Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
To me the issue goes somewhat deeper: from my limited perspective as a hardware novice, I just can't see why different drivers are even necessary. As far as I can tell one wi-fi card does exactly the same things as any other wi-fi card: is is too much to ask that the hardware should be constructed so that it works with old software which is already out there and functioning perfectly well? I accept that when there are technological breakthroughs the drivers need to change; but what we seem to have at the moment is a rerun of the old Apple/Apricot/Microbee/Commodore/Amiga hardware wars with each (wi-fi card, scanner, printer...) manufacturer refusing to run software -- i.e. drivers -- just because it was made for a different piece of hardware. Surely making a new piece of hardware that will fit into an existing system should be the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer, not the user OR the operating system manufacturer. Isn't it a bit like the printer manufacturers trying to stop you using generic ink by sneaking microchips into their cartridges? Jon. *nod* The real problem is not that Linux is hard to install: Windows is just as damn hard, and just as painful, for non-technical users.[1] The problem is that when you buy your machine it comes with Windows installed for you, by someone else, and you don't have to worry about it. Daniel Footnotes: [1] Heck, it sucks for technical folks too, a lot of the time. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
Jon Jermey jonjer...@gmail.com writes: G'day Jon. It would be *really* nice if you could follow the same quoting style as the rest of the thread; it makes it much easier to foll.w *nod* The real problem is not that Linux is hard to install: Windows is just as damn hard, and just as painful, for non-technical users. The problem is that when you buy your machine it comes with Windows installed for you, by someone else, and you don't have to worry about it. To me the issue goes somewhat deeper: from my limited perspective as a hardware novice, I just can't see why different drivers are even necessary. Let me educate you: because the hardware is different, which is because the vendors are lazy, and because ... As far as I can tell one wi-fi card does exactly the same things as any other wi-fi card: ... there are some pretty big variations in what the cards can do, to date, and networking is one of those areas where performance differences are still found, and where the activities of the hardware are complex. is is too much to ask that the hardware should be constructed so that it works with old software which is already out there and functioning perfectly well? Obviously, yes. Otherwise there would be a standard interface for wifi drivers, like we have in USB with the UHCI, OHCI, EHCI, and other standards. :) I accept that when there are technological breakthroughs the drivers need to change; but what we seem to have at the moment is a rerun of the old Apple/Apricot/Microbee/Commodore/Amiga hardware wars with each (wi-fi card, scanner, printer...) manufacturer refusing to run software -- i.e. drivers -- just because it was made for a different piece of hardware. Neither your statement about the old ... hardware wars, or about drivers, is accurate, so there isn't much response possible to this. Surely making a new piece of hardware that will fit into an existing system should be the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer, not the user OR the operating system manufacturer. Why? Seriously: why should the hardware vendor be responsible for paying out the significant amount of money required to support your boutique little OS? If you want to run whatever software you please, why shouldn't you pay directly for the cost of driver development?[1] Isn't it a bit like the printer manufacturers trying to stop you using generic ink by sneaking microchips into their cartridges? In some ways, but not very many of them, and not very similar. A much better analogy would be that a vendor who refuses to distribute hardware programming documentation is like a microchipping ink vendor: In that case both vendors are actively trying to stop you using their system the way you want, rather than just giving you all the information about the hardware and a hearty you want a driver, you know where to find GCC. Daniel Footnotes: [1] ...and you do, even in the FOSS universe: there, you pay by waiting longer to get drivers, rather than by paying more money to get them.[2] [2] ...or waiting longer *and* paying more money, as many commercial OS implementations show is quite possible. :) -- ✣ Daniel Pittman✉ dan...@rimspace.net☎ +61 401 155 707 ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
To the community. Jon's experience probably really demonstrates why Linux isn't going to go mainstream anytime soon. While I would say 90% of people are going to have hardware that just works with the most current release of most distros, it is the 10% that have issues that really stings. Surely this hurdle needs to be overcome. With the likes of Canonical, Redhat, Novell and the like wanting this to work surely there is a need for some sort of integration centre that hardware vendors can submit their gadgets for driver development assistance, and qualification? I know that they do do some of these things and a lot of problems like video and suspend/resume seem a lot more predicable. Or is this simply never going to happen and we just need to put up with it considering the effect of aggressive competition and the need to get new stuff out there all the time. Regards, Martin martinvisse...@gmail.com On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Jon Jermey jonjer...@gmail.com wrote: Puppeee did the trick! The eee 1005p is now talking to the world in Linux via wireless. Thanks, Kenneth! Jon. On 09/08/10 11:51, Kenneth Caldwell wrote: You might also investigate Puppeee-1.0 released on August 7th. http://puppylinux.org/news/releases/puppeee-10-for-the-eee-is-released/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 06:08 +1000, Martin Visser wrote: To the community. Jon's experience probably really demonstrates why Linux isn't going to go mainstream anytime soon. While I would say 90% of people are going to have hardware that just works with the most current release of most distros, it is the 10% that have issues that really stings. Surely this hurdle needs to be overcome. With the likes of Canonical, Redhat, Novell and the like wanting this to work surely there is a need for some sort of integration centre that hardware vendors can submit their gadgets for driver development assistance, and qualification? I know that they do do some of these things and a lot of problems like video and suspend/resume seem a lot more predicable. Or is this simply never going to happen and we just need to put up with it considering the effect of aggressive competition and the need to get new stuff out there all the time. Installed windows on non-mainstream machines lately. You have to find drivers, have conflicts of dlls and other things. I am not saying that it is not a problem, just not doom and gloom. Ken -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
Ken Foskey wrote: On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 06:08 +1000, Martin Visser wrote: To the community. Jon's experience probably really demonstrates why Linux isn't going to go mainstream anytime soon. While I would say 90% of people are going to have hardware that just works with the most current release of most distros, it is the 10% that have issues that really stings. Surely this hurdle needs to be overcome. With the likes of Canonical, Redhat, Novell and the like wanting this to work surely there is a need for some sort of integration centre that hardware vendors can submit their gadgets for driver development assistance, and qualification? I know that they do do some of these things and a lot of problems like video and suspend/resume seem a lot more predicable. Or is this simply never going to happen and we just need to put up with it considering the effect of aggressive competition and the need to get new stuff out there all the time. Installed windows on non-mainstream machines lately. You have to find drivers, have conflicts of dlls and other things. I am not saying that it is not a problem, just not doom and gloom. snip It is worth bearing in mind that Microsoft once did deals with Hardware suppliers and Hardware suppliers basically had/have to comply.However, the take home message from Jon's experience is the was a driver out there, so the manufacturers are obviously on board (difficult to write drives without the specs). However, one of the issues is licensing. WiFi as we all know is a licensensed technology, with royalties flowing through to CSIRO. Similarly for DVD/MPEG2. However, my understanding is that in both these cases the license is in the hardware not the software or at least not at the operating system/driver level. Alternatively, if the hardware ships with a license for the Windows software this should be transferable for use in the Linux software - as the Windows software and embedded license is redundant. A couple of years back, I bought a digital TV tuner that only came with a Windows driver with a view to running it under linux. I subscribed to the list and learnt a bit about what was involved. One of the issues seemed to be the hardware supplier was not keen for the specs to get into the public arena.So, the linux community may need to make do with closed source drivers. If SLUGers are interested in getting a feel for the issues try googling AF9015 Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
Ken Foskey kfos...@tpg.com.au writes: On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 06:08 +1000, Martin Visser wrote: Jon's experience probably really demonstrates why Linux isn't going to go mainstream anytime soon. While I would say 90% of people are going to have hardware that just works with the most current release of most distros, it is the 10% that have issues that really stings. [...] Installed windows on non-mainstream machines lately. You have to find drivers, have conflicts of dlls and other things. *nod* The real problem is not that Linux is hard to install: Windows is just as damn hard, and just as painful, for non-technical users.[1] The problem is that when you buy your machine it comes with Windows installed for you, by someone else, and you don't have to worry about it. Daniel Footnotes: [1] Heck, it sucks for technical folks too, a lot of the time. -- ✣ Daniel Pittman✉ dan...@rimspace.net☎ +61 401 155 707 ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
- Original Message - From: Martin Visser martinvisse...@gmail.com Jon's experience probably really demonstrates why Linux isn't going to go mainstream anytime soon. While I would say 90% of people are going to have hardware that just works with the most current release of most distros, it is the 10% that have issues that really stings. Yeah I second Ken's reply to this - Windows has exactly the same problems at the moment. Especially with Windows 7 64bit. I have clients that have sound card problems that are unresolvable because the driver doesn't support Win7 properly. Others have all sorts of other issues getting things to work - webcams, fingerprint readers, extra stuff. Its not roses on the other side either... Dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
Puppeee did the trick! The eee 1005p is now talking to the world in Linux via wireless. Thanks, Kenneth! Jon. On 09/08/10 11:51, Kenneth Caldwell wrote: You might also investigate Puppeee-1.0 released on August 7th. http://puppylinux.org/news/releases/puppeee-10-for-the-eee-is-released/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] A distro which recognises Wi-fi on Asus eee 1005p? -- thanks for suggestions
Thanks for all the suggestions on this. So far I have tried the backport method in Ubuntu 10.04 and 9.10 without success, and ndiswrapper likewise. I've also been able to get Mint 9 and Moblin 2 running, but with no wireless. Other distros have failed to boot. I am now holding out for the new Ubuntu NBR in October. Jon. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
