Re: Sammie mods
Vance, From what Iunderstand, the cab and the saddle tank is one unit. Although Sammie generally looks appealing in standard trim, I personally like the idea of a wrapper painted Russian Iron and a wood cab. Sorry, but I don't have one yet. VR Bass wrote: (SNIP) The other detailing stuff is about the same for both. Just painting the cylinders black will work wonders for both of them. If someone would send me a Sammie to mess with, I could have a wood cab for it in a week or two. (Hint, hint.) The saddle tank is really nice, I think, though a rivet-punched wrapper would make it look more model-like. Add a headlight, some smokebox dogs, a more detailed number plate, you get the idea. With a sound running engine, all you have to worry about is the nit-picky stuff. -vance- -- Regards, Joe Betsko Pennsylvania USA Bala Cynwyd Railway: http://jsb.pennsy.home.att.net Primer for Novice Live Steamers: http://www.gardensteamers.com/tips.html iMac - Hey, I dont do windows!
Was: Aster Screwdriver Kit now LSA Meeting;
Hello, welcome to the first Live Steamers Anonyms; My name is Terry and I've got Steam in my veins. :-) Terry Griner Columbus Ohio USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/23/00 02:02PM And furthermore, with this hobby you don't have to go to those darn meetings!
Re: another simple Ruby mod
"Jonathan E. Bloom" wrote: FYI A modern wire EDM will hold tolerance to a couple tenths (of a thou.). They are remarkable. Jon Thanks, Jon, for the info. Now I want one. royce
Re: materials
Thanks for responding, Bob. I was beginning to think my questions weren't being posted. So is phosphor bronze the same as SAE 660 bearing bronze. I ask because 660 is easy to get anywhere, and if I ask for phosphor bronze, I know someone will ask me what composition I want. And then there's that dumb look on my face. . . again ! I've also got some "marine" bronze. From a propeller shaft about 2" in diameter. I think that it's supposed to have a bit more lead in it. royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/23/2000 11:17:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it wouldn't seem to be a good idea to have the same material for bearing/wearing surfaces. Any thoughts out there? I was always under the impression to use dissimilar metals for valve and sliding surfaces. I have used phos-bronze successfully for cylinders and CR for the pistons. But I have also built entirely out of brass too. Charlie Mynheir builds everything out of stainless, a bit too tough for my equipment. Bob
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Bob, Any idea as to relative cost/tolerance of water jet vs laser or EDM? royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/23/2000 3:21:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Water jet or laser are much preferable for most of the work we'd want to use it for. Many of my friends in the ride on scales are using water jet to cut their frames. It is excellent as there is little warpage. Bob
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Thanks for responding, Trent. All of this is very interesting to me. My questions have been posed because someday, I will have all the drawings and information necessary to build my loco (SP18) in quantity. The methods of manufacture available, their tolerance, and cost would determine how feasible such a project would be. Thanks for the perspective. royce Trent Dowler wrote: Hello Royce and all, At our shop we have "Bubba", who is pretty good with a torch, but his accuracy is +/- "aw, about so much" and not very fast at that. Depending on the erosion rate programmed, our wire EDM can hold +/-.0001" tolerance without a problem. Our sinker type EDM can hold about the same tolerance. Both machine's accuracy depends solely upon operator experience (and other factors that I won't get into here). We do not have a laser, but I have ordered parts that were laser burned and held +/- .015" tolerance in .05" thick stainless steel. I would tend to think that they are capable of much higher accuracies than that. Parts from our oxy/ocetylene burn table are expected to be held within +/- 1/16" of size, 1/32" parallelism within 36", and no more than 1/16" kerf in 2" thickness. Flatness can also be effected by the heat transferred into the part during the burn process. Our most experienced operator in the shop knows how to handle these problems before they develope. Good guy to have around. For those of you who are not familiar with wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining), the parts are cut with a thin brass wire that is .010" diameter. It doesn't matter how thick the part is, or how hard it is. The cutting is done by eroding the part's material away at a VERY controlled rate and position. It still amazes me every time I run ours. Later, Trent Royce Woodbury wrote: Salty, The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? royce
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-23 14:07:19 EST, you write: The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? Royce- The parts we got from the laser machines were within .002" or better. Hole diameters were very accurate to within +- 001". It really depends a lot on the type of material and the setup of the machine. I have seen the results of a wire feed EDM used at the Submarine Repair Facility in Bangor WA that held a tolerance of less than .005" but it was not nearly as fast as the laser. Salty
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-23 14:16:22 EST, you write: I'd be rich now instead of just good looking. Walt -- Just Keep telling yourself that and don't look in a mirror [:-) .
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 3/24/00 10:41:30 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? Last year at NAMES, they showed a piece of SS hypodermic needle that had been modified with an EDM, very intricate and precise cuts, and was now a STENT, Had to use a magnifying glass to see the cuts. This thing was cut in such a way that it could be expanded to a much larger size. The cuts were very intricate, and could only be seen with a magnifying glass. The thing was awesome to some who cuts with a chisel and a grinder. bill
Re: Sammie mods
In a message dated 00-03-23 23:34:15 EST, you write: If someone would send me a Sammie to mess with, I could have a wood cab for it in a week or two. Are you living in a dream world? Two questions. What are you smoking? and why aren't you sharing it? -- Good luck. [:-) salty
Lagging (was Re: Sammie mods) *long*
Sorry I'm entering this discussion late, I guess I was _lagging_ behind. Okay, bad joke, but I don't know any good ones. Anyway, I've lagged two boilers, including a pot boiler. (I just lagged the top, above the sidetanks.) It's really pretty simple. As Vance said, there are any number of materials available for lagging. My personal favorite is 1/8" cork. It resists heat well, and is fairly sturdy. The secret for lagging the boiler lies in the boiler bands. I tried rolling my own sheet out of .015" brass, but if you don't have a sheet metal roller, you will not get a good, smooth roll. Now, I have come to realize that you don't have to have thick wrapping material, just good boiler bands. I use .020" x 3/32 brass strip, annealed, then bent around a metal pipe about 3/4 the diameter of the boiler. The band will spring out a bit, leaving the curvature just about the same diameter that you need for a tight fit around the boiler. Take the ends of the band, and bend them out at 90 degree angles, so what you have resembles a closed horseshoe. Drill a hole through both of these tabs. That is where you will run your clamping screw to tighten the whole thing onto the boiler. Make as many of these as you need for your boiler - two, three, twenty (for those doing a really long articulated.) Now, here's where the fun comes in. Take some .005 brass or tin sheet, and cut it to the size you need to wrap your boiler. If you wish to chemically treat the wrapper now, you may want to do so. This will allow you to leave the bands polished, or at least not have "mask marks" where the bands are if you wait until after you lag the boiler. Now, if you want a slightly more "realistic" appearance to the lagging, you can take a page out of Sonni Honneger's (sp?) book...Take the sheet out to the driveway or gravel bed or something like that. Now, walk on it. This gives you a slightly scuffed look to the wrapper. If you look at a real locomotive, those wrappers are anything but smooth. Minor creases, dings, and other things are the order of the day here. The lighter you tread, the lighter the effect. Trust me, the effect is worth it. It really makes our locos look real, not just like miniatures. But, I digress... Once you have your wrapper, you can either attach the bands to the wrapper, or let them float. Your call. I find that attaching them makes for a stronger finished product. Place the lagging material (Whatever you end up choosing) around the boiler, then place the wrapper on the outside of that. Don't try to do each layer at once. Take time to make sure everything lines up properly. Tighten the screws at the bottom of the bands (which, I should mention) you want to locate on the underside of the boiler.), and secure everything in place. Viola, you have now lagged your boiler. Now - for some caveats... Boiler fittings such as domes, fill valves, etc., need to be accounted for. In most cases, the domes hide some feature of the boiler such as a goodall valve or safety valve. The domes are usually attached somehow to the fitting, not the boiler. If this is the case, just leave a hole in the lagging and wrapper to accommodate. Remember that you have just raised each piece 1/8" higher though, and may need to deal somehow with that. Cosmetic attachments to the boiler...All non-functional domes, generators, bells, whistles, handrail stantions, checkvalves, injectors...These need to be taken into consideration, as well. The best way to attach these is via a screw secured through the wrapper. If the wrapper is a bit thin (and .005 falls into this category) you may want to solder a small pad or washer on the underside to give it something to support itself. (Note, do not try to thread this - use a nut if you have to) Otherwise you are in extreme danger of ripping off your wrapper. It is not recommended that you try to carry your loco by any of these attachments. (Ask me how I know.) NOTE* You can use a thicker wrapper material if you so desire, but you have to be able to bend it - not something that's terribly easy to do, at least not in my experience. So, if anyone has anything to add, please do. I'm still looking for a good way to attach running boards to a boiler. Later, K
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-24 09:47:08 EST, you write: Any idea as to relative cost/tolerance of water jet vs laser or EDM? I am not Bob but I will do a little research on the subject and post it on the list. I have a number of sources that can supply the information. The question would be how thick of material and what kinds of material you intend to cut with it. You can reply off the list. Salty
Caboose Marker Lights
I just got a box of goodies from Ozark Minatures for a caboose and some flat cars that I am building. The marker lamps are not assembled and have six red lenses and two green lenses. Which way should the red lenses face in relation to the direction the caboose travels?? (I sure hope I don't start a fight here [:-) ) Salty
Re: materials
Royce, I pulled out my handy dandy Copper Alloy Guide, courtesy of Olin Mills. Unfortunately they cross Olin alloy numbers with ASTM specs. In any event, P-bronze is between 92% and 98% copper, and the balance being tin, with the exception of 0.1% Phosphor. Commercial bronze is 90% copper and 10% zinc. Brass can contain as much as 37% zinc and even a little lead, the balance being copper. A local bearing shop sells "bearing bronze" (SAE 660) as 85% copper, 6% tin, 8% lead and 1% zinc, +- 1% on most of the values. The lead makes for a slippery wear surface. Hope this helps. Jon - Original Message - From: Royce Woodbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 6:45 AM Subject: Re: materials Thanks for responding, Bob. I was beginning to think my questions weren't being posted. So is phosphor bronze the same as SAE 660 bearing bronze. I ask because 660 is easy to get anywhere, and if I ask for phosphor bronze, I know someone will ask me what composition I want. And then there's that dumb look on my face. . . again ! I've also got some "marine" bronze. From a propeller shaft about 2" in diameter. I think that it's supposed to have a bit more lead in it. royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/23/2000 11:17:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it wouldn't seem to be a good idea to have the same material for bearing/wearing surfaces. Any thoughts out there? I was always under the impression to use dissimilar metals for valve and sliding surfaces. I have used phos-bronze successfully for cylinders and CR for the pistons. But I have also built entirely out of brass too. Charlie Mynheir builds everything out of stainless, a bit too tough for my equipment. Bob
Re: Lagging (and running boards)
So, if anyone has anything to add, please do. I'm still looking for a good way to attach running boards to a boiler. Kevin, not much to add to that -- your comments echo what I have found most effective, and added some nice new twists. Thanks! Regarding securing running boards: the prototypes did it with brackets which were riveted to the boiler shell, under the lagging and jacket. This is probably not entirely practical for us, but there are a couple of ways to simulate that: the most straightforward would be to bend up a saddle shaped like the Greek letter "omega" which just lies across the boiler. You'll need to cut some sort of opening or notch for the brackets to protrude through, so the notched jacket and boiler bands should hold it well in place. Whether that would permit lifing the engine by the running boards probably depends on the thickness of the jacket you used. But you could make your brackets in two pieces, the aforementioned saddle and another similar one which would go under the boiler. They could be screwed together to give a really secure bracket. But a lot of people just screw L brackets onto the frames -- it doesn't show on most engines, anyway. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: minimum radius Climax by DJB Engineering
Fellow Live Steamers, I thought that you may be interested in the (tentative) outcome of the DJB Climax radius question. I spoke on the phone with my friend today and he is so desperate to get this loco that he actually considers (moving to another country...;) not I'm just joking here. Things are not that desperate but he does consider changing his rails to USA trains 3m radius instead of LGB R3 in case the Climax can't make it on R3 ... Pretty drastic if you ask me but then as Lloyd said this hobby is like gambling and other bad habits... I only wonder how he is going to fit this 3m radius in his back yard!! I think he has the same width as mine which is just over 6m wide... For a (live steam) addict there is no impossible thing it would seem... Happy steaming! Zbigniew Amsterdam PS I have no association with DJB (unfortunately) but they seem to have a very interesting British range and a few new US items. The (T-boiler 2 cylinder) Shay is so pretty!!
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Hello Royce and list, I've learned (the hard way) that you should always buy the most machine that you can afford, but don't tie up all your investment money into one machine that a smaller machine might have been better suited. You will have to find your own personal "happy medium". Look at the possible uses for the machine in the future. You might be able to afford an expensive machine right now, but will it be "overkill" or will it hold the required tolerances for current (or future) projects? Will it take all of your financial resources to buy the machine? What costs are going to require immediate attention to get your already large investment underway (cutters, other machines for support, wire, compressed air, material, toolholding system, larger building, different electrical power requirements, training, etc., etc.). In the same mindset, if you can only afford a tracer type oxy acetylene burn table, but your tolerances on current projects are far closer than what's possible with the oxy setup, save your money and your sanity. Pay (or better yet, trade, machine time with) someone else to do the jobs that are outside the scope of your equipment. Take in extra jobs that your machine is capable of. They don't have to be anything to do with your direct interest. Your local factories are obviously a good source for jobs. That way you can pay for your machine, and hopefully make enough above costs to afford another machine to pull more manufacturing back in-house. Hey, a flourishing business, what a concept! Why didn't I think of that before? grin Second hand machines can be both a blessing and a hardship. I've only been involved in 3 pieces of used equipment (out of about 15 or so) that performed as advertised when delivered. The problem machines can require a lot of time and addition costs to get in operation. You really have to have the mentality and resources to deal with some of it. On the up side, you sure learn a lot when something doesn't go as planned. Didn't mean to ramble. Hope all this helps, or at least saves you a headache or two. If you have specific questions, feel free to e-mail directly. Later, Trent
Re: Caboose Marker Lights
Ok, here's my two cents worth. I only know what I've seen in the past, and I'm far from up on the rules, why's, and how's. The models that I've noticed had the green lense forward, the rest red. Whoa! Before I sent this message I went and looked at another older O scale model that I have. It has the green lense outward. Let the lense games begin! Later, Trent
Simple R-H mod to valve gear
Tag, I acted on your suggestion and ordered the parts. It does look a lot better. Thanks! I wonder what other uncatalogued parts exist that only people who attend the AGMs or other similar events have the insider's or, at least, local knowledge. T A Gorton wrote:(SNIP) I would like to make the suggestion however that maybe you would like to fit the drop link, combination lever and larger crosshead set supplied by Roundhouse - but not advertised. I obviously don't know about your level of knowlege, so feel free to swipe me round the head if I am teaching you to suck eggs - but if you look at the most expensive Roundhouse locos, for instance the Sandy River and Rangely Lakes loco, you will see that it would appear to have FULL Walschaerts valve gear rather than the semi version fitted to most locos. In fact this set fitted to the more expensive locos is actually a dummy, but it is available from Roundhouse (and should be from your US agent) at only around 14uk pounds!! The fitting is simplicity itself. Remove the hex head crank pin holding the crosshead in place and discard small crosshead. Remove hex headed short crank pin from valve rod. Screw new crosshead and linkage into place using original crosshead crank pin and hook up linkage to the valve rod using the new long crank pin supplied. This job takes less than five minutes for both sides and improves the look of your running gear no end. Take a look in the catalogue at the different locos and you will see what I mean. -- Yours Aye Tag Gorton Longlands Western Railway Co Trematon Office Saltash Cornwall iMac + Amiga -- Regards, Joe Betsko Pennsylvania USA Bala Cynwyd Railway: http://jsb.pennsy.home.att.net Primer for Novice Live Steamers: http://www.gardensteamers.com/tips.html iMac - Hey, I dont do windows!
Re: photos
*chuckle* Actually, I just put the camera where I liked the effect. :] Thanks though! On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Royce Woodbury wrote: Dear Mr Fox, I must say you've mastered depth of field problems. Your photos of Ruby are fantastic! Thanks for sharing. Trot, the easily flattered, fox... TrotFox \ Always remember, /\-/\ AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a ( o o ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." \./
Ruby seals?
What does the Ruby have in the way of piston seals? Has anyone seen inside the cylendars? What about the piston valves? Are we looking at standard type rings? Really darned good milling? Trot, the suddenly curious, fox... TrotFox \ Always remember, /\-/\ AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a ( o o ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." \./
Re: Ruby seals?
What does the Ruby have in the way of piston seals? Haven't looked inside yet, but the usual is Viton o-rings. -vance-
