Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
With all this talk of the new Spread Spectrum radios I just bought one today. Thanks guys for pushing me over the edge, more new technology for me to learn about and enjoy. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Thanks guys. Good link. So, is 2.4G SS approved by AMA? What happens if somebody wants to use a 2.4G SS radio at an AMA Club field or even an AMA sanctioned contest? What frequency pin do you use? Some fool is bound to try it, even though the range is less than 72 MHz. However the range seems to be sufficient for DLG, (errr... at least most of the time :-) ). Would be a comfy feeling knowing I can fly my DLG at any local park or small field and not be worried about being shot down or doing worse to someone else. Steve Meyer SOAR, LSF IV At 10:01 PM 1/25/2006, Dan Ahearn wrote: Should be fine on the slope. I flew my buddy's in a easystar to 1500' AGL (RAM2 varified) and about 1800' down range, no glitches no worries, solid as a rock. There is a great thread worth looking at on RC groups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817 In fact, I've had a chance to wiggle the sticks on a 6102 converted to the Spectrum, folks are running with it. On 1/25/06, Doug McLaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 09:08:45AM -0600, Bob Johnson wrote: | As I see it, the biggest 'problem' with using one in a glider is that the | receiver has two antennae, each 3.75 inches in length that should be kept at | right angles to one-another. Apparantly each antenna is for a completely seperate RX on a different 1 MHz channel (but being spread spectrum, these channels can be shared with others), so if one gets a good signal and one doesn't, you're still good. So having them at right angles will give you a better chance of picking up at least one signal for any given orientation, but even having them both at 180 degrees (i.e. straight) wouldn't be any worse than a 72 MHz RX with a perfectly straight antenna (which is pretty common.) Bigger problems that I see are that the range is limited (though they haven't really said just how limited -- but from what I've heard it's somewhere between 1000 and 3000 feet) and that if you have a carbon fiber fuselage, getting the antenna out of the fuse might be difficult. Note that the limited range might very well exasberate any sub-optimal antenna orientations. Also, being that it's 2.4 GHz, I'd strongly suggest against putting any 2.4 GHz transmitters into your plane -- like any telemetry or video transmitter. Even if the exact frequencies used differ, I'd still expect it to desense the RX and reduce the range even more. I've never used one of the systems myself, but from what I've seen they work fine. The TX is a pretty basic computer radio, and there's only six channels to work with so using it with a full house glider will probably mean giving up some things, but I'll bet they're just the thing at the slope with simpler planes. They'd also be nice for situations where you have what looks like a great slope or site, but it's only a mile away from an established club and so you don't really dare flying there with traditional equipment. They need to hurry up and get a 8+ channel system with full range and a more featured transmitter (either that or modules for existing radios.) It would be like a license to print money ... -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Steve, Do you read AMA's Model Aviation? There was an article showing Steve Kaluf flying a big aero ship with the radio and talks about the fact that no one needs pins with it and that it would not cause problems at the normal flying field. Not sure which issue, but it was in the last two months. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Steve, Do you read AMA's Model Aviation? There was an article showing Steve Kaluf flying a big aero ship with the radio and talks about the fact that no one needs pins with it and that it would not cause problems at the normal flying field. Not sure which issue, but it was in the last two months. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Marc Gellart wrote: Steve, Do you read AMA's Model Aviation? There was an article showing Steve Kaluf flying a big aero ship with the radio and talks about the fact that no one needs pins with it and that it would not cause problems at the normal flying field. Not sure which issue, but it was in the last two months. Look closer. It was a foamy. Here is what Steve Kaluf wrote in an RCU forum: The statement that AMA has said that insurance will only apply when using the Spektrum system with electrics is false. AMA has not made this statement. Horizon Hobby has limited the use of this new system to smaller, park-flyer type aircraft due to the current systems range limitations. These limitations make the system unsuitable for use in larger aircraft that could be flown farther away and possibly fly out of range. Horizon has stated the range on this system under less than optimum conditions is at worse around 1500', at best around 3000' under ideal conditions. Again, AMA is not limiting any coverage for users using the Spektrum system. For those of you considering using it with larger aircraft simply consider this. If you do have an accident and litigation ensues; do you think a sharp attorney might pick up on the fact that the manufacturer has indicated this system should only be used with aircraft flown relatively close to the transmitter? I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions here. I simply suggest you follow the manufactures recommendations. Please do not reply to this post expecting me to respond to it. I seldom post to forums. If you have a question you are welcome to e-mail me privately and I'll be happy to answer your question. Regards, Steve Kaluf AMA Technical Director ** RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
JR / Spektrum put on a few discussions with one of the Spektrum's designers at the recent AMA show in Ontario, CA. I attended one, interesting stuff. Range and power are NOT the primary concerns that the Spektrum people have with using their system on larger or non-foamy ships. The issue is that the combination of frequency and antenna size make it possible for larger planes with more solid structures or components to potentially encounter an attitude where the little antennas are masked from the TX, thereby losing signal, and perhaps, the plane. This would not be an issue on park flyers, unless one were to mount a DA100 on one. Other factors that may reduce range are atmospheric, most notably humidity. Carbon fiber construction will definitely maybe possibly also have an affect on this issue of reception. So, if you flyDLGs in the rain and feel that the risk of being shot down by your good buddies at the field is larger than the risk of the carbon in your plane masking the signal, you may find the range of the Spektrum to be a problem. Otherwise, it should work fine on the manufacturer's suggested applications. He did indicate that Spektrum is working hard to roll out a version that will be suitable for larger aircraft. Lee Estingoy Overland Park, KS - Original Message - From: S Meyer To: Soaring@airage.com Cc: Doug McLaren ; Bob Johnson ; Dan Ahearn Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios Thanks guys. Good link.So, is 2.4G SS approved by AMA? What happens if somebody wants to use a 2.4G SS radio at an AMA Club field or even an AMA sanctioned contest? What frequency pin do you use?Some fool is bound to try it, even though the range is less than 72 MHz. However the range seems to be sufficient for DLG, (errr... at least most of the time :-) ). Would be a comfy feeling knowing I can fly my DLG at any local park or small field and not be worried about being shot down or doing worse to someone else.Steve MeyerSOAR, LSF IVAt 10:01 PM 1/25/2006, Dan Ahearn wrote: Should be fine on the slope. I flew my buddy's in a easystar to 1500' AGL (RAM2 varified) and about 1800' down range, no glitches no worries, solid as a rock. There is a great thread worth looking at on RC groups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817In fact, I've had a chance to wiggle the sticks on a 6102 converted to the Spectrum, folks are running with it.On 1/25/06, Doug McLaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 09:08:45AM -0600, Bob Johnson wrote: | As I see it, the biggest 'problem' with using one in a glider is that the | receiver has two antennae, each 3.75 inches in length that should be kept at | right angles to one-another. Apparantly each antenna is for a completely seperate RX on a different 1 MHz channel (but being spread spectrum, these channels can be shared with others), so if one gets a good signal and one doesn't, you're still good. So having them at right angles will give you a better chance of picking up at least one signal for any given orientation, but even having them both at 180 degrees (i.e. straight) wouldn't be any worse than a 72 MHz RX with a perfectly straight antenna (which is pretty common.) Bigger problems that I see are that the range is limited (though they haven't really said just how limited -- but from what I've heard it's somewhere between 1000 and 3000 feet) and that if you have a carbon fiber fuselage, getting the antenna out of the fuse might be difficult. Note that the limited range might very well exasberate any sub-optimal antenna orientations. Also, being that it's 2.4 GHz, I'd strongly suggest against putting any 2.4 GHz transmitters into your plane -- like any telemetry or video transmitter. Even if the exact frequencies used differ, I'd still expect it to desense the RX and reduce the range even more. I've never used one of the systems myself, but from what I've seen they work fine. The TX is a pretty basic computer radio, and there's only six channels to work with so using it with a full house glider will probably mean giving up some things, but I'll bet they're just the thing at the slope with simpler planes. They'd also be nice for situations where you have what looks like a great slope or site, but it's only a mile away from an established club and so you don't really dare flying there with traditional equipment. They need to hurry up and get a 8+ channel system with full range and a more featured transmitter (either that or modules for existing radios.) It would
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Before we witness more misinformation (like on E-Zone) about 2.4GHz, the ISM band, and the protocol employed by the DX6, I suggested folks tune into RCGroups. The designers themselves have written in-depth... Quoting Bill's Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Marc Gellart wrote: Steve, Do you read AMA's Model Aviation? There was an article showing Steve Kaluf flying a big aero ship with the radio and talks about the fact that no one needs pins with it and that it would not cause problems at the normal flying field. Not sure which issue, but it was in the last two months. Look closer. It was a foamy. Here is what Steve Kaluf wrote in an RCU forum: The statement that AMA has said that insurance will only apply when using the Spektrum system with electrics is false. AMA has not made this statement. Horizon Hobby has limited the use of this new system to smaller, park-flyer type aircraft due to the current systems range limitations. These limitations make the system unsuitable for use in larger aircraft that could be flown farther away and possibly fly out of range. Horizon has stated the range on this system under less than optimum conditions is at worse around 1500', at best around 3000' under ideal conditions. Again, AMA is not limiting any coverage for users using the Spektrum system. For those of you considering using it with larger aircraft simply consider this. If you do have an accident and litigation ensues; do you think a sharp attorney might pick up on the fact that the manufacturer has indicated this system should only be used with aircraft flown relatively close to the transmitter? I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions here. I simply suggest you follow the manufactures recommendations. Please do not reply to this post expecting me to respond to it. I seldom post to forums. If you have a question you are welcome to e-mail me privately and I'll be happy to answer your question. Regards, Steve Kaluf AMA Technical Director ** RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Simon Van Leeuwen PnP Systems - The E-Harness of Choice Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Good advice. Of course my post was only dealing with the AMA position on this new technology. I thought that a post directly from the AMA Technical Director was an appropriate manner in which to do that. Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Before we witness more misinformation (like on E-Zone) about 2.4GHz, the ISM band, and the protocol employed by the DX6, I suggested folks tune into RCGroups. The designers themselves have written in-depth... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Lee Estingoy wrote: JR / Spektrum put on a few discussions with one of the Spektrum's Carbon fiber construction will definitely maybe possibly also have an affect on this issue of reception. So, if you fly DLGs in the rain and feel that the risk of being shot down by your good buddies at the field is larger than the risk of the carbon in your plane masking the signal, you may find the range of the Spektrum to be a problem. Otherwise, it should work fine on the manufacturer's suggested applications. Lots of the foamies out there that you would consider park flyers have carbon all over them to keep the cheezy foam from bending, almost Fortunately, China has really cheap labor so now you can get a woodie for under $100. But even that has carbon fiber landing gear and the battery packs are almost as long as the antenna. I don't have any extra RX for mine so I haven't taken it out to the slope yet. And the 6102 retrofit looks really tempting since the 6102 has a lot nicer program than the stock DX6... But what I really want is a 10X spektrum Yes, I really do have stuff that isn't a sailplane. There is not much thermal activity just before sunset in the middle of the winter so the electric powered thermal in the nose will have to do for flying in the back yard. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Yes, but I think you are missing the point. The problem for Spektrum is large areas of solid (to RF at this freq.) material that block the antennae. Carbon tubes or strips in a foamy aren't large enough to matter. Lee - Original Message - From: Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lee Estingoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Soaring@airage.com; S Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Doug McLaren [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bob Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Ahearn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios Lee Estingoy wrote: JR / Spektrum put on a few discussions with one of the Spektrum's Carbon fiber construction will definitely maybe possibly also have an affect on this issue of reception. So, if you fly DLGs in the rain and feel that the risk of being shot down by your good buddies at the field is larger than the risk of the carbon in your plane masking the signal, you may find the range of the Spektrum to be a problem. Otherwise, it should work fine on the manufacturer's suggested applications. Lots of the foamies out there that you would consider park flyers have carbon all over them to keep the cheezy foam from bending, almost Fortunately, China has really cheap labor so now you can get a woodie for under $100. But even that has carbon fiber landing gear and the battery packs are almost as long as the antenna. I don't have any extra RX for mine so I haven't taken it out to the slope yet. And the 6102 retrofit looks really tempting since the 6102 has a lot nicer program than the stock DX6... But what I really want is a 10X spektrum Yes, I really do have stuff that isn't a sailplane. There is not much thermal activity just before sunset in the middle of the winter so the electric powered thermal in the nose will have to do for flying in the back yard. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Anyone have any field reports on the new Spektrum DX6. Possible for the slope? Looks promising. Great price. Excellent choice for Park flyers. Sorry if I have I not been paying attention? Did I miss any discussion on RCSE? Steve Meyer RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
I've seen them flown in a golf dome when there were 10 - 15 other aircraft in the air, some on 72 mhz and some on 2.4 ghz and I've flown one in a domed football stadium in a similar situation. I doubt that the RF environment could be worse on the slope that in a golf dome or a domed football stadium; no apparent problems were experienced in either setting. As I see it, the biggest 'problem' with using one in a glider is that the receiver has two antennae, each 3.75 inches in length that should be kept at right angles to one-another. On the typical flat foam model flown indoors the receiver is attached to the side of the fuselage and the antennae simply hang out in the breeze; on a slope glider with the receiver contained within a rather slim fuselage, proper orientation of the antennae could present a problem. Regards, Bob Johnson Fond du Lac, WI Anyone have any field reports on the new Spektrum DX6. Possible for the slope? Looks promising. Great price. Excellent choice for Park flyers. Sorry if I have I not been paying attention? Did I miss any discussion on RCSE? Steve Meyer RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 09:08:45AM -0600, Bob Johnson wrote: | As I see it, the biggest 'problem' with using one in a glider is that the | receiver has two antennae, each 3.75 inches in length that should be kept at | right angles to one-another. Apparantly each antenna is for a completely seperate RX on a different 1 MHz channel (but being spread spectrum, these channels can be shared with others), so if one gets a good signal and one doesn't, you're still good. So having them at right angles will give you a better chance of picking up at least one signal for any given orientation, but even having them both at 180 degrees (i.e. straight) wouldn't be any worse than a 72 MHz RX with a perfectly straight antenna (which is pretty common.) Bigger problems that I see are that the range is limited (though they haven't really said just how limited -- but from what I've heard it's somewhere between 1000 and 3000 feet) and that if you have a carbon fiber fuselage, getting the antenna out of the fuse might be difficult. Note that the limited range might very well exasberate any sub-optimal antenna orientations. Also, being that it's 2.4 GHz, I'd strongly suggest against putting any 2.4 GHz transmitters into your plane -- like any telemetry or video transmitter. Even if the exact frequencies used differ, I'd still expect it to desense the RX and reduce the range even more. I've never used one of the systems myself, but from what I've seen they work fine. The TX is a pretty basic computer radio, and there's only six channels to work with so using it with a full house glider will probably mean giving up some things, but I'll bet they're just the thing at the slope with simpler planes. They'd also be nice for situations where you have what looks like a great slope or site, but it's only a mile away from an established club and so you don't really dare flying there with traditional equipment. They need to hurry up and get a 8+ channel system with full range and a more featured transmitter (either that or modules for existing radios.) It would be like a license to print money ... -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] My favorite kind of wild animal is on a plate. --Homer Simpson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Should be fine on the slope. I flew my buddy's in a easystar to 1500' AGL (RAM2 varified) and about 1800' down range, no glitches no worries, solid as a rock. There is a great thread worth looking at on RC groups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817In fact, I've had a chance to wiggle the sticks on a 6102 converted to the Spectrum, folks are running with it.On 1/25/06, Doug McLaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 09:08:45AM -0600, Bob Johnson wrote:| As I see it, the biggest 'problem' with using one in a glider is that the| receiver has two antennae, each 3.75 inches in length that should be kept at | right angles to one-another.Apparantly each antenna is for a completely seperate RX on a different1 MHz channel (but being spread spectrum, these channels can be sharedwith others), so if one gets a good signal and one doesn't, you're still good.So having them at right angles will give you a betterchance of picking up at least one signal for any given orientation,but even having them both at 180 degrees (i.e. straight) wouldn't beany worse than a 72 MHz RX with a perfectly straight antenna (which is pretty common.)Bigger problems that I see are that the range is limited (though theyhaven't really said just how limited -- but from what I've heard it'ssomewhere between 1000 and 3000 feet) and that if you have a carbon fiber fuselage, getting the antenna out of the fuse might bedifficult.Note that the limited range might very well exasberate anysub-optimal antenna orientations.Also, being that it's 2.4 GHz, I'd strongly suggest against putting any 2.4 GHz transmitters into your plane -- like any telemetry orvideo transmitter.Even if the exact frequencies used differ, I'dstill expect it to desense the RX and reduce the range even more.I've never used one of the systems myself, but from what I've seen they work fine.The TX is a pretty basic computer radio, and there'sonly six channels to work with so using it with a full house gliderwill probably mean giving up some things, but I'll bet they're justthe thing at the slope with simpler planes. They'd also be nice for situations where you have what looks like agreat slope or site, but it's only a mile away from an establishedclub and so you don't really dare flying there with traditionalequipment. They need to hurry up and get a 8+ channel system with full range anda more featured transmitter (either that or modules for existingradios.)It would be like a license to print money ...--Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]My favorite kind of wild animal is on a plate. --Homer SimpsonRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring-request@airage.com.Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
