Re: Evalution outside simulation
You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards
RE: Evalution outside simulation
What sort of procedural animation? Can it not be expressed as a simulation? Do you have an example of what you mean? gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Koch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 02:17 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.commailto:gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards attachment: winmail.dat
Re: Evalution outside simulation
also, can you just branch and set point position on those particles instead? s On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.com wrote: What sort of procedural animation? Can it not be expressed as a simulation? Do you have an example of what you mean? gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Koch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 02:17 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.com mailto:gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards
Re: Evalution outside simulation
It is simple stuff like transformations, randomizations, sin functions and all that. Problem is I am trying to reproduce the (perceived) ease of use from moGraph. In it MOST things happen in a unsimulated envoiroment, as it is a lot faster to work in this fashion. You can work and scrub through the timeline interactivly. But then it allows you to trigger simulation at some point or event, which is nice. I could even try to re-work most of my nodes to have a simulated and unsimulated version, as the cumulative effect of simulation will break most of them, as they are right now. But fact is, it is a goal to be as non-simulated as possible. I understand it is an uncommon request, a bit of overkill really, and people can achieve the effect they want in other ways... I just wanted to double check if there was any undocumented way of doing this. 2012/6/22 Steven Caron car...@gmail.com also, can you just branch and set point position on those particles instead? s On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.com wrote: What sort of procedural animation? Can it not be expressed as a simulation? Do you have an example of what you mean? gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Koch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 02:17 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.com mailto:gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards -- Gustavo E Boehs 3d Artist http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/blog
RE: Evalution outside simulation
The point that Steven and I were getting at is that simulations don't need to be cumulative. For example if you plug (0,0,0) into Set PointPosition, it's not going anywhere. So, you might be able to accomplish what you want to do with states. Another approach that might work is to have multiple point clouds, e.g., one for display and rendering, one for animation, and one for simulation, and then use a Boolean to control whether the display cloud reads its poistion from the animation or simulation cloud. gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Eggert Boehs Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 03:37 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation It is simple stuff like transformations, randomizations, sin functions and all that. Problem is I am trying to reproduce the (perceived) ease of use from moGraph. In it MOST things happen in a unsimulated envoiroment, as it is a lot faster to work in this fashion. You can work and scrub through the timeline interactivly. But then it allows you to trigger simulation at some point or event, which is nice. I could even try to re-work most of my nodes to have a simulated and unsimulated version, as the cumulative effect of simulation will break most of them, as they are right now. But fact is, it is a goal to be as non-simulated as possible. I understand it is an uncommon request, a bit of overkill really, and people can achieve the effect they want in other ways... I just wanted to double check if there was any undocumented way of doing this. 2012/6/22 Steven Caron car...@gmail.commailto:car...@gmail.com also, can you just branch and set point position on those particles instead? s On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.commailto:grahame.ful...@autodesk.com wrote: What sort of procedural animation? Can it not be expressed as a simulation? Do you have an example of what you mean? gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Koch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 02:17 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.commailto:gustav...@gmail.commailto:gustav...@gmail.commailto:gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards -- Gustavo E Boehs 3d Artist http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/blog attachment: winmail.dat
RE: Evalution outside simulation
I understand your point, but since the idea is to stack a bunch of diferent modifications on top of eachother they always rely on point position. So I am always doing something like self.pointposition + x,y,z... therefore cumulating values. Thinking harder about it, if I relied on emit location instead of point position, that might work... Having two clouds sounds like it could really work. Will try that. I did a quick test using post-sim Fabricio. I felt like it had limitaions, but since I am not in front of Si right now I cant really describe it. Thanks for all the good insights guys, ill do some tests and post back with the pros and cons of each approach. Chears Em 22/06/2012 16:54, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.com escreveu: The point that Steven and I were getting at is that simulations don't need to be cumulative. For example if you plug (0,0,0) into Set PointPosition, it's not going anywhere. So, you might be able to accomplish what you want to do with states. Another approach that might work is to have multiple point clouds, e.g., one for display and rendering, one for animation, and one for simulation, and then use a Boolean to control whether the display cloud reads its poistion from the animation or simulation cloud. gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Eggert Boehs Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 03:37 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation It is simple stuff like transformations, randomizations, sin functions and all that. Problem is I am trying to reproduce the (perceived) ease of use from moGraph. In it MOST things happen in a unsimulated envoiroment, as it is a lot faster to work in this fashion. You can work and scrub through the timeline interactivly. But then it allows you to trigger simulation at some point or event, which is nice. I could even try to re-work most of my nodes to have a simulated and unsimulated version, as the cumulative effect of simulation will break most of them, as they are right now. But fact is, it is a goal to be as non-simulated as possible. I understand it is an uncommon request, a bit of overkill really, and people can achieve the effect they want in other ways... I just wanted to double check if there was any undocumented way of doing this. 2012/6/22 Steven Caron car...@gmail.commailto:car...@gmail.com also, can you just branch and set point position on those particles instead? s On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.commailto:grahame.ful...@autodesk.com wrote: What sort of procedural animation? Can it not be expressed as a simulation? Do you have an example of what you mean? gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Koch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 02:17 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.com mailto:gustav...@gmail.commailto:gustav...@gmail.commailto: gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards -- Gustavo E Boehs 3d Artist http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/blog
Re: Evalution outside simulation
Depending what you're after post-sim might work if you think of Simulation as storage of values to use and process in post-sim. I recently did a sim of falling money bills. I drove ICE-modeling-instanced meshes with particles and to deform them I only needed to know the velocity difference between frames so I stored that stuff in Simulation and in Post-Sim I could interactively adjust the bend intensity and such, without resimulating completely. On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 6:21 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.comwrote: I understand your point, but since the idea is to stack a bunch of diferent modifications on top of eachother they always rely on point position. So I am always doing something like self.pointposition + x,y,z... therefore cumulating values. Thinking harder about it, if I relied on emit location instead of point position, that might work... Having two clouds sounds like it could really work. Will try that. I did a quick test using post-sim Fabricio. I felt like it had limitaions, but since I am not in front of Si right now I cant really describe it. Thanks for all the good insights guys, ill do some tests and post back with the pros and cons of each approach. Chears Em 22/06/2012 16:54, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.com escreveu: The point that Steven and I were getting at is that simulations don't need to be cumulative. For example if you plug (0,0,0) into Set PointPosition, it's not going anywhere. So, you might be able to accomplish what you want to do with states. Another approach that might work is to have multiple point clouds, e.g., one for display and rendering, one for animation, and one for simulation, and then use a Boolean to control whether the display cloud reads its poistion from the animation or simulation cloud. gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Eggert Boehs Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 03:37 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation It is simple stuff like transformations, randomizations, sin functions and all that. Problem is I am trying to reproduce the (perceived) ease of use from moGraph. In it MOST things happen in a unsimulated envoiroment, as it is a lot faster to work in this fashion. You can work and scrub through the timeline interactivly. But then it allows you to trigger simulation at some point or event, which is nice. I could even try to re-work most of my nodes to have a simulated and unsimulated version, as the cumulative effect of simulation will break most of them, as they are right now. But fact is, it is a goal to be as non-simulated as possible. I understand it is an uncommon request, a bit of overkill really, and people can achieve the effect they want in other ways... I just wanted to double check if there was any undocumented way of doing this. 2012/6/22 Steven Caron car...@gmail.commailto:car...@gmail.com also, can you just branch and set point position on those particles instead? s On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Grahame Fuller grahame.ful...@autodesk.commailto:grahame.ful...@autodesk.com wrote: What sort of procedural animation? Can it not be expressed as a simulation? Do you have an example of what you mean? gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Koch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 02:17 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Evalution outside simulation You can disable behaviours on a per particle basis, but everything will have to be simulated at all times. The thing you described is at the core of how ice works and there is no way around that as far as I know. On Jun 22, 2012 8:01 PM, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.com mailto:gustav...@gmail.commailto:gustav...@gmail.commailto: gustav...@gmail.com wrote: Hey there list! Trying to go further in my efforts of reproducing much of the functionallity found in C4Ds moGraph I´ve hit a wall. The problem is trying to mix procedural animation with simulations. When a pointcloud has a simulation in its stack, as we all know, everything which is underneath this point wont be evaluated. My question is: is it possible to trigger in and out of a state of simulation with a per point boolean? Best regards -- Gustavo E Boehs 3d Artist http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/blog
