chat rather than wasting everyone's time here.

James.

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Re: Photoshop in Linux WAS [SLUG] Newbie -when is next slug meet?

2004-11-30 Thread Craige McWhirter
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 19:05 +1100, James Gregory wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:40:45PM +1100, Craige McWhirter wrote:
  The difference in configurations and layouts between
  95/98/xp/NT/2000/2003 is incredibly bloody annoying. If I had one
  constructive thing to say to Microsoft it would be *STOP MOVING SHIT!*
  especially as I'm dealing with all those listed OS's :)
 
 Stuff moves around between versions on Linux systems as well. Upgrading
 Postgresql is an example that leaps to mind. Why do you find the UI
 revisions in the Windows operating systems more frustrating?

Not in Debian it didn't. In Debian I can't think of any time my menus or
config files have moved. They *may* have, I've just either never
encountered it or was never frustrated by it. Can anyone confirm Debian
config files or menu movements between versions?

-- 

Australian people have been told things only to be disappointed after 
an election ... I want to change that. I want to change it because I 
think it is important to the future of our country that we rebuild a 
sense of trust and confidence in words given and commitments made by 
our political leaders.
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Re: Photoshop in Linux WAS [SLUG] Newbie -when is next slug meet?

2004-11-30 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:03:35PM +1100, David wrote:
 On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Craige McWhirter wrote:
  On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 20:48 +1100, Rod Butcher wrote:
   Final straw was trying to set transparent background. I was presented
   with techno-gobbledegook.
 
  File - New - Fill Type: Transparent
 
  or in an existing image:
 
  Layer - New Layer - Layer Fill Type: Transparent
 
 I spent 10 years learning photoshop, and it took me an annoying one month
 to get the hang of GIMP. I kept expecting it to work EXACTLY the same as
 photoshop.
 
 This thread made me wonder: If people were brought up on Gnu/Linux the way
 most people are brought up on Windows, would they then find linux really
 easy, and Windows counter-intuitive and confusing? Is it simply what you
 learn first that defines what you find easy?

I vote a resounding 'yes' on that one.  Mac people say that Windows sucks,
Windows people say Macs and Linux sucks, and I say Windows is a PITA and Mac
OS X is not easy to use.  Whatever people seem to have a chunk of experience
with first more or less defines what they think is the best interface.

- Matt

-- 
With enough people around there's a probability ~=1 that one of them is an
MCSE and will give you the wrong answer to your problem.
-- Toni Lassila, in the Monastery


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[SLUG] Re: OS familiarity WAS Photoshop in Linux

2004-11-30 Thread Phil Scarratt
Matthew Palmer wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:03:35PM +1100, David wrote:
This thread made me wonder: If people were brought up on Gnu/Linux the way
most people are brought up on Windows, would they then find linux really
easy, and Windows counter-intuitive and confusing? Is it simply what you
learn first that defines what you find easy?

I vote a resounding 'yes' on that one.  Mac people say that Windows sucks,
Windows people say Macs and Linux sucks, and I say Windows is a PITA and Mac
OS X is not easy to use.  Whatever people seem to have a chunk of experience
with first more or less defines what they think is the best interface.
- Matt


Which is why it makes business sense for Microsoft to offer ridiculously 
large educational discounts.get them young and they'll want to stay 
that way.

Fil
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Re: Photoshop in Linux WAS [SLUG] Newbie -when is next slug meet?

2004-11-30 Thread Dave Airlie
 
  This thread made me wonder: If people were brought up on Gnu/Linux the way
  most people are brought up on Windows, would they then find linux really
  easy, and Windows counter-intuitive and confusing? Is it simply what you
  learn first that defines what you find easy?

well it's a fairly basic reaction at work,

the first time you learn how to do something you don't know how to do
already then it is interesting, now switching to another app and trying to
do the same things just doesn't seem like the same sort of learning as you
already know how to do that so it must be app that is getting in your
way... so you blame the app... I've also heard that gimp becomes a lot
more obvious if you use a touchpad/stylus thing...

Dave.


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pam_smb / Linux DECstation / Linux VAX / ILUG person

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[SLUG] Re: OS familiarity WAS Photoshop in Linux

2004-11-30 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 09:05:48PM +1100, Phil Scarratt wrote:
 Which is why it makes business sense for Microsoft to offer ridiculously 
 large educational discounts.get them young and they'll want to stay 
 that way.

Precisionly.  Microsoft's biggest threat to world domination in the old
days was that most schools were Churches of Mac.

Now, of course, we have Linux.

- Matt

-- 
A critic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge
the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased -- he hates
all creative people equally.


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Re: Photoshop in Linux WAS [SLUG] Newbie -when is next slug meet?

2004-11-30 Thread Rod Butcher
 Whatever people seem to have a chunk of experience
 with first more or less defines what they think is the best interface.
I agree, hadn't thought of that.. I cut my teeth on Waterloo script on
mainframes, and struggled to adjust to M$Word's graphical wysywig idea -
I still feel comfortable with markup languages like HTML.
But meanwhile back at the farm, my .png image's background remains
resolutely opaque. It consists of black text on white bg.  As instructed
I selected layer, new layer, transparent. No dice. This can't be the
full story. How/where do I tell it that listen, Gimp, whenever you see
white space in this here image, I want it to be transparent. ? From
memory, in PS I specified an index value for transparency.
cheers
Rod 

On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:22 +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:03:35PM +1100, David wrote:
  On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Craige McWhirter wrote:
   On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 20:48 +1100, Rod Butcher wrote:
Final straw was trying to set transparent background. I was presented
with techno-gobbledegook.
  
   File - New - Fill Type: Transparent
  
   or in an existing image:
  
   Layer - New Layer - Layer Fill Type: Transparent
  
  I spent 10 years learning photoshop, and it took me an annoying one month
  to get the hang of GIMP. I kept expecting it to work EXACTLY the same as
  photoshop.
  
  This thread made me wonder: If people were brought up on Gnu/Linux the way
  most people are brought up on Windows, would they then find linux really
  easy, and Windows counter-intuitive and confusing? Is it simply what you
  learn first that defines what you find easy?
 
 I vote a resounding 'yes' on that one.  Mac people say that Windows sucks,
 Windows people say Macs and Linux sucks, and I say Windows is a PITA and Mac
 OS X is not easy to use.  Whatever people seem to have a chunk of experience
 with first more or less defines what they think is the best interface.
 
 - Matt
 
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Re: [SLUG] /etc/module question

2004-11-30 Thread Russell Davie

From:
Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your best bet is to use hotplug, which automatically instantiates drivers
for the attached devices at startup. It doesn't change /etc/modules, it just
re-detects at every startup. (Ubuntu uses hotplug and udev by default, btw.)
Ok, I have loaded hotplug and and rebooted,
but still the network didn't come up until I did a manual 
/etc/init.d/networking restart

Hotplug correctly found the network card and loaded all the modules, 
including one that wouldn't manually load - nice.

 lsmod | grep 8139
8139too20864  0
8139cp 16128  0
mii 4032  2 8139too,8139cp
There is no link to /etc/init.d/networking in /etc/rc5.d, I assume as 
the network came up previously then it not needed and that something 
else is not right.

Is the order of hotplug in /etc/rc5.d incorrect? (unlikely)
 or is there something else missing? (more likely...)
TIA
Russell
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Re: Photoshop in Linux WAS [SLUG] Newbie -when is next slug meet?

2004-11-30 Thread James Gregory
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 11:26:23PM +1100, Rod Butcher wrote:
  Whatever people seem to have a chunk of experience
  with first more or less defines what they think is the best interface.
 I agree, hadn't thought of that.. I cut my teeth on Waterloo script on
 mainframes, and struggled to adjust to M$Word's graphical wysywig idea -
 I still feel comfortable with markup languages like HTML.
 But meanwhile back at the farm, my .png image's background remains
 resolutely opaque. It consists of black text on white bg.  As instructed
 I selected layer, new layer, transparent. No dice. This can't be the
 full story. How/where do I tell it that listen, Gimp, whenever you see
 white space in this here image, I want it to be transparent. ? From
 memory, in PS I specified an index value for transparency.

In general PNG doesn't work that way. It can do indexed transparency,
but the advantage of using it comes in the fact that it has an alpha
layer. The best way to use it is as someone else here pointed out: Make
a new image with a transparent background and just don't put stuff where
you want it transparent.

IE has some issues displaying PNGs with alpha layers, but there are
workarounds. Can we see some of these images with the resolutely opaque
backgrounds?

James.

-- 
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insurmountable opportunity.
 - http://www.surfare.net/~toolman/temp/diagram.html
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[SLUG] installing java on ubintu / debian

2004-11-30 Thread Ken Foskey
This is a simple set of instructions to install Java sdk properly on
debian (including ubuntu)

  Java 1.5
 
 Download the Java SDK (Debian Package 59MB)
 http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/projects/misc/sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0_i386.deb
 
 Install the SDK with dpkg -i sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0_i386.deb
 
 It will complain of unresolved dependencies, so apt-get install
 sun-j2sdk1.5debian , make sure you have contrib in your sources.list. 

-- 
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OpenOffice.org Programmer

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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Marek Wawrzyczny
Hi all again,

I have to resurrect this one since I have humble pie to swallow on this one... 
St George Internet banking works on Firefox on Linux (without any user agent 
fixes mind you). How silly did I feel when I realized that recently I lost 
all my Linux settings, including Firefox's popup blocking settings. Doh! 


Humbly,

Marek Wawrzyczny 

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:54, Marek Wawrzyczny wrote:
 Hi all,

 I just signed up to this ML after doing a search on Linux internet banking
 support in Australia.

 I am currently with St George and like in the post dated 23 Oct 2004 I
 cannot use it with Linux.

...

 Cheers,

 Marek Wawrzyczny
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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Vlad
Marek,

Don't admit the bank was right

vlad


On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:29:10 +1100, Marek Wawrzyczny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all again,
 
 I have to resurrect this one since I have humble pie to swallow on this one...
 St George Internet banking works on Firefox on Linux (without any user agent
 fixes mind you). How silly did I feel when I realized that recently I lost
 all my Linux settings, including Firefox's popup blocking settings. Doh!
 
 Humbly,
 
 Marek Wawrzyczny
 
 On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:54, Marek Wawrzyczny wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I just signed up to this ML after doing a search on Linux internet banking
  support in Australia.
 
  I am currently with St George and like in the post dated 23 Oct 2004 I
  cannot use it with Linux.
 
 ...
 
  Cheers,
 
  Marek Wawrzyczny
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Re: [SLUG] installing java on ubintu / debian

2004-11-30 Thread Simon Wong
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 07:36, Ken Foskey wrote:
 This is a simple set of instructions to install Java sdk properly on
 debian (including ubuntu)
 
   Java 1.5
  
  Download the Java SDK (Debian Package 59MB)
  http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/projects/misc/sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0_i386.deb
  
  Install the SDK with dpkg -i sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0_i386.deb
  
  It will complain of unresolved dependencies, so apt-get install
  sun-j2sdk1.5debian , make sure you have contrib in your sources.list. 

(Some more explanation)

This using the new java-package in Debian Unstable
(http://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/java-package) which creates
debs from Sun's .bin versions of the JDKs.

If you don't want to download a deb from an unknown/untrusted source you
can download the bin from Sun's Java site and use java-package to create
the deb.

Note: With 1.5 you will get errors if you try and build it using
fakeroot.  I believe it is installable just with some missing parts
(java web start files ?).

Enjoy!


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Wongy.org

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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Mary Gardiner
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Marek Wawrzyczny wrote:
 I have to resurrect this one since I have humble pie to swallow on
 this one...  St George Internet banking works on Firefox on Linux
 (without any user agent fixes mind you). How silly did I feel when I
 realized that recently I lost all my Linux settings, including
 Firefox's popup blocking settings. Doh! 

It only seems to work for me if I turn off *all* popup blocking, not
just if I add stgeorge.com.au to the allowed sites list. Anyone got
ideas on that one?

-Mary
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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Marek Wawrzyczny
Hmm, I do have popup blocking enabled... stgeorge.com.au is 'Allowed'. You 
probably know this already but make sure it's not www.stgeorge.com.au as the 
popup page comes from ibank.steorge.com.au (or something similar).

I'm running Firefox 1.0 release 3.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:19, Mary Gardiner wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Marek Wawrzyczny wrote:
  I have to resurrect this one since I have humble pie to swallow on
  this one...  St George Internet banking works on Firefox on Linux
  (without any user agent fixes mind you). How silly did I feel when I
  realized that recently I lost all my Linux settings, including
  Firefox's popup blocking settings. Doh!

 It only seems to work for me if I turn off *all* popup blocking, not
 just if I add stgeorge.com.au to the allowed sites list. Anyone got
 ideas on that one?

 -Mary
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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Mary Gardiner
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Mary Gardiner wrote:
 It only seems to work for me if I turn off *all* popup blocking, not
 just if I add stgeorge.com.au to the allowed sites list. Anyone got
 ideas on that one?

Actually scratch that, it loads up
https://ibank.stgeorge.com.au/html/redirect.asp for me as a blank page
no matter what I do (popup blocking OFF). The login screen works on
Epiphany though, I just need to get Epiphany to use the Java plugin I
guess.

-Mary
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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Marek Wawrzyczny
Actually I did have a bit of trouble getting Java to work with Firefox, 
eventually I ended up compiling my own Java JDK, and you then need to simlink 
the correct Java plugin into the Firefox plugin folder... there are 
directions somewhere on the web, a search on Google should find them.

Not exactly the most user friendly install. Sun should harry up and get it's 
act together.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:24, Mary Gardiner wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Mary Gardiner wrote:
  It only seems to work for me if I turn off *all* popup blocking, not
  just if I add stgeorge.com.au to the allowed sites list. Anyone got
  ideas on that one?

 Actually scratch that, it loads up
 https://ibank.stgeorge.com.au/html/redirect.asp for me as a blank page
 no matter what I do (popup blocking OFF). The login screen works on
 Epiphany though, I just need to get Epiphany to use the Java plugin I
 guess.

 -Mary
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[SLUG] Gimp outcome

2004-11-30 Thread Rod Butcher
Thanks to all the folks who discussed the issues of Gimp  tried to help
me... unfortunately I ran out of time,  ended up using kolourpaint to
creat the transparent images. It has a more function-oriented ui and I
found it a doddle. This was a case where I need a product to do
something occasionally but not often enough to justify learning much
about it - I need to be able to fire it up, do the job and get on with
other stuff. IMHO a lot of desktop work is like this - the infrequency
of use doesn't justify any learning curve, it has to be usable right
from fireup.
cheers
Rod
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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Mary Gardiner
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Marek Wawrzyczny wrote:
 Actually I did have a bit of trouble getting Java to work with Firefox, 
 eventually I ended up compiling my own Java JDK, and you then need to simlink 
 the correct Java plugin into the Firefox plugin folder... there are 
 directions somewhere on the web, a search on Google should find them.

Thanks, Java works under Firefox, I need to figure out where to make the
symlink for Epiphany.

-Mary
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Re: [SLUG] St George internet banking on linux

2004-11-30 Thread Marek Wawrzyczny
That's just the thing... some java applets also worked for me before, but 
not all. If I remember correctly, there is some sort of issue with Mozilla 
based browsers, Java and Motif. If I remember correctly, Motif and the Java 
plugin have to be compiled using the same gcc and Mozilla browsers, including 
Firefox use the Motif library.
I don't know if this is related to St George in particular, I was also at the 
time trying to solve another Java problem I was having (with Eclipse). The 
fact that it works now may be a by product of everything else I have done.

Unfortunately I have a very non-standard setup on my very non-standard laptop.

In any case, just symlinking the java plugin even in Epiphany may not be 
enough, you may have to recompile it.

Marek Wawrzyczny

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:52, Mary Gardiner wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Marek Wawrzyczny wrote:
  Actually I did have a bit of trouble getting Java to work with Firefox,
  eventually I ended up compiling my own Java JDK, and you then need to
  simlink the correct Java plugin into the Firefox plugin folder... there
  are directions somewhere on the web, a search on Google should find them.

 Thanks, Java works under Firefox, I need to figure out where to make the
 symlink for Epiphany.

 -Mary
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[SLUG] Is there a way to tandem on to a SSH connection?

2004-11-30 Thread Paul Ford
I am new to Linux and would like to know if I could take over another users ssh 
connection as a root user?
My Linux box is running RedHat 7.2.1



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(il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-' 

Network Support
Paul Ford
Ph 87485296
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Re: [SLUG] Is there a way to tandem on to a SSH connection?

2004-11-30 Thread Jan Schmidt
quote who=Paul Ford
 I am new to Linux and would like to know if I could take over another users 
 ssh connection as a root user?
 My Linux box is running RedHat 7.2.1
 

ttysnoop should allow you to join the users login session.

J.
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Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas
  -- Arnold 'Ace' Rimmer, Red Dwarf
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Re: [SLUG] Is there a way to tandem on to a SSH connection?

2004-11-30 Thread Jamie Wilkinson
This one time, at band camp, Paul Ford wrote:
I am new to Linux and would like to know if I could take over another users 
ssh connection as a root user?

You can't take over the ssh session, but you can go tandem on a virtual
terminal using a program called 'screen'.

If your other user starts screen, then ssh, you can join their screen
session and see what they see, and type for them.

screen -x will join an already attached session.

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Re: [SLUG] Linux software for finding broken links

2004-11-30 Thread Taryn East

W3C have one here:
http://validator.w3.org/checklink

simple, easy and good reputation.

Cheers,
Taryn

* Peter Rundle [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:
 Sluggers,
 
 As per the subject, looking for recommendations for a simple tool to run 
 on a Linux desktop which will scan a web site and report broken links.
 
 Cheers
 
 P.
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Re: [SLUG] talks last night

2004-11-30 Thread Taryn East
* Jan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:
 Sorry, I didn't think to turn the camera on until half way through, so I
 missed the talks. We've got a recording of Luke's awesome Accessibility
 talk though.

erm, silly question - where can they all be found? the only ones listed
on:
http://www.slug.org.au/talks/

Are one from January and another from April - am I looking in the wrong
place?

Cheers,
Taryn

 
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Re: [SLUG] talks last night

2004-11-30 Thread Jan Schmidt
quote who=Taryn East
 * Jan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:
  Sorry, I didn't think to turn the camera on until half way through, so I
  missed the talks. We've got a recording of Luke's awesome Accessibility
  talk though.
 
 erm, silly question - where can they all be found? the only ones listed
 on:
 http://www.slug.org.au/talks/
 
 Are one from January and another from April - am I looking in the wrong
 place?

Not a silly question at all - that's the right place to find talks. The
problem is converting them takes ages, especially since the audio is coming
out quite dodgy on a lot of our recordings. As a consequence, the encoded
versions get converted and distributed more or less according to the amount
of demand I receive.

J.
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Jan Schmidt  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Talks page (Re: [SLUG] talks last night)

2004-11-30 Thread Mary Gardiner
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004, Jan Schmidt wrote:
 Not a silly question at all - that's the right place to find talks. The
 problem is converting them takes ages, especially since the audio is coming
 out quite dodgy on a lot of our recordings. As a consequence, the encoded
 versions get converted and distributed more or less according to the amount
 of demand I receive.

Could the talks page be updated to have a fuller list of talks, perhaps
with bold for the ones that were recorded and the text if a recorded
talk is not available on this page, email Jan Schmidt to request a copy
of the recording?

-Mary
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[SLUG] Re: Internet Service Provider

2004-11-30 Thread Kirti Pankhania
Could anyone recommend a good service provider for linux server hosting?

Ken

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[SLUG] Dell Notebook BIOS update

2004-11-30 Thread Kirti Pankhania
How does one go about doing a BIOS update on a Dell 5000 Inspiron ? (manuf.
2000, I think)

Ken

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