RE: Houdini hierarchical organization
Jonathan, That was a fascinating read! Thanks for posting! Joey From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Moore Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 8:23 PM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=R52AX76sFvWS0oEESIS0PneEJr-sCPhvMH2hYXF3QBI&s=dIKI2yUl_L_F_F5UaVOcmlgEn0vcO76bsgRm7bRjZiE&e= Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization It's approaching 1.30am here in the UK, so please forgive my inability to string a sentence together correctly in that last post... :) On 24 October 2017 at 01:20, Jonathan Moore mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote: This post from SideFX's Jeff Wagner (Old School on the OdForce forum) it the thing that really started to make things click for me ref the under the workings of Houdini. It's about 7 posts down on this page. Essential reading for all: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.odforce.net_topic_17105-2Dshort-2Dand-2Dsweet-2Dop-2Dcentric-2Dlessons_-3Ftab-3Dcomments-23comment-2D10426&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=R52AX76sFvWS0oEESIS0PneEJr-sCPhvMH2hYXF3QBI&s=zB7g5UO8HuoGSst3FzensXsJJDyyq7SHW9PeszYXjzo&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.odforce.net_topic_17105-2Dshort-2Dand-2Dsweet-2Dop-2Dcentric-2Dlessons_-3Ftab-3Dcomments-23comment-2D10426&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ujAviM_q7MrH-zCjByNM783ilAjORLaIXkahTP16vis&s=pB1dmpZuVgukhafXcEk1X8SwREZ4Ua1aHQZEca-rvuU&e=> Enjoy. ;) On 23 October 2017 at 20:23, Jordi Bares mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote: I see… indeed the documentation could move a bit faster but I guess is the price we have to pay for such a turbo charged development cycles and support. In any case, I recall (although I can’t seem to find now) a post in Odforce about network evaluation order and multi-threading that explain some of the mechanisms at play that may shed some light for advanced users.. I could barely follow some parts but there were some gems in it. I will try to find it again, I am sure I saved in my stash of Houdini-stuff-that-one-day-I-will-need Enjoy! jb On 23 Oct 2017, at 16:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: Jordi, Thanks. I think though I’m looking for a broader explanation of what the contextual differences are between the network levels. It turns out part of my confusion may be in part due to the current documentation. Today I discovered that the online docs are different from the installed ones. For example I discovered that the installed doc page is different than its online equivalent for https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=R52AX76sFvWS0oEESIS0PneEJr-sCPhvMH2hYXF3QBI&s=-WtOcoqOeHt-Wdmld5vHiWMoVMzT9eLn-hS84uoi-2g&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=3WzLHhudfu-iCuZSnG30bFLuBY-ayjy-SfKTRymcoqM&e=> This online man pages clearly explains that Scene Level is strictly for spatial and hierarchical relations. Funny thing is there is no mention of this in the equivalent installed page. Or anywhere that I’ve searched in the installed docs for that matter. Apparently the docs are fluid and its best to use only the online version as they appear to be the most up to date. Time for me to start doing a lot of reading… -- Joey Ponthieux __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 10:13 AM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=R52AX76sFvWS0oEESIS0PneEJr-sCPhvMH2hYXF3QBI&s=dIKI2yUl_L_F_F5UaVOcmlgEn0vcO76bsgRm7bRjZiE&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
I recall from memory a different one… will check > On 24 Oct 2017, at 01:20, Jonathan Moore wrote: > > This post from SideFX's Jeff Wagner (Old School on the OdForce forum) it the > thing that really started to make things click for me ref the under the > workings of Houdini. It's about 7 posts down on this page. Essential reading > for all: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.odforce.net_topic_17105-2Dshort-2Dand-2Dsweet-2Dop-2Dcentric-2Dlessons_-3Ftab-3Dcomments-23comment-2D10426&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=i9ql2Tfkb2ilOV4pVHvfPa3JbKjCZBLo38JmtvhRrxw&s=C3HI2xIwCgNxzXRMh5wSVDKg-2zHuh0Uq9yfN6yRBFs&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.odforce.net_topic_17105-2Dshort-2Dand-2Dsweet-2Dop-2Dcentric-2Dlessons_-3Ftab-3Dcomments-23comment-2D10426&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=IFOB2YDfjKIkLLTxmuU784akT-nMalYgo3M-Wf7C0J0&s=guDONrq1PA8zNDwKN7IjlO8wgyBqc1_U1Hsg5CI1M6o&e=> > > Enjoy. ;) > > > On 23 October 2017 at 20:23, Jordi Bares <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote: > I see… indeed the documentation could move a bit faster but I guess is the > price we have to pay for such a turbo charged development cycles and support. > > In any case, I recall (although I can’t seem to find now) a post in Odforce > about network evaluation order and multi-threading that explain some of the > mechanisms at play that may shed some light for advanced users.. I could > barely follow some parts but there were some gems in it. > > I will try to find it again, I am sure I saved in my stash of > Houdini-stuff-that-one-day-I-will-need > > Enjoy! > jb > > >> On 23 Oct 2017, at 16:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] >> mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: >> >> Jordi, >> >> Thanks. I think though I’m looking for a broader explanation of what the >> contextual differences are between the network levels. >> >> It turns out part of my confusion may be in part due to the current >> documentation. Today I discovered that the online docs are different from >> the installed ones. For example I discovered that the installed doc page is >> different than its online equivalent for >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=i9ql2Tfkb2ilOV4pVHvfPa3JbKjCZBLo38JmtvhRrxw&s=9bMuf9jpwd-woiJFImFFpmqtDd3opE2DIrWLEPzKVwg&e= >> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=3WzLHhudfu-iCuZSnG30bFLuBY-ayjy-SfKTRymcoqM&e=> >> >> This online man pages clearly explains that Scene Level is strictly for >> spatial and hierarchical relations. Funny thing is there is no mention of >> this in the equivalent installed page. Or anywhere that I’ve searched in the >> installed docs for that matter. Apparently the docs are fluid and its best >> to use only the online version as they appear to be the most up to date. >> >> Time for me to start doing a lot of reading… >> >> >> -- >> Joey Ponthieux >> >> __ >> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not >> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <> >> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> >> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 10:13 AM >> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=i9ql2Tfkb2ilOV4pVHvfPa3JbKjCZBLo38JmtvhRrxw&s=99AUwc84PmWywzaOaXEo3DdX0yTWdZ6AodeGlrC9KV4&e= >> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
It's approaching 1.30am here in the UK, so please forgive my inability to string a sentence together correctly in that last post... :) On 24 October 2017 at 01:20, Jonathan Moore wrote: > This post from SideFX's Jeff Wagner (Old School on the OdForce forum) it > the thing that really started to make things click for me ref the under the > workings of Houdini. It's about 7 posts down on this page. Essential > reading for all: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.odforce.net_topic_17105-2Dshort-2Dand-2Dsweet-2D&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ujAviM_q7MrH-zCjByNM783ilAjORLaIXkahTP16vis&s=Q1UpdRpEyxb6ejlub6NohHp3Be3bPyZqtVjstSYC4g4&e= > op-centric-lessons/?tab=comments#comment-10426 > > Enjoy. ;) > > > On 23 October 2017 at 20:23, Jordi Bares wrote: > >> I see… indeed the documentation could move a bit faster but I guess is >> the price we have to pay for such a turbo charged development cycles and >> support. >> >> In any case, I recall (although I can’t seem to find now) a post in >> Odforce about network evaluation order and multi-threading that explain >> some of the mechanisms at play that may shed some light for advanced >> users.. I could barely follow some parts but there were some gems in it. >> >> I will try to find it again, I am sure I saved in my stash of >> Houdini-stuff-that-one-day-I-will-need >> >> Enjoy! >> jb >> >> >> On 23 Oct 2017, at 16:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] < >> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote: >> >> Jordi, >> >> Thanks. I think though I’m looking for a broader explanation of what the >> contextual differences are between the network levels. >> >> It turns out part of my confusion may be in part due to the current >> documentation. Today I discovered that the online docs are different from >> the installed ones. For example I discovered that the installed doc page is >> different than its online equivalent for >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ujAviM_q7MrH-zCjByNM783ilAjORLaIXkahTP16vis&s=WNzwQXsE_GYhrWnzng_jIGPKyIPKhvxRm6pieOw1fes&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=3WzLHhudfu-iCuZSnG30bFLuBY-ayjy-SfKTRymcoqM&e=> >> >> This online man pages clearly explains that Scene Level is strictly for >> spatial and hierarchical relations. Funny thing is there is no mention of >> this in the equivalent installed page. Or anywhere that I’ve searched in >> the installed docs for that matter. Apparently the docs are fluid and its >> best to use only the online version as they appear to be the most up to >> date. >> >> Time for me to start doing a lot of reading… >> >> >> -- >> Joey Ponthieux >> >> __ >> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not >> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ >> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> ] *On Behalf Of *Jordi Bares >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 21, 2017 10:13 AM >> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ujAviM_q7MrH-zCjByNM783ilAjORLaIXkahTP16vis&s=PMQyvwjgCc_K-GiAhAB86cSmEu8Oio7wJauG4ZG0BPY&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=Fxpxs5Bh9EHuBuWO7qZmnbpALp1iC0sIeTStqCXGlLo&e=> >> >> *Subject:* Re: Houdini hierarchical organization >> >> Mmm… if you try (forgive me if I am getting it wrong) to represent data >> in the same way in Houdini you may struggle as it is a different principle. >> >> Only subnetworks can store objects, what lies inside an object is the >>
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
This post from SideFX's Jeff Wagner (Old School on the OdForce forum) it the thing that really started to make things click for me ref the under the workings of Houdini. It's about 7 posts down on this page. Essential reading for all: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.odforce.net_topic_17105-2Dshort-2Dand-2Dsweet-2Dop-2Dcentric-2Dlessons_-3Ftab-3Dcomments-23comment-2D10426&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=IFOB2YDfjKIkLLTxmuU784akT-nMalYgo3M-Wf7C0J0&s=guDONrq1PA8zNDwKN7IjlO8wgyBqc1_U1Hsg5CI1M6o&e= Enjoy. ;) On 23 October 2017 at 20:23, Jordi Bares wrote: > I see… indeed the documentation could move a bit faster but I guess is the > price we have to pay for such a turbo charged development cycles and > support. > > In any case, I recall (although I can’t seem to find now) a post in > Odforce about network evaluation order and multi-threading that explain > some of the mechanisms at play that may shed some light for advanced > users.. I could barely follow some parts but there were some gems in it. > > I will try to find it again, I am sure I saved in my stash of > Houdini-stuff-that-one-day-I-will-need > > Enjoy! > jb > > > On 23 Oct 2017, at 16:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] < > j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote: > > Jordi, > > Thanks. I think though I’m looking for a broader explanation of what the > contextual differences are between the network levels. > > It turns out part of my confusion may be in part due to the current > documentation. Today I discovered that the online docs are different from > the installed ones. For example I discovered that the installed doc page is > different than its online equivalent for > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=IFOB2YDfjKIkLLTxmuU784akT-nMalYgo3M-Wf7C0J0&s=Fa-NnXp5G5Bdfd1_5CdlxrEE4CDmXXuFVS88OATE3Zk&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=3WzLHhudfu-iCuZSnG30bFLuBY-ayjy-SfKTRymcoqM&e=> > > This online man pages clearly explains that Scene Level is strictly for > spatial and hierarchical relations. Funny thing is there is no mention of > this in the equivalent installed page. Or anywhere that I’ve searched in > the installed docs for that matter. Apparently the docs are fluid and its > best to use only the online version as they appear to be the most up to > date. > > Time for me to start doing a lot of reading… > > > -- > Joey Ponthieux > > __ > Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not > represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. > > > > > > > > *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@ > listproc.autodesk.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Jordi Bares > *Sent:* Saturday, October 21, 2017 10:13 AM > *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=IFOB2YDfjKIkLLTxmuU784akT-nMalYgo3M-Wf7C0J0&s=I6ysXtC51DikyXWDoOcACx0HKmLq6cbLWR3N6fyzHuU&e= > forum/#!forum/xsi_list > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=Fxpxs5Bh9EHuBuWO7qZmnbpALp1iC0sIeTStqCXGlLo&e=> > > *Subject:* Re: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Mmm… if you try (forgive me if I am getting it wrong) to represent data in > the same way in Houdini you may struggle as it is a different principle. > > Only subnetworks can store objects, what lies inside an object is the > procedural network that is evaluated. > > Therefore, if you have a table with four legs, they can be “sons” of a > subnetwork, but the legs can’t be “sons” of the tabletop. You may pass data > from one to the other and the behaviour will be similar to that of a > hierarchy but of course, this is not and therefore won’t be represented as > such in the Tree View. > > In terms of the Tree View limitations, I agree they could bring some ideas > from XSI into it but let’s not forget, represent
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
I see… indeed the documentation could move a bit faster but I guess is the price we have to pay for such a turbo charged development cycles and support. In any case, I recall (although I can’t seem to find now) a post in Odforce about network evaluation order and multi-threading that explain some of the mechanisms at play that may shed some light for advanced users.. I could barely follow some parts but there were some gems in it. I will try to find it again, I am sure I saved in my stash of Houdini-stuff-that-one-day-I-will-need Enjoy! jb > On 23 Oct 2017, at 16:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > wrote: > > Jordi, > > Thanks. I think though I’m looking for a broader explanation of what the > contextual differences are between the network levels. > > It turns out part of my confusion may be in part due to the current > documentation. Today I discovered that the online docs are different from the > installed ones. For example I discovered that the installed doc page is > different than its online equivalent for > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=3WzLHhudfu-iCuZSnG30bFLuBY-ayjy-SfKTRymcoqM&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=3WzLHhudfu-iCuZSnG30bFLuBY-ayjy-SfKTRymcoqM&e=> > > This online man pages clearly explains that Scene Level is strictly for > spatial and hierarchical relations. Funny thing is there is no mention of > this in the equivalent installed page. Or anywhere that I’ve searched in the > installed docs for that matter. Apparently the docs are fluid and its best to > use only the online version as they appear to be the most up to date. > > Time for me to start doing a lot of reading… > > > -- > Joey Ponthieux > > __ > Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not > represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. > > > > > > > <> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 10:13 AM > To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=u77dOKhUM8I5W9ZDtgjaqAfpoAFh4Vv98S9cXQes4Bc&s=Fxpxs5Bh9EHuBuWO7qZmnbpALp1iC0sIeTStqCXGlLo&e= > > Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Mmm… if you try (forgive me if I am getting it wrong) to represent data in > the same way in Houdini you may struggle as it is a different principle. > > Only subnetworks can store objects, what lies inside an object is the > procedural network that is evaluated. > > Therefore, if you have a table with four legs, they can be “sons” of a > subnetwork, but the legs can’t be “sons” of the tabletop. You may pass data > from one to the other and the behaviour will be similar to that of a > hierarchy but of course, this is not and therefore won’t be represented as > such in the Tree View. > > In terms of the Tree View limitations, I agree they could bring some ideas > from XSI into it but let’s not forget, representing a parallel workflow (SOPs > for example) in a linear hierarchical way is simply not possible. Which is > the same issue you find in XSI with ICE trees where they are represented by a > operator in the op stack and you need a special viewer. > > I hope I understood well your explanation. > jb > > PS. With the guides… I am on it… but the problem is that I am super busy > right now so finding time is proving very very very difficult. > > > On 20 Oct 2017, at 20:09, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: > > Jordi, > > Yes, I agree, it is a hierarchy, but the issue is the type of hierarchy it is. > > The hierarchy that the Tree View presents is neither procedural nor spatial, > but rather resembles that of a file system. The word I used earlier was > “container view”. Tree View appears to be, for lack of a better description, > more appropriately a “Path View” like Windows Explorer where it reflects the > scene relative “file p
RE: Houdini hierarchical organization
Jordi, Thanks. I think though I’m looking for a broader explanation of what the contextual differences are between the network levels. It turns out part of my confusion may be in part due to the current documentation. Today I discovered that the online docs are different from the installed ones. For example I discovered that the installed doc page is different than its online equivalent for https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_obj_-5Findex&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=l0u6jf5_k23_sUozgc0HB4nfxCjDEMJFBPXUtV-UffI&s=gCoUBr-Z_tNRR7_veIW2EA6eyUXKFpOeVzMRV-f4aU4&e= This online man pages clearly explains that Scene Level is strictly for spatial and hierarchical relations. Funny thing is there is no mention of this in the equivalent installed page. Or anywhere that I’ve searched in the installed docs for that matter. Apparently the docs are fluid and its best to use only the online version as they appear to be the most up to date. Time for me to start doing a lot of reading… -- Joey Ponthieux __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 10:13 AM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=l0u6jf5_k23_sUozgc0HB4nfxCjDEMJFBPXUtV-UffI&s=C-Z_EhoqVY9TPNuOSdKA1QKgDk0Lz_-NaBuyp0EqQ3A&e= Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization Mmm… if you try (forgive me if I am getting it wrong) to represent data in the same way in Houdini you may struggle as it is a different principle. Only subnetworks can store objects, what lies inside an object is the procedural network that is evaluated. Therefore, if you have a table with four legs, they can be “sons” of a subnetwork, but the legs can’t be “sons” of the tabletop. You may pass data from one to the other and the behaviour will be similar to that of a hierarchy but of course, this is not and therefore won’t be represented as such in the Tree View. In terms of the Tree View limitations, I agree they could bring some ideas from XSI into it but let’s not forget, representing a parallel workflow (SOPs for example) in a linear hierarchical way is simply not possible. Which is the same issue you find in XSI with ICE trees where they are represented by a operator in the op stack and you need a special viewer. I hope I understood well your explanation. jb PS. With the guides… I am on it… but the problem is that I am super busy right now so finding time is proving very very very difficult. On 20 Oct 2017, at 20:09, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: Jordi, Yes, I agree, it is a hierarchy, but the issue is the type of hierarchy it is. The hierarchy that the Tree View presents is neither procedural nor spatial, but rather resembles that of a file system. The word I used earlier was “container view”. Tree View appears to be, for lack of a better description, more appropriately a “Path View” like Windows Explorer where it reflects the scene relative “file paths” of all objects in the scene. This is reflected in your example of the first torus when we use /obj/subnet1/subnet2/subnet1/torus_object1/tx to address x translation. This is similar to the absolute Dag paths in Maya I suppose, those seen when when using “ls –l”. Though it seems to employ a more absolute context in Houdini whereas in XSI or Maya you can address parameters from an object’s relative path. The confusion in Houdini, for me at least, seems to be that the hierarchy relative an object’s name path appears to be exclusive and different from any spatial hierarchy? Or is this just a skewed perspective as a result of studying the Tree View? The subnet example you provided appears to be capable of producing a hierarchy separate of the torus and null, but in the context of the view they would seem to be all part of the same hierarchy relative their absolute scene path names. The second torus and null would seem to be peers to subnet1 under obj for example. So it doesn’t seem that they are exclusive of the hierarchy at all, they’re just not part of an extended hierarchy. What I wanted to see was not the node path hierarchy but rather the articulation hierarchy, or spatial hierarchy, the way either Explorer or Outliner present it relative object ownership and spatial parenting. I’m learning the spatial hierarchy in Houdini has to be constructed in Network View buts
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
, and for that matter, where > can spatial hierarchies even be set up and how do they differ from context to > context (Scene vs Geometry for example). Until a couple days ago I thought > all network connections in Houdini were actually procedural. I’m now > questioning whether that is the case or are some of these connections that > look procedural, are they only abstractions for the sake of establishing > spatial hierarchy? If that is the case, which ones are abstractions and which > ones aren’t? How and what do I use to establish an awareness of what is being > edited by an operator vs what is taking only spatial transformation or > spatial governance? Is any spatial ownership actually occurring at all in > Houdini, like in XSI or Maya, or is my current assumption incorrect and are > all spatial relationships actually procedural but more similar to > constraints? I could see that to be the case at the Geometry level but that’s > not the way it appears at the Scene level. None of this is very clear or I’m > just not looking in the right place yet J > > And yes, “procedural hierarchy” is probably a misnomer. Since in theory a > procedural tree isn’t supposed to be rank based but rather restricted only by > IO type. Any node at the bottom should be capable of feeding back to any node > above it that at a minimum matches or uses its IO classes, so ownership > (rank) should be irrelevant. I guess that’s why I’m finding the use of a > procedural tree to establish spatial relationships, which are rank based, to > be somewhat unnerving and counterintuitive. It seems to go against the whole > grain of proceduralism. Unless there’s something about the way Houdini is > doing this that I don’t quite grasp yet? > > BTW, your Softimage to Houdini document (all 849 pages of it!) is just > fantastic! I hope you plan to be doing more with it. > > Joey > > <> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 6:40 PM > To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=XlsBp8GvwJkE-NA5nIAdVlrDz2EOY1Ef2EsZ2SKOAVs&s=yBbaZwFkSpwlDDezCPJd4Ta89esTQLLtSVzu95xorBU&e= > > Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Just to clarify… > > Hierarchies are fully represented in the Tree View, the content of an object > too but of course it is impossible to draw in a hierarchical way something > that is parallel. > > For example, in XSI you have an object (that would be your Houdini Object) > and the operator stack in a linear fashion (which is your SOPs -with regards > to geoemtry- and in Houdini is non-linear so you can’t see it the same way). > Nevertheless you can still see all those SOPs nodes arranged in there. > > BUT > > When you are in your OBJ and you plug one object to another you are NOT > building a hierarchy, you are just passing data from one node to another, the > behaviour in many cases is exactly like a hierarchy, but remember you are > just passing data. > > That is the reason you don’t see it graphed in the Tree View. > > Try this > > 1) Create an torus > 2) create a subnetrowk > 3) create another one > 4) create another one > > And now have a look at the TreeView… that IS a hierarchy. > > > Now try this > > 1) create a new torus > 2) create a null > 3) plug the null to the torus so the null affects the SRT data on the torus > > Check and you will see that IS NOT a hierarchy although it behaves like one. > > > I hope that helps > jb > > > > > On 19 Oct 2017, at 19:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: > > Olivier, > > Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but > rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree > View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater > advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as long > as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in its > representation. > > This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It also > confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View apparently > governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a bit more > effort than I originally anticipated. > > > Thanks > > Joey >
RE: Houdini hierarchical organization
somewhat unnerving and counterintuitive. It seems to go against the whole grain of proceduralism. Unless there’s something about the way Houdini is doing this that I don’t quite grasp yet? BTW, your Softimage to Houdini document (all 849 pages of it!) is just fantastic! I hope you plan to be doing more with it. Joey From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 6:40 PM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=cTaFtUQMi3XnzvtSpI6AXKpDHG1-P_3-giRMX_N7Ias&s=GYDB7cLs6ZIfwJJZGyMAKggSzfIlWVMkY4g-7p4q32s&e= Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization Just to clarify… Hierarchies are fully represented in the Tree View, the content of an object too but of course it is impossible to draw in a hierarchical way something that is parallel. For example, in XSI you have an object (that would be your Houdini Object) and the operator stack in a linear fashion (which is your SOPs -with regards to geoemtry- and in Houdini is non-linear so you can’t see it the same way). Nevertheless you can still see all those SOPs nodes arranged in there. BUT When you are in your OBJ and you plug one object to another you are NOT building a hierarchy, you are just passing data from one node to another, the behaviour in many cases is exactly like a hierarchy, but remember you are just passing data. That is the reason you don’t see it graphed in the Tree View. Try this 1) Create an torus 2) create a subnetrowk 3) create another one 4) create another one And now have a look at the TreeView… that IS a hierarchy. Now try this 1) create a new torus 2) create a null 3) plug the null to the torus so the null affects the SRT data on the torus Check and you will see that IS NOT a hierarchy although it behaves like one. I hope that helps jb On 19 Oct 2017, at 19:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: Olivier, Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as long as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in its representation. This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It also confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View apparently governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a bit more effort than I originally anticipated. Thanks Joey From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=cTaFtUQMi3XnzvtSpI6AXKpDHG1-P_3-giRMX_N7Ias&s=GYDB7cLs6ZIfwJJZGyMAKggSzfIlWVMkY4g-7p4q32s&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=HeGph8Xh5ttXXXkUA1HeWYPBLG2Qmno5epbEQVMdgfg&s=HSr8sPtL0vRAqzlfGZqIuieD_U92SvH8KA-P1XezYi8&e=> mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>> Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with som "gem" about the tree view https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=cTaFtUQMi3XnzvtSpI6AXKpDHG1-P_3-giRMX_N7Ias&s=wSCg5tLAcvRhPktwcfXY2ZtEdJSvm8ZeKXeoQnu1b44&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e=> Apologies if I'm way out of topic. 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>>: Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. However, the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative data visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an organisational view or a place where
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
Completely agree, SI explorer is like a Swiss army knife compared to other crappy list of object in scenes that others have. If al lthey can learn from one thing only it would be SI's Explorer! And render passes, And workflow.. And.. argh.. you got the point.. ᐧ On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Jonathan Moore wrote: > I recently walked some SideFX folk through the niceties of Soft's Explorer > view. They are open to elucidation but the problem is that they don't > always realise how broken Houdini really is when it comes to animation UX > and scene management utility in general. > > Whenever I return to Soft (generally to make use of Eric M's peerless > tools) the Explorer is always such a welcome sight (especially if I'm > returning to a setup I've not used for many months). It's amazing how much > utility the Soft engineers managed to fit into that single interface. Of > all the things Autodesk have pilfered from Soft for inclusion in Maya/Max > the UX of the Soft Explorer would have been top of my list. Even amongst > Maya loyalists, there aren't many fans of the Outliner! > > On 20 October 2017 at 10:10, Jordi Bares wrote: > >> That would make the TreeView very useful… nice ideas! >> >> On 20 Oct 2017, at 09:42, Tim Bolland wrote: >> >> I have campaigned for the tree view to allow control over hierarchies and >> exhibit other useful features similar to Soft. These would include >> manipulating parent/child relationships, duplicating objects and deleting >> objects. I was also asking for an option to see and edit parameters on the >> object node (such as kinematics and custom promoted parameters). >> >> They seemed interested in this and have submitted and RFE for the >> changes (Submitted as RFE (ID=85595)), so fingers crossed this is coming >> in a future update! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> -- >> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com < >> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Ponthieux, Joseph >> G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] >> *Sent:* 19 October 2017 19:54 >> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> *Subject:* RE: Houdini hierarchical organization >> >> Olivier, >> >> >> Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but >> rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree >> View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater >> advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as >> long as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in >> its representation. >> >> >> This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It >> also confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View >> apparently governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a >> bit more effort than I originally anticipated. >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Joey >> >> >> >> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ >> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> ] *On Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM >> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=3caZFmU0FmtOsadUnMW75lXf1MiPyTgafdsZec2bl0U&s=tjEMqGwHUd8qDnG8gbx0H-P2joIRkm-lKbH7rSTrKhU&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ScFIn7D4C28koShcB40kW_jG5xL8zYOKII9bGEUKYCE&s=ohuEXEToqJg7X6ZaqlvKeAaQsLvTbYU7l5UKLKImT48&e=> >> >> *Subject:* Re: Houdini hierarchical organization >> >> >> Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with >> som "gem" about the tree view >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=3caZFmU0FmtOsadUnMW75lXf1MiPyTgafdsZec2bl0U&s=dPOaCK6ih8gETqUH_AZ9fJBYmsgB33IF3Jjvam7lrH0&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heE
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
I recently walked some SideFX folk through the niceties of Soft's Explorer view. They are open to elucidation but the problem is that they don't always realise how broken Houdini really is when it comes to animation UX and scene management utility in general. Whenever I return to Soft (generally to make use of Eric M's peerless tools) the Explorer is always such a welcome sight (especially if I'm returning to a setup I've not used for many months). It's amazing how much utility the Soft engineers managed to fit into that single interface. Of all the things Autodesk have pilfered from Soft for inclusion in Maya/Max the UX of the Soft Explorer would have been top of my list. Even amongst Maya loyalists, there aren't many fans of the Outliner! On 20 October 2017 at 10:10, Jordi Bares wrote: > That would make the TreeView very useful… nice ideas! > > On 20 Oct 2017, at 09:42, Tim Bolland wrote: > > I have campaigned for the tree view to allow control over hierarchies and > exhibit other useful features similar to Soft. These would include > manipulating parent/child relationships, duplicating objects and deleting > objects. I was also asking for an option to see and edit parameters on the > object node (such as kinematics and custom promoted parameters). > > They seemed interested in this and have submitted and RFE for the changes > (Submitted > as RFE (ID=85595)), so fingers crossed this is coming in a future update! > > Cheers, > > Tim > > > > -- > *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com < > softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Ponthieux, Joseph > G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > *Sent:* 19 October 2017 19:54 > *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > *Subject:* RE: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Olivier, > > > Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but > rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree > View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater > advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as > long as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in > its representation. > > > This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It > also confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View > apparently governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a > bit more effort than I originally anticipated. > > > > > Thanks > > > Joey > > > > *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@ > listproc.autodesk.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel > *Sent:* Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM > *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zpbQ19pqnSq50uFMoevPIwf0IaYYUgJ5FLaUr2bOuss&s=kXAW8m03MPYrQXkdpU0RUbPwM6vjb8LxiwnEnxI9wpE&e= > forum/#!forum/xsi_list > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ScFIn7D4C28koShcB40kW_jG5xL8zYOKII9bGEUKYCE&s=ohuEXEToqJg7X6ZaqlvKeAaQsLvTbYU7l5UKLKImT48&e=> > > *Subject:* Re: Houdini hierarchical organization > > > Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with > som "gem" about the tree view > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zpbQ19pqnSq50uFMoevPIwf0IaYYUgJ5FLaUr2bOuss&s=xOQFKsXfsiesQroWpEC6HtaJjigzvZv1f8AP9phkiD0&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e=> > Apologies if I'm way out of topic. > > > 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore : > > Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. > However, the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative > data visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an > organisational view or a place where you manipulate data. Transform > hierarchies should be created in the Network Editor and you can quickly > traverse nesting structures via the tree view. > > > In simple terms the Network
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
That would make the TreeView very useful… nice ideas! > On 20 Oct 2017, at 09:42, Tim Bolland wrote: > > I have campaigned for the tree view to allow control over hierarchies and > exhibit other useful features similar to Soft. These would include > manipulating parent/child relationships, duplicating objects and deleting > objects. I was also asking for an option to see and edit parameters on the > object node (such as kinematics and custom promoted parameters). > > They seemed interested in this and have submitted and RFE for the changes > (Submitted as RFE (ID=85595)), so fingers crossed this is coming in a future > update! > > Cheers, > > Tim > > > > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > on behalf of Ponthieux, Joseph G. > (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > Sent: 19 October 2017 19:54 > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > Subject: RE: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Olivier, > > Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but > rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree > View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater > advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as long > as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in its > representation. > > This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It also > confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View apparently > governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a bit more > effort than I originally anticipated. > > > Thanks > > Joey > > <> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM > To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ScFIn7D4C28koShcB40kW_jG5xL8zYOKII9bGEUKYCE&s=ohuEXEToqJg7X6ZaqlvKeAaQsLvTbYU7l5UKLKImT48&e= > > Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with som > "gem" about the tree view > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=ScFIn7D4C28koShcB40kW_jG5xL8zYOKII9bGEUKYCE&s=bFWjwFCeLVZGKXZii1JxLho9Ae8s7KLQJWp4aJUY8yg&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e=> > Apologies if I'm way out of topic. > > 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>>: > Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. However, > the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative data > visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an organisational view > or a place where you manipulate data. Transform hierarchies should be created > in the Network Editor and you can quickly traverse nesting structures via the > tree view. > > In simple terms the Network Editor is where all major scene manipulations > take place and the Tree View is provided to aid navigation in complex node > structures. > > At least that's the way I've always worked in Houdini. ;) > > jm > > On 19 October 2017 at 16:47, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: > Hello folks, > > I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context of > this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an > exclusive Houdini background. I’ve been trying to learn Houdini the past > several months and I’ve suddenly realized something that has me questioning > some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the > interface. > > To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object > hierarchical parenting relative transform relationship? > > I’ve discovered that I can create transform relationships just fine in > Network View, but that it has also taken some effort to realize what happens > in Network::Scene is both similar and dissimilar to what happens in > Network::Geometry
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
I have campaigned for the tree view to allow control over hierarchies and exhibit other useful features similar to Soft. These would include manipulating parent/child relationships, duplicating objects and deleting objects. I was also asking for an option to see and edit parameters on the object node (such as kinematics and custom promoted parameters). They seemed interested in this and have submitted and RFE for the changes (Submitted as RFE (ID=85595)), so fingers crossed this is coming in a future update! Cheers, Tim From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com on behalf of Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] Sent: 19 October 2017 19:54 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Houdini hierarchical organization Olivier, Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as long as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in its representation. This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It also confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View apparently governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a bit more effort than I originally anticipated. Thanks Joey From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIF-g&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=Vkqh3r5bQUYsFIT9BVW6iHUz7oy_JVi2RqLK-6VonPo&s=qtMFTTWi53LRolboDzgqEJ-zq3a8eRMeRkz2cVWATCQ&e= Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with som "gem" about the tree view https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIF-g&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=Vkqh3r5bQUYsFIT9BVW6iHUz7oy_JVi2RqLK-6VonPo&s=3E9Pnk3_VPoSCgi5rCR4nPiDrVqoR05YhtsWnlLI-VI&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e=> Apologies if I'm way out of topic. 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>>: Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. However, the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative data visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an organisational view or a place where you manipulate data. Transform hierarchies should be created in the Network Editor and you can quickly traverse nesting structures via the tree view. In simple terms the Network Editor is where all major scene manipulations take place and the Tree View is provided to aid navigation in complex node structures. At least that's the way I've always worked in Houdini. ;) jm On 19 October 2017 at 16:47, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: Hello folks, I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context of this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an exclusive Houdini background. I’ve been trying to learn Houdini the past several months and I’ve suddenly realized something that has me questioning some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the interface. To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object hierarchical parenting relative transform relationship? I’ve discovered that I can create transform relationships just fine in Network View, but that it has also taken some effort to realize what happens in Network::Scene is both similar and dissimilar to what happens in Network::Geometry and neither is exactly reflected the same way in Tree View. A big part of the dissimilarities that I’m starting realize differ on how, and when, a network produces transform relationships versus when it permits procedural editing of object data. It seems that Tree View only depicts a kind of “container view” context. Or rather, what is “inside” something else as opposed to what is the parented relationship by transform or articulation context. Tree View is great for finding and selecting something but more or less seems inef
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
Just to clarify… Hierarchies are fully represented in the Tree View, the content of an object too but of course it is impossible to draw in a hierarchical way something that is parallel. For example, in XSI you have an object (that would be your Houdini Object) and the operator stack in a linear fashion (which is your SOPs -with regards to geoemtry- and in Houdini is non-linear so you can’t see it the same way). Nevertheless you can still see all those SOPs nodes arranged in there. BUT When you are in your OBJ and you plug one object to another you are NOT building a hierarchy, you are just passing data from one node to another, the behaviour in many cases is exactly like a hierarchy, but remember you are just passing data. That is the reason you don’t see it graphed in the Tree View. Try this 1) Create an torus 2) create a subnetrowk 3) create another one 4) create another one And now have a look at the TreeView… that IS a hierarchy. Now try this 1) create a new torus 2) create a null 3) plug the null to the torus so the null affects the SRT data on the torus Check and you will see that IS NOT a hierarchy although it behaves like one. I hope that helps jb > On 19 Oct 2017, at 19:54, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > wrote: > > Olivier, > > Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but > rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree > View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater > advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as long > as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in its > representation. > > This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It also > confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View apparently > governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a bit more > effort than I originally anticipated. > > > Thanks > > Joey > > <> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM > To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=HeGph8Xh5ttXXXkUA1HeWYPBLG2Qmno5epbEQVMdgfg&s=HSr8sPtL0vRAqzlfGZqIuieD_U92SvH8KA-P1XezYi8&e= > > Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization > > Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with som > "gem" about the tree view > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=HeGph8Xh5ttXXXkUA1HeWYPBLG2Qmno5epbEQVMdgfg&s=ymGBWPPB_nbC0fht_ceN-grCES3UXgZOth8qG1QlLmE&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e=> > Apologies if I'm way out of topic. > > 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>>: > Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. However, > the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative data > visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an organisational view > or a place where you manipulate data. Transform hierarchies should be created > in the Network Editor and you can quickly traverse nesting structures via the > tree view. > > In simple terms the Network Editor is where all major scene manipulations > take place and the Tree View is provided to aid navigation in complex node > structures. > > At least that's the way I've always worked in Houdini. ;) > > jm > > On 19 October 2017 at 16:47, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] > mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: > Hello folks, > > I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context of > this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an > exclusive Houdini background. I’ve been trying to learn Houdini the past > several months and I’ve suddenly realized something that has me questioning > some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the > interface. > > To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object > hierarchical paren
RE: Houdini hierarchical organization
Olivier, Yes, that’s what I was looking for. Though it really isn’t Tree View but rather Network View in List Mode . Apparently its not possible to make Tree View behave the way I was expecting it to. But I guess there is a greater advantage to having Tree View and Network View in use simultaneously as long as you understand that Tree View is neither procedural nor spatial in its representation. This is useful, and it confirms my initial perception of Tree View. It also confirms that reconciling the multiple contexts that Network View apparently governs, procedural vs spatial for example, is going to take a bit more effort than I originally anticipated. Thanks Joey From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:25 PM To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=7khTeFYtV6y7iCJbfQ4zT5mdaI08PiGEybo7UbeOyWM&s=dXhDF1xTlXJmZqguUdV5yV8uc8rbm80Ri8Zb7uQW8nk&e= Subject: Re: Houdini hierarchical organization Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with som "gem" about the tree view https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIGaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=7khTeFYtV6y7iCJbfQ4zT5mdaI08PiGEybo7UbeOyWM&s=Hd8FbEKjiK0mEqJrpi2l5Q3YyoUNvD_OrMfWBJMWmt8&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e=> Apologies if I'm way out of topic. 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>>: Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. However, the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative data visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an organisational view or a place where you manipulate data. Transform hierarchies should be created in the Network Editor and you can quickly traverse nesting structures via the tree view. In simple terms the Network Editor is where all major scene manipulations take place and the Tree View is provided to aid navigation in complex node structures. At least that's the way I've always worked in Houdini. ;) jm On 19 October 2017 at 16:47, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote: Hello folks, I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context of this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an exclusive Houdini background. I’ve been trying to learn Houdini the past several months and I’ve suddenly realized something that has me questioning some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the interface. To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object hierarchical parenting relative transform relationship? I’ve discovered that I can create transform relationships just fine in Network View, but that it has also taken some effort to realize what happens in Network::Scene is both similar and dissimilar to what happens in Network::Geometry and neither is exactly reflected the same way in Tree View. A big part of the dissimilarities that I’m starting realize differ on how, and when, a network produces transform relationships versus when it permits procedural editing of object data. It seems that Tree View only depicts a kind of “container view” context. Or rather, what is “inside” something else as opposed to what is the parented relationship by transform or articulation context. Tree View is great for finding and selecting something but more or less seems ineffective in setting up a hierarchy of objects affected by transformation relationships. I’m finding the only place I can do that is in Network View, and that the nature of this changes in context somewhat depending upon Network View’s active object context, whether its Scene or Geometry for example. Which gets me to my next question, what and where is the proper way in Houdini to set up hierarchical relationships of transform context? (Parenting for articulation purposes) I find I can use nulls or geometry in Network::Scene to do this but then I have to use transforms in Network::Geometry to do the same thing. But transforms in Network::Geometry also permit instancing of the geometry as well as transform relationships and the entire behavior of the network in Geometry seems to permit a higher degree of procedura
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
Not sure I understand you well Jopseph, but here a little tutorial with som "gem" about the tree view https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_233232773&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=OKef69kBqPJXx68i4heEfHR30NI_NUub2sbaNk2wwws&s=LxaiEbXJ3vm44MM6t9mv5vJ_ShpJjcEj5uTiecLtIkM&e= Apologies if I'm way out of topic. 2017-10-19 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore : > Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. > However, the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative > data visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an > organisational view or a place where you manipulate data. Transform > hierarchies should be created in the Network Editor and you can quickly > traverse nesting structures via the tree view. > > In simple terms the Network Editor is where all major scene manipulations > take place and the Tree View is provided to aid navigation in complex node > structures. > > At least that's the way I've always worked in Houdini. ;) > > jm > > On 19 October 2017 at 16:47, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] < > j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote: > >> Hello folks, >> >> >> >> I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context >> of this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an >> exclusive Houdini background. I’ve been trying to learn Houdini the past >> several months and I’ve suddenly realized something that has me questioning >> some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the >> interface. >> >> >> >> To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object >> hierarchical parenting relative transform relationship? >> >> >> >> I’ve discovered that I can create transform relationships just fine in >> Network View, but that it has also taken some effort to realize what >> happens in Network::Scene is both similar and dissimilar to what happens in >> Network::Geometry and neither is exactly reflected the same way in Tree >> View. A big part of the dissimilarities that I’m starting realize differ >> on how, and when, a network produces transform relationships versus when it >> permits procedural editing of object data. >> >> >> >> It seems that Tree View only depicts a kind of “container view” context. >> Or rather, what is “inside” something else as opposed to what is the >> parented relationship by transform or articulation context. Tree View is >> great for finding and selecting something but more or less seems >> ineffective in setting up a hierarchy of objects affected by transformation >> relationships. I’m finding the only place I can do that is in Network View, >> and that the nature of this changes in context somewhat depending upon >> Network View’s active object context, whether its Scene or Geometry for >> example. >> >> >> >> Which gets me to my next question, what and where is the proper way in >> Houdini to set up hierarchical relationships of transform context? >> (Parenting for articulation purposes) >> >> >> >> I find I can use nulls or geometry in Network::Scene to do this but then >> I have to use transforms in Network::Geometry to do the same thing. But >> transforms in Network::Geometry also permit instancing of the geometry as >> well as transform relationships and the entire behavior of the network in >> Geometry seems to permit a higher degree of proceduralism than does the one >> at Network::Scene level. While none of this is necessarily problematic, it >> more fundamentally raises the question of “what is best practice?”. >> >> >> >> Should Geometry nodes be limited to only creating static objects and >> hierarchical articulations established only at Scene level? If so, what >> nodes are best used for transform hierarchies? >> >> >> >> Or is reasonable to arrange structures in Geometry nodes that permit >> transform articulations? The concern here is, of course, would such >> structures end up inadvertently duplicating or instancing geometry where I >> think I am setting up transform articulations instead? >> >> >> >> And am I left with the ability to create transform articulation >> hierarchies only in Network View and unable to create articulation >> hierarchies in Tree View? >> >> >> >> All thoughts or suggestions in this regard would be very welcome. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Joey Ponthieux >> >> >> >> __ >> >> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not >> >> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Softimage Mailing List. >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >> > > > -- > Softimage Mailing List. > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com > with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. > -- Softimage Mailing L
Re: Houdini hierarchical organization
Apologies for the rushed response as I'm heading out for an event. However, the tree view in Houdini is best viewed simply as an alternative data visualisation (best utilised a-z filtering). It's not an organisational view or a place where you manipulate data. Transform hierarchies should be created in the Network Editor and you can quickly traverse nesting structures via the tree view. In simple terms the Network Editor is where all major scene manipulations take place and the Tree View is provided to aid navigation in complex node structures. At least that's the way I've always worked in Houdini. ;) jm On 19 October 2017 at 16:47, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] < j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote: > Hello folks, > > > > I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context > of this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an > exclusive Houdini background. I’ve been trying to learn Houdini the past > several months and I’ve suddenly realized something that has me questioning > some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the > interface. > > > > To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object > hierarchical parenting relative transform relationship? > > > > I’ve discovered that I can create transform relationships just fine in > Network View, but that it has also taken some effort to realize what > happens in Network::Scene is both similar and dissimilar to what happens in > Network::Geometry and neither is exactly reflected the same way in Tree > View. A big part of the dissimilarities that I’m starting realize differ > on how, and when, a network produces transform relationships versus when it > permits procedural editing of object data. > > > > It seems that Tree View only depicts a kind of “container view” context. > Or rather, what is “inside” something else as opposed to what is the > parented relationship by transform or articulation context. Tree View is > great for finding and selecting something but more or less seems > ineffective in setting up a hierarchy of objects affected by transformation > relationships. I’m finding the only place I can do that is in Network View, > and that the nature of this changes in context somewhat depending upon > Network View’s active object context, whether its Scene or Geometry for > example. > > > > Which gets me to my next question, what and where is the proper way in > Houdini to set up hierarchical relationships of transform context? > (Parenting for articulation purposes) > > > > I find I can use nulls or geometry in Network::Scene to do this but then I > have to use transforms in Network::Geometry to do the same thing. But > transforms in Network::Geometry also permit instancing of the geometry as > well as transform relationships and the entire behavior of the network in > Geometry seems to permit a higher degree of proceduralism than does the one > at Network::Scene level. While none of this is necessarily problematic, it > more fundamentally raises the question of “what is best practice?”. > > > > Should Geometry nodes be limited to only creating static objects and > hierarchical articulations established only at Scene level? If so, what > nodes are best used for transform hierarchies? > > > > Or is reasonable to arrange structures in Geometry nodes that permit > transform articulations? The concern here is, of course, would such > structures end up inadvertently duplicating or instancing geometry where I > think I am setting up transform articulations instead? > > > > And am I left with the ability to create transform articulation > hierarchies only in Network View and unable to create articulation > hierarchies in Tree View? > > > > All thoughts or suggestions in this regard would be very welcome. > > > > -- > > Joey Ponthieux > > > > __ > > Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not > > represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. > > > > > > -- > Softimage Mailing List. > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com > with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. > -- Softimage Mailing List. To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
Houdini hierarchical organization
Hello folks, I figured people using Houdini on this list would understand the context of this question better, coming from a Softimage background, rather than an exclusive Houdini background. I've been trying to learn Houdini the past several months and I've suddenly realized something that has me questioning some things that may very well be misconceptions on my part, about the interface. To get right to it, is there a way to make Tree View represent object hierarchical parenting relative transform relationship? I've discovered that I can create transform relationships just fine in Network View, but that it has also taken some effort to realize what happens in Network::Scene is both similar and dissimilar to what happens in Network::Geometry and neither is exactly reflected the same way in Tree View. A big part of the dissimilarities that I'm starting realize differ on how, and when, a network produces transform relationships versus when it permits procedural editing of object data. It seems that Tree View only depicts a kind of "container view" context. Or rather, what is "inside" something else as opposed to what is the parented relationship by transform or articulation context. Tree View is great for finding and selecting something but more or less seems ineffective in setting up a hierarchy of objects affected by transformation relationships. I'm finding the only place I can do that is in Network View, and that the nature of this changes in context somewhat depending upon Network View's active object context, whether its Scene or Geometry for example. Which gets me to my next question, what and where is the proper way in Houdini to set up hierarchical relationships of transform context? (Parenting for articulation purposes) I find I can use nulls or geometry in Network::Scene to do this but then I have to use transforms in Network::Geometry to do the same thing. But transforms in Network::Geometry also permit instancing of the geometry as well as transform relationships and the entire behavior of the network in Geometry seems to permit a higher degree of proceduralism than does the one at Network::Scene level. While none of this is necessarily problematic, it more fundamentally raises the question of "what is best practice?". Should Geometry nodes be limited to only creating static objects and hierarchical articulations established only at Scene level? If so, what nodes are best used for transform hierarchies? Or is reasonable to arrange structures in Geometry nodes that permit transform articulations? The concern here is, of course, would such structures end up inadvertently duplicating or instancing geometry where I think I am setting up transform articulations instead? And am I left with the ability to create transform articulation hierarchies only in Network View and unable to create articulation hierarchies in Tree View? All thoughts or suggestions in this regard would be very welcome. -- Joey Ponthieux __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. -- Softimage Mailing List. To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
