[SLUG] X11 forwarding

2011-10-03 Thread James Linder
Hi
I'm utterly puzzled. Perchance some wise person here can say ah-ha

One of my client-machine executes a GUI program from a server (ssh, X11 
forward, public key etc)
One in 10 there is no display, the server side of the app is gone soon after it 
starts (I see a short log of it's startup)
On the client: pos02 4568  4566  0 08:51 ?00:00:00 /usr/bin/ssh -vv 
-lpos02 stmbk /opt/rms/session/pos02/pos02
oblivious of any woes on the server (but no gui)

Reboot the client and all is well until the next time it fails.
The only hint I see is this

AUDIT: Tue Oct  4 08:51:04 2011: 4338 Xorg: client 2 rejected from local host

Thanks
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Re: [SLUG] X11 forwarding

2011-10-03 Thread Ken Foskey
Not an answer but...  One thing to remember is that server and client in X11 
is the reverse of what you think.   The server is the screen and the client 
is the application.


ssh forward the X11 across the link then it comes out on the other side.

ssh generates a dummy 'x11 server' on the machine you are connecting to and 
forwards the client application messages to that X11 server that you are 
connecting to.


On the other side the X11 comes out as a 'client' and is forwarded to the 
server screen that you started at.




-Original Message- 
From: James Linder

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:21 PM
To: slug@slug.org.au
Subject: [SLUG] X11 forwarding

Hi
I'm utterly puzzled. Perchance some wise person here can say ah-ha

One of my client-machine executes a GUI program from a server (ssh, X11 
forward, public key etc)
One in 10 there is no display, the server side of the app is gone soon after 
it starts (I see a short log of it's startup)
On the client: pos02 4568  4566  0 08:51 ?00:00:00 
/usr/bin/ssh -vv -lpos02 stmbk /opt/rms/session/pos02/pos02

oblivious of any woes on the server (but no gui)

Reboot the client and all is well until the next time it fails.
The only hint I see is this

AUDIT: Tue Oct  4 08:51:04 2011: 4338 Xorg: client 2 rejected from local 
host


Thanks
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Re: [SLUG] X11 forwarding

2011-10-03 Thread Peter Chubb
 James == James Linder j...@tigger.ws writes:

James Hi I'm utterly puzzled. Perchance some wise person here can say
James ah-ha

James One of my client-machine executes a GUI program from a server
James (ssh, X11 forward, public key etc) One in 10 there is no
James display, the server side of the app is gone soon after it
James starts (I see a short log of it's startup) On the client: pos02
James 4568 4566 0 08:51 ?  00:00:00 /usr/bin/ssh -vv -lpos02 stmbk
James /opt/rms/session/pos02/pos02 oblivious of any woes on the
James server (but no gui)

My *guess* (and that's all it is) is that the previous connection
is still hanging around, blocking access to the new one, possibly
because the previous session didn't shut down cleanly.

Peter C
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-17 Thread Alex Samad
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 04:40:11PM +0900, jam wrote:
 On Monday 17 November 2008 10:00:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  am [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

[snip]

 
 Not a trivial question :-) and not as simple as -X 
 
 I'm sitting in front of THIS machine, and logged in
 I run a program on this machine, say xeyes or xmsg
 I want the display of that program on THAT machine

x programs look at the current environment to find out the X display to
display to, set DISPLAY=host:MajourScreen#.MinorScreen# - you will
have to get around firewalls and Xauth as well.

Alex

 
 James
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-17 Thread Daniel Pittman
jam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 On Monday 17 November 2008 10:00:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  On Monday 17 November 2008 06:10:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[...]

  I'm logged into THIS machine and I want to run a program on THIS
  machine but display on THAT machine.

 Which machine are you physically located in front of?  Specifically, are
 you sitting in front of THAT, and logged in to THIS via ssh?

 If so it should be as simple as passing '-X' to your ssh session, and
 running your application on THIS.

 If that /doesn't/ work, can you post:

     ssh THIS env | grep DISPLAY
     ssh THIS type xauth
     ssh -X -v THIS /usr/bin/xterm

 (If you don't have /usr/bin/xterm on THIS then, please, substitute some
  other X11 program that is installed.)

 That will help work out where the process is going wrong

 Not a trivial question :-) and not as simple as -X 

I figured. :)

 I'm sitting in front of THIS machine, and logged in I run a program on
 this machine, say xeyes or xmsg I want the display of that program on
 THAT machine

OK: you have two options here, more or less.

One is that you can run the X session direct over the network; that has
several steps:

1. Turn on TCP sockets for X on THAT, which are disabled by default
   these days.
2. Enable connections from THIS: THAT# xhost +THIS  # not very secure...
3. Set your display on this: THIS# export DISPLAY=THAT:0
4. Run your application.

That has no real security, since everything (including keystrokes)
crosses the network clear-text, and authentication is IP based.

You can season that with the X security stuff, but I wouldn't suggest
you bother, since it doesn't really improve your security position
much.  Do this only on a trusted network.


Another is to establish some sort of secure tunnel from THIS to THAT and
run your X traffic over that.  ssh is the obvious choice, but
alternatives are possible.

For me, I would probably do it like this:

  THIS# ssh THAT -t env DISPLAY=:0 ssh -Xv THIS /usr/bin/xterm

That logs in to THAT, sets the DISPLAY variable, then connects back to
THIS via SSH to run the X application.  From that xterm I could start
everything else.


Otherwise, I would consider enabling X TCP connections from localhost on
THAT, then using a reverse SSH tunnel to connect THIS:6000 to THAT:6000,
and set DISPLAY=localhost:0 on THIS.

You would have to copy your xauth details by hand, though, which is less
fun than you might hope.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-17 Thread jam
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 10:00:09 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Monday 17 November 2008 10:00:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   am [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 [snip]

  Not a trivial question :-) and not as simple as -X 
 
  I'm sitting in front of THIS machine, and logged in
  I run a program on this machine, say xeyes or xmsg
  I want the display of that program on THAT machine

 x programs look at the current environment to find out the X display to
 display to, set DISPLAY=host:MajourScreen#.MinorScreen# - you will
 have to get around firewalls and Xauth as well.

Thanks  Alex

nope ! this is *really* a non trivial question.

the DISPLAY=THAT works only if TCP/IP forwarding is enabled, which it is NOT 
on modern distros [quote It is unlikely that something as complicated as 
xorg does not have exploits /quote}

What I'm trying to achieve is the above using ssh which can be done [see 
LTSP's LDM] but zot-in-hell I cannot fathom out what and how they do it!

Using TCP/IP then discovering that in a year or two that this has been removed 
is the reason for me not doing it.

James
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-17 Thread Daniel Pittman
jam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 On Tuesday 18 November 2008 10:00:09 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Monday 17 November 2008 10:00:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   am [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 [snip]

  Not a trivial question :-) and not as simple as -X 
 
  I'm sitting in front of THIS machine, and logged in
  I run a program on this machine, say xeyes or xmsg
  I want the display of that program on THAT machine

 x programs look at the current environment to find out the X display to
 display to, set DISPLAY=host:MajourScreen#.MinorScreen# - you will
 have to get around firewalls and Xauth as well.

 Thanks  Alex

 nope ! this is *really* a non trivial question.

 the DISPLAY=THAT works only if TCP/IP forwarding is enabled, which it
 is NOT on modern distros [quote It is unlikely that something as
 complicated as xorg does not have exploits /quote}

 What I'm trying to achieve is the above using ssh which can be done
 [see LTSP's LDM] but zot-in-hell I cannot fathom out what and how they
 do it!

LTSP boot their display manager, make a connection from the X server
(where the display is) to the application server (where the session
runs) over a secure channel, then use normal X over that channel.

This is, more or less, the double-ssh method I mentioned earlier.
Most people don't have that trouble, though, because they are sitting in
front of the graphical display rather than trying to run an application
on the local system to another, remote, graphical display they are not
physically located in front of.

 Using TCP/IP then discovering that in a year or two that this has been
 removed is the reason for me not doing it.

TCP/IP support hasn't actually been removed[1], just disabled by
default, normally by the display manager (gdm, kdm) passing the
arguments '-nolisten tcp' to the X server.

By removing that option you should be able to enable TCP connections
again, at which point things can go on as they did -- but, obviously,
you take responsibility for the security risks implied.

Regards,
Daniel

For a trusted local LAN they are probably not that great, but on an
untrusted network you would have to be crazy.

Footnotes: 
[1]  Caveat: I only checked Debian and Ubuntu, so /perhaps/ some other
 distribution went plum-crazy here.

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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread Daniel Pittman
Kyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 can someone pls provide me with an idiot's guide to getting X11
 running over ssh.

Install xauth(1) on the remote machine.
Run 'ssh -X remote.host'
Run your x11 program.

 That is to say, I want to be able to ssh into a Linux box from Windows
 (or MAC or Linux natively - but primarily Windows) using putty and
 then have the gui come up for me.

[...]

 I have attempted to understand how to do it using putty, but I seem to
 get lost. Can anyone suggest an idiot proof tutorial or some such
 which actually refers to up-to-date versions and processes/requirements?

Well, with PuTTY, turn on X11 forwarding in the connection options
rather than running 'ssh -X', but otherwise the process is identical.

What went wrong when you tried running your remote X11 applications?

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Kyle

 I know I could use VNC, but;

 1. I have to be able to use std ports to get thru corporate firewalls and
 2. I would like to have that connection secure

 And as best I can tell VNC doesn't support ssh; not to mention I  
 wouldn't know how to send it through a std port without interfering with  
 other services on those ports.

Look at the ssh man page (or Google) for port forwarding -- that will allow
you to do VNC over ssh. If you have any trouble, give SLUG another call.

:-)

- Jeff

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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread Owen Townend
2008/11/16 Kyle [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Peter,

 for some clarification please.

 Peter Chubb wrote:

 On Linux, BSD, Solaris, MacOSX or other Unices that are running X
 locally, you do

 $ ssh -f -X host xterm 

 On the host you need to have
 X11Forwarding yes
 X11DisplayOffset 10

 in /etc/ssh/sshd_config

 ## So to be clear on this;

 The 2 X11 params above are set in sshd_confing on the host I wish to control
 (controlled host)?

 From a Linux box, I would issue your above command; and from an OSX host, I
 can use the X11.app (which is I believe and Xterm application). Correct?

 And providing you have xauth and xterm installed on the remote host,
 you should get a local terminal window, from which you can run
 anything you want.

 ## So these need to be installed on the controlled host?


 You *won't* be able to run the window manager there (is that what you
 mean by `The gui' ???).  It runs on your local machine.


 ## I can see the possibility for confusion here.

 To be clear;  My initial question has to do with running the controlled
 host's desktop much like a VNC or RDP session. Which host it physically
 runs on, I don't suppose I really mind too much. So long as I can have it
 all running through std. corporately-available ports.

 You should however be able to run anything else.

 The way this works is that clients on the host talk to the SSH proxy
 on that host which tunnels the protocol back to the display indicated by
 the
 DISPLAY variable in ssh's environment on yo

 ## But if I understand your post correctly, you're telling me how to connect
 to a host and then run X-based applications displaying on my controlling
 host, but which are actually running from the controlled-host?

Hey,

Why not just use VNC over ssh?

Crash course:
Setup the vnc server on the linux box (system-preferences-remote
desktop on Ubuntu)
Then in the putty options add a port forward from an available port
(e.g. '12345') to 'localhost:5900'.
On your windows VNC client you then connect to 'localhost:12345' and
it should connect to the remote VNC server.

VNC might not be secure or run on the desired (corporate friendly)
port, but forwarding it over ssh can help solve both of those
issues...

cheers,
Owen.
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread Kyle

As ever,

ask SLUG and you end up with 5 different ways of doing it.  :-)

Thanks all. I should be able to get at least one of those working.

Daniel,

most common problem I come across doing it the remote X11 way is no 
display setup. And never sure which particular variable it is that the 
relevant appl. wants. Aside from that however, the wish to run the 
'desktop' (a.k.a Window Manager - I guess) is so I can leave programs 
running, log in and check on their progress.



Kind Regards

Kyle
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread Daniel Pittman
Kyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 As ever,
 ask SLUG and you end up with 5 different ways of doing it.:-)
 Thanks all. I should be able to get at least one of those working.

 Daniel,

 most common problem I come across doing it the remote X11 way is no display
 setup. And never sure which particular variable it is that the relevant
 appl. wants.

Well, the particular variable is 'DISPLAY', which tells the X11
applications which display server to talk to.

ssh X forwarding /should/ set that up for you automatically, including
authentication, so that says that something went wrong at that stage.

However...

 Aside from that however, the wish to run the 'desktop' (a.k.a Window
 Manager - I guess) is so I can leave programs running, log in and
 check on their progress.

...for that, you need something other than X forwarding -- X11 has no
native display disconnection or relocation capabilities, so you would be
starting a new session and then shutting it down each time.

If you intend to do a significant amount of work remotely, especially
over high latency links, then I recommend NX, which others have also
mentioned.  The performance is significantly better than VNC.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread jam
On Monday 17 November 2008 06:10:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ask SLUG and you end up with 5 different ways of doing it.  :-)

 Thanks all. I should be able to get at least one of those working.

 Daniel,

 most common problem I come across doing it the remote X11 way is no
 display setup. And never sure which particular variable it is that the
 relevant appl. wants. Aside from that however, the wish to run the
 'desktop' (a.k.a Window Manager - I guess) is so I can leave programs
 running, log in and check on their progress.

There are tantalizing hints in TBM but I've not made any work, so anyone ...

I'm logged into THIS machine and I want to run a program on THIS machine but 
display on THAT machine.

Thanks
James

PS using ssh, not disable access control and enable tcp/ip:
export DISPLAY=THAT.machine:0
THISprogram
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread Daniel Pittman
jam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 On Monday 17 November 2008 06:10:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ask SLUG and you end up with 5 different ways of doing it.  :-)

 Thanks all. I should be able to get at least one of those working.

 Daniel,

 most common problem I come across doing it the remote X11 way is no
 display setup. And never sure which particular variable it is that the
 relevant appl. wants. Aside from that however, the wish to run the
 'desktop' (a.k.a Window Manager - I guess) is so I can leave programs
 running, log in and check on their progress.

 There are tantalizing hints in TBM but I've not made any work, so anyone ...

 I'm logged into THIS machine and I want to run a program on THIS
 machine but display on THAT machine.

Which machine are you physically located in front of?  Specifically, are
you sitting in front of THAT, and logged in to THIS via ssh?

If so it should be as simple as passing '-X' to your ssh session, and
running your application on THIS.

If that /doesn't/ work, can you post:

ssh THIS env | grep DISPLAY
ssh THIS type xauth
ssh -X -v THIS /usr/bin/xterm

(If you don't have /usr/bin/xterm on THIS then, please, substitute some
 other X11 program that is installed.)

That will help work out where the process is going wrong

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-16 Thread jam
On Monday 17 November 2008 10:00:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  On Monday 17 November 2008 06:10:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ask SLUG and you end up with 5 different ways of doing it.  :-)
 
  Thanks all. I should be able to get at least one of those working.
 
  Daniel,
 
  most common problem I come across doing it the remote X11 way is no
  display setup. And never sure which particular variable it is that the
  relevant appl. wants. Aside from that however, the wish to run the
  'desktop' (a.k.a Window Manager - I guess) is so I can leave programs
  running, log in and check on their progress.
 
  There are tantalizing hints in TBM but I've not made any work, so anyone
  ...
 
  I'm logged into THIS machine and I want to run a program on THIS
  machine but display on THAT machine.

 Which machine are you physically located in front of?  Specifically, are
 you sitting in front of THAT, and logged in to THIS via ssh?

 If so it should be as simple as passing '-X' to your ssh session, and
 running your application on THIS.

 If that /doesn't/ work, can you post:

     ssh THIS env | grep DISPLAY
     ssh THIS type xauth
     ssh -X -v THIS /usr/bin/xterm

 (If you don't have /usr/bin/xterm on THIS then, please, substitute some
  other X11 program that is installed.)

 That will help work out where the process is going wrong

Not a trivial question :-) and not as simple as -X 

I'm sitting in front of THIS machine, and logged in
I run a program on this machine, say xeyes or xmsg
I want the display of that program on THAT machine

James
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[SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-15 Thread Kyle

Hiya folks,

can someone pls provide me with an idiot's guide to getting X11 running 
over ssh.


That is to say, I want to be able to ssh into a Linux box from Windows 
(or MAC or Linux natively - but primarily Windows) using putty and then 
have the gui come up for me.


I know I could use VNC, but;

1. I have to be able to use std ports to get thru corporate firewalls and
2. I would like to have that connection secure

And as best I can tell VNC doesn't support ssh; not to mention I 
wouldn't know how to send it through a std port without interfering with 
other services on those ports.


I have attempted to understand how to do it using putty, but I seem to 
get lost. Can anyone suggest an idiot proof tutorial or some such which 
actually refers to up-to-date versions and processes/requirements?

--

Kind Regards

Kyle
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-15 Thread Peter Chubb
 Kyle == Kyle  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Kyle Hiya folks, can someone pls provide me with an idiot's guide to
Kyle getting X11 running over ssh.

Warning: I know NOTHING about Windows.


On Linux, BSD, Solaris, MacOSX or other Unices that are running X
locally, you do

$ ssh -f -X host xterm 


On the host you need to have 

X11Forwarding yes
X11DisplayOffset 10

in /etc/ssh/sshd_config


And providing you have xauth and xterm installed on the remote host,
you should get a local terminal window, from which you can run
anything you want.

You *won't* be able to run the window manager there (is that what you
mean by `The gui' ???).  It runs on your local machine.

You should however be able to run anything else.

The way this works is that clients on the host talk to the SSH proxy
on that host which tunnels the protocol back to the display indicated by the
DISPLAY variable in ssh's environment on yo



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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-15 Thread Kyle

Peter,

for some clarification please.

Peter Chubb wrote:

On Linux, BSD, Solaris, MacOSX or other Unices that are running X
locally, you do

$ ssh -f -X host xterm 

On the host you need to have 


X11Forwarding yes
X11DisplayOffset 10

in /etc/ssh/sshd_config


## So to be clear on this;

The 2 X11 params above are set in sshd_confing on the host I wish to 
control (controlled host)?


From a Linux box, I would issue your above command; and from an OSX 
host, I can use the X11.app (which is I believe and Xterm application). 
Correct?



And providing you have xauth and xterm installed on the remote host,
you should get a local terminal window, from which you can run
anything you want.


## So these need to be installed on the controlled host?



You *won't* be able to run the window manager there (is that what you
mean by `The gui' ???).  It runs on your local machine.



## I can see the possibility for confusion here.

To be clear;  My initial question has to do with running the controlled 
host's desktop much like a VNC or RDP session. Which host it physically 
runs on, I don't suppose I really mind too much. So long as I can have 
it all running through std. corporately-available ports.



You should however be able to run anything else.

The way this works is that clients on the host talk to the SSH proxy
on that host which tunnels the protocol back to the display indicated by the
DISPLAY variable in ssh's environment on yo


## But if I understand your post correctly, you're telling me how to 
connect to a host and then run X-based applications displaying on my 
controlling host, but which are actually running from the controlled-host?



Kind Regards

Kyle
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Re: [SLUG] X11 Forwarding over ssh

2008-11-15 Thread Patrick Lesslie
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 05:13:38PM +1100, Kyle wrote:
 Hiya folks,
 
 can someone pls provide me with an idiot's guide to getting X11 running 
 over ssh.

You could also use NX, it's very fast and runs over port 22.
You need to install nxserver at one end, either the proprietary
one from nomachine.com or freenx.  There are GPL clients for many
platforms also downloadable from nomachine.com.

Patrick Lesslie
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[SLUG] X11 forwarding over SSH (with DHCP)

2002-02-24 Thread Simon Wong

Calling SSH/X gurus!

I am trying to get X11 forwarding over SSH working.

I am using DHCP to obtain an IP and bring up my interface (eth0).

When I SSH to my box, X forwarding works if there is an entry in my
/etc/hosts file that matches the IP of that box (when I use a static
IP).  But it doesn't work if there is no such entry there.

How do I get it to do this dynamically?

I have read a bit about setting the DISPLAY variable to the fully
qualified hostname but can't work out what display number(?) i.e. :10.0
etc.. to use?  From what I can gather, it uses an offset of 10 for the
remote displays.

Any pointers would be gratefully received, as ever :-)

TIA.

-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**

-- 
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug



Re: [SLUG] X11 forwarding over SSH (with DHCP)

2002-02-24 Thread Simon Wong

On Tue, 2002-02-26 at 03:16, Christopher Booth wrote:
 In your /etc/ssh/ssh_config file is there a line that says
 ForwardX11 yes

Yes, this is set okay.

 
 also check for a line 
 CheckHostIP yes
 
 a guess but try making that no

That was commented out so I made that explicitly no.

 
 also clients should log on by 
 ssh -X

I am actually connecting from Solaris so it's +x, however, when I
connect to my box with a static IP configured and the hostname in the
/etc/hosts you don't need to do this as it forwards X11 as per the
config.

It seems that the problem is something to do with X authority adding the
host name as lonewolf only and not the fully qualified name (I don't
have a registered hostname) or the IP of the machine instead.

I got this when I removed my local host name from the /etc/hosts file.

/usr/bin/X11/xauth: (stdin):1:  bad display name lonewolf:12.0 in
add command

Is there a setting for it to use the IP of the host?  I ha da read
through the manpage for xauth but it's quite confusing.



 
 Chris
 
 On 25 Feb 2002 15:31:36 +1100
 Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Calling SSH/X gurus!
  
  I am trying to get X11 forwarding over SSH working.
  
  I am using DHCP to obtain an IP and bring up my interface (eth0).
  
  When I SSH to my box, X forwarding works if there is an entry in my
  /etc/hosts file that matches the IP of that box (when I use a static
  IP).  But it doesn't work if there is no such entry there.
  
  How do I get it to do this dynamically?
  
  I have read a bit about setting the DISPLAY variable to the fully
  qualified hostname but can't work out what display number(?) i.e. :10.0
  etc.. to use?  From what I can gather, it uses an offset of 10 for the
  remote displays.
  
  Any pointers would be gratefully received, as ever :-)
  
  TIA.
  
  -- 
  **
  * Simon Wong *
  **
  
  -- 
  SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
  More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**

-- 
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug