RE: [RCSE] NSP not including plans for their kits.
If the designer of the plane did a good job, He would have calculated the C.G. of his creation. Is it really asking too much of the designer, kit maker and retailer to share this information with the buyer. Maybe some of us are ordering and trying to fly planes that are over our heads, but its our money, and it is our choice how we spend it. If getting a C.G. with the plane when we buy it would help us, Why should you, and some of the experts object...or don't you want us to know? I thought that we were trying to encourage newcomers into our hobby. If a little help with the C.G prevents the less skilled of us from crashing, and possibly giving up the hobby isn't it a cheap price to pay? By the way, the Jade kit gives two different C.G.s. One on the instructions and a different one on the plan. The one on the instructions is so nose-heavy that it is nearly unflyable even by two LSF 5's who tried to help me sort out the problem. The problem wasn't apparent to the experts when a check of the C.G showed it to be EXACTLY what the instructions specified. When I discovered that the C.G. on the plan was ,7 inches further back, and rebalanced to that setting the Jade became a real pussycat...A real joy to fly. I must admit I came very close to giving up the hobby. Now I'm ready to order a couple more High Dollar planes RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Colditz Glider
Has anyone else heard of this? I was watching a show on the History Channel about escapes from a castle used to house allied POW's in WW2 when the subject came up. Some of the prisoners secretly built a glider in the attic of the castle and planned to fly out and escape. They even built a small model glider to test it out (the German guards who saw it were happy that the prisoners had found a way to occupy their time). They never actually tried it out, since the war was coming to the end and escape attempts were forbidden by the allies by then. Seems like it might be a cool scale subject. Here's some info on a full scale version that was built and tested a while back.. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/glid_building.html Brett Jaffee: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brett's Slope and Power Home Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~jaffee OnTheWay Quake 3 server utility: http://www.planetquake.com/ontheway The Unoffical Extra 300 Home Page: http://bjaffee.tripod.com/extra300/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Beefing Up Grand Esprit Wing
In a message dated 12/30/01 10:03:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My friend, Dave Otte is also building a Grand Esprit and we have discussed this problem. I flew Grands in many contests including the 1977 F3B World Championships in South Africa. I highly recommend that you use one larger diameter wing rod and stiffen the spar with carbon fiber. My friend, Dave Otte can give you the details on his modifications at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dale Nutter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] NSP not including plans for their kits.
No Sal
The Plane is a Millennium form RnR
Cheers.
Happy New Year.
AL
- Original Message -
From: "Sal DeFrancesco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Albert Wedworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] NSP not including plans for their kits.
> Let me get this straight. You bought the plane used from someone else and
It's my fault that you crashed?
>
> Albert Wedworth wrote:
>
> > Hi Keith
> > Al
> > I done just that! Guessed at the Cof G and CRASH
> > Don't do it! Cost me the plane used $750.00 + $450.00 replacement
parts.
> > At lest get the C of G ! The rest you can fake. I like the max throws
on
> > every thing. But that's my style.
> > And be careful with the C of G you get for the list. When I asked, I
> > received four or more different locations. The one I picked was wrong =
; {
> > Get a hold of the manufacture or someone you can trust.
> > Forget Sal you'll get FRUSTRATED!
> > Merry Christmas.
> > Good luck.
> > Al
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Watson, Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 1:06 PM
> > Subject: RE: Re: [RCSE] NSP not including plans for their kits.
> >
> > > > I've flown 2m and HLG. And after 20 years of flying the same couple
> > > > of planes ;-) I'm expanding out. I just got my first high dollar 3m
> > > > mouldie. It was used and didn't have any "instructions". My only
> > > > desire for help was, at least give me a frickin' starting place for
> > > > the CG so I don't immediately crash the thing! I'll adjust from
there
> > > > to my own tastes.
> > >
> > > Here I am replying to my own post. :-)
> > >
> > > Why would this be such a concern if all of the existing equipment
> > > locations worked successfully? Because it is an electric. There is
> > > nothing to indicate where the previous owner had positioned the motor
> > > battery. So it is possible to place a 2lb lump of battery anywhere
> > > in a 6 inch range inside the fuselage. So "give me a starting CG" is
> > > something I want! =8-O
> > >
> > > Even on a new pure glider I would like to know what CG will get me
> > > safely off the ground for the first launch.
> > >
> > > Keith Watson
> > >
> > > PS: There is a break in our Oregon rain so it's time to go fly
> > > something.! :-)
> > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send
"subscribe"
> > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"
and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> Sal DeFrancesco
> Northeast Sailplane Products
> 948 Hercules Dr. Suite 12
> Colchester, Vt. 05446
> 802-655-7700
>
> Website: http://www.nesail.com
>
>
>
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] NSP not including plans for their kits.
Let me get this straight. You bought the plane used from someone else and It's my
fault that you crashed?
Albert Wedworth wrote:
> Hi Keith
> Al
> I done just that! Guessed at the Cof G and CRASH
> Don't do it! Cost me the plane used $750.00 + $450.00 replacement parts.
> At lest get the C of G ! The rest you can fake. I like the max throws on
> every thing. But that's my style.
> And be careful with the C of G you get for the list. When I asked, I
> received four or more different locations. The one I picked was wrong = ; {
> Get a hold of the manufacture or someone you can trust.
> Forget Sal you'll get FRUSTRATED!
> Merry Christmas.
> Good luck.
> Al
> - Original Message -
> From: "Watson, Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 1:06 PM
> Subject: RE: Re: [RCSE] NSP not including plans for their kits.
>
> > > I've flown 2m and HLG. And after 20 years of flying the same couple
> > > of planes ;-) I'm expanding out. I just got my first high dollar 3m
> > > mouldie. It was used and didn't have any "instructions". My only
> > > desire for help was, at least give me a frickin' starting place for
> > > the CG so I don't immediately crash the thing! I'll adjust from there
> > > to my own tastes.
> >
> > Here I am replying to my own post. :-)
> >
> > Why would this be such a concern if all of the existing equipment
> > locations worked successfully? Because it is an electric. There is
> > nothing to indicate where the previous owner had positioned the motor
> > battery. So it is possible to place a 2lb lump of battery anywhere
> > in a 6 inch range inside the fuselage. So "give me a starting CG" is
> > something I want! =8-O
> >
> > Even on a new pure glider I would like to know what CG will get me
> > safely off the ground for the first launch.
> >
> > Keith Watson
> >
> > PS: There is a break in our Oregon rain so it's time to go fly
> > something.! :-)
> > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"
> and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
>"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Sal DeFrancesco
Northeast Sailplane Products
948 Hercules Dr. Suite 12
Colchester, Vt. 05446
802-655-7700
Website: http://www.nesail.com
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Stratos
Like new, never damaged, Voltz extreme and Mulitplex Super FL servos. New 1500 NMH battery. Add rcvr and go beat Texans! $850.00 plus shipping. Kansas City and Wichita will deliver. [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] AMD ?
Same Here! - Original Message - From: "Lee Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "soaring mail page" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:18 PM Subject: [RCSE] AMD ? > Anyone know anything about AMD "Aero Model Design > Ltd." > They advertise in the S&E Magazine and have a Hong > Kong > address. I haven't been able to get a response from > them. Is there a distributer in the US.??? Lee > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] titanium parts
I'm looking for anyone in the soaring community who fabricates titanium parts for sailplanes. Thanks, Mickey Sullivan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Easterly slopes in the SF Bay Area?
Joe Parsons asks: >Since the usual wind machine for the SF Bay Area doesn't work during most of the winter, winds are consistently from the east. (deleted)< Joe, Try Windy Hill. It's located in San Mateo County, on the East side of Highway 35 (Skyline Boulevard) about 2 miles South of the intersection with Highway 84 (Woodside Road). There are 2 parking areas at Windy Hill, both on the East side of Skyline Blvd., park in the North parking area ( the closest to Highway 84) and the hill is right in front of you. Windy Hill is operated by the Mid-Penninsula Regional Open Space District and a permit is required to fly R/C there. My understanding is that the permits are free, but issued for a limited time period (30 days I think). You can get more information about the permit situation at the following URL http://www.openspace.org/usepermit.html Hope this helps Ken RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] AMD ?
Anyone know anything about AMD "Aero Model Design Ltd." They advertise in the S&E Magazine and have a Hong Kong address. I haven't been able to get a response from them. Is there a distributer in the US.??? Lee __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Beefing Up Wing
--- Rick Van Clief <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Shouldn't the thicker carbon go on top? Carbon being poorer in > compression > than in tension and all. Yes. Carbon uni has compression strength of, say, 100k psi but strength in tension is double that or more. Typical carbon spar arrangement for a 3M ship has .060 * 1/2 on top and .030 * 1/2 on bottom with end-grain balsa core (see http://www.mvsaclub.com/articles/dark_star2.htm for an example). The carbon is so much stronger than the spruce that the spruce serves no purpose once the carbon is on, so you can shave the supplied spruce down to make the laminated spar fit into the rib slot. Also, the typical kit's box-spar arrangement with the shear webs on the sides of the spar caps is less effective than a solid end-grain web between top and bottom spars. __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re: Canards & others
Thanks for such a lucid and instructive post. When discussing cruciform, T, and Conventional tails, does the interference drag disappear when the control surfaces are separated; that is, the elevator ends before the horizontal stabilizer begins? There's one element you didn't discuss (and I don't remember if you brought it up in an earlier thread): the inverse V-Tail. If built with a skid at the bottom (or a twin boom, made magically as light as a single boom), would the increase in proverse (?) roll mean a need for less dihedral, meaning less interference drag on the wings? Is this splitting a split hair? Are there other advantages? - On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Don Stackhouse @ DJ Aerotech wrote: > Zbigniew Michalczyk writes: > > >Canard concept is like a V-tail concept... > >Once only build the V-tail > > > >for museum statistics ,of course > > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that comment. V-tails work fine > on most models as long as they are designed properly. They do have an > advantage on interference drag in most cases, but otherwise they are > essentially equivalent to T-tails and conventional tails in actual > practice, IF THEY ARE DESIGNED PROPERLY. Unfortunately there are too many > folks out there who don't know how to do that, and they have given the > concept a bad name. > > We have kitted a number of models that come with an option for both > conventional tail and V-tail. Handling and stability are essentially equal > on each of these. The Chrysalis series even come with all parts included in > the kit for BOTH tail types. > > The aerodynamic differences among the different tail types are extremely > small, to the point that it's splitting hairs to find the differences in > most cases. The main difference is the interference drag, as I mentioned > above. A V-tail has one inside corner, a T-tail and a conventional tail > each have two, and the worst in this regard is the cruciform tail, which > has four inside corners. > > An upright V-tail does have more adverse rolling effect than an equivalent > T-tail or conventional tail although this is only a factor during strong > rudder inputs, and even then is normally not a significant factor, because > of the much larger span of the wing in comparison to the tail. There is > theoretically some "destructive interference" between the two panels of a > V-tail during a rudder input, although in actual practice we have found > this to be usually insignificant' perhaps in part to the fact that the > V-tail's wider chord and/or longer span panels tend to have better Reynolds > numbers and/or span loadings than the smaller panels of the equivalent > other tails. > > The primary advantages of the V-tail are structural, and these can be very > significant. First of all, the V-tail can in many cases be structurally > simpler than the other types, and therefore lighter. This weight in the > tail has a significant effect on pitch inertia, which can significant;y > influence the tail size needed for adequate dynamic stability. The biggest > factor is that it keeps the mass of the tail structure low, unlike a > T-tail, so it doesn't tend to twist off the tail boom in a ground loop. > OTOH, most of the tail especially the tips, is up in the air, out of the > grass and rocks, so it does not tend to snag tips and break off the tail > boom like a conventional tail. The cruciform tail has some of this same > property, although its more complex structure and its still marginal stab > tip clearance (only a little better than a conventional tail's) tends to > negate this. On full-scale sailplanes the dynamics of tail loads in > off-field landings and their effects on the tail are a bit different, and > in those cases the T-tail generally comes out ahead. This is one reason why > so many full scale sailplanes have T-tails. > > Construction wise, the V-tail has only two things to build. OTOH, they > don't do as well with all-flying surfaces, a stabilizer-ruddervator > two-piece panel design needs less area to achieve the same control force. > The differences among the different tail types are minor enough that it > usually comes down to the details of the individual aircraft design in > question. > > In our experience, the best combination has often been the V-tail, which is > why we've used it so often on our sailplane kits. I have no particular > allegiance to V-tails, in each case we used them simply because the were > the best at getting the job done in each of those designs. > > On the Chrysalis series we include the parts for a conventional tail > because some beginners are afraid of V-tails. However, when I build a > Chrysalis for myself I use the V-tail because it handles the same, but > weighs less and does not drag the tail through the grass on landing. > > > > Don Stackhouse @ DJ Aerotech > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.djaerotech.com > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane
[RCSE] Re: Viggen in retrospect
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Tord S Eriksson wrote: > The nose wing on the Viggen works very well at high angles of attack, > making it a routine manouvre to land on runways as short as a flight > deck of a carrier, using vortex lift and the powerful engine to maximum > benefit. Engine issues aside, doesn't its high angle of attack for short approaches sound a lot like a sailplane? > Also in turning flight it comes into its own, while flying at low > Cls (= high speed) it is more of a hindrance than a boost. At supersonic > speed, when the centre of lift is at roughly 50& mean chord, it would > be better to have a swing-wing nose wing, that tucks away, > like the Milan, an experimental Mirage III variant. That's pretty cool. But, as I understand it, model sailplanes have barely reached Mach .3. -J RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Easterly slopes in the SF Bay Area?
Since the usual wind machine for the SF Bay Area [1] doesn't work during most of the winter, winds are consistently from the east. While the DS dervishes may get all trembly and excited, it does eliminate most of the usual sites. Anyone in this area know of the best sites this time of year? Or should I just resign myself to a long Building Season? Joe Parsons [1] Fresno -- Multimedia development and hosting 925.829.5923 www.yankeemedia.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Jade Questions
At 01:45 PM 12/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >He is almost correct. I spend an average of 1-2 hours oer day with >e-mails. I try to answer what I can, but the amount of e-mails >can be aoverwhelming. Please call me if possible and I will be more than >happy to spend some time helping you. I can confirm that every time I'm on the phone with Sal, I have his FULL attention. Joe Parsons >Joe Parsons wrote: > > > At 05:16 AM 12/21/01 +, you wrote: > > >Got my Jade kit a few days ago and find the instructions somewhat > > >sparse. I emailed NSP > > > > Sal is not very good about answering his e-mail--like, he basically > > doesn't. :) > > > > Your best bet is to pick up the phone and call him. > > > > Joe Parsons > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >-- >Sal DeFrancesco >Northeast Sailplane Products >948 Hercules Dr. Suite 12 >Colchester, Vt. 05446 >802-655-7700 > >Website: http://www.nesail.com -- Multimedia development and hosting 925.829.5923 www.yankeemedia.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Jade Questions
He is almost correct. I spend an average of 1-2 hours oer day with e-mails. I try to answer what I can, but the amount of e-mails can be aoverwhelming. Please call me if possible and I will be more than happy to spend some time helping you. Joe Parsons wrote: > At 05:16 AM 12/21/01 +, you wrote: > >Got my Jade kit a few days ago and find the instructions somewhat > >sparse. I emailed NSP > > Sal is not very good about answering his e-mail--like, he basically > doesn't. :) > > Your best bet is to pick up the phone and call him. > > Joe Parsons > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and >"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sal DeFrancesco Northeast Sailplane Products 948 Hercules Dr. Suite 12 Colchester, Vt. 05446 802-655-7700 Website: http://www.nesail.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
