[RCSE] Aerotowing
All this talk about aerotowing has me intrigued. I've never done it but it seems to me that it'd be a most enjoyable way to launch. What are the general rules of thumb regarding methods, setup and behavior? Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing
In a message dated 1/11/2006 5:12:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What are the general rules of thumb regarding methods, setup and behavior? See http://www.soaringissa.org/Default.htm. John Derstine's links don't work anymore, but the ones that do cover the various aspects of the subject pretty well. Good Lift! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing
Naturally, the Derstine page roughly titled What are the procedures for towing and what must the tow pilot and sailplane pilot do during the tow? Interests me the most. Any one have a link to something similar? Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing
I find that Aerotow is easier than other types of launching. Sailplane pilot keeps the wings level and the tow pilot does the rest. Heck, Johnny Berlin took my plane straight up while he was doing rolls. My job was to let him know when I was going to release. One thing I noticed is that towing takes some special talent. There are occasions when tow pilots have a hard time keeping the right amount of speed and the right amount of climb for some of the faster sailplanes. Sometimes the sailplane can overtake the tow plane and make for some exciting releases. Or, from what I've been told, some of us less experienced sailplane pilots don't know when to use spoilers on tow. I guess there are two ways to look at it. One is to just pull the plane right up to release height the fastest way. The other is to make it more realistic like the full scale with a slower steady climb. I don't know which I like better yet. I do know that tow pilots like Johnny and others make it seem easy. T - Original Message - From: Ray Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing This probably doesn't help Bill, but I can see the full circle now. Many sailplane clubs were off shoots of power clubs and with aerotowing becoming popular I can see the migration back to the power clubs. Aerotow is very similar to an ROG winch tow, but Aerotow for sure beats lugging the winch. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing Naturally, the Derstine page roughly titled What are the procedures for towing and what must the tow pilot and sailplane pilot do during the tow? Interests me the most. Any one have a link to something similar? Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing
The Derstine page was a good start, although it was far from the last word on the topic. It represented his views and opinions. I think you all know the rest of that... Aerotowing is definitely enjoyable. You asked for parameters. Tugs should be large enough and powerful enough to be seen and haul the planes up. While we have successfully towed a 50 lb sailplane with a 50cc 1/4 scale Cub, we do not recommend that for all. The addition of larger engines to the tugs gives quite a bit of a safety margin to both ships. If the sailplane drags a wing tip and starts to pirouette on the ground, a larger/more powerful tug can pull through. A smaller setup would have difficulty. It is our belief here in KS, where we do a lot of aerotow, that a powerful launch is best. The goal is to get the team up high enough and with enough airspeed that, should the tow need to be aborted, the sailplane has a better chance to return to the field. Tug and glider pilot can both play a role in modulating the speed of the tow. I have ships that have easily overrun the tug. It was my fault, all I had to do was pull up on the sailplane to reduce it's speed. The tug pilot can also pull up to accomplish the same. Do not scrimp on the quality of the tow release SERVO. The release should be tested such that the line is released under significant load. The servo should have good torque, obviously digital is overkill. Use the servo arm wisely, put the release cable/wire at the shortest possible part of the arm, not the outside. You don't need much throw. It is critical that the two pilots communicate, especially when either is new or nervous. Do not hesitate to release if things get out of shape. Do not hesitate to tell the other guy to get off if things are either out of shape or too high for comfort. Interesting to note the comment about things coming full circle back to power. I'd like to offer that we have found that the tugs without mufflers, like those used at JR, are loud. It wears on you after a while. You don't notice the sound levels 'till they take a break and it is significant and unenjoyable. We have had great success in hushing our tugs using mufflers, prop choice and throttle management. Finally, smaller wheels on either the tug or the sailplane should be discouraged. If the sailplane is small, say 1/4 or less, the wheel will frequently not be tall enough for modest grass. Use a dolly. This is by far the most frequent cause of aerotow mishap. Please go to my half-developed web site. I have lots of pics and videos, and lots of self incriminating descriptions of mistakes made with aerotow ships. Please learn from them. www.kcse.us Lee Estingoy Kansas City Soaring and Electric Club and in a new twist, Consiglieri for Castle Creations, Inc. Yes, I now get paid to play with toys planes all day long. :) Off to AMA show tomorrow. - Original Message - From: Tom Broeski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ray Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing I find that Aerotow is easier than other types of launching. Sailplane pilot keeps the wings level and the tow pilot does the rest. Heck, Johnny Berlin took my plane straight up while he was doing rolls. My job was to let him know when I was going to release. One thing I noticed is that towing takes some special talent. There are occasions when tow pilots have a hard time keeping the right amount of speed and the right amount of climb for some of the faster sailplanes. Sometimes the sailplane can overtake the tow plane and make for some exciting releases. Or, from what I've been told, some of us less experienced sailplane pilots don't know when to use spoilers on tow. I guess there are two ways to look at it. One is to just pull the plane right up to release height the fastest way. The other is to make it more realistic like the full scale with a slower steady climb. I don't know which I like better yet. I do know that tow pilots like Johnny and others make it seem easy. T - Original Message - From: Ray Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing This probably doesn't help Bill, but I can see the full circle now. Many sailplane clubs were off shoots of power clubs and with aerotowing becoming popular I can see the migration back to the power clubs. Aerotow is very similar to an ROG winch tow, but Aerotow for sure beats lugging the winch. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing Naturally, the Derstine page roughly titled What
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing
Bill, In April there will be two aerotow events in the Central valley (Ca). One is in early apirl with CVRC and the next one in Los Banos Scale event in End of April hosted by SBSS(http://sbss.org/scale.html) On top of that, I think SVSS have aerotow events and SBSS has monthly aero tow on the second Saturday at Los Banos. Come on down and we can show you what you missed. Janesville is near Susanville? Brian RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Aerotowing
We are a small club in Southern California, and we have been doing a lot of ELECTRIC aerotow with a 1/4 scale Cub. We use an Actro 40-4 motor on 10S4P using an 18 prop. I fly a Nimbus 4 that is 6 meters and a 1/3 scale Ventus that is 5 meters and we are able to tow it up, without all the noise and smell of gas engines. I am building a 1/4 scale, 96 Wilga with a Actro 60 motor on 12S4P with a 26 prop for more power on tow, but the electric Cub is great way to go for most 1/4 scale gliders. We can not fly any gas driven planes at our flying site due to its location and our agreement with the City. While there is a big investment in batteries (LiPo's), the number of flights we get and they amount of recharges, we have defiantly got our money's worth. We went to the Visalia scale aerotow event and every one who saw it could not believe the performance and we number of tows we got. It's a great way to go! Jonathan -Original Message- From: Lee Estingoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 4:37 PM To: Tom Broeski; Ray Hayes; Bill Swingle; Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing The Derstine page was a good start, although it was far from the last word on the topic. It represented his views and opinions. I think you all know the rest of that... Aerotowing is definitely enjoyable. You asked for parameters. Tugs should be large enough and powerful enough to be seen and haul the planes up. While we have successfully towed a 50 lb sailplane with a 50cc 1/4 scale Cub, we do not recommend that for all. The addition of larger engines to the tugs gives quite a bit of a safety margin to both ships. If the sailplane drags a wing tip and starts to pirouette on the ground, a larger/more powerful tug can pull through. A smaller setup would have difficulty. It is our belief here in KS, where we do a lot of aerotow, that a powerful launch is best. The goal is to get the team up high enough and with enough airspeed that, should the tow need to be aborted, the sailplane has a better chance to return to the field. Tug and glider pilot can both play a role in modulating the speed of the tow. I have ships that have easily overrun the tug. It was my fault, all I had to do was pull up on the sailplane to reduce it's speed. The tug pilot can also pull up to accomplish the same. Do not scrimp on the quality of the tow release SERVO. The release should be tested such that the line is released under significant load. The servo should have good torque, obviously digital is overkill. Use the servo arm wisely, put the release cable/wire at the shortest possible part of the arm, not the outside. You don't need much throw. It is critical that the two pilots communicate, especially when either is new or nervous. Do not hesitate to release if things get out of shape. Do not hesitate to tell the other guy to get off if things are either out of shape or too high for comfort. Interesting to note the comment about things coming full circle back to power. I'd like to offer that we have found that the tugs without mufflers, like those used at JR, are loud. It wears on you after a while. You don't notice the sound levels 'till they take a break and it is significant and unenjoyable. We have had great success in hushing our tugs using mufflers, prop choice and throttle management. Finally, smaller wheels on either the tug or the sailplane should be discouraged. If the sailplane is small, say 1/4 or less, the wheel will frequently not be tall enough for modest grass. Use a dolly. This is by far the most frequent cause of aerotow mishap. Please go to my half-developed web site. I have lots of pics and videos, and lots of self incriminating descriptions of mistakes made with aerotow ships. Please learn from them. www.kcse.us Lee Estingoy Kansas City Soaring and Electric Club and in a new twist, Consiglieri for Castle Creations, Inc. Yes, I now get paid to play with toys planes all day long. :) Off to AMA show tomorrow. - Original Message - From: Tom Broeski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ray Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing I find that Aerotow is easier than other types of launching. Sailplane pilot keeps the wings level and the tow pilot does the rest. Heck, Johnny Berlin took my plane straight up while he was doing rolls. My job was to let him know when I was going to release. One thing I noticed is that towing takes some special talent. There are occasions when tow pilots have a hard time keeping the right amount of speed and the right amount of climb for some of the faster sailplanes. Sometimes the sailplane can overtake the tow plane and make for some exciting releases. Or, from what I've been told, some of us less experienced sailplane pilots don't know when to use spoilers on tow. I
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing
Say Hey Bill! Although I'm a former Navy guy, I checked with some bro's on the ~other side~, and got some good advise here for ya: General Rules of Thumb are the following: 1. When saluting a General, always salute with your right hand. Keep the thumb tightly clenched against the index finger of the rigid right hand. Keep the thumb as straight as possible, however, due to the stress of encountering a General, do not be suprised if a slight ~crook~ appears at the mid-point of the thumb (no matter how straight you try to keep it). Never look the General in the eye (they might ask you to volunteer for something), and neither should you look at your thumb, for it is a sign of weakness. While it is important to wash the edge of your pinky finger (because it faces the General if the salute is done correctly), the only part of your thumb you need to wash is the very outward tip, because it could leave a smudge mark on your temple if you changed the oil lately in a Hummer or SUV. That's all I know about General rules of thumb. As for setup and behavior you inquire about, this is MOST important: If someone tries to set you up with a General's daughter, forget it. You're just asking for trouble from the beginning. Your behavior will tip off the General, and you know that that meansBooty Duty. Hope this helps- Murphy - Original Message - From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: [RCSE] Aerotowing All this talk about aerotowing has me intrigued. I've never done it but it seems to me that it'd be a most enjoyable way to launch. What are the general rules of thumb regarding methods, setup and behavior? Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Aerotowing
and affliction known to man over the internet, your buddy Murphy here has one heck of a record going. To get a better appreciation of Deprived Bus Syndrome, answer the following few questions: 1. Which carried more passengers? A. Sopwith Camel B. Greyhound Bus Lines C. Elvis Lines D. None of the above. 2. Who carries more passengers between Reno and Winnemucca per year? A. Airplanes B. Buses C. Sopwith Camels D. All of the above 3. If you had to jump out using a parachute, which would be the safest to jump out of: A. An Airplane B. A Bus C. A relationship with a bi-curious Girlfriend D. A Ferris Wheel going the wrong way If you answered A to all three questions, you need to stop flying toy airplanes. If you answered B to all three questions, you are correct (and can probably get a scholarship to Bus Buddies University (and immediate salvation from DBS, by the way!) If you answered C to all the questions, you might consider running as an officer or for a position with the Executive Committee of The Northern California Slope Soarers Club. If you answered D to any of the questions, call me 1-800-GET-ACLU and I'll see what I can do. Hope this helps. Murph always here to help Murphy Here is another one of Murph's unique contributions towards one of Bill's dilemmas that he seemingly comes up with from time to time. Once again, Murph hit the nail square on the head again. The wisdom of Solomon comes to mind when I think about Murph's answers. Bill had posed the question I believe as to what was everyone's favorite plane to fly. Dated 6/7/02 I presented the Swingle question to my flying buddy Murphy and this is what the nutcase replied with. I really wonder about his ability to comprehend. To put it quite simply I find Murph to be mentally in and out. Lately, it seems more out than in. His response is as follows: Response to Bill Swingle regarding favorite planes: Well, as best as I can recollect, it was back in my Woodshop class at San Rafael High School back in '65. Our instructor, Mr. Sawbuck, was a real stickler for detail. Why, I can remember him giving me guff (and a bad grade at that) because my hand hewn toothpicks were too thick. I explained to him that half my cousins in Tennessee where missing every other tooth, and after showing him a picture of the family re-union, he changed my grade from a D- to an A+. You see, my toothpicks were just about as wide as a kernal of corn, or Jes Right fer the Pickin' as we used to say. Mr. Sawbuck always said, Function before Form. That quote always struck home with me, and I've tried to live my life with Mr. Sawbuck's words inscribed in the Cerebelum of my Soul. That's why I swear by Metamucil...Function before Form. Okay, well, getting back to the question you posed, Mr. Swingle (catchy name at that), what was my most memorable plane? That's a tough one Bill. Actually, I had two that I could never ever decide which was my favorite. My Sawbuck had me do a handrail for a spiral staircase one day, and that was my first exposure to a Compass Plane. Now that sucker could take her down just a sliver at a time, until the handrail fit just so. Didn't matter, mind you, whether the handrail went left or right, up or down, that good ol' Compass Plane could move some wood. That's all I have to say about that plane. The other plane that has to be tied for the honors is a gal I met at Mel's Drive-in, up yonder Lombard Street. Used to call her Plane Jane, but lemme tell ya one thing Bill, there warn't nuthin' plane about plane Jane. She'd skiddy up ta the window with all the muscle tone of an ice cream sundae, and lay it all on the tray. Thank goodness I had a good friend Merle, who owned a glass shop...saved my arse a number of times. Hope this helps your survey. Well, Bill, don't hesitate to ask for more details if you should need them. I think I wore out the compass plane and threw her out. But I think plane Jane is still shakin' it down, and I think she works at a bar called Mona's Gorilla Lounge downtown. I'll get ya the number. -Murphy- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring-request@airage.com -Original Message- From: Murph[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:16 PM To: Bill Swingle; Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing Say Hey Bill! Although I'm a former Navy guy, I checked with some bro's on the ~other side~, and got some good advise here for ya: General Rules of Thumb are the following: 1. When saluting a General, always salute with your right hand. Keep the thumb tightly clenched against the index finger of the rigid right hand. Keep the thumb as straight as possible, however, due to the stress of encountering a General, do not be suprised if a slight ~crook~ appears at the mid-point of the thumb (no matter how straight you try to keep it). Never look the General
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing advice
Chris Gregg writes: but trouble on the downwind leg. Remember to the plane(s) there is no such thing as an "upwind" or "downwind" leg. The towpilot is most likely slowing the plane down on the downwind leg, since from a ground-speed perspective the plane appears to speed up when travelling down-wind. Let it! It has to! lider would go low behind the owplane and start whipping from side to side. That would be the wake. Ether climb above it or drop below it, or even fly out to the sides. The side to side weave is a classic "figure eight" caused by bouncing from one tip vortice to the other, most likely. With practice it is possible to "box" the wake, flying all ther way around it, pull up through it or drop down through it at will. Just don't stay in it. towplane would stall and See first paragraph. Fly faster. Hope this helps! John Roe Laguna Hills, Ca __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Aerotowing HLG
At 07:21 PM 4/2/00 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember seeing a website about aerotowing HLGs using a MPX twinstar. Anyone have that address handy? Anyone have tips? http://www.mcs.net/~bacuslab/HlgAerotow.html Enjoy, Jim Downers Grove, IL ICQ 6997780 Visit my R/C Soaring Page at http://www.mcs.net/~bacuslab/soaring.html RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
