[RCSE] Scale Kits
Does any one know where I could get a decent 5m Scale kit of a Cirrus, SB 9 maybe a Ka 6E I'm looking for a good TDer. I could use plans if there good but would like a kit. Looking for new winter project. I used to be able to call John for this type of info. But since he disappeared I do not know who to talk to. -- Ken York County Soaring Lighthorse Team YCS Silence is Golden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale plastic models
While doing some online shopping for my son who models armored vehicles, I discovered a source for plastic scale models. Look at www.squadron.com and search on gliders. You'll find a great selection and even a Horten wing. The place fills their orders promptly as well. Why work from a three view and photos when you can work from a 3D model? Looking seriously at a BV-40, Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Scale plastic models
COOL, Jim you always find the good stuff online! I sure would like an r/c scale model of this model with this paint scheme: http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=CRG025 At 02:13 PM 12/3/2005, Jim Deck wrote: While doing some online shopping for my son who models armored vehicles, I discovered a source for plastic scale models. Look at www.squadron.com and search on gliders. You'll find a great selection and even a Horten wing. The place fills their orders promptly as well. Why work from a three view and photos when you can work from a 3D model? Looking seriously at a BV-40, Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Scale plastic models
Jim Deck thought I might have to scratch build, but if I could get one of these... http://www.tmrcsailplanes.com/franklin-ps2-model.html And then paint it in this scheme... http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Garber/747.htm http://www.gastrucks.com/20684.jpg I would have one very cool vintage scale sailplane. The project is whirling around my head now. At 02:24 PM 12/3/2005, James V. Bacus wrote: I sure would like an r/c scale model of this model with this paint scheme: http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=CRG025 Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] SCALE AEROBATICS next weekend
Just a reminder that we will have an Introductiob to Scale Aerobatics for Scale Sailplanes and PSS Models at Eagle Butte next Sunday. See Mid Columbia Soareres site for details. Thanks, Guy http://mcs.rchomepage.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Scale Aerobatics at Eagle Butte
John, Check the link again and look for event announcement then Introduction. I am keeping the event intentionally simple so we can interest newcomers and also get more experienced aerobatic flyers to demonstrate the capability of Scale models performing. Hopefully we have good participation and Mid Columbia will want to continue the event. That is where you come in! Come over and fly! Eagle is a wonderful place to do turn around aerobatics. If Eagle is working there won't be any need to thermal to altitude! Come out and fly! http://mcs.rchomepage.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale Aerobatics at Eagle Butte
Less than a month to go! An introduction to Scale Aerobatics will be held at Eagle Butte Washington March 20. This is a fun intro level event with room for beginners and experts to try aerobatics with scale sailplanes and PSS models. See this link for details. http://mcs.rchomepage.com/ Guy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Scale Aerobatics at Eagle Butte
Guy: On the website I see a slope combat event listed for that date? Also, just curious how you plan to do scale aerobatic routines on a slope. I suppose it is possible if you limit the maneuvers to horizontal figures, and or count on thermaling to altitude first? How will you define the box? I think it is a great idea in theory, because no one is doing it. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: GuyR [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:49 AM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Scale Aerobatics at Eagle Butte Less than a month to go! An introduction to Scale Aerobatics will be held at Eagle Butte Washington March 20. This is a fun intro level event with room for beginners and experts to try aerobatics with scale sailplanes and PSS models. See this link for details. http://mcs.rchomepage.com/ Guy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale Aerobatics on the slope - yep!
At 04:32 PM 2/24/05 -0500, John Derstine wrote: Guy: On the website I see a slope combat event listed for that date? Also, just curious how you plan to do scale aerobatic routines on a slope. I suppose it is possible if you limit the maneuvers to horizontal figures, and or count on thermaling to altitude first? How will you define the box? I think it is a great idea in theory, because no one is doing it. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, After the first Soar Utah (1993), our club (http://silentflyer.org/) has held a scale aerobatic routine competition at each Soar Utah, on the slope (Point of the Mountain, Utah). We've intentionally relaxed the format to get more participation as well as maintaining a spirit of low pressure fun flying. We've adopted a format loosely based upon the AMA rule book (15.1.Task A1). In addition, a K factor (level of difficultly multiplier) has been incorporated in the judging. It is great fun to see superbly skilled, scale pilots showing signs of nervous pressure when thrown into this format. After a decade of using this format, and getting favorable input, we continue to use it. We separate the sailplanes into to three classes: Modern, Vintage (pre-1957), and PSS so that each pilot is competing against similar planes/pilots. So, someone has been doing it for more than 10 years and it works. Come out to the next Soar Utah (2006), which is held every even year, and you can see the event as well as fly in it. Tom Hoopes - ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- Hoopes Designs - Taking the hassle out of wing wiring harnesses http://www.hoopesdesigns.com
[RCSE] scale pilots
Hi All! I got some scale pilot dummies in 1/3.5 and 1/4 scale they have been made for special order to fit style of 50's and 60's but could be used to any glider between 1/4-1/3 scale. if they would become popular I might try to have more of them in the future. There is only few left in each of this two sizes Thanks for a band Zbigniew Michalczyk The Soaring Little Fleet of Poland http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2qbfc/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale Aerobatics Event at Eagle Butte
Scale Aerobatics fun fly. Want to see those beautiful scale and PSS models perform? Come out and have some fun at our Introduction to Scale Aerobatics event March 20th in the Tri-Cities Washington. This area has some of the best slope soaring locations in the world including Eagle Butte. The format is beginner friendly but we also encourage more experienced scale aerobatic flyers to participate as we want to learn more by experiencing the performance potential of scale sailplanes. We want to avoid the complications and challenges pointed out in John Desterine's post. Rather than arguing about which maneuvers to perform and how perfectly they need to be set up, we have focused on simple maneuvers and elemental scoring plus some options to attempt more difficult maneuvers. It's not a contest! It's an opportunity to gain some experience and hopefully encourage participation in this type of flying. Want to have some fun and fly and watch these beautiful birds perform come on out! See the Columbia Soarers web site for details. Also see HKM-USA ASW 27 video for inspiration. Come out, bring your scale model and positive attitude and have some fun. We will also be doing some aero- tow aerobatics later this summer in North Idaho so contact me if you have an interest in that. http://mcs.rchomepage.com/ http://www.hkm-usa.com/products.htm Guy Russo RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - part two
Hi John, Thanks very much for the extensive review - VERY appreciated (especially on a list with such a high level of noise). I think I have a better idea of what would be involved now. I'll chat with some of my pattern friends to see what their interest level would be. My gut feeling is that a guy coming off of an F3A machine would have more interest that someone obsessed with big control surfaces and hanging on the prop. The reason I asked was that out club now has a couple of working tugs, and hopefully by the end of this season there will be someone else to fly them (ie. not me). That means I can actually get a scale sailplane again :) I've always loved the look and performance of the Roedel Fox (there's one in our club), and was curious if I could eventually do something competitive with one (or something similar). I enjoyed flying an electric-powered UltraStick 120 Lite that served as our tug for two years, but since that's gone gas, I wouldn't feel as comfortable fun-flying it at the sailplane club anymore (gas is really just for towing there). As a result, if I wanted to fly an aerobatic machine again at that club I either need to get another big electric, or an aerobatic sailplane. I'm leaning towards the latter :) Unfortunately this is all academic for the next few months, since I have some UAV work to complete (darn Transport Canada is making life difficult). Cheers, Adam -Original Message- From: John Derstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:54 PM To: Adam Till (Cal); Soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - part two In the meantime Pete George and I made an attempt to modify the Scale Event at the NATs (2002 rules cycle I think) to emphasize the flying aspect and deemphasize the Petty arcane scale judging part. We, in three years managed to pass the revised scale event which in our minds was written in such a way as to not only encourage more general participation at the NATS event, but that this format could easily be made a scale aerobatic competition at the local level by selecting aerobatic planes as the only type competing. Flying maneuvers were to be consistent with the full scale prototype, and pilots and or CD's were free as is always the case, to modify the format within the rules to hold a local scale competition with emphasis on aerobatics. Well this effort has been hashed and rehashed and the event fizzled in spite of our efforts. It seemed that most scale pilots in the US simply had no interest in formal competition or lots of rules. The ISSA discussion was influenced by Pete Goldsmith's effort to perhaps include an informal aerobatic competition at the first JR Aerotow. The Result of that discussion was endless arguing on the part of some, insisting on their form of Aresti patterns rather than adopt the German figures that were already established, were readily available, not too difficult for the intermediate sailplane pilot, and published on the internet for anyone to copy and practice. It became obvious as the discussion went on that many scale guys just did not want to go through the hassle associated with organizing a competition. The final analysis remains that there is little interest in such serious competition among scale sailplane flyers. The TOC guys showed a little initial interest, but for whatever reason, time most likely, did not constitute a new contingent of scale sailplane acro flyers. John Diniz and Pete George even performed at the break at one of the last TOC competitions. I think there is potential for this someday in the U.S. The format needs to be relaxed enough to be fun for ordinary weekend pilots, yet challenging enough, and organized in such a way as to establish a standard and attract skilled pilots as well. Classes for non scale, scale acro planes, and perhaps vintage scale might draw a larger cross section. XCscale seems to be the next trend, and hopefully, it might be a more accessible format for flying scale sailplanes and competing. I left out tons of info, and hopefully did not raise too many hackles out there. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Adam Till Cal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 7:45 PM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - Current State of Affairs? Hi all, Are there are any glider aerobatic competitions scheduled for North America in 2005? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - Current State of Affairs?
Hi all, Are there are any glider aerobatic competitions scheduled for North America in 2005? I found an interesting, if dated, discussion on the subject on the ISSA website, and was curious what the current state of affairs is? Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - part 1
This might get a little long. Robin Lehman and I went to Germany in 1998 to attend but not compete in the DMFV Akrocup. Pretty much we were awed by what was going on there, 40% scale acro sailplanes competing in a very well organized format which gave little ground to what IMACC was doing in the US with power scale aerobatics. The judging, the rules were/are very well defined and organized. Pilots ranged in age from 12-40+ The 12 year old boy competed with a very small Fox and was cheered and encouraged by the adult competitors. It was an eye opener to what large scale aerobatic sailplanes were capable of. I shot video of the whole event including several routines. When we got home I produced a video in combination with our Elmira aerotow and called it Ultimate scale Soaring. The video is long out of circulation, but we were convinced that this would be the next great sailplane event in the U.S It wasn't. Several attempts were made to organize similar events in the U.S on a national level, not just a few folks looping and rolling at a LOCAL VENUE. Robin tried in vein to organize informal events at several established aerotow events. There was little interest, and that in combination with the huge distances separating the few pilots capable of even completing a routine with a sailplane, made it difficult. Pete Goldsmith got involved with scale soaring along the way, met Robin at one of these events and was excited about it. He felt the TOC crowd would be a perfect audience for new blood, and certainly these pilots had the skills to not only complete the routines but excel. Continued Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - part two
In the meantime Pete George and I made an attempt to modify the Scale Event at the NATs (2002 rules cycle I think) to emphasize the flying aspect and deemphasize the Petty arcane scale judging part. We, in three years managed to pass the revised scale event which in our minds was written in such a way as to not only encourage more general participation at the NATS event, but that this format could easily be made a scale aerobatic competition at the local level by selecting aerobatic planes as the only type competing. Flying maneuvers were to be consistent with the full scale prototype, and pilots and or CD's were free as is always the case, to modify the format within the rules to hold a local scale competition with emphasis on aerobatics. Well this effort has been hashed and rehashed and the event fizzled in spite of our efforts. It seemed that most scale pilots in the US simply had no interest in formal competition or lots of rules. The ISSA discussion was influenced by Pete Goldsmith's effort to perhaps include an informal aerobatic competition at the first JR Aerotow. The Result of that discussion was endless arguing on the part of some, insisting on their form of Aresti patterns rather than adopt the German figures that were already established, were readily available, not too difficult for the intermediate sailplane pilot, and published on the internet for anyone to copy and practice. It became obvious as the discussion went on that many scale guys just did not want to go through the hassle associated with organizing a competition. The final analysis remains that there is little interest in such serious competition among scale sailplane flyers. The TOC guys showed a little initial interest, but for whatever reason, time most likely, did not constitute a new contingent of scale sailplane acro flyers. John Diniz and Pete George even performed at the break at one of the last TOC competitions. I think there is potential for this someday in the U.S. The format needs to be relaxed enough to be fun for ordinary weekend pilots, yet challenging enough, and organized in such a way as to establish a standard and attract skilled pilots as well. Classes for non scale, scale acro planes, and perhaps vintage scale might draw a larger cross section. XCscale seems to be the next trend, and hopefully, it might be a more accessible format for flying scale sailplanes and competing. I left out tons of info, and hopefully did not raise too many hackles out there. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Adam Till Cal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 7:45 PM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - Current State of Affairs? Hi all, Are there are any glider aerobatic competitions scheduled for North America in 2005? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale
Looking for a new or used scale sailplane6 meter and up molded or bagged obechee other than DG 600 , 800, Nimbus or any EMS. . Dealers invited. Pls reply direct. Mike
Re: [RCSE] Scale fighters at Visalia
IIRC You can read volumes about these planes on RCGroups e-zone forums. = --- Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky La Habra Heights, California Madam, there's no such thing as a tough child -- if you parboil them first for seven hours, they always come out tender. - W.C. Fields What wretched scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch? - W.C. Fields RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale fighters at Visalia
Could someone provide details on the 2 small scale WWII fighters flying Friday or Saturday after hours? They were very cool and quiet! Thanks again CVRC. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Scale fighters at Visalia
On 10/8/04 18:06 Paul Emerson wrote: Could someone provide details on the 2 small scale WWII fighters The details are that they both crashed within seconds of each other. Very impressive. Kudos to Larry Jolly and Craig Greening for the superb demonstration of synchronized crashing!!! These are sold by Hobby Lobby. I believe Larry said they were the Alpha Models brand. Appeared to fly very well (that is until they impacted Mother earth!!) Gotta get one soon!! Love the FW190 ~~~ Bill Malvey RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale Soaring Medal Results page
I just published a page in Excel providing the results for the Scale Soaring Gold Medal Program. So far I have results for Visalia Scale Meet, I will be adding Los Banos and the Muncie Aerotow as soon as I get them. I have made catagories for type of sailplane flown, I don't expect to have this information provided by default. If you flew in any of these events, medaled, and would like the type of scale sailplane you flew and its size listed, email me. I may add some interactive features and macros later as time permits. In theory one could sort records by event, pilot, or any other parameter. These are not functional at this time. John Derstine http://www.scalesoaring.com Results link here: http://www.scalesoaring.net/goldmedalscalesoaring.htm RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale Spoilers
Check out Hobby Lobby they have them! http://www.hobby-lobby.com/spoilers.htm Gregory Vasgerdsian RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale placards and instruments avail. at Glider Graphics!
Hi all, I wanted to let you all know that I now have high resolution instruments and cockpit placards for 1/4, 1/3.5, and 1/3 scale sailplanes available on the Glider Graphics website! These are available as placards only, instruments only, or save when you buy them together! They are very reasonably priced, and the placards are ACTUAL placards used in Grob and DG sailplanes. Anyone interested in 1/5 or 1/6 scale versions of these, let know and I can make them available. Thanks again for the bandwidth, Tim Vandenheuvel Glider Graphics http://www.cafepress.com/glidergraphics _ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale at Wood Crafters
We now have 16 entries in the Wood Crafters Scale event. I believe this tops the number of scale entries in the Soar Nats or any other woody scale event. Hugh Stock's glass fuse with wood built up flying surfaces kits were the big thing back then, but we will be seeing mostly wood construction on some very old designs. Several of the entrants are bringing several scale planes and we will be flying scale all for four days. We have 68 overall entries in the four day WC event, 50 of them are signed up for the Wood Crafters Soar In Championships. Everyone should be glad this is happening, because much of the new blood to rc soaring will come from guys starting with a woody. I know a few BOT arf's will be with us, but haven't herd of someone coming with the Gentle Lady arf. Two of the easiest ways for newcomers to get into sailplanes. Does your club have one or more designated flight instructors the newbies can go to for help ? Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.comHome of Wood Crafters
[RCSE] Scale Ship Wanted.........
Looking for a nice RTF scale ship, like a DG-600, ASH, LS-4 etc in the 3M range. Email me off line. Thanks! Jim RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale articles
I have seen 1 of 4 articles by Chris Williams on building scale wood sailplanes. I would like copies of the rest. They are found in Silent Flight magazines volume 7/issue 3, 7/4 (reproduced on the web), 7/5, and 7/7. I think they are from around 1998. I haven't been able to find back issues, and AMA does not have these in their archives. I will pay for copies and postage, or let me know if the magazines are for sale. I could also scan and return. Scott Hinckley Riverton, Utah RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale?
Greetings! I see lots of people compare TD/F3J/F3B to scale. I am a full scale glider pilot.. In the past I have given glider intro rides. Lots of them. There is no points for anything! Yes you have to land at the field preferably! And I can land and stop at the same spot everytime. Gliders are equipped to land very well. They also have wheel brakes that work very well. This is simple energy management. That is basically what flying is all about! When a pilot in a TD contest can't make it back to the tape? Energy management! When a pilot approaches the landing tape with good conditions into the wind, and has lots of speed and DORK's it? Energy management! To stay up in soft conditions? Energy management! In full scale competition they have lots of points similar to our point system. They get points for speed and distance. Not for landings! But they do have to land back at the field. Thats a task in it's self concidering the distance they traveled. I do have question's about R/C scale meets. What do they do? Are there any points? Why do most of the tow planes look like a giant square fuselage with a park bench wing on it? I have never seen a real tow plane like this! So you have this beautiful three thousand dollar glider towed up with a thing that doesn't look like anything! I have watched several video's of launches and landings.. Real tow planes can't tow straight up! Again not scale! And 99% of the glider landings were very sketchy.. Lots of bouncing, ground looping, rolling off the runway into the rough. And several breaks on landing... I guess I don't get it? It's suppose to be scale! It doesn't look like scale! Well the only thing that looks scale is the glider. And there were a few nice looking tow planes.. But very few! Thanks for the thread! Cheers Charlie RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Scale Dihedral Question...
Hi Stan, I did some work on a scale ship (5M), and I settled on a solid carbon rod from CSTSales(.com) around .75 inches (sleeved in alum to protect from dings). If you want to do some aerobatics, this is as small as I'd consider. I made my joiner tube from 3 pieces of brass tubing, 1 that went thru the body to the end of the root ribs, then 1 each in the wing to a depth of about 10 inches, past a subrib. I worked out the dihedral in the angle between the root and subribs. A lot of this depends on the weight of your ship, and if you're going to aerotow it vs winching it. You've identified your ship as aerobatic, that's tougher than just thermal. Less than 25 lbs will be considered 'light', and that will simplify things. If you can get in touch with some of the other scale guys out there, they will be able to give you some more ideas / size suggestions - the joiner / spar are the heart of your ship, make them right. I found a VERY helpful group of scale builders out there, hope you do too. Good luck, Brent RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale Dihedral Question...
I'm building a new ship from an old fuselage. I know the airfoil, chord, etc. I am in an quandry as to the joiner construction area. What I want is an standard size aluminum tube joiner (probably from Gator R/C) that is straight. I don't think a pre-bent joiner will go through the fuselage due to width (but willing to listen). Right now 7/16 (9/16 with phenolic tubes) X 8 is about as big as I can get, assuming a 3 degree dihedral per wing panel (6 degree's total). I have top/bottom spruce spars (36 long) with shear webs as well. I feel that this is too small of a joiner. Almost forgot the span is 4.5 meters. Wing is to be covered in Obeechi. Weight will be average (whatever that means). I would like the plane to be strong enough to be mildly-aerobatic. Looking for input, 1) reduce dihedral (plane less stable, but what do most scale ships use) to 4 or 3 degrees total? 2) remove spruce spars and go with root rib/sub rib and add CF unidirection (full-span)? 3) go with a pre-bent joiner tube? 4) switch to a CF rod with approx. 7/16 dia? Steel rod (weight consideration **)? 5) switch to a glass laminate instead of obeechi? (really would like to stay with the obeechi) I realize that there is no one correct answer so I really am fishing for ideas/experience here! I really would not like to have $300 in the wing by going with full chord/span CF/Glass. +Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale at 2003 NATS
OK, now that I'm home and caught up with LSF backlog, I'd like to make a few observations and suggestions regarding the Scale event. A fair amount of noise was generated prior to and during this event about the small number of competitors and this event getting 2 whole days. Well, in a moment of weakness, I agreed to be a scale judge, so I observed the event at very, very close range. Here are some observations: - Though the number of entrants was low (7), the quality of entrants was not. Take a look at the excellent pictures Sheldon shot ( http://www.jimbacus.net/soaring/nats2003/ss_scale/index.htm ) and see for yourself. I can assure you that the competition at the scale site was as fierce as at the F3J event taking place simultaneously. - Aero-towing puts a whole new dimension on scale. Really large models can be towed and perform just like the real thing. - There will probably never be a huge number of scale entries. Hey, these aren't checkbook models - a lot of research, craftsmanship, elbow grease, ingenuity, and even cleverness go into preparing the model, documentation, and flight plan. This type of modeling, like F3B, will only appeal to a dedicated few. Due to the relatively small number of entries (although it was more than I can remember in a long, long while), there was some talk along the lines of Well, Scale had its chance and didn't deliver a large number of entries so that's the end of Scale at the NATS. Based upon what I saw this year, deleting Scale would unfairly ignore a small but vital part of the hobby. Scale guys research, build, and fly. Therefore, I would toss the following suggestion out for discussion. Retain the Scale event, but fly it on two occasions after the rounds for a day's event are finished. There's plenty of pre-mosquito time available. Yes, it might take a few frequencies and maybe a few spectators away from HLG but HLG is NOT an official event. Why two occasions? The first occasion would include the static judging and the two occasions would give the scale pilots a real chance to fly and demonstrate the products of their efforts. With most scale pilots now aerotowing, there's no big setup time involved though perhaps a single winch might be needed like this year so the logistics would not be daunting. Impressed by what I saw, Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Scale at 2003 NATS
At 07:30 PM 7/31/2003, Jim Deck wrote: Yes, it might take a few frequencies and maybe a few spectators away from HLG but HLG is NOT an official event. Do you mean HLG Golf? Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale soaring at Torrey last Wed
I was flying my large scale ASW-20 at Torrey on Wednesday, and was wondering if anyone took pictures. I would sure like to have pics of my ship taken from the cliff, kind of hard to take pics and fly at the same time. Mark Navarre -
RE: [RCSE] scale plans?
try www.vth.de it's a german site but they have lots of scale plans for powered and unpowered flight. If you search for Engl. Sprache or just sprache you'll get all the english plans. -Original Message- From: Douglas, Brent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Mon 25 November 2002 06:48 To: Soaring Subject: [RCSE] scale plans? Hi all, Anyone have a good source for scale glider plans? All I've found is SE Modeler, and they are mostly too small. I'm looking for 1/4 scale, built up - I am leaning towards Bob's documentation, but that means scaling all up manually, and if there are good plans out there already, I'd prefer that. Thanks in advance, Brent RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] scale kits
A new shippment of Rödel kits is just in. ten kits and some accessories. The Rödel kits have been upgraded and now include precision CNC cut ply parts such as the rudder post and servo platforms cut specifically for JR servos (others fit as well). The 3.2 meter Ka6e is a glass fuse with all CNC cut plywood scale ribs and bulkheads. The folowing are in stock I have English insytructions for the Fox and Ventus. 3.2 meter Ka6e 3.75 meter Fox 4.8 meter Ventus 2c servo boxes, wheels, retracts, canopy latches, aileron horns, and tow releases in stock and available for each model. regards, john Endless Mountain Models [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.scalesoaring.net/EMM/rand.htm RD# 3 Box 336 Gillett PA 16925 570-596-2392 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Scale articles on line
In case no one has yet visited, Pete George and Tom Pack are writing scale columns for the new lift zone E-zine,(son of E-zone). They are just getting started, but it is a good sign for scale soaring. They also have a scale disscussion group. http://www.liftzone.com/ John Derstine Endless Mountain Models RD# 3 Box 336 Gillett PA 16925 570-596-2392 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] scale stuff for sale
I have the following items for sale. I will accept offers or trade for r/c sailboat stuff. Prices do not include UPS shipping from Tulsa, OK. Yes, the Blanik can be shipped UPS for less than $50. Dg-600 fuse. Fits wings about 140. Very light and strong. West System and glass. $125 B-4 fuse, 1/5 scale, wings 100, includes canopy. Painted white $125 Neither have been built. 1/6 scale Swift, span around 72. This plane has been flown, the fuse was cracked and has been fixed. Very fast and acrobatic. I believe this was a Ripo kit. glass fuse/wood foam wings. Just needs radio. Make offer. 1/5 Scale Blanik, complete. Has been test flown. Just add radio and fly. This plane is very large and pretty. Glass fuse, obeeche/foam/carbon wings with titanium joiner. It does not have a tow release installed, but I will throw one in if interested. Elevator/Rudder/Ailerons/Flaps. This is a gorgeous plane. $650. I have pictures if interested. Can accept credit card through PayPal. Kristopher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] scale towplanes
Coming in 2002 EMM will offer its own scale tow plane kits Made in the U.S.A. 1. 125 span Dehavalind Beaver. with either scale gear for aerotowing, or floats. 2. 125 span Turbo Pilatus Porter These will be EMM exclusive kits offering the following features Reinforced epoxy glass fuselages, wing tips, and cowls, primed in the mold for a perfect base for your paint. Lighter than gelcoat, and easier to paint. Balsa sheeted foam wings with 1.5 wing tube, and full length spars. Balsa sheeted foam stab, elevators, and rudder. Both will feature ailerons and flaps. all wood for kit. complete hardware instructions optional scale components will be made available. designed for 62 to 100cc gas motors. target weight 26 pounds! Beaver available first in January or February Special introductory pricing on first offering. Inquire. John Endless Mountain Models [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.scalesoaring.net/EMM/rand.htm RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Scale Pilots
John Derstine has a lot of contacts for scale accessories. Try his site or contact him. Maybe he can help you. http://www.scalesoaring.net/ Any help on ordering an Axel scale pilot would be appreciated. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Scale Pilots
On 12/18/01 7:29 PM, Everett Smiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any help on ordering an Axel scale pilot would be appreciated. Just email him. I don't have his address handy but there are links off of a couple of scale sites. I have two on order, due in February, ordered in November. Not cheap, but too cool. ~~ Bill Malvey Ladera Ranch, California RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale Soaring and EMM have moved!
The web address has changed for the Scale Soaring Page and the Endless Mountain Models page. A new look for The Scale Soaring information page, and lots of new pictures and updates on the EMM page. Scalesoaring and EMM: http:/www.scalesoaring.net EMM only: http://www.scalesoaring.net/EMM/rand.htm To celebrate the change we are offering special prices on selected EMS and HKM sailplanes. Thanks, John Derstine RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Scale????
Another minor point is that the model flys in the same air as the full scale plane. However, RE#'s are not a linear quantity. Thus, the model will usually be subjected to aerodynamic penalties which the full scale is not. (this is the main reason for the saying bigger flys better less penalties) Thus, in order to achieve pleasant flying characteristics many scale models will deviate from scale in a few areas. Some times many. Thus, the stand-off scale. You have to be prepared for some compromises. Either in the flight characteristics or in your adherence to true scale. That's challenge and the fun. Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Scale????
What are the tolerances for calling something scale? As much as it would be nice to have a reasonable standard for this, or 'tolerances' as you say, I'm pretty sure the real answer is that there is none. It's more of a what-can-we-get-away-with while-making-the-various-compromises kind of thing (fits in the box better, flies better as a model, etc. etc.) And when the alterations from scale get too embarrassing for a kit-maker, it becomes 'semi-scale' or 'stand off scale' :) Since there is no limit to 'true scale' down to using miniature versions of the exact same building techniques, machining micro-hardware to create exact match canopy latches, the whole thing is really a spectrum from 'kinda-looks-like-the-original' to 'if-you-could-just-find-a-1/5th scale-human-being-with-a-glider-rating,-he-could-get-in-and-fly-the-thing' With scratch scale building, you get to determine your own standard, which is half the fun. Also, no problem forming your own canopy without vacuum, just make a good plug, epoxy coated, sanded out fine, and then heat a sheet of PETG (tape some cardboard 'handles' to each side of the sheet to give you something to hold) over an oven burner or heat gun until soft, and then draw it down over your plug. The more you stretch, the thinner your resulting canopy will be, and you can try as many times as you need to (just a few cents a try for the material) until you get a perfect canopy. Lift, Scobie in Seattle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Scale??/ vacuum form
Not sure if you are interested, but these are kind of nice: http://www.warmplastic.com/ Tom Dale Savay wrote: This is my dilema. For a 15 meter 1/5th scale span, I calculate the wingspan to be around 117 right??? Yet some of the off the shelf ARF/ARC gliders for sale from several companies have 103 and 108 spans and are called 1/5th scale. 118.11 What are the tolerances for calling something scale? If it is built to stand-off scale requirements, if it looks like the original, when you stand way away from the model, then it's stand-off scale. Many kits fall into that area. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale Aerotow in SOCAL
Just wanted to remind folks in the Southwest that the ISSA is holding a scale aerotow event at the Pomona Valley Model Airplane Club (PVMAC) field in Chino, CA on September 21 - 23. Go Here for info: http://www.soaringissa.org/events.htm The field is wide open, surrounded by great lift and is a paved runway 800 feet long and 70 feet wide. We are just south of the Chino Airport and have gotten an altitude waiver from the FAA for the event. We are good to go up to 1,500 feet with virtually no lateral limits. The field will be closed to everything except the gliders for most of Friday (from about noon on) and all of the weekend. There is lots of room in the pit area and we'd love to see it filled. Should be a good time. ~~ Bill Malvey Ladera Ranch, California RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale page updates new pics
Posted new pic of the month, Steve Dentz's new giant toys, and new gallery of DG-800s close ups. Next week I should have the new EMS Sperber Electric 4.5 meter, and a gourgeous all glass ASW-15, with TOP AND BOTTOM SPOILERS, scale retract, all in a very friendly 4.29 meter span. The first of several molded EMS planes to come. As usuall, with everthing done including cockpit. Details available as I get them. John Derstine E-mail; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scale Soaring: http://www.Geocities.com/scalesoar RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale Soaring EMM web updates
New photo of the month on the Scale Soaring page. The ISSA Pegasus. The EMM page has updated EMS prices, new specs at a glance page, and better English translations on the Product pages. DG-800, DG-1000 next delivery available in August, Sept. HKM 4.29 meter ASW-27's coming in three weeks I will have one in stock all others are sold. John Endless Mountain Models E-mail; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/scalesoar/EMM/rand.htm John Derstine E-mail; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scale Soaring: http://www.Geocities.com/scalesoar RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale sailplanes
Have a look at the fantastic pic of Steve Dentz` ( Composite Scale Models )ASH 26 at the Mission BC Canada fun fly . www.compositescalemodels.com.au RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale kits for sale
Scale kits for sale Krick Klemm KL35 $200.00 (I know, but it would be a cool tow plane for 3m sailplanes) Graupner ASK14 $200.00 Sterling Schweizer 1-34 $225.00 Wik Kestrel $225.00 Take all for $800.00 plus shipping Thanks, David Crutchley _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Scale Retracts
FWIW. Some pictures and text of when I installed a retract in a Graupner Discus 2b. http://www.users.qwest.net/~slickraft/asmd2_1.htm * Multiplex sells a retract unit that I believe is designed to fit the ASH26 and is reasonably priced. Is this a quality unit, or would it be better to look for a Hock retract or similar brand? Multiplex unit is fine. I also like the retracts sold by Icare and Hobby Club. http://www2.jonction.net/~icare/scale_acces.htm http://www.hobbyclub.com/framespage.htm * How are these units attached internally to the fiberglass airframe to provide rigidity and support without adding alot of extra weight? I used shoe goo and similar flexible glues like PFM or Liquid Welder. Where possible I have tied it in to the main spar for support. * What about cutting out the wheel doors from the fuselage? How are they hinged to the fuselage in order to open and close properly with the actuation of the retract, and does this require a seperate linkage? See my photos on the above link. I prefer the small nylon hinges to any other method I have tried. I use very small springs or rubber bands to close the doors. * Will a typical retract assembly require a special retract servo or will a standard size servo suffice? I prefer a 180 degree dedicated retract servo. * Are there any "How To" books, online articles or websites detailing installation of retracts in scale fiberglass sailplanes? I think John Derstine's site might have some info also. http://www.Geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/5739/ Dave Wenzlick Mesa AZ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale Visibility
How can I enhance the visibility of my (currently) all white 3m Discus without violating the scale aesthetic? (the other) Dave in Berkeley, California RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale vs Competition
Hi all I was looking around for some info regarding a scale vs competition ships. I cannot seem to take my eyes off of those scale type ships! The Icare DG800 or Duo Discus, these are alot more appealing to me than the flying pencil types. Not that there's anything wrong with them it's just, well, if I am going to drop $600, It's gotta look like a dream. Enough ramblin', my questions are, 1) What are the major differences between them? 2) If we say wingspan and airfoil are the same (roughly), are they going to be completely different to fly? I am not currently flying competively, but may consider in the future say F3J. 3) Will the scale type ship be competitive? I also am leaning towards a foam/sheeted instead of full molded as I have no experience with composites. 4) I also noticed that the majority of companies that sell scale all say that airtow is recommended,true? I would like to hi start mainly. I hope that I have not asked a question that has already been answered. I would like to hook up with someone out there that has this type of sailplane. Any suggestions regarding plane choice would also be appreciated! Thank You for Your Time Mike Berard RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Scale vs Competition try Multiplex DG 600
Mike, There is a great deal of difference between scale and competition style thermal models. If you study the 2 types you will soon see that there is a big difference in proportions. Where the spans are similar you will notice that the aspect ratio is almost double on the scale ship. With the higher aspect ratio the scale model has a higher wing loading. Higher wing loading yields higher takeoff and landing speeds. I don't recommend a high start for a scale ship unless it is very light. If you really want a scale ship, slope, winch, or aero tow is more appropriate for launching. Multiplex has a new model that looks pretty good, The DG 600 comes in at about 7 pounds and has a span of 3.6 meters. Tell Karlton to hurry up and get them here. Larry Jolly RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] scale web page additions
I have added some new pictures on the Scale Soaring page today. The Pegasus tug page has photos of the latest addition to the tow plane family, two new versions, one with a 3-W 120, one with a ZDZ-80.Dressed with cowl and canopy. I have added a personal scale plane for sale as well, with photos. (1/3 ASW-27) John Derstine E-mail; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scale Soaring: http://www.Geocities.com/~scalesoar http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/5739/ASW-27%20sale.htm RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale model
Hi, I am curious about the scale model that can be seen in the Endless Lift II video, just after the B-24 that crashes at Torrey Pines and only for a few seconds. What is it? Thanks in advance. Juan Spain RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Scale and slope stuff for sale
Now is a good time to clear off that bench and begin a project for next spring. DG-300 1:4 scale (Thermoflugel), 142" span Gorgeuous seamless glass fuse, obeechi over foam surfaces, installed retract and tailwheel, still in kit form. Perfect floater project for winter building. $500 DG-800 1:5 scale (Gerasis), 142" span SD7037, balsa/glass/carbon over foam surfaces covered in white, FL-BB's in wings, standard servos in fuse, 1800mah, 97oz..call or e-mail for more details $500 Fox (Gerasis), 81" span RG-15, balsa/foam wings, molded rudder, solid balsa stab, HS-81's in wings, standard servos infuse, Hitec 555micro RX,1500mah, white w/red tips. Install your crystal and fly! Perfect for slope. Great condition. $300 firm. Whip60" slope racer RG-14, all carbon/blue foam one piece wing, glassed removeable v's, six 341's, 700mah. Nice for DS. Good condition. $300 firm. XC glass fuse (LJMP) 69" length, scale like canopy, fairings for plug-in wings, comes with balsa sheeted foam rudder and full flying stab. $50 firm. Orcal (French semi-scale) 142" samba/foam surfaces, tube wing joiner, full-flying stab, kit form. Interesting design. $400 Stylus programs available for the Fox, Whip, and DG-800.E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] eves. 858.586.7977 PST
