Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 12:43:01PM -0600, Steve Schneider wrote: | Speaking of jamming them and Ham bands, how many of the users of | the Pic's are using them illegally. The one that I have requires a | ham licence to use. I know the newer ones use the FRC channels, | but I can't leagelly use mine That may not be true. As long as the power and duty cycle are low enough, you can transmit on almost any frequency, including the ham bands, without a license. (There are some frequencies where the power limits are even lower (perhaps even zero, but that seems unworkable) such as on 121.5 MHz, but these are generally the exception.) I don't remember the exact limits, and I don't know what device you have so I don't know how much power it emits or what the duty cycle is. Your garage door opener and car alarm transmitters probably work under the regulations that I'm talking about too. I've got a low-end vario, that has a TX unit and a RX that has a LCD readout, and it uses the 70 cm ham band, but the power is low and it only transmits for a few miliseconds each second, so it may very well be legal to use without a license. (Alas, it's crap -- a VAM 200 RX and VAM 100 TX. The TX interferes with the RX in the plane (causing a glitch every second in every non-PCM/DSP RX I've tried, both 50 MHz and 72 MHz) and the RX range drops to about 50 feet if attached to your controller -- it desenses it too much. Sometime I'll have to open up the TX unit and see if I can improve it a bit ...) Also, if you go under the ham rules, you have to do things like identify your station every 10 minutes. I've never seen a vario that included provisions for doing this. For a video setup, you can just take a picture of your call sign, but that's not going to work on a vario. The ham band R/C rules explicitly do not require that you identify your station (and they're the ONLY exception to this that I'm aware of) but they do say this -- The station identification procedure is not required for transmissions directed only to the model craft, provided that a label indicating the station call sign and the station licensee's name and address is affixed to the station transmitter. which I would think would *not* apply to telemetry back from the model craft itself. The FCC ham band regulations do explicitly cover telemetry too, but (97.217) but the station identification requirements are not waived there. (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/ gives the ham band FCC regulations.) Ultimately, unless I've missed something, unless these ham band varios do fit under the `low power -- no license needed' rules, I'm guessing they're pretty much illegal to use, ham license or not, unless you've added something to transmit your call sign periodically. Not that the FCC is likely to care, but that's another matter entirely. I guess one would have to find out exactly how much power a specific unit transmits with, and what the duty cycle is (for mine, it seems to be around 5%, though I haven't tried to measure it beyond listening with a receiver) and then look up the limits in the regulations (and not the ham band regulations.) | therefore I can't use it at the NATS or any other major | contest. Get your technician ham license. It's easy. Or send the equipment to me :) Speaking of FCC regulations, the FCC says this of the 72/75 MHZ bands -- Radio Control (R/C) is a one-way, short distance, non-voice radio service for on/off operation of devices at places distant from the operator. The FCC authorizes your R/C unit to transmit any non-voice emission type for the purpose of (1) the operator turning on and/or off a device at a remote location, or (2) an indicating device for the operator being turned on and/or off by a sensor at a remote location. You cannot communicate voice or data in the R/C. (http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_home&id=radio_control) Somehow I doubt we're only using it for `on/off operation' of our planes. (Though I'm quite certain that this isn't how it's interpeted.) -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED], AD5RH Utility is when you have one telephone, luxury is when you have two, opulence is when you have three -- and paradise is when you have none. -- Doug Larson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I have thought about that, maybe with Slim Withman recordings? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@airage.com Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc In a message dated 1/24/2006 8:46:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No rule against "jamming" them either. :-)Unless maybe if they are on a HAM band.Steve MeyerSOAR, LSF IV That sounds great. What next? How about just using a synth module and "jam" the channel. It would bring them down quicker than waiting for them to fly into sink. That would really narrow the field , and make it easier for you to win ! Good thinking. BG Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
My system did require my license to be legal as the downlink was on the 2 meter band. I also fly my planes on ham frequencies. One problem with 'some' of the telemetry units is that they are on Europe FRS frequencies that are not legal FRS frequencies in the USA. This should not be a problem for any units imported by a distributer or sold by a retailer in the USA but can be a problem for grey market units. If you can listen to the unit on a FRS radio you bought at WallMart then it is on OK frequencies. Generally the telemetry units are more hinderance than help in a TD contest but they can be very useful for testing. michael RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Assisted soaring is going to a contest with your plane and hand the tx to DP and let him fly for you.right? Brian -- Brian Chan, Trapped in the Jungle of Bureaucratic Lead Tape and Sinking. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Steve, the FCC frowns on intentional jamming. Ham bands or not. The Pic's use the FRS portion fo the 70cm band (462 to 467Mhz set out in FCC regs [95.401(b)] and yes thats also allocated and regulated by FCC regulations. 73's Walt W5SWA From: S Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jon Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:46:31 -0600 No rule against "jamming" them either. :-) Unless maybe if they are on a HAM band. Steve Meyer SOAR, LSF IV At 04:56 PM 1/23/2006, Jon Stone wrote: > Today, I > don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the > "spirit" of the rules as they were originally > intended. The AMA soaring rules specifically state such devices are allowed. "10.1.f. Thermal Sensor Rule. Thermal sensing devices shall be permitted provided that any such device and the contestant comply with all FCC regulations and that any such device does not interfere with the conduct of the contest. No special arrangement or rearrangement of flight order, established as noted above, shall be made in consideration of such devices." http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0506Rulebook/RCsoaring.pdf RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
In a message dated 1/24/2006 8:46:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No rule against "jamming" them either. :-)Unless maybe if they are on a HAM band.Steve MeyerSOAR, LSF IV That sounds great. What next? How about just using a synth module and "jam" the channel. It would bring them down quicker than waiting for them to fly into sink. That would really narrow the field , and make it easier for you to win ! Good thinking. BG Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
On 1/24/06, Steve Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Speaking of jamming them and Ham bands, how many of the users of the Pic's are using them illegally. The one that I have requires a ham licence to use. I know the newer ones use the FRC channels, but I can't leagelly use mine, therefore I can't use it at the NATS or any other major contest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I just get confused listening to them anyway. On 1/24/06, S Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: No rule against "jamming" them either. :-)Unless maybe if they are on a HAM band. Steve MeyerSOAR, LSF IVAt 04:56 PM 1/23/2006, Jon Stone wrote:> > Today, I> > don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the> > "spirit" of the rules as they were originally > > intended.>>The AMA soaring rules specifically state such devices are allowed.>>"10.1.f. Thermal Sensor Rule. Thermal sensing devices shall be>permitted provided that any such device and the contestant comply >with all FCC regulations and that any such device does not interfere>with the conduct of the contest. No special arrangement or>rearrangement of flight order, established as noted above, shall be >made in consideration of such devices.">>http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0506Rulebook/RCsoaring.pdf RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Steve SchneiderBuffalo Grove, ILSOAR Club-- Steve SchneiderBuffalo Grove, IL SOAR Club
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
No rule against "jamming" them either. :-) Unless maybe if they are on a HAM band. Steve Meyer SOAR, LSF IV At 04:56 PM 1/23/2006, Jon Stone wrote: > Today, I > don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the > "spirit" of the rules as they were originally > intended. The AMA soaring rules specifically state such devices are allowed. "10.1.f. Thermal Sensor Rule. Thermal sensing devices shall be permitted provided that any such device and the contestant comply with all FCC regulations and that any such device does not interfere with the conduct of the contest. No special arrangement or rearrangement of flight order, established as noted above, shall be made in consideration of such devices." http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0506Rulebook/RCsoaring.pdf RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Why is it that it doesn't seem to make that much (or any) difference if you have a pic or not in serious contests. Tom Keisling, Josh Glabb, DP, JW etc. seem to win no matter what. It actually takes some skill to use a pic right. I found that I tend to fly around waiting to hear lift instead of looking at the normal conditions that usually indicate it. Like guys circling in a thermal, a hawk, swallows, a bunch of guys looking in the same direction, etc. Last contest I tried it in my Escape and had to take it out. It just wasn't helping me. I turned in marginal lift and lost altitude too many times. Turning at all is often the wrong move on certain days when minimum sink is best with a slow steady, no turn flight. T - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc In a message dated 1/23/2006 5:08:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Today, Idon't feel that the use of telemetry is in the"spirit" of the rules as they were originallyintended. Whew, I'm so glad you guys weren't around in the 60s when I was flying 400 sq. in. pylon & pattern with Orions & Taurus's. We used reeds, by pulsing spring loaded switches with our thumbs, Bonner servos were about 22 inoz of torque, and about 4" long. Elevator trim was the only trim, a 4th servo slid the elevator servo arm forward and back for trim. My point is, when Pro Line & Kraft came out with proportional radios, everyone said it was unfair to just move a stick, and the surface moved an equivalent amount, and trim was on all channels and no extra servo. People tried to kill propo for competition, but lucky for us, they didn't. That was a huge jump in technology. I laid away a Pro Line two stick right away ($650.00), and I made $500.00 per month with a wife & two kids to feed. If the screamers would have prevailed, we would not have any of this. I'm 68 now, and I mostly fly relaxed woody events , because of arguments like this. I have two JR 9303s 40 or 50 planes, and two Pics, plus lots of OFBs. So there. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
This is Gordy's best post yet, on ANY subject! tk --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I have a Picolario and have used it on occasion during the last two flying seasons. Nice tool. I found out early on that I was able to read the gliders messages quicker and easier than listening to the tones from the vario. Using this in a contest wouldn't be very helpful to me, the glider told me more info, quiet concentration is way better. That being said, the voltage monitoring has saved my ship from sure disaster during an extended flight, and it is cool to have a real measure of height. As far as making me a better pilot, nah, I'll watch my ship... John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Jo Grini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc > I see that this causes a lot of mind twisting out there. That is mostly > good > ;-) > > Maybe I should say that I did enjoy competing against pilots with varios > in > the last Nats. The ones I could see did not beat me (not easy to spot a > vario among 10 others on the launch line...). Here in Europe we dont use > varios even though we can at some contests. So the only time I have > competed > against any was at the Nats. > Bottom line is that I think it is a neat gadget like other tools but > personally I will not use it. But I respect a pilot on a learning curve to > use it. I just hope he leaves it home when he enters top 10 or something. > > Hilsen (Regards) Jojo > NEW: www.jojoen.no> -Original Message- > > From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM > > To: Soaring@airage.com > > Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc > > > > > > I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last > > WC > > in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And > > many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by > > a > > Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that > > again. > > I > > like to win by spotting the signs nature gives. > > No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the > > plane > > but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different > > Rx > > batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in > > the > > zoom. "warning, warning..." > > > > Hilsen (Regards) Jojo > > NEW: www.jojoen.no > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format > with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and > AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I see that this causes a lot of mind twisting out there. That is mostly good ;-) Maybe I should say that I did enjoy competing against pilots with varios in the last Nats. The ones I could see did not beat me (not easy to spot a vario among 10 others on the launch line...). Here in Europe we dont use varios even though we can at some contests. So the only time I have competed against any was at the Nats. Bottom line is that I think it is a neat gadget like other tools but personally I will not use it. But I respect a pilot on a learning curve to use it. I just hope he leaves it home when he enters top 10 or something. Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no> -Original Message- From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives. No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the zoom. "warning, warning..." Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] assisted soaring,etc, tonite's observations along that topic
So I went out to get some Chinese take out, I managed to get there without my Picolario and back, but not in time. My two Catahoula's had managed to seek out a rubber maid container with about 40 Cowboy cookies just made last nite and one of the best batches the little lady had ever baked. (photos available..of the dogs not the cookies). Between the two of them they ate every single cookie (Cowboy cookies were chocolate chip with oatmeal)... By the time I got home all that was left was crumbs on the floor. Now I can't tell you if they would have felt less satisfied had they used a Picolario to find that container versus just using their nose's to read the air so I guess this isn't very definitive as to that topic, cuz they looked pretty satisfied periodkind of like JB after a win with onePicolario that is, not Catahoula or Cowboy cookie. However I can tell you that I would have very much preferred not to have experienced the experiment at all. The discussion continues... and I am down to the shop building a club mate's Compulsion. Gordy
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I'd go regardless. I like using my Pic because there aren't any local pilots that can help me understand what I'm doing. I think the Pic helps me "get a reference" on what the plane is actually doing with what I'm seeing visually. I hope though that it will be a tool that can be dispensed with as I gain more of that all-important experience. Again, this is in the absence of other pilots to help. But, as Jim said, it takes flying to really gain the experience. That Pic doesn't help me a bit when it comes to putting it down where and when I want for the landing, and that's only going to come with practice, something I'm sorely in need of! -Sheldon- -Original Message- From: John Diniz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:38 PM To: Jo Grini; Soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc So,for you guys that do use Pic's and other devices: Would you not go to an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for that event? John -Original Message- From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives. No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the zoom. "warning, warning..." Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no > - Original Message - > From: "Daryl Perkins" > Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc > > >> You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry is neat stuff, >> and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest days. But it has no place in a >> contest. >> >> Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn about your >> skill level. Use them to learn about lift. >> But leave them at home on contest days. >> >> If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing workable lift... >> what exactly are we contesting? >> >> I have my own views, and I'm not always right... >> well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that the use of these >> things in a contest setting offends me on every level. >> >> Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. >> >> 2 cents, >> >> D >> >> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
> Today, I > don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the > "spirit" of the rules as they were originally > intended. The AMA soaring rules specifically state such devices are allowed. "10.1.f. Thermal Sensor Rule. Thermal sensing devices shall be permitted provided that any such device and the contestant comply with all FCC regulations and that any such device does not interfere with the conduct of the contest. No special arrangement or rearrangement of flight order, established as noted above, shall be made in consideration of such devices." http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0506Rulebook/RCsoaring.pdf RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
YEA, What He Said Darn it !!! Besides, its the only time that Richard will talk to me, when he is bi**hing about my Vario... LOL Get em JB CJ --Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- From: "James V. Bacus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If you all put your blinders on, maybe all this new technology will go away... > > NOT > > The world progresses, things change, adapt or be left behind. > > The strong feelings of some of my pilot friends and others in this hobby > wanting things to stay the way they were is really wearing on me. I've > been basically accused of buying my wins and cheating with new technology > season after season for years now, even as I play totally within the > rules. I fly the "cheater" planes, I fly the "cheater" varios, so > obviously that must mean I have no skill or talent so I have to buy it. I > am so sick of hearing peoples excuses for not trying hard enough to compete > at TD contests, at my reputations expense. If you want to play at the top > level of TD comps you are going to have spend some money, you are going to > have to understand the new technologies whether it be the latest model > design, the latest computer radio and digital servos, or the latest > telemetry technology and see if it works for you. You are going to have to > practice, you are going to have to spend the time and money to travel to > out of state contests, and you are going to have to concentrate on what you > are doing and work at it, HARD, to be successful. It doesn't come easy > from what I have experienced, I have been humbled many times by far more > skilled and talented pilots than myself. > > America is a technology progressive society, and it competes this way all > around me, particularly in the biotech business I am in. And I am very > successful in that arena because of the way I aggressively look at, absorb > and create new technology. I am a progressive thinker, I always want to > learn about the next new thing, I always want the advantage if it is > obtainable within the rules, I always shoot for the win, and I do it > straight up like an honest man. > > I think for our hobby to grow we have to progress, when it stagnates like > it has over the years, it's no wonder we have no new blood, and guys that > did participate for years drift away to other past times so they can > continue to learn and grow. > > You all know what to do if you want to keep things the same, make some more > rules, lock it down and stifle all this new technology. I can guarantee > the same guys will always keep winning if there are never any new angles to > play out. > > > Jim > Downers Grove, IL > Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR > AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Good points all around. I think people take different things away from a contest. Some just go for the camaraderie, some go to win, some go to see how they are doing against their peers. I personally don't think that using a Picalario puts you ahead of the rest of the pack. You still have to make the right flight decision, you still have to work the lift, and most importantly, you still have to land. However, if you had a GPS/heading lock unit that put the plane on the 100 every time...it would bother me because the real reason I go to contests is to watch grown men cry when they flip their plane on a downwind landing :-) JE -- Erickson Architects John R. Erickson, AIA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
In a message dated 1/23/2006 5:08:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Today, Idon't feel that the use of telemetry is in the"spirit" of the rules as they were originallyintended. Whew, I'm so glad you guys weren't around in the 60s when I was flying 400 sq. in. pylon & pattern with Orions & Taurus's. We used reeds, by pulsing spring loaded switches with our thumbs, Bonner servos were about 22 inoz of torque, and about 4" long. Elevator trim was the only trim, a 4th servo slid the elevator servo arm forward and back for trim. My point is, when Pro Line & Kraft came out with proportional radios, everyone said it was unfair to just move a stick, and the surface moved an equivalent amount, and trim was on all channels and no extra servo. People tried to kill propo for competition, but lucky for us, they didn't. That was a huge jump in technology. I laid away a Pro Line two stick right away ($650.00), and I made $500.00 per month with a wife & two kids to feed. If the screamers would have prevailed, we would not have any of this. I'm 68 now, and I mostly fly relaxed woody events , because of arguments like this. I have two JR 9303s 40 or 50 planes, and two Pics, plus lots of OFBs. So there. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Yep. There is no rule against practicing. LOL At 02:04 PM 1/23/2006, Pat McCleave wrote: Guys, What I think is the most unfair advantage are the guys that get to practice more than me. Them suckers beat me almost everytime (hey I get lucky once in awhile). I personally have never spent the money on any of the various Sensors since that takes away from spending money on other things that make soaring a lot more fun like beer. Oh wait, my brother always brings the beer so I guess I must spend the extra money Molded Planes and Digital Servos so at least I will look like a really good pilot at least up until after the first round scores are posted. Just my 2 cents worth. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to solve anything here. Just some random thoughts about how contests seem to be evolving. I don't think anybody is saying that a pic or telemetry is an "unfair" advantage. Anything allowable under the rules is certainly fair. What is evident in this thread is that soaring contests mean different things to different people. I know that my idea of what a soaring contest is has evolved over the years. When I started soaring, much like you today JB, it was a win at any cost mentality. Back then, I would have agreed that the use of technology to gain an advantage within the rules is the way to go... But that being said, there is no way for a rules maker/contest designer/whatever you want to call him, to foresee the evolution of technology in the years to come. Today, I don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the "spirit" of the rules as they were originally intended. A contest or competition of any type is designed to measure something. Auto race - all out speed. Football is a land aquisition game. You get the idea... but what exactly are we trying to measure with a RC soaring competition? I know what I think we are trying to measure... In my mind, we are trying to measure true soaring skills. Soaring skills to me are the ability to recognize and work lift, strong, weak... anything to make our target time. Exercise good judgment, constantly analyze and optimize our situation... What takes years and years to accomplish is learning to read the model, read the conditions, decide if we're actually climbing, staying level... etc... On every contest flight, I am constantly questioning my own judgment. That's what makes the soaring contest fun to me... am I really staying up? Am I really going to make my time? Is the lift a little better over here? Oops... doesn't look like it... but maybe The Pic eliminates all of this... Again, not saying they are unfair, cuz I could use one too, but they do take the skill out of the whole thing... These are the things that are the difference between a "Joe Novice" and a Joe Wurts. My question is, where will it all end? There is already autopilots that can be programmed to fly a model in a predesigned path. GPS's I'm sure are allowable under the rules. An autopilot and a GPS is certainly legal as long it is controlled from the ground. So you could certainly program it to fly in a constant bank angle and energy, and turn it off, come home and shoot your landing. I realize I am going extreme here, but that's what I'm talking about - where does it end? At what point does the technology available exceed the spirit or intent of the rules? And then again... what... are we really trying to measure? I personally believe that any telemetry back to the pilot is not within the spirit of a soaring competition. That's just my sentiment. Wood vs. molded... I agree there are performance differences. Would I rather drive a Ferrari or a Yugo? I could still win with the Yugo. But the Ferrari is more fun... I like high performance models. And I can't afford a Ferrari... Blaine mentions that we should design a contest that allows us to use the technology available. I whole heartily agree. You techy's have a blast. ;-) But maybe we should try to define what we are trying to measure at our little TD contests, and write the rules accordingly. that's about 8 1/2 cents worth... and I have to get some work done... ;-) Have fun guys - I was actually thinking about practicing a bit this year. That Soaring Masters thing sounds like fun. It's even more fun to climb through you guys with those things stuck in your ears... ;-) D __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Well let me throw in my .02 cents here. I have a Pic and I use it sometimes and sometimes I don't. I feel that it only helps in a very limited number of situations. Mostly when lift is marginal. Early morning first round not much lift I use it. Overcast sky with minimal surface heating I turn it on. It may not find any lift but it will help identify areas of less sink or no sink. Marginal conditions are the only time it gives me or any experienced flyer an edge. If there is good or very light lift I can find it on my own. My eyes are not so bad that I can't tell when I am in lift. I know all of the indicators of lift and use them to my advantage whenever I can. I was once confronted about using the pic at a contest. I told them that there was nothing in the rules that prohibited the use of a Pic. I also said that if they were concerned that it gave me an advantage over them to launch when I launch and follow me around while I look for lift. I didn't have any takers. By the way I finished 10th because of landing points. Anyway the Pic is off more than its on. Except for the above situations. Flame suit on. Walt RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
In a message dated 1/23/2006 2:46:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I always want the advantage if it is obtainable within the rules, I always shoot for the win, and I do it straight up like an honest man. Jim's is the "American Way". If it meets the rules, use it all. If it doesn't, then don't ! I like to fly in Woody events. There are rules for the sailplane construction, and for the TD tasks. I fly within the rules, and feel I can use anything I come up with for an advantage if it meets with the rules. I design & build my own plane combinations to be within the "rules" . Ray Hayes & others allow the pic, so if I CHOOSE to use it, I can. Jim B. fly's the other end of the TD spectrum, in that he CHOOSES to fly big molded planes, but he is still flying & building within the rules set up for the contests he goes to. Less is Best, when it comes to rules. I can afford Icons & Supras too, but I CHOOSE to build & fly the woody's, not against the molded planes, but within their own set of specifications, against other woody's, and occasionally against the molded TD planes, the woody's just don't win in a mid-air with a moldie Bill G.. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Guys, What I think is the most unfair advantage are the guys that get to practice more than me. Them suckers beat me almost everytime (hey I get lucky once in awhile). I personally have never spent the money on any of the various Sensors since that takes away from spending money on other things that make soaring a lot more fun like beer. Oh wait, my brother always brings the beer so I guess I must spend the extra money Molded Planes and Digital Servos so at least I will look like a really good pilot at least up until after the first round scores are posted. Just my 2 cents worth. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
If you all put your blinders on, maybe all this new technology will go away... NOT The world progresses, things change, adapt or be left behind. The strong feelings of some of my pilot friends and others in this hobby wanting things to stay the way they were is really wearing on me. I've been basically accused of buying my wins and cheating with new technology season after season for years now, even as I play totally within the rules. I fly the "cheater" planes, I fly the "cheater" varios, so obviously that must mean I have no skill or talent so I have to buy it. I am so sick of hearing peoples excuses for not trying hard enough to compete at TD contests, at my reputations expense. If you want to play at the top level of TD comps you are going to have spend some money, you are going to have to understand the new technologies whether it be the latest model design, the latest computer radio and digital servos, or the latest telemetry technology and see if it works for you. You are going to have to practice, you are going to have to spend the time and money to travel to out of state contests, and you are going to have to concentrate on what you are doing and work at it, HARD, to be successful. It doesn't come easy from what I have experienced, I have been humbled many times by far more skilled and talented pilots than myself. America is a technology progressive society, and it competes this way all around me, particularly in the biotech business I am in. And I am very successful in that arena because of the way I aggressively look at, absorb and create new technology. I am a progressive thinker, I always want to learn about the next new thing, I always want the advantage if it is obtainable within the rules, I always shoot for the win, and I do it straight up like an honest man. I think for our hobby to grow we have to progress, when it stagnates like it has over the years, it's no wonder we have no new blood, and guys that did participate for years drift away to other past times so they can continue to learn and grow. You all know what to do if you want to keep things the same, make some more rules, lock it down and stifle all this new technology. I can guarantee the same guys will always keep winning if there are never any new angles to play out. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Thermal sensors are NOT UNFAIR as long as they are allowed in the RULES! A FAR bigger advantage is the use of a highly engineered MOLDED aircraft. This is the area where people BUY advantage the easiest and most, in the plane. The best telemetry units for RC use cost far less than one high end sailplane kit. Personally I like the 'builder of the model' rule but that has been gone for many years and really has no chance of coming back. Right now anyone can BUY the advantage of a plane that has design, materials and cunstruction processes that are FAR beyond their abilities and that give real performance advantages on the field. All it takes is money, lots of money. I am not saying that this is bad for the sport overall just that it is reality. It is also legal under the rules so is technically FAIR. Really, to fly a TD contest takes a team. Someone had to build the plane, someone has to fly the plane, someone times the flight, someone provides launching equipment, etc. etc., it all is part of the total package. A thermal sniffer or similar device is such a tiny part of the whole that it is unlikely to make any difference at all and it is certainly NOT UNFAIR. It is really simple. If the rules allow it then it is FAIR. If the rules don't allow it then it is UNFAIR and is CHEATING. If you don't like then, don't use them. Don't want OTHER people to use them, then lobby to change the rules. Please don't stand there with your $2000+++ airplane and tell me that my $200 thermal sensor is an unfair advantage. Really! michael On 1/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I haven't flown a contest in at least 6 years, but I have to agree with > Daryl, > this is something that shouldn't be used in a contest environment. > I use to race one design sailboats and there were very tight rules about > equipment. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I just received a Zlog and a Picolario. I'm interested trying both of them out in not only sailplanes, but electrics also. I've flown with an Ace Sniffler before for XC. If I did use these items on a regular basis, I would still come to the contest; just not use them for that particular contest. gv -Original Message- From: John Diniz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:38 AM To: Jo Grini; Soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc So,for you guys that do use Pic's and other devices: Would you not go to an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for that event? John -Original Message- From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives. No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the zoom. "warning, warning..." Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no > - Original Message - > From: "Daryl Perkins" > Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc > > >> You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry >> is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest >> days. But it has no place in a contest. >> >> Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn >> about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift. >> But leave them at home on contest days. >> >> If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing >> workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? >> >> I have my own views, and I'm not always right... >> well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that >> the use of these things in a contest setting offends >> me on every level. >> >> Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. >> >> 2 cents, >> >> D >> >> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I haven't flown a contest in at least 6 years, but I have to agree with Daryl, this is something that shouldn't be used in a contest environment. I use to race one design sailboats and there were very tight rules about equipment. Everything on the boat had to be on a list of accepted MFG's. In reality, most of the guys with sensors in their sailplanes aren't threatening the big boys of soaring, but it certainly gives an advantage over the other intermadiate pilots, and in my opinion that is worse. If I had sensors in a sailplane, I would not expect to officially enter any contest, I might fly in them, but wouldn't expect my score to count if I had an unfair advantage. My $0.02 Mark Mech www.aerofoam.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:38:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would you not go to an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for that event? My point exactly John, I/we do what we feel like, WITHIN the contest rules for that day.If it's not allowed, we happily fly without one. !! BG Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
So,for you guys that do use Pic's and other devices: Would you not go to an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for that event? John -Original Message- From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives. No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the zoom. "warning, warning..." Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no > - Original Message - > From: "Daryl Perkins" > Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc > > >> You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry >> is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest >> days. But it has no place in a contest. >> >> Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn >> about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift. >> But leave them at home on contest days. >> >> If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing >> workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? >> >> I have my own views, and I'm not always right... >> well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that >> the use of these things in a contest setting offends >> me on every level. >> >> Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. >> >> 2 cents, >> >> D >> >> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives. No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the zoom. "warning, warning..." Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no - Original Message - From: "Daryl Perkins" Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest days. But it has no place in a contest. Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift. But leave them at home on contest days. If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? I have my own views, and I'm not always right... well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that the use of these things in a contest setting offends me on every level. Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. 2 cents, D RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
D, I remember that you and Mike Smith used a Pic at the Nats.. Thats right, YOU guys followed me down wind sctraching, Hey, Follow Strother, he's running a vario Thats right you used my Pic...and still kick my asreWhat fun... I can take it or leave it...its the CD's Callat this point... 8-0 CJ --Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- From: Daryl Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry > is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest > days. But it has no place in a contest. > > Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn > about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift. > But leave them at home on contest days. > > If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing > workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? > > I have my own views, and I'm not always right... > well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that > the use of these things in a contest setting offends > me on every level. > > Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. > > 2 cents, > > D > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? __ Some might view it as who is willing to spend the most money to win a contest. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: "Daryl Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "James V. Bacus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc > You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry > is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest > days. But it has no place in a contest. > > Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn > about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift. > But leave them at home on contest days. > > If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing > workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? > > I have my own views, and I'm not always right... > well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that > the use of these things in a contest setting offends > me on every level. > > Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. > > 2 cents, > > D > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest days. But it has no place in a contest. Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift. But leave them at home on contest days. If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing workable lift... what exactly are we contesting? I have my own views, and I'm not always right... well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that the use of these things in a contest setting offends me on every level. Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right. 2 cents, D __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
The only vario I used required you to drill a hole in a 1/8 inch dowel and then split it lengthwise and install two matched thermistors just touching each other in the split airway. Then you glued the dowel back together, hooked one end of the dowel to an air reservoir, and wired the two thermistors and two fixed resistors plus a trimmer as a bridge. The bridge controlled an audio oscillator that modulated a rf link to your receiver on the ground. Maynard made it sound simple at the time but it took me almost 6 months to get it working and installed in my Monteray. -- Dick Barker Port Angeles, WA - Turning HLG Around - >Daryl doesn't remember thermal sensors cause he's too young. But I never >thought "listening for lift" made a lot of sense, anyway, and have seen guys >flub around in otherwise good air cause they were listening rather than >watching. > >I still have one of the old units designed by Walt Good, which i bought in >73. I don't use it though as I got tired of it whistling in my ear. Besides, >the unit didn't discriminate very much. More trouble than it was worth. I >my opinion.Picolario's are just a variant... just more stuff to bother with. . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Absolutely. Exactly the way I feel about it. Bring it on. At 05:36 PM 10/21/2006, d. o. darnell wrote: New technology? Bring it on. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
Daryl doesn't remember thermal sensors cause he's too young. But I never thought "listening for lift" made a lot of sense, anyway, and have seen guys flub around in otherwise good air cause they were listening rather than watching. I still have one of the old units designed by Walt Good, which i bought in 73. I don't use it though as I got tired of it whistling in my ear. Besides, the unit didn't discriminate very much. More trouble than it was worth. I my opinion.Picolario's are just a variant... just more stuff to bother with. While it might be an advantage to have one (if the user is otherwise proficient) such devices, as they exist now, will probabily only distract the "average" flyer (if there are any). A positive example of technology helping is mixing in transmitters... Gyros for copters, etc... things that if not used would make multi-function ships and coptors VERY difficult to fly, and if not available, would prevent lots of flyers doing what they enjoy. Witness the growth in helicoptors since the gyro and "control boards". Since memory and microprocessors are now stamp-sized (no pun intended) and micro GPS, etc are available, it is inevitable that this technology will eventually be incorporated into our stuff. At the other extreme, we have all the those who want to fly "Purist" class OK with me, but again, a different thing all together. (Like fly-fishing versus Bass-fishing) New technology? Bring it on. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
