RE: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[高远]

http://www.w3.org/Amaya/screenshots/Overview.html

Amaya looks much prettier than years ago. And it's from W3C.
 
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:44:15 +1000
> From: gnu...@aromagardens.com.au
> To: slug@slug.org.au
> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?
> 
> Kyle wrote:
> > what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?
> 
> Bluefish or Quanta Plus would be what I'd recommend if a Dreamweaver
> style coding-helper is required. But Junior will really learn a lot
> more about standards, web development & clean code if he just uses gedit
> and follows the W3C schools pages.
> hth
> Meryl
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Steven Tucker]

Kyle wrote:

Hi Folks,

what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?Junior wants to 
start building his own website, so he's going to require some assistance.


What do folks use pls?


+1 for Kompozer.

I was in a web design class at uni where we were allowed to use 
dreamweaver or code by hand.
I code by hand, but the others in my group wanted to use dreamweaver 
rather than learn anything.
After one look at what dreamweaver did to my html I *MADE* them all 
switch to Kompozer.


The result? .

I was happy cause it didn't mangle my code, and they loved the wysiwyg, 
so much that they all now prefer kompozer over dreamweaver.


Yep, Kompozer fits the billl.

Tuxta
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Jeff Waugh]

> Using WordPress as an example: two years ago, they were basically
> addslashes()'ing strings before concatenating them with a MySQL query.
> 
> Now, they've since completely moved to a printf-style model, where they
> put some %s tags in a query, and pass the values as function parameters,
> not concatenating them. So WordPress is (as far as I can tell) completely
> immune to SQL injection now and in the future.

'cept for assy plugins which don't use the prepare() function... it's always
the plugins which let us down. :-(

- Jeff

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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Jeremy Visser]

On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 19:43 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> Also, as I note, this is based on *TWO YEAR OLD* information.  I don't know
> what Drupal and Joomla have done to systematically address these issues since
> that time.

They could have done a lot, so it’s worth checking out.

Using WordPress as an example: two years ago, they were basically
addslashes()'ing strings before concatenating them with a MySQL query.

Now, they've since completely moved to a printf-style model, where they
put some %s tags in a query, and pass the values as function parameters,
not concatenating them. So WordPress is (as far as I can tell)
completely immune to SQL injection now and in the future.

Not trying to plug WordPress here — just saying that yes, a lot of
security work could have been done since.


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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Michael Chesterton]

On 17/09/2009, at 1:16 PM, Kyle wrote:


Thanks all for the suggestions.

Meryl,

he's 9. I.e. the attention span of a goldfish.

I think we'll start with baby steps.




I wonder if openoffice.org might have something, the word processor
can save as html.
If you search around, you might be able to find web templates, too.  
Templates

might be easier than starting with a blank page.

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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Daniel Pittman]

david  writes:
> Ishwor wrote:
>>
>>> Plus you should consider setting up Drupal to manage his pages.
>>>
>>> 1. Learning the CMS was is better anyway since that is the way real web
>>> sites are managed now;
>>>
>>> 2. He can start out with filtered HTML (which is dead simple), then as he
>>> learns progress to unfiltered, and eventually PHP;
>>
>> PHP is full of bugs and security vulnerabilities(all the time). It
>> maybe easier to learn+program comparatively but I would rather not
>> bother with it.
>
> So you are suggesting that all those people running Drupal etc are insecure?
> Just curious, because I'm just setting up a Drupal site for someone.

For what it is worth, if we step back in time about two years I went and
monitored security and feature sets for various OSS CMS projects in PHP.

The two that were good enough to consider for deployment were Joomla and
Drupal; both were about equal in terms of security issues, with both of them
suffering an external attack, usually SQL injection, around every two weeks.

PHP itself was reasonable, with around one attack every three months that
would have been seriously troubling.  The applications also had an attack
approximately monthly that enabled arbitrary code execution.


Most of the attacks on the application stack were in extensions to the core of
the CMS, which were uniformly lower in quality and reliability.  There were no
less serious, however, and often more serious.


At the time Drupal had a vague plan to move to a decent database layer to
reduce SQL injection attacks, but nothing more.

Joomla had no specific plans to remediate these attacks.


I have not looked since, but my gut feeling is that either interest in both
these products, or security issues with both these products, have since
dropped off, as they are no longer so routinely featured of bugtraq.

Also, as I note, this is based on *TWO YEAR OLD* information.  I don't know
what Drupal and Joomla have done to systematically address these issues since
that time.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Adam Kennedy]

2009/9/17 Kyle :
> he's 9. I.e. the attention span of a goldfish.

Indeed.

I was quite surprised at some of the answers you got.

Some of the suggestions sounded like the equivalent of teaching about
gravity and acceleration by starting "First, lets learn about
co-efficients of friction and the calculus of air resistance. It's how
we do it in the real world". :)

Adam K
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[meryl]

Yes 高远 I forgot about Amaya... it is very good 
and Aptana is hot stuff too. http://www.aptana.com/

Meryl 
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Adrian Chadd]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009, david wrote:

> So  you are suggesting that all those people running Drupal etc are 
> insecure? Just curious, because I'm just setting up a Drupal site for 
> someone.

The PHP core has had a few interesting vulnerabilities over the last
few years but by and large the available software base is written
by people with no understanding of security and it shows.

Drupal may or may not be secure. The drupal modules you use may or may
not be secure. Etc, etc. :)


Adrian

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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[david]

Ishwor wrote:

Folks
Hi.


Plus you should consider setting up Drupal to manage his pages.

1. Learning the CMS was is better anyway since that is the way real web
sites are managed now;

2. He can start out with filtered HTML (which is dead simple), then as he
learns progress to unfiltered, and eventually PHP;


PHP is full of bugs and security vulnerabilities(all the time). It
maybe easier to learn+program comparatively but I would rather not
bother with it.



So  you are suggesting that all those people running Drupal etc are insecure? Just curious, because 
I'm just setting up a Drupal site for someone.


David.
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[meryl]

> > This is why I love SLUG.
> > Somebody asks for a Linux Dreamweaver alternative, and it goes from
> > "do it in vim" to "He should just learn Python".

... and it raises the question; When is one too young to start
programming? 

By the time Kyle's little goldfish is 11 he'll might even be
writing his own scripts ;)

100% encouragement!
Meryl 
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Rick Welykochy]

Martin Visser wrote:


I'm a big Python fan, but I reckon you can code up just as many insecure
sites or web frameworks in Python as you can in PHP.


Often security probs are PEBKAC, be it the programmer or a hapless user.


cheers
rickw



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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Martin Visser]

We just want to make sure Kyle is asking the right question ;-)

Regards, Martin

martinvisse...@gmail.com


On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Blindraven  wrote:

> This is why I love SLUG.
> Somebody asks for a Linux Dreamweaver alternative, and it goes from "do it
> in vim" to "He should just learn Python".
>
> We're tops. !!
>
>
>
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Martin Visser]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ishwor  wrote:

> 
> PHP is full of bugs and security vulnerabilities(all the time). It
> maybe easier to learn+program comparatively but I would rather not
> bother with it.
>
> I would rather suggest that junior start with Python.
>


I'm a big Python fan, but I reckon you can code up just as many insecure
sites or web frameworks in Python as you can in PHP.

Certainly there is a gazillion well put together PHP based sites and
frameworks, that are standing up in pretty well against the elements of evil
that are out there. So I wouldn't dismiss it so lightly.
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Blindraven]

This is why I love SLUG.
Somebody asks for a Linux Dreamweaver alternative, and it goes from "do it
in vim" to "He should just learn Python".

We're tops. !!




On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ishwor  wrote:

> Folks
> Hi.
>
> > Plus you should consider setting up Drupal to manage his pages.
> >
> > 1. Learning the CMS was is better anyway since that is the way real web
> > sites are managed now;
> >
> > 2. He can start out with filtered HTML (which is dead simple), then as he
> > learns progress to unfiltered, and eventually PHP;
>
> PHP is full of bugs and security vulnerabilities(all the time). It
> maybe easier to learn+program comparatively but I would rather not
> bother with it.
>
> I would rather suggest that junior start with Python. It has beautiful
> structured syntax thats easy to grasp and things can be developed
> pretty fast in Python world. As long as he's excited about
> programming, Python I believe will keep him/her reasonably happy. All
> the usual data structures are there in the standard library plus
> learning it superbly easy and fun too. There are standard web
> frameworks available for Python such as Django, Grok amongst many
> more. More at http://docs.python.org . I started with Python(more
> towards application programming then gradually doing web stuffs)
> couple of years ago. Never really looked back! :-)
>
> Also added to this are the enormous Python bindings that exist for
> doing everything from A to Z.
>
> 2D/3D graphics? -SDL/PyOpenGL
> Maths? - Scipy, Numpy
> GUI? - GTK binding, QT binding
> Web? - Django, Grok
>
> There's so much more... Also a free book by Bruce Eckel -
> http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPython
>
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> Regards,
> Ishwor Gurung
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>



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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Ishwor]

Folks
Hi.

> Plus you should consider setting up Drupal to manage his pages.
>
> 1. Learning the CMS was is better anyway since that is the way real web
> sites are managed now;
>
> 2. He can start out with filtered HTML (which is dead simple), then as he
> learns progress to unfiltered, and eventually PHP;

PHP is full of bugs and security vulnerabilities(all the time). It
maybe easier to learn+program comparatively but I would rather not
bother with it.

I would rather suggest that junior start with Python. It has beautiful
structured syntax thats easy to grasp and things can be developed
pretty fast in Python world. As long as he's excited about
programming, Python I believe will keep him/her reasonably happy. All
the usual data structures are there in the standard library plus
learning it superbly easy and fun too. There are standard web
frameworks available for Python such as Django, Grok amongst many
more. More at http://docs.python.org . I started with Python(more
towards application programming then gradually doing web stuffs)
couple of years ago. Never really looked back! :-)

Also added to this are the enormous Python bindings that exist for
doing everything from A to Z.

2D/3D graphics? -SDL/PyOpenGL
Maths? - Scipy, Numpy
GUI? - GTK binding, QT binding
Web? - Django, Grok

There's so much more... Also a free book by Bruce Eckel -
http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPython

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Ishwor Gurung
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Dean Hamstead]

Try NVU

http://net2.com/nvu/

although its been dead for a long while.

http://kompozer.net/

which seems to be under development again!



Dean

Kyle wrote:

Hi Folks,

what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?Junior wants to 
start building his own website, so he's going to require some assistance.


What do folks use pls?



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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[jon]

Or Joomla! -- www.joomla.org.

Jon.

Troy Rollo wrote:
 
Plus you should consider setting up Drupal to manage his pages.

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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Kyle]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Meryl,

he's 9. I.e. the attention span of a goldfish.

I think we'll start with baby steps.

:-)


Kind Regards

Kyle



meryl wrote:

Kyle wrote:
  

what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?



Bluefish or Quanta Plus would be what I'd recommend if a Dreamweaver
style coding-helper is required. But Junior will really learn a lot
more about standards, web development & clean code if he just uses gedit
and follows the W3C schools pages.
hth
Meryl
  

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RE: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Troy Rollo]

 
Plus you should consider setting up Drupal to manage his pages.

1. Learning the CMS was is better anyway since that is the way real web
sites are managed now;

2. He can start out with filtered HTML (which is dead simple), then as he
learns progress to unfiltered, and eventually PHP;

3. When he wants more than a static HTML page, Drupal has plenty of modules
to do more;

4. When he wants to do something that neither Drupal nor its modules can do
out of the box, he will have an incentive to progress to PHP;

Regards, 
Troy Rollo 
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-Original Message-
From: slug-boun...@slug.org.au [mailto:slug-boun...@slug.org.au] On Behalf
Of meryl
Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 11:44 AM
To: slug@slug.org.au
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

Kyle wrote:
> what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?

Bluefish or Quanta Plus would be what I'd recommend if a Dreamweaver style
coding-helper is required. But Junior will really learn a lot more about
standards, web development & clean code if he just uses gedit and follows
the W3C schools pages.
hth
Meryl
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[meryl]

Kyle wrote:
> what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?

Bluefish or Quanta Plus would be what I'd recommend if a Dreamweaver
style coding-helper is required. But Junior will really learn a lot
more about standards, web development & clean code if he just uses gedit
and follows the W3C schools pages.
hth
Meryl
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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Ben Donohue]

you could try Kompozer
http://kompozer.net/

Ben


Kyle wrote:

Hi Folks,

what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?Junior wants to 
start building his own website, so he's going to require some assistance.


What do folks use pls?


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Re: [SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Jeremy Visser]

On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 10:43 +1000, Kyle wrote:
> what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?Junior wants to 
> start building his own website, so he's going to require some assistance.
> 
> What do folks use pls?

Teach him HTML 5. It's dead easier than HTML 4 in terms of markup
simplicity, and if you give him a base to work with (like the
following), he'll do the rest. This is a perfectly valid HTML 5 page:



  Hello, world


  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nunc ut arcu
ornare dolor suscipit varius. Proin euismod turpis id enim posuere id
suscipit quam accumsan.


  Etiam euismod ante sit amet magna rhoncus et adipiscing nibh
pellentesque. Aenean eleifend, ligula eu cursus rutrum, erat dolor porta
diam, et sollicitudin lectus lorem quis eros.


That said, if you *really* don't want to code HTML by hand there's
always Nvu  which uses the Gecko engine.


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[SLUG] Dreamweaver clone for Linux ?

[Kyle]

Hi Folks,

what is the best FOSS Dreamweaver clone for Linux?Junior wants to 
start building his own website, so he's going to require some assistance.


What do folks use pls?

--

Kind Regards

Kyle

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