RE: Location location location of Splined Roadbed

[Gary Broeder]

>>
>> I think that in these discussions, which I personally like, it's
>> important to mention where you  live. 
>> Phil.P. Reading,PA.

Location of this splined roadbed is Morgan Hill, CA. Weather 15 degrees coldest 
winter, 115 hotest summer. 
Soil stays very moist in winter as area is beneath many trees. Peter Jones mentions 
doing splined roadbed in the 
wet, cold UK, although I have not read of many more there. Sam? From what I read many 
steamers do 
elevated lines in the cold, frosty East using  posts in/on concrete and as such I 
would think that an elevated 
splined roadbed could also be possible. Is the big problem the plywood running surface 
or the frost heave?
GaryB 

Re: Location location location of Splined Roadbed

[WaltSwartz]

Hi,
I'm not totally clear on the channels you constructed to divert the water. In 
my past career, we tried to keep the channels at about a 1 percent grade so 
that the bottom of the channel could be sodded over and not erode. If you are 
relying on the rock acting as a channel, it may be better to use a coarser 
gravel with more open pore spaces and non capillary channels to conduct the 
water. Using "geotextile" to line the channel before filling it with rock 
would also be advisable -- reduces erosion loss, etc.
Keep your steam up!
Mr. lunkenheimers employee, Walt 

Superelevated track that does work

[Gary Lane]

Thanks for posting your experience! I hope you write something for Garden
Railways to counter the article I read. Your observations make sense to me.
I also found that the wheels used by cars make a big difference. For example,
Gary Raymond wheels tend to derail the European two axle cars while they work
fine on four axle cars. It sure will be nice when someone compiles a book of all
the tricks so many have learned. It would save each of us having to reinvent
what others have already discovered.
~Gary

>
> My elevated track was built with a plastic deck on wood stringers.  I
> pitched the plastic by adjusting the stringers, all by eye, and have not
> experienced one derailment under any speed conditions.  I don't know why it
> wouldn't help running of the trains, to a point.  In any case, it sure looks
> neat seeing a train highballing through a turn while leaning into it.
>
> Jim
>
>
 

Re: Electric water pumping

[Carl H. Malone, O.D.]

Regarding pumping into a boiler, I think I recall someone using the guts of
one of those super range battery powered water guns. Might be worth a look.
I have tried the aircraft fuel pump idea and it doesnt generate enough
pressure to overcome the boiler back pressure.
For high pressure hose, I've had success using the tubing for model aircraft
pneumatic retractable landing gear. Works well for water hose plumbing or
butane line from the tender.

Carl

Carl Malone
Algerita Botanical Railway
San Angelo, Tx
 

Location location location of Splined Roadbed

[Gary Lane]

Weather elements determine home construction methods and our layouts should take
weather into consideration as well. In the Willamette Valley section of Oregon
we seldom have below zero weather that lasts...hence no appreciable frost heave.
We do have water logged earth, in my case clay soils of both red and blue clay.
I stapled the legs of the bents on top of small cement blocks called dobies by
stapling over the wires usually used to tie rebar to the dobie anchors. The
cement blocks "float" on top of 1/4" crushed rock base of 2"-4" depth. I hope
this system both anchors the trestle by weighted cement blocks and allows the
trestle to move on top of the crushed fines. The gravel is placed in small
pockets on part of the slope. For the section of the sloped yard that carries
rain run off I dug a trench the length of that section of trestle (some 25') and
filled the trench with 6"-12" of 1/4" minus crushed rock to help channel run
off.
Hope my description helps others think about their weather and yard situation.
I also fervently hope my design actually stands the test of years outdoors
without problems. I stayed awake a few nights trying to figure out designs I
thought would endure this rainy climate.
~Gary (the other Oregonian)

"Phil. Paskos" wrote:

> Hi Gary:
>
> One of the critical elements of what it is necessary to do to have a
> good roadbed is very dependent on where you live. The requirements of what
> works in PA. where I live and where Say someone like Walt Schwartz who lives
> in Florida can change what you have to do drastically.
>
> I think that in these discussions, which I personally like, it's
> important to mention where you  live. It's always fun to find out the
> different ways of building a track.
>
> Phil.P. Reading,PA.
>
> >
> > I have used this method back in 1986 when I first laid track. Some of the
> original trackage, complete with hand
> > laid code 172 rail, is still in  use. I used 7 pieces of  redwood lath
> 1/4" X 1 1/2". This was glued together with
> > West systems boat builders epoxy. I built a radius and straight clamping
> jig and as I recall only a few screws
> > here and there. I even did spline turnouts. Although the system did work
> well and tested against the elements it
> > was labor intensive. The  problem was that I  needed about 400 more feet
> of track and did not want to wait to
> > do all that labor I was also tired of hand laying all that track which led
> to the development of  Llagas Creek in
> > 1989.  I have since gone to 2 layers of 3/4 ext grade ply which has been
> treated with preservative.
> > It is a piece of cake to cut out with the jig saw and has lasted over 10
> years so far with no problems. Note here
> > that I  "hold down" all of my roadbed with small concrete piers every 3
> feet or so.
> > Gary Broeder
> >
>
 

Re: Splined Roadbed & Superelevated track

[Gary Lane]

No riding lawnmower. Better to use that money for trains!
I am converting the slope to plantings rather than grass.

"Phil. Paskos" wrote:

> How about awesome!  It would be worth coming to Oregon just to see that.
>
> Phil.P.
>
> >
> > WOW!  I'm impressed!  Bet you are v.e.r.y. careful with the riding mower
> > . . .  Charles
> >
> > Gary Lane wrote:
> > >
> > > For my 70 foot long trestle that reached 8 feet above ground I used
> splined
> > > cedar strips glued with Gorilla glue and staples to hold the curve until
> the
> > > glue set up.
> > >>snip<<
> > > Gary Lane
> > > http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy/ Pictures of the trestle
> > >
> >
>
 

Re: Electric water pumping station

[trotfox]

I think the issue of concern here was getting too much oxygen content in
the water.  I'm not sure where the pump outlet is on those sprayers but if
it is below the water line this could be something to worry about.  If
that is the case one could modify the pump such that it's outlet is at the
top of the canister.  :)  I like this idea, although those things are
quite bulky.  {:/

Trot, the idea-tossing, fox...

On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Charles Brumbelow wrote:

> Thinking further about pressurized pump-up containers . . .  What about
> a "new" container with built in pump such as one uses for bug spray and
> the like?  [I say "new" to avoid converting our steam locos into
> pesticide dispensers.]  A two to four gallon tank with one gallon of
> water would fill a boiler without much pressure drop, I would think. 
> They can be pumped up quite nicely and have a handle with a valve built
> in.  One would need to adapt the sprayer end to fit the boiler.
> 
> Charles 


 /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember,  
( o o )  AKA Landon Solomon   \ "There is a 
 >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
 

Re: Electric water pumping station

[Charles Brumbelow]

Thinking further about pressurized pump-up containers . . .  What about
a "new" container with built in pump such as one uses for bug spray and
the like?  [I say "new" to avoid converting our steam locos into
pesticide dispensers.]  A two to four gallon tank with one gallon of
water would fill a boiler without much pressure drop, I would think. 
They can be pumped up quite nicely and have a handle with a valve built
in.  One would need to adapt the sprayer end to fit the boiler.

Charles 

Re: Splined Roadbed & Superelevated track

[Phil. Paskos]

How about awesome!  It would be worth coming to Oregon just to see that.

Phil.P.

>
> WOW!  I'm impressed!  Bet you are v.e.r.y. careful with the riding mower
> . . .  Charles
>
> Gary Lane wrote:
> >
> > For my 70 foot long trestle that reached 8 feet above ground I used
splined
> > cedar strips glued with Gorilla glue and staples to hold the curve until
the
> > glue set up.
> >>snip<<
> > Gary Lane
> > http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy/ Pictures of the trestle
> >
>
 

Re: Splined Roadbed

[Phil. Paskos]

Hi Gary:

One of the critical elements of what it is necessary to do to have a
good roadbed is very dependent on where you live. The requirements of what
works in PA. where I live and where Say someone like Walt Schwartz who lives
in Florida can change what you have to do drastically.

I think that in these discussions, which I personally like, it's
important to mention where you  live. It's always fun to find out the
different ways of building a track.

Phil.P. Reading,PA.



>
> I have used this method back in 1986 when I first laid track. Some of the
original trackage, complete with hand
> laid code 172 rail, is still in  use. I used 7 pieces of  redwood lath
1/4" X 1 1/2". This was glued together with
> West systems boat builders epoxy. I built a radius and straight clamping
jig and as I recall only a few screws
> here and there. I even did spline turnouts. Although the system did work
well and tested against the elements it
> was labor intensive. The  problem was that I  needed about 400 more feet
of track and did not want to wait to
> do all that labor I was also tired of hand laying all that track which led
to the development of  Llagas Creek in
> 1989.  I have since gone to 2 layers of 3/4 ext grade ply which has been
treated with preservative.
> It is a piece of cake to cut out with the jig saw and has lasted over 10
years so far with no problems. Note here
> that I  "hold down" all of my roadbed with small concrete piers every 3
feet or so.
> Gary Broeder
>
 

RE: Ruby Run Time

[Ciambrone, Steve @ OS]

Thanks everyone for their responses, I bought the Ida and ran it a few times
over the weekend.  Fairly short run times but I know there is a learning
curve since, I have not had a gas burner before.   I am assuming that while
the butane tank gets warmer after startup the flow valve can be turned down
to extend the run time.  The warming of the tank causes an increase in
pressure in the fuel tank.

Need to install the R/C for the throttle, my four year old daughter found it
quite funny when Dad was chasing the little loco trying to slow it down.

Steve Ciambrone

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Saturday, December 16, 2000 8:23 AM
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
Subject:Re: Ruby Run Time

In a message dated 00-12-12 11:30:52 EST, you write:

<< What is the approximate run time of the Ruby Locomotive? >>

My Ruby is rather new with less than 10 hours steaming time.  On the
bench on 
blocks I get 18-20 minutes run time.  I have added a superheater and

rearranged some plumbing as well as a #3 gas jet.  Hopefully when I
get a 
little better at adjusting throttle and fuel I will be able to
extend the run 
time.
Salty 

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Re: Electric water pumping station

[Cgnr]

In a message dated 12/18/2000 1:11:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Subj:  Re: Electric water pumping station
>  Date:12/18/2000 1:11:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
>  From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Plasterer)
>  Sender:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Reply-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Multiple recipients of sslivesteam)
>  
>  Harbor Freight Salvage Co. sells a metal aerosol can that can be filled 
> with 
>  a liquid and then pressurized with an air comressor.  I wonder if this 
could 
> 
>  be used as a portable fill station?.  The cost of the can is only about 
>  $10.00
>  
>  Don Plasterer
>  
>  
>  >From: "David M. Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  >Subject: Re: Electric water pumping station
>  >Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:03:40 -0800
>  >
>  >At 6:07 PM -0800 12/17/00, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > >I can't see why this wouldn't work.  They usually run at around 35-35
>  > >PSI.  I guess it depends on what presure your boiler is at.  The only 
>  >prob
>  > >I can see is that the water would likely corode the pump after a
>  > >while... but I don't know that for sure.
>  >
>  >In a chat with Jack Verducci this afternoon, though I didn't bring up the
>  >specific idea of an electric pump, he said that has his refill bottles set
>  >at about 60 psi to be able to do the job "fast."
>  >
>  >\dmc
>  >
>  >
>  >^^^
>  >Dave Cole
>  >Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>  >   Pacifica, Calif. USA  
>  >
>  >List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>  >   
>  >Editor:   TRELLIS & TRESTLE, the newsletter of the
>  >   Bay Area Garden Railway Society 
>  >   
>  >Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers 
>  >   
>  >^^^
>  >
>  >
>  
>  _
>  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>   
>  
>  
>  --- Headers 
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>  Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:09:57 -0500
>  From: "Don Plasterer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: Electric water pumping station
>  
>  
That thing is a piece of crap!  The one I had leaked and did not work at all.
Bob
 

Re: Electric water pumping station

[SaltyChief]

In a message dated 00-12-18 05:40:16 EST, you write:

<< I need a goodall valve for my Ruby so I can play with this stuff!
  >>
Try Sulphur Spriings, that is where I got mine for my Ruby, along with a #3 
gas jet.

Salty 

Re: Electric water pumping station

[Don Plasterer]

Harbor Freight Salvage Co. sells a metal aerosol can that can be filled with 
a liquid and then pressurized with an air comressor.  I wonder if this could 
be used as a portable fill station?.  The cost of the can is only about 
$10.00

Don Plasterer


>From: "David M. Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Electric water pumping station
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:03:40 -0800
>
>At 6:07 PM -0800 12/17/00, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I can't see why this wouldn't work.  They usually run at around 35-35
> >PSI.  I guess it depends on what presure your boiler is at.  The only 
>prob
> >I can see is that the water would likely corode the pump after a
> >while... but I don't know that for sure.
>
>In a chat with Jack Verducci this afternoon, though I didn't bring up the
>specific idea of an electric pump, he said that has his refill bottles set
>at about 60 psi to be able to do the job "fast."
>
>\dmc
>
>
>^^^
>Dave Cole
>Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>   Pacifica, Calif. USA  
>
>List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>   
>Editor:   TRELLIS & TRESTLE, the newsletter of the
>   Bay Area Garden Railway Society 
>   
>Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers 
>   
>^^^
>
>

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 

Re: Splined Roadbed & Superelevated track

[Jim Curry]

>Regarding superelevation:  I read in Garden Railways that superelevation
does not work well for our size trains. I believe part of the problem was
simply the lack of weight and the much simpler or non existent suspension
systems of our models. The article indicated more derailments occur with
super-elevated track than with flat track.<

I've had two railways, one ground level, the other elevated 3' on posts.  I
tried superelevation on the ground but found that the track(floating on
ballast) would get so moved around due to frost, ballast settlement, etc.
that superelevation was a problem even for reasonably slow running trains.
My elevated track was built with a plastic deck on wood stringers.  I
pitched the plastic by adjusting the stringers, all by eye, and have not
experienced one derailment under any speed conditions.  I don't know why it
wouldn't help running of the trains, to a point.  In any case, it sure looks
neat seeing a train highballing through a turn while leaning into it.

Jim


 

RE: Electric water pumping station

[trotfox]

I got to thinking earlier in the night and thought this up.  If the worry
with using pressurised pump-up cans is for air in the water why not have a
seperate pump-can and water container?  When at home those of us who are
so endowed can use a line from the air-compressor to replace it.  Build
the can such that it's outlet is taken from down low and it's inlet is
high enough that the water won't be bubbled and airated while it's
charged.  Use the airflow to regulate the amount of water moved an you
don't have to leave the water canister pressurised.  I have a bycicle tire
pump that I used to use as an air supply for my LEGO engine and is capable
of over 100 PSI.  

I could also see using a steam operated pump.  It could be built to look
and work like an air compressor.  :)  I don't have the tooling to build
one but it seems like an intereting project.  ;]

I suppose the R/C car drive could be done.  I once built an aquarium air 
pump using all stock LEGO parts that sounds like what you are
suggesting.  It converted the rotory power from an electric motor, after
lots of gearing down, into reciprocating motion for an air pump (there's
nothing mechanical that can't be done with LEGOs. ;] )

I need a goodall valve for my Ruby so I can play with this stuff!

Trot, the fox who wonders at the possibilities...

On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Susan Parker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Having been pondering this problem a while I was wondering whether a 
> possible solution was to electrify a hand or axle pump (perhaps using a 
> motor (and gearbox?) from a R/C controlled car)? These are designed to pump 
> water into a pressurized boiler, so should work reliably(?).
> 
> This unit can then be run off a small rechargeable battery pack, perhaps 
> with a timer on the control to let it run for so many seconds or minutes. 
> Automatic water level detection would also be possible, but working on the 
> principle of KISS, probably serious overkill.
> 
> I guess using a steam injector isn't possible as the locomotive boiler 
> pressures are on the low side. But perhaps using an auxiliary steam driven 
> pump might be?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Susan.


 /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember,  
( o o )  AKA Landon Solomon   \ "There is a 
 >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
 

RE: Electric water pumping station

[Susan Parker]

Hi,

Having been pondering this problem a while I was wondering whether a 
possible solution was to electrify a hand or axle pump (perhaps using a 
motor (and gearbox?) from a R/C controlled car)? These are designed to pump 
water into a pressurized boiler, so should work reliably(?).

This unit can then be run off a small rechargeable battery pack, perhaps 
with a timer on the control to let it run for so many seconds or minutes. 
Automatic water level detection would also be possible, but working on the 
principle of KISS, probably serious overkill.

I guess using a steam injector isn't possible as the locomotive boiler 
pressures are on the low side. But perhaps using an auxiliary steam driven 
pump might be?

Best wishes,
Susan.