[RCSE] Launching Sanity
Mike, I¹m the ³people² here, but I¹m just following the sage advice of those who have gone before us. Chuck¹s testament: "After a few years, we began receiving complaints about not being able to zoom so in order to satisfy those who came to zoom instead of thermal, we added a bypass switch. If the contestant chose to bypass the tension limiter, NO RELAUNCHES were permitted for broken tow lines. A few people had trouble taping the peddle while the tension limiter was cycling. These fliers could usually get better launches by putting the metal to the metal and letting the tension limiter do the tapping. Fliers with Oly II's and similar models didn't notice any difference from normal winches. We finally got tired of listening to complaints about not being able to get good zooms so discontinued using the tension limiter and went to heavier towlines. The original tension limiter base is still rusting in the weeds behind my shed in the woods behind my house." I¹m going to launch and adjust to whatever set up the good people running the Southwest come up with. The last thing I want to do is make any decision harder for them. The problem last year was line breaks, and they had lots of new line. We¹ve been finding that the Memphis Twine batches recently have had thin spots. Once these are cut out you get some long runs. The guys are going to elevate the turnaround and winch, which should make things more powerful, and less susceptible to nicks from the ground. I¹m sure they will come up with a balanced solution. My point is if the winches become too soft there will undoubtedly be some grumblings, just like there are if there are too many line breaks. It¹s tough hosting a contest! I think the idea of flying off F3B winches is great but there are several issues that come up: 1. Retriever set up for a large contest? 2. Inventory of average club 3. Cost of mono; having different diameter for different wind conditions The plus side is that it is a regulated amount of torque and airplane designers can use that for design parameters. And it¹s International. JE -- Erickson Architects John R. Erickson, AIA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Wow, I have my own land now. Cool... I have no idea who came up with the idea of using a threaded rod. But I always liked when everyone else used them since while a threaded rod is easy to adjust, it's the poorest at getting rid of the heat generated. Flat sheets are nicer. And stainless resistance goes up as temp goes up. Constantan or Manganin work much better for resistor material since they change very little with temp change. But they aren't cheap. Most commonly used adjustable resistors use multiple small rods. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Dennis Phelan, of Mike Lachowski Land, deserves the credit for the S/S threaded resistor rod rod for use with the FLS Motors. At least I got my first one from Dennis when he graduated to a F3B specific winch. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Launching Sanity
I think Dennis Phelan, of Mike Lachowski Land, deserves the credit for the S/S threaded resistor rod rod for use with the FLS Motors. At least I got my first one from Dennis when he graduated to a F3B specific winch. So blame Dennis, not me. Regards, Dave Corven. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
I've always heard that it's not good to stall your winch motor, that it's hard on the motor. Is this going to happen even more so if you detune the winches ? Just curious, and wondering if that would be a new issue for you guys to have to deal with then. Dave Hauch www.rc-builds.com - Original Message - From: "Martin Usher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Soaring Exchange" Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity That resistor rod is a really good idea -- simple, effective and robust. A lot of the discussion about launching has been the effect on the line but that's the least of our problems. We've put stronger line on our winches -- we're at 270lb test at the moment -- but all that's done for us is that the motors and other mechanical components are now breaking up. This is starting to get expensive, and for what? So a handful of people can launch planes a little higher than they might otherwise be able to do, planes that are supposed to be high performance sailplanes that have a low enough sink rate that they should be able to cruise around for many minutes while their owners look for lift. (They should maybe try flying a plane that's a little more challenging -- 2 meter or an Easy Glider, something that demands you get everything right or you're on the ground. Those big moldies are way too easy to fly.) Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Actually I haven't proposed that we use specific F3B winches for TD, but to use the F3B resistance spec. as base line to better control and equalize the FLS powered winches for our US TD comps and allow the lower lb test line usage. A side effect is that this would allow a FLS powered winch to be used for local F3B and F3J comps to hopefully get more people an opprotunity to get involved in FAI activities. Anker wrote the following: There's a much better method than using a resistor. The resistor generates heat that is pure wasted energy. Instead, an automatic pulser that cuts the power to the solenoids when the current exceeds a certain value is a much better solution. There's an even better advantage to this solution because you can adjust the maximum current depending on what is being launched. An even more advanced concept is to have a foot pedal that isn't simply and on/off switch, but a rheostat that controls the current limiter. I actually have one of these sitting in my garage. I can appreciate the above concept in theory but again it is bound to be more expensive to fab and install and "more important" it will be some what more fragile and if it fails to an all on condition, OOOPS ! The S/S threaded rod is cheap, can't fail to an all on or off condition, read reliability, it is manually adjustable with a pair of small wrenches, once set it can't change value and since it is exposed to the air, with especially the threads, it is much better cooling than say for instance a so;id bar. Employing the KISS method by "Keepng It Simple Stupid" is always a better way to go. Regards, Dave Corven. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
That resistor rod is a really good idea -- simple, effective and robust. A lot of the discussion about launching has been the effect on the line but that's the least of our problems. We've put stronger line on our winches -- we're at 270lb test at the moment -- but all that's done for us is that the motors and other mechanical components are now breaking up. This is starting to get expensive, and for what? So a handful of people can launch planes a little higher than they might otherwise be able to do, planes that are supposed to be high performance sailplanes that have a low enough sink rate that they should be able to cruise around for many minutes while their owners look for lift. (They should maybe try flying a plane that's a little more challenging -- 2 meter or an Easy Glider, something that demands you get everything right or you're on the ground. Those big moldies are way too easy to fly.) Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Dave, all well and good, but the average club/pilot doesn't have a wide drum only a drum that equals the length of the long shaft. Hell if we use a wide drum there's no need for a long shaft, just build an F3B winch. I have used my F3B winch with braided on occasion, it doesn't have the zip that mono has for sure. so I think that moving the resistance slightly lower to give ample power without breaking the line is in order. I noticed that Daryl posted the same, and I would think that Daryl is certainly knowledgeable about winches and launching. I don't believe that the current FAI setup on a Ford with Braided would be strong enough. I would not want to get out of shape and not have enough power to pull me back on. This is where a real lack of power is a problem. Again I believe that you can lower the resistance on an FLS to get the power to where it won't break lines, and will make everyone happy (ok not everyone, that'll never happen). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff, I had a FLS wade built motor powered winch with a wide drum that I used with mono for F3B and with braided 200 lb test line for TD. this winch had a 1/2 inch dia threaded stainless steel rod as a resistor to make it F3B legal and it was never disconnected. 1) You can't hurt the S/S rod with the heat generated by the hardest use at a contest and, 2) you won't hurt the motor, brushes or any other part of the motor with the S/S rod. 3) You will find that you can launch any of the current breed or future sailplanes with this package assuming the use of a properly built FLS motor on braided 200 lb test line. 4) Battery life will depend on the battery capacity you choose. Small chargers on the winch line and a small generator near by all but eliminates that question. Jeff, I have done this and I have built a new winch that will prove again, my plan to be workable. Bosch motors used in F3B may not provide the same power that the FLS motor can using braided line due to the larger armature and field dia's on the FLS motor but here again, the motor of choice in the US is the FLS so until we get off our cans and start experimenting with the variables what will get done. I have started with my testing again, HAVE YOU ? Let us know when you have some results to report and I will do the same. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Without knowing for sure, I don't think we want the same resistance as the F3B winches. The F3B winches use mono so they get power from that, and the FLS draws way more amperage, so if we resistor down to where the F3B winches are the resistors will probably get smoked... I would think we would want a little less resistance to overcome the lack of mono, and higher draw of the FLS. One of the Electrical engineers could probably come up with a decent resistance. I'd expect it to be a small , but as my F3B teacher has taught me a little change is a lot of power. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with a
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
One big advantage of the resistor is that the heat goes into the air - not into the windings and brushes when you start pulsing the juice for a power limit. Dick Barker HLG doesn't need any stinking winch! At 12:38 PM -0500 12/22/07, Anker Berg-Sonne wrote: >There's a much better method than using a resistor. The resistor generates >heat that is pure wasted energy. Instead, an automatic pulser that cuts the >power to the solenoids when the current exceeds a certain value is a much >better solution. There's an even better advantage to this solution because you >can adjust the maximum current depending on what is being launched. An even >more advanced concept is to have a foot pedal that isn't simply and on/off >switch, but a rheostat that controls the current limiter. I actually have one >of these sitting in my garage. > >Anker RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
There's a much better method than using a resistor. The resistor generates heat that is pure wasted energy. Instead, an automatic pulser that cuts the power to the solenoids when the current exceeds a certain value is a much better solution. There's an even better advantage to this solution because you can adjust the maximum current depending on what is being launched. An even more advanced concept is to have a foot pedal that isn't simply and on/off switch, but a rheostat that controls the current limiter. I actually have one of these sitting in my garage. Anker Jeff Steifel wrote: Without knowing for sure, I don't think we want the same resistance as the F3B winches. The F3B winches use mono so they get power from that, and the FLS draws way more amperage, so if we resistor down to where the F3B winches are the resistors will probably get smoked... I would think we would want a little less resistance to overcome the lack of mono, and higher draw of the FLS. One of the Electrical engineers could probably come up with a decent resistance. I'd expect it to be a small , but as my F3B teacher has taught me a little change is a lot of power. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with a winch resistor system and that will be the start of something. We have to quit talking about this and get it done. I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have migrated to this last year. Regards, Dave Corven. Also Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. -- Original message -- From: Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From what I have seen in this thread, the two real simple, straight forward suggesions seem to be, lower capacity batteries like used in B, and lighter line, like 200# (which the Dayton club already uses and it works just fine for them except they have a great grass field and and no humps in it). Personnally I just hate downwind launches (my problem huh?) and tension limiters sound worse than retrievers to keep working correctly. I am really interested to hear how SWC goes to see how Rick's resistor set up works, that might work just fine. I've had my arse chewed on privitaly about somethings here, heh, these are just ideas, right? Still wished we all had the B winches though, then there is no problem. Marc Have a great Christmas, and holiday with your families! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provide
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Jeff, I had a FLS wade built motor powered winch with a wide drum that I used with mono for F3B and with braided 200 lb test line for TD. this winch had a 1/2 inch dia threaded stainless steel rod as a resistor to make it F3B legal and it was never disconnected. 1) You can't hurt the S/S rod with the heat generated by the hardest use at a contest and, 2) you won't hurt the motor, brushes or any other part of the motor with the S/S rod. 3) You will find that you can launch any of the current breed or future sailplanes with this package assuming the use of a properly built FLS motor on braided 200 lb test line. 4) Battery life will depend on the battery capacity you choose. Small chargers on the winch line and a small generator near by all but eliminates that question. Jeff, I have done this and I have built a new winch that will prove again, my plan to be workable. Bosch motors used in F3B may not provide the same power that the FLS motor can using braided line due to the larger armature and field dia's on the FLS motor but here again, the motor of choice in the US is the FLS so until we get off our cans and start experimenting with the variables what will get done. I have started with my testing again, HAVE YOU ? Let us know when you have some results to report and I will do the same. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Without knowing for sure, I don't think we want the same resistance as > the F3B winches. > The F3B winches use mono so they get power from that, and the FLS draws > way more amperage, so if we resistor down to where the F3B winches are > the resistors will probably get smoked... > I would think we would want a little less resistance to overcome the > lack of mono, and higher draw of the FLS. > > One of the Electrical engineers could probably come up with a decent > resistance. I'd expect it to be a small , but as my F3B teacher has > taught me a little change is a lot of power. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Long, but read it anyway. > > > > Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not > only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points > which > could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken > line > can usually repaired within a few minutes. > > Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage > and make winches more user friendly are: > > > > 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and > the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs > for > F3B winches. > > > > Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a > > pair > of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification > that > should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. > > > > The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements > > for > F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD > comps,an > F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also > unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during > heavy > use. > > > > Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I > have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of > installation > and cost. > > > > 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows > > for > lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some > stretch > at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line > tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also > could > be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. > > > > This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I > > see > where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with > a > winch resistor system and that will be the start of something. We have to > quit > talking about this and get it done. > > > > I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years > Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have > migrated to this last year. > > > > Regards, Dave Corven. > > Also Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> From what I have seen in this thread, the two real simple, straight > >> forward > >> suggesions seem to be, lower capacity batteries like used in B, and > >> lighter > >> line, like 200# (which the Dayton club already uses and it works just fine > for > >> them except they have a great grass field and and no humps in it). > >> > >> Personnally I just hate downwind launches (my problem huh?) and tension >
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Without knowing for sure, I don't think we want the same resistance as the F3B winches. The F3B winches use mono so they get power from that, and the FLS draws way more amperage, so if we resistor down to where the F3B winches are the resistors will probably get smoked... I would think we would want a little less resistance to overcome the lack of mono, and higher draw of the FLS. One of the Electrical engineers could probably come up with a decent resistance. I'd expect it to be a small , but as my F3B teacher has taught me a little change is a lot of power. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with a winch resistor system and that will be the start of something. We have to quit talking about this and get it done. I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have migrated to this last year. Regards, Dave Corven. Also Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. -- Original message -- From: Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From what I have seen in this thread, the two real simple, straight forward suggesions seem to be, lower capacity batteries like used in B, and lighter line, like 200# (which the Dayton club already uses and it works just fine for them except they have a great grass field and and no humps in it). Personnally I just hate downwind launches (my problem huh?) and tension limiters sound worse than retrievers to keep working correctly. I am really interested to hear how SWC goes to see how Rick's resistor set up works, that might work just fine. I've had my arse chewed on privitaly about somethings here, heh, these are just ideas, right? Still wished we all had the B winches though, then there is no problem. Marc Have a great Christmas, and holiday with your families! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
At 09:44 PM 12/21/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have migrated to this last year. ... But they launched a 52 oz 2 meter Duck in downwind with no problem. Full pedal all the way. Long live the duck. Steve RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
That makes Good sense. Some people have to much time to think. GOOD Job Dave !!! - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marc Gellart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Soaring Exchange" Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: [RCSE] Launching Sanity Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with a winch resistor system and that will be the start of something. We have to quit talking about this and get it done. I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have migrated to this last year. Regards, Dave Corven. Also Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. -- Original message -- From: Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From what I have seen in this thread, the two real simple, straight forward suggesions seem to be, lower capacity batteries like used in B, and lighter line, like 200# (which the Dayton club already uses and it works just fine for them except they have a great grass field and and no humps in it). Personnally I just hate downwind launches (my problem huh?) and tension limiters sound worse than retrievers to keep working correctly. I am really interested to hear how SWC goes to see how Rick's resistor set up works, that might work just fine. I've had my arse chewed on privitaly about somethings here, heh, these are just ideas, right? Still wished we all had the B winches though, then there is no problem. Marc Have a great Christmas, and holiday with your families! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.6/1192 - Release Date: 12/21/2007 1:17 PM RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Launching Sanity
Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with a winch resistor system and that will be the start of something. We have to quit talking about this and get it done. I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have migrated to this last year. Regards, Dave Corven. Also Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. -- Original message -- From: Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From what I have seen in this thread, the two real simple, straight forward > suggesions seem to be, lower capacity batteries like used in B, and lighter > line, like 200# (which the Dayton club already uses and it works just fine > for > them except they have a great grass field and and no humps in it). > > Personnally I just hate downwind launches (my problem huh?) and tension > limiters > sound worse than retrievers to keep working correctly. I am really > interested > to hear how SWC goes to see how Rick's resistor set up works, that might work > just fine. > > I've had my arse chewed on privitaly about somethings here, heh, these are > just > ideas, right? Still wished we all had the B winches though, then there is no > problem. > > Marc > > Have a great Christmas, and holiday with your families! > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
