Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
> The notion that everything can stay the same as it was in the past is probably at best naïve. (JD) I was born in London after WW2, my parents having lived throuhg the Blitz. Some of the tales I heard at my mother's knee were quite harrowing, all very matter of fact but I for one can't imagine what it was like to have V2's falling on you (you never heard them until after the explosion). I grew up with bomb sites and the occasional unexploded bomb. More recently we have the attacks in London. Bad, but mere pinpricks compared to what the IRA has dealt in its time. Life will go on -- the people behind this stuff will be caught and prosecuted. Its just a bunch of kids playing guerillas and they're going to get smacked down hard for it. We -- that's Americans -- have got to get a grip. You're being spooked by shadows. Worse still, people are rather cynically exploiting your fears. >How we preserve our sport will require some insightful proactive thinking, and willingness to compromise. 1) Slope (AGL has a different meaning) 2) Simulators I will not participate in any version of this sport that has been artifiicially crippled by paranoia. I am a responsible person and I expect to be treated like one. I will not bend to paranoia. I just will not yield. Something that I mentioned to others recently -- sorry if its not strictly soaring related -- is important here. If you watch "Turner Classic Movies" or similar channels then you see odd one-reelers that fill in the odd quater-hour. Some date from '41 or '42 and show the American army ready to fight the Japanese. A more pathetic operation is difficult to imagine -- obselete equipment, uniforms that look like British hand-me-downs, just a mess. Fast forward two years -- just two years, note -- and you're dealing with a powerful machine fighting and winning a war against two different enemies. We've now beein "War in Terror" mode for about the same length of time as the whole of WW2..if this nation could organize itself to fight some real enemies in a couple of years why are we still cowering in terror over a handful of rag-tag irregulars hiding in caves? Why are we even discussing this? Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
Wow amazing. You are all willing to give in to this.What other freedoms do you want to give into. I personally don't want to give in. These terrorists have made it so people are willing to give government permission to take away our freedom in exchange for security... A security that they can't provide anyway... Wake up people.. Seems we have gotten soft. John Derstine wrote: Probably what will happen is that R/C soaring and other high altitude sport/hobbies that use airspace (as in model rockets), will require special dates, venues, and windows of opportunity provided by special FAA waiver. Large model rocketry already is regulated by this process. It is only a matter of time before ALL aerosports requiring higher than "normal" altitudes are monitored and regulated by FAA waiver, if, that is, they exceed the limit set by the AMA FAA for unregulated club flying. So 700-1000 feet would actually be a godsend if and when the hammer falls. I foresee a time when virtually all organized R/C flying (other than the Parkflyer unregulated low power stuff) will take place on controlled sites governed by the AMA and its club infrastructure. Perhaps the idea of regional flying sites similar to Muncie, but put in locations where most of us actually live might bear some consideration. How we preserve our sport will require some insightful proactive thinking, and willingness to compromise. The notion that everything can stay the same as it was in the past is probably at best naïve. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Allan/Tara [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:54 PM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring In the current issue of "Model Aviation" which I received today I found the "Presidents Perspective" page quite interesting. It makes it quite evident that there is a complete lack knowledge as to what we in the soaring community are all about. In his remarks he (Dave Brown) states that his recommendation to the FAA is that a minimum altitude restriction be set at 700' and preferably 1,000'. Probably just fine for the "slime" machines but a death blow to sailplanes. These restrictions while unenforceable, would in essence make the even average weekend flier a lawbreaker,not to mention the whole liability problem. Anybody out there have any idea as to who to contact to get this thing turned around,somebody who will make the AMA listen ! Allan Parsons RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
Great call Tom. I agree! Let's not get our panties in a bunch everyone. Cheers AL Albert E. Wedworth ( AL ) The Bag Lady Cell 530-228-9445 Fax 530-343-1715 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Mid-air. - Original Message - From: "Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring Martin really has this one absolutely right! Keith I like the present situation because there's a sort of gentlemen's agreement with the FAA -- we don't interfere with full-size traffic and they leave us alone. It works well for both parties. The FAA assumes that we're responsible people but reserves the right to wield a big stick if we're not. All Dave Brown can do is disturb a stable situation. He can't request exclusive use of airspace up to 700' without seriously restricting the number of places we can fly. Full size pilots have to share the air. They just have to look where they're going, especially near the ground. There are birds up there. There are other people blundering around in planes and ultralights. There's parafoils, balloons -- all sorts of things. Our models add just a tiny bit extra to the mix -- there's not a lot of us, we're predictable, we avoid areas where planes fly and we can get out the way quickly if we have to. So if we're not being a problem then why try to find a solution? My hope is the FAA is more pragmatic than the AMA. So far, so good. Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
Martin really has this one absolutely right! Keith I like the present situation because there's a sort of gentlemen's agreement with the FAA -- we don't interfere with full-size traffic and they leave us alone. It works well for both parties. The FAA assumes that we're responsible people but reserves the right to wield a big stick if we're not. All Dave Brown can do is disturb a stable situation. He can't request exclusive use of airspace up to 700' without seriously restricting the number of places we can fly. Full size pilots have to share the air. They just have to look where they're going, especially near the ground. There are birds up there. There are other people blundering around in planes and ultralights. There's parafoils, balloons -- all sorts of things. Our models add just a tiny bit extra to the mix -- there's not a lot of us, we're predictable, we avoid areas where planes fly and we can get out the way quickly if we have to. So if we're not being a problem then why try to find a solution? My hope is the FAA is more pragmatic than the AMA. So far, so good. Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
Excellent points. I too like the current situation. But there's always the nagging concern about what will transpire if a catastrophic collision happens. Obviously, the lawyers get much more vicious when a wrongful death occurs. Yet, we really just don't know what will happen legally speaking. For two reasons: 1. Hasn't happened yet (right?), 2. The rules that we operate under aren't really rules. At least not yet. The fear of becoming the "test case" does help to moderate our behavior at least. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
(Everyone knows that a model aircraft is about 36" wingspan and is powered by a glow motor or sometimes an electric motor and is flown in a figure of eight pattern just in front of the operator.) > Anybody out there have any idea as to who to contact to get this thing turned around,somebody who will make the AMA listen ! I don't think they will, ever. I like the present situation because there's a sort of gentlemen's agreement with the FAA -- we don't interfere with full-size traffic and they leave us alone. It works well for both parties. The FAA assumes that we're responsible people but reserves the right to wield a big stick if we're not. All Dave Brown can do is disturb a stable situation. He can't request exclusive use of airspace up to 700' without seriously restricting the number of places we can fly. Full size pilots have to share the air. They just have to look where they're going, especially near the ground. There are birds up there. There are other people blundering around in planes and ultralights. There's parafoils, balloons -- all sorts of things. Our models add just a tiny bit extra to the mix -- there's not a lot of us, we're predictable, we avoid areas where planes fly and we can get out the way quickly if we have to. So if we're not being a problem then why try to find a solution? My hope is the FAA is more pragmatic than the AMA. So far, so good. Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
Probably what will happen is that R/C soaring and other high altitude sport/hobbies that use airspace (as in model rockets), will require special dates, venues, and windows of opportunity provided by special FAA waiver. Large model rocketry already is regulated by this process. It is only a matter of time before ALL aerosports requiring higher than "normal" altitudes are monitored and regulated by FAA waiver, if, that is, they exceed the limit set by the AMA FAA for unregulated club flying. So 700-1000 feet would actually be a godsend if and when the hammer falls. I foresee a time when virtually all organized R/C flying (other than the Parkflyer unregulated low power stuff) will take place on controlled sites governed by the AMA and its club infrastructure. Perhaps the idea of regional flying sites similar to Muncie, but put in locations where most of us actually live might bear some consideration. How we preserve our sport will require some insightful proactive thinking, and willingness to compromise. The notion that everything can stay the same as it was in the past is probably at best naïve. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Allan/Tara [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:54 PM > To: Soaring@airage.com > Subject: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring > > In the current issue of "Model Aviation" which I received today I > found > the "Presidents Perspective" page quite interesting. It makes it quite > evident that there is a complete lack knowledge as to what we in the > soaring > community are all about. > In his remarks he (Dave Brown) states that his recommendation to the > FAA > is that a minimum altitude restriction be set at 700' and preferably > 1,000'. > Probably just fine for the "slime" machines but a death blow to > sailplanes. > These restrictions while unenforceable, would in essence make the even > average weekend flier a lawbreaker,not to mention the whole liability > problem. > Anybody out there have any idea as to who to contact to get this thing > turned around,somebody who will make the AMA listen ! > Allan Parsons > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format > with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and > AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
In Dave Brown's defense; Let's try to remember that he MAY be asking only for something attainable. While possibly knowing that anything higher just won't be agreed to. I wonder if the FAA would even consider 2000'AGL. Personally, I doubt it. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] AMA's position with regard to soaring
In the current issue of "Model Aviation" which I received today I found the "Presidents Perspective" page quite interesting. It makes it quite evident that there is a complete lack knowledge as to what we in the soaring community are all about. In his remarks he (Dave Brown) states that his recommendation to the FAA is that a minimum altitude restriction be set at 700' and preferably 1,000'. Probably just fine for the "slime" machines but a death blow to sailplanes. These restrictions while unenforceable, would in essence make the even average weekend flier a lawbreaker,not to mention the whole liability problem. Anybody out there have any idea as to who to contact to get this thing turned around,somebody who will make the AMA listen ! Allan Parsons RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
