Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
In a message dated 2/4/00 4:30:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The last thing I am is a legend in my own mind, just a hard working guy who enjoys to fly and anything about flying, but I am very competitive when I walk out on the field of battle. >> Gellart is a meglomaniac, totally full of himself and feels that only his way is the only way. He is a fearsome sight of a man, intimidating on the soaring field of battle. No one likes the guy. except me:-) and I enjoy the look of a vicious skeg right on the tip of a sailplane. Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
> Mark, > from Daryls excellent post to yours. I have this mental picture of you. > Do you sometimes wear a pointy hat with eyeholes cut out, or a specific > armband? You must be a legend in your own mind. Klaus, I, promise that I am not a member of the klan, or any other right wing conspiratorial group, just someone who is tired of political correctness and the attitude "that because America needs to get with the rest of the world attitude." The last thing I am is a legend in my own mind, just a hard working guy who enjoys to fly and anything about flying, but I am very competitive when I walk out on the field of battle. Marc Gellart, Lima, OH RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Hey, Tim McCann has to make a living too! Skegs Rule! The landing area at the SW CLASSIC has been overseeded for the winter but it is patchy. Skegs will be both helpful and numerous. My plane will be bristling with skegs!!! Thanks Tim! Garland Hanson CASL - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mike Stump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes > Hi Daryl, > I just read your comments on skegs,etc. and I agree with most of what you > said. I am a ham and use ham frequencies, but I don't sandbag. I think > called up flight order > is something we should do at all our contests. We used to do this in our > powered > free flight planes. We also gave the pilots 3 minutes to get in the air. > This makes things a little more equal all the way around. > Best regards, > Art > > > [Original Message] > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Mike Stump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 1/31/00 9:04:51 PM > > Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes > > > > Most of you know, I've flown all over the world. The rest of the world > simply doesn't understand our way of TD flying and scoring. > > The reality is that our tasks have evolved over the years to take into > account the tiny little postage stamp flying fields we are > > required to sometimes fly from. Most pilots from other countries would > laugh histerically if they ever attended Visalia, and saw the > > little clump of grass we are required to land on downwind every year. Why > is it like this? Real estate - it is at a premium, and we > > are losing flying sites left and right. We're lucky to have the ones we > have - especially in Southern California. > > > > I hate our landing tasks, and the value put on high landing points at a > contest - but that's the way it is. Our TD contests are > > about what happens when the plane hits the ground - not about what > happens in the air. I think this is a shame, but there isn't > > enough time in the day to hold a true thermal duration event - that Joe > guy would just run out of batteries. Every one else would > > follow him around the sky. There has to be a differentiator (Is that a > word?) What will this be? Hmmm, landing? > > > > Now, skegs - again the reality of small sites, and poor flying skills. > It's very easy for the purists to argue we don't need them. > > "Sure, just learn how to land," they say. Yeah, right! If we eliminate > skegs, do you really believe that all the soaring pilots who > > already have trouble hitting the spot with skegs are going to go out and > practice now? No, they won't. They're flying for fun. What > > you've just created is making an unsafe pilot and situation MORE unsafe. > Things happen in contests that don't normally happen during > > fun flying. Everybody wants those landing points, and they're sure as > heck not going to come up short. So, they're carrying energy - > > LOTS of it. Oops, there goes my shins, your shins, and alot of leading > edges. > > > > Our landing tape - Is it absurd? Probably. But it doesn't really matter. > As long as everyone is landing on the same tape, it's > > plenty fair. It's actually more fair than the FAI tapes. I like 1 point > increments as opposed to 5 point increments. FAI tapes - You > > could drop 5 points by simply being out 1/2". We're going to a contest in > Phoenix this weekend where it will be scored at 1 point > > per inch away from the nail. Averaging 85's will win this contest. Maybe > even 80's. I do hope the purists leave their skegs at > > home, and bring a lot planes! ;-) Or at least EPP LE's. > > > > So, how do we make contests more fair in the states? I don't have the > answer to that. I do have a few ideas: > > > > 1. Eliminate sandbagging - called flight order. Give a guy 3 minutes(Or a > specified amount of time - field layout dependent) after > > he's called to hook up to the winch. One of my pet peaves is the guys who > fly on ham bands to eliminate freq. conflicts, and sit on > > the pin awaiting the lift cycles. This is an unfair advantage, and more > importantly, is just a pussy move. > > 2. When capable - try holding a man on man contest. Takes less time than > you'd think. You don't have to wait for each flight group > > to land prior to launching the next group. Can be accomplished with a > little plan
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Michael Neverdosky wrote: > How about shorter winch lines? > a 100 meter line. > Does a 100 yard line make thousands of readily available sites leap to mine? Gee, they even have the landing task set up already, between the poles, under the bar to the spot. Rich B RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Klaus What I didn't say was that serious, hard charging, full scale sailplane competition flying comes with an elevated level of risk. Off field landings in totally unfamiliar terrain (most are) and flight into extreme weather conditions (thunderstorm downburst in my case) set the stage for my fence encounters. I now compete with models instead. If I fly full size, I rent and prefer to go solo, so you are safe. Jerry Ps. I'm sure you are aware of several of the top world soaring pilots who are not with us today because of "gotchas". It does have it's hazards, and wire strikes and midairs are high on the list. MacCready once told me he hung it up after he won the Worlds because of the midair risk. I didn't feel so bad for having quit after hearing him say that. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Darryl P writes: "So, how do we make contests more fair in the states?" Well, how about reducing the emphasis on landing and creating an "approach" task? This might include flying in a narrow corridor marked by wands and streamers which would, if properly executed, land you right on target. Points off for touching a streamer or wand, etc. I really have no idea, of course. I am not a contest flyer and have absolutely no interest in competitive events ... (the other) Dave in Berkeley, California RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Most of you know, I've flown all over the world. The rest of the world simply doesn't understand our way of TD flying and scoring. The reality is that our tasks have evolved over the years to take into account the tiny little postage stamp flying fields we are required to sometimes fly from. Most pilots from other countries would laugh histerically if they ever attended Visalia, and saw the little clump of grass we are required to land on downwind every year. Why is it like this? Real estate - it is at a premium, and we are losing flying sites left and right. We're lucky to have the ones we have - especially in Southern California. I hate our landing tasks, and the value put on high landing points at a contest - but that's the way it is. Our TD contests are about what happens when the plane hits the ground - not about what happens in the air. I think this is a shame, but there isn't enough time in the day to hold a true thermal duration event - that Joe guy would just run out of batteries. Every one else would follow him around the sky. There has to be a differentiator (Is that a word?) What will this be? Hmmm, landing? Now, skegs - again the reality of small sites, and poor flying skills. It's very easy for the purists to argue we don't need them. "Sure, just learn how to land," they say. Yeah, right! If we eliminate skegs, do you really believe that all the soaring pilots who already have trouble hitting the spot with skegs are going to go out and practice now? No, they won't. They're flying for fun. What you've just created is making an unsafe pilot and situation MORE unsafe. Things happen in contests that don't normally happen during fun flying. Everybody wants those landing points, and they're sure as heck not going to come up short. So, they're carrying energy - LOTS of it. Oops, there goes my shins, your shins, and alot of leading edges. Our landing tape - Is it absurd? Probably. But it doesn't really matter. As long as everyone is landing on the same tape, it's plenty fair. It's actually more fair than the FAI tapes. I like 1 point increments as opposed to 5 point increments. FAI tapes - You could drop 5 points by simply being out 1/2". We're going to a contest in Phoenix this weekend where it will be scored at 1 point per inch away from the nail. Averaging 85's will win this contest. Maybe even 80's. I do hope the purists leave their skegs at home, and bring a lot planes! ;-) Or at least EPP LE's. So, how do we make contests more fair in the states? I don't have the answer to that. I do have a few ideas: 1. Eliminate sandbagging - called flight order. Give a guy 3 minutes(Or a specified amount of time - field layout dependent) after he's called to hook up to the winch. One of my pet peaves is the guys who fly on ham bands to eliminate freq. conflicts, and sit on the pin awaiting the lift cycles. This is an unfair advantage, and more importantly, is just a pussy move. 2. When capable - try holding a man on man contest. Takes less time than you'd think. You don't have to wait for each flight group to land prior to launching the next group. Can be accomplished with a little planning. Can also be done with only 2 - 3 winches, not optimum, but can be done. 3. Make the flight times challenging - this 3, 5, 7 crap is boring. Our planes have gotten so efficient, and the tasks haven't kept up. Who cares if nobody makes their times? It's called Thermal Duration, isn't it? Shouldn't the guy who flies the longest get the win? 4. Make the landing tasks fair - no huge landing bonus equalling 1/3 or even 1/2 of the flight time for hitting a postage stamp. That 1/2" in or out thing makes me crazy. Measure the darn things. Huge in or out doesn't make a contest more fair, it makes the contest more dependent on your TIMER'S thumb. Do I think skegs should be banned? No. I do believe they make things more safe for the majority of skill levels out there. Besides, the biggest skeg is really the nose. You eliminate skegs, people will DORK for the win. Daryl - sorry to get on my soapbox - Perkins Mike Stump wrote: > Klaus, > > unlike F3B & J, the landing zones in the USA are much smaller... the US TD > landing circle deducts 1 point from 100 for every 4 inches away from > center... what would still be 100 pts on an FAI tape could be 90 or even 89 > on a US circle (task L-4).. > > our runway landing is a strip 2-3" wide for 100 pts with 1 pt. deducted for > every inch away from the runway center zone... > > there is a difference regardless of the amount of control one has properly > learned.. > > At 09:11 AM 2/1/00 +1100, you wrote: > >What are you saying here jerry? Don't go half shares with you in a full > >size sailplane or don't go in the tandem seat with you :) > >We don't use skegs in Australia. It is up to the pilots to learn to fly > >their sailplanes properly and compensate for the landings. Are skegs > >allowed in the world champs F3J/F3B? Don't think so. > > > >Klaus
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Klaus, In the true American spirit, we do not care what the rest of the world is doing, since it is very obvious that we have the best pilots right here. It does not seem to hinder Joe or Daryl or any of the rest of the American pilots a bit at the Worlds that they fly here with skegs. Maybe the rest of the world needs to look our way and get with the program. Marc Gellart, Lima, Ohio PS. I would gladly go in half with Jerry on any aircraft. As meticulous and exacting as Jerry is, if an aircraft passes his inspect, it is fine with me... - Original Message - From: Klaus K Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes > What are you saying here jerry? Don't go half shares with you in a full > size sailplane or don't go in the tandem seat with you :) > We don't use skegs in Australia. It is up to the pilots to learn to fly > their sailplanes properly and compensate for the landings. Are skegs > allowed in the world champs F3J/F3B? Don't think so. > > Klaus Weiss > Australia > > > > Twice, when flying full size sailplanes, I wish I had the stopping power > of a > > skeg. First time I got stopped just before I hit the fence, and the > second > > time I went thru it, totalling the glider and almost taking myself out in > the > > proscess. > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
