Re: "Mimi" inaugural run

[adriansherrill]

it's been a few weeks tom.  what are your continued impressions of mimi?
> I picked up a Ruby #4 2-4-2 ("Mimi") several weeks ago and after taking
> delivery of the requisite steam and lubricating oils with some handy
> dispensing bottles, I went over to a friend's house today to make an
> inaugural run on his garden layout.
> 
> First, we set up the engine on a set of bearing blocks to see how it ran
> without us having to chase it all over creation; I filled up everything and
> lit the burner, then oiled it up while the boiler got hot.  It only took a
> few minutes to get up to 30PSI, despite being in the low 40's.  I opened the
> throttle and the drivers actually turned a couple of revolutions, amazing my
> (electric loco) friend.  They then stopped and I turned them manually to
> clear the water out of the cylinders, and with a little hissing and popping
> the engine slowly started to build up speed on the static test stand.  After
> about 30 seconds, it was ticking along at an impressive rate.
> 
> We let it run there for a minute or so, then I throttled it back and carried
> it over to the mainline track.  Opening the throttle a little, it started
> moving along the track.  I had to adjust the throttle a few times as it came
> to some slight grades, but it did quite well.  It did derail at one switch
> that was in the wrong position and seemed to have a bit of a discontinuity
> where it joined the track at one end (this is at the bottom of a long
> down-grade and the engine was really flying along!)
> 
> On the second run, we added the tender and performance seemed pretty much
> unaffected.
> 
> We did three runs before I emptied my Ronson butane bottle.
> 
> Observations:
> 
> 1) My friend was blown away by the performance of the engine.  He figured it
> would take a few runs before the thing was really broken in, but it ran
> great from the word "go".
> 
> 2) I need to get a really long-needled syringe to extract the water from the
> bottom of the lubricator.  I was using the small syringe that came with the
> engine with a short length of aquarium air tubing, and by the time you
> lowered it to the bottom of the reservoir, it was displacing the oil out.
> Also, there isn't that much water in the bottom of the reservoir after a run
> or two, so I can't see doing it more than every two or three runs.
> 
> 3) I need to get radio control on it before the next run.  Even small grade
> changes require throttle adjustment to prevent stalling or runaways.
> Anybody have a link to a website showing a good, clean installation in a
> Ruby cab?
> 
> 4) I'm going to have a heck of a lot of fun with this thing.  I held off
> getting into garden railroading until I could get a live steam loco, and I'm
> glad I did.
> 
> -Tom
> 
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> 
>   

Re: Fn3

[Gary]

OK, so I choose 1:20 scale. Why do so many choose cars scaled 1:24 rather
than 1:18 for their narrow guage layouts?  1:18 is closer to 1:20 than 1:24
is to 1:20.
Just curious.
Gary - chilling in Eugene, Oregon
http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor

- Original Message -
From: Vance Bass
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fn3


On 11 Dec 2002 at 13:52, Gary wrote:
> Of course trains could be made in 1:18, 1:24, 1:32 and have track
> guaged to match.

Obviously, going to a track gauge other then 45mm would make the most sense
from some standpoints, but it's the least likely thing to happen, IMO.

So, we go to the scales that work for 45mm gauge, and see what we get.  1:20
is
already well-known (and loved?) among model railroaders.  Other accessories
available include Hubley cars from the 1920s and ... ummm ... oh, never
mind.

What about 1:16 or 1:18 scale?  Divide 750mm (~30") by 16 or 18 and you get
46.8mm or 41.6mm -- close enough?  There were hundreds of 30" gauge
railroads
in the Americas, and thousands of Baldwin and Also locos made for them.  I
have
to say, this is a BIG temptation for me, since there are also a lot of cars
and
trucks available in those scales, too.

You can go through the same exercises with 1:24, 1:12, et al., but in the
end,
the only ones that work are 1:32 (for which the gauge was intended) and a
bunch
of screwy made-up scales that try to stick a fat foot into a glass slipper.
It's pretty depressing, unless you take the approach that you are going to
have
a simple railway, one that's short on quantity, but long on quality (because
it's all going to be scratchbuilt).

Which brings us back to track.  If you want to use all those commercially
available vehicles, then pick a scale with a lot of products you like, then
start laying track to that scale.  I don't think we're going to see anyone
abandoning the commercial train scales in our lifetimes, since there's so
much
investment in equipment (mfrs) and products (us) already.

regards,
  -vance-

Vance Bass
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass

 

Re: Fn3

[Phil Paskos]

Ahh. Yes. At least we all run 45 mm for Gauge-1. I think. None of the
Roundhouse Literature that I've seen tells you what the SR& RL #24 is. It
doesn't bother me and most of the LGB and USA rolling stock I use behind
mine looks good to my eye. And that's all I care about.

VBG - Phil

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Fn3
>
>
> > So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
>
> 7/8n2 presumably!
>
> It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
> nomenclatures?
> For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the
prototype
> (correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in
mm,
> eg. 20.3/45
>
> Art Walker
>
>
>
 

Re: Fn3

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi All.

Answers interspersedAt 05:25 PM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Geoff,
   If you have any more 10mm "stuff' you are giving away, then we need to 
talk!.

   Question - (Brit to Brit Monty Python humour, and not strictly 
"politically correct").
   With both my Britannia and Duchess at 10mm, does running them on 45mm 
track qualify them as narrow gauge engines?.


Yes according to the I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** - but NOT in the one true scale 
(WETI)

**See end of Message

   Does .018" per foot difference warrant a total systems review and 
teardown?.
   I have seen commercial 45mm rail sections supplied with a .035" - 
.040" variation in rail gauge tolerance, which by default eats up 50% of 
the 3/8 vs. 10mm variance.


YES see the I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** Manifesto


   Do I need a coal sieve to separate the 3/8 coal from the 10mm grains!!!?


Yes - see I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** above


   Will a 3/8 scale engine run ok on 10mm scale coal!!!?


Not if it is a true scale engine - see the subsection entitled "Repeal of 
the Laws of Physics" in the I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** Manifesto.

   Is it ok to drive my engines on the left hand side while in the US?. 
(Think about this one).
   Etc, Etc, Etc,


No R/H bias only.


   TTFN.
   Regards,
Tony D.


**  I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C. is the International Federation Of Rivet Counters 
Regulatory And Enforcement Commission . (aka Commissar.).

Jim Gregg.

At 09:42 AM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote:

Sir Art and  Terry,

Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these
confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both  the locos and  the
track. (Please,  no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32
of 4' 8-1/2")  No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my
10mm stuff real cheap!

Of course as far as some  steam NG stuff and  my sparkies are
concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there?

Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs,
but it never seems to get through.

I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale?  that is the
question.   The answer  lies in your satisfaction .


Geoff.







Here here Art!
><>
>
>> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
>
>7/8n2 presumably!
>
>It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
>nomenclatures?
>For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the 
prototype
>(correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
>e.g. 20.3/45
>
>Art Walker
>
>
>

Re: Fn3

[Daniel McGrath]

Mums the word, Gary. Similar deal in New Jersey. Occupational therapy be 
darned, Manifest Destiney in 1:20:3,  look out and beware Cecil Rhodes, my 
track is on order

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Re: Fn3

[Gary]

Not from city hall nor the environmental freaks! I failed to file an
environmental impact report before cogitating.  Since environMENTAL deals
with "mental" I am subject to censure and any other penalties they might
consider.  Oh, don't tell anyone I cut down 32 trees 6" or larger in my yard
over the last eight years.
Gary - chilling in Eugene, Oregon
http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor


- Original Message -
From: Daniel McGrath
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Fn3




>Gary, Do you have a permit to cogitate in Eugene, Oregon?


_
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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OT: Hold my List Mail

[Dave Cole]

Dave-

Please withhold all  message distribution to me until after
December 26, when I'll be able to access them again.

Have a Happy Holiday Season!


all hands:

should you want to put your list messages on hold for the holidays, 
please consider sending a blank message to the following address (not 
to me and certainly not to the whole list):

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

when you're ready to starting getting mail again, merely send another 
blank e-mail to

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

thanks.

\dmc

--
^^^
Dave Cole
Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
  Pacifica, Calif. USA  
List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
  

^^^ 

Re: Hold my List Mail

[ErnieW]

Dave-

Please withhold all  message distribution to me until after 
December 26, when I'll be able to access them again.

Have a Happy Holiday Season!

Ernie Wortmann  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Re: Fn3

[Geoff Spenceley]

Hi Tony,

All 10mm are gone, they were assembled from kits by me which made them junk!

Running yer 10mm locos on 45mm is perfect if you are happy--we have to
accomodate the Brits, just as we did with their OO. Wot's a slight
discrepancy of .018? It would take more than that to discourage me if I had
beautiful 10mm coal fired locos.

As for the other stuff you mention, the wrong size coal really concerns
me--the rest is above my mentality.  Then you wrote:

>Is it ok to drive my engines on the left hand side while in the US?.
>(Think about this one).

I'm still thinking!! and thinking.

 TTFN--is that a new scale--FN on TT track?

10mm to you too,

Geoff.

Hi Geoff,
>If you have any more 10mm "stuff' you are giving away, then we need to
>talk!.
>
>Question - (Brit to Brit Monty Python humour, and not strictly
>"politically correct").
>With both my Britannia and Duchess at 10mm, does running them on 45mm
>track qualify them as narrow gauge engines?.
>Does .018" per foot difference warrant a total systems review and
>teardown?.
>I have seen commercial 45mm rail sections supplied with a .035" - .040"
>variation in rail gauge tolerance, which by default eats up 50% of the 3/8
>vs. 10mm variance.
>Do I need a coal sieve to separate the 3/8 coal from the 10mm grains!!!?
>Will a 3/8 scale engine run ok on 10mm scale coal!!!?
>Is it ok to drive my engines on the left hand side while in the US?.
>(Think about this one).
>Etc, Etc, Etc,
>TTFN.
>Regards,
> Tony D.
>

>


 

Re: Fn3

[Daniel McGrath]

I suspect the cooks have finished the Strawberrys.  Otherwise, make steam 
and set course for Donovan's Reef, I understand there is a fellow running 
Lionel type trains infront of a saloon, what more can you ask for except 
"Live Steam"?   It's too late, Cabin Fever!

_
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Re: Fn3

[WaltSwartz]

McGrath wrote, and Spenceley answered, they spend their time counting Kermit 
speak! 
Rivit...rivitrivitrivitand on ad nauseum!
and they play with Barby Dolls! Do Ken and Barbie co-habit the "combine?"
This is model railroading? I guess they are trying to "Keep their steam 
up!!! 

Re: Fn3

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
   If you have any more 10mm "stuff' you are giving away, then we need to 
talk!.

   Question - (Brit to Brit Monty Python humour, and not strictly 
"politically correct").
   With both my Britannia and Duchess at 10mm, does running them on 45mm 
track qualify them as narrow gauge engines?.
   Does .018" per foot difference warrant a total systems review and 
teardown?.
   I have seen commercial 45mm rail sections supplied with a .035" - .040" 
variation in rail gauge tolerance, which by default eats up 50% of the 3/8 
vs. 10mm variance.
   Do I need a coal sieve to separate the 3/8 coal from the 10mm grains!!!?
   Will a 3/8 scale engine run ok on 10mm scale coal!!!?
   Is it ok to drive my engines on the left hand side while in the US?. 
(Think about this one).
   Etc, Etc, Etc,
   TTFN.
   Regards,
Tony D.

At 09:42 AM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
Sir Art and  Terry,

Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these
confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both  the locos and  the
track. (Please,  no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32
of 4' 8-1/2")  No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my
10mm stuff real cheap!

Of course as far as some  steam NG stuff and  my sparkies are
concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there?

Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs,
but it never seems to get through.

I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale?  that is the
question.   The answer  lies in your satisfaction .


Geoff.







Here here Art!
><>
>
>> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
>
>7/8n2 presumably!
>
>It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
>nomenclatures?
>For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
>(correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
>e.g. 20.3/45
>
>Art Walker
>
>
>

Re: Fn3

[Jim Stapleton]

Gee 

I thought a GG1 was standard gage ELECTRIC.  Steam oil for the boiler that
makes steam heat for the trailing cars?  Not usually.  Confusion reigns in
VA for this SPF.

BTW, Green boilered K-27 #461, ser#36 due to be delivered on 12/18/02 from
Accu.  May have to run on the weekend if the ice isn't too heavy.

Jim
===
At 07:38 PM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>
>  Ahem, steam oil, GG1, could be some sort of plot afoot

Jim & Jo Anne Stapleton
Purcellville  VA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Re: Fn3

[Geoff Spenceley]

Gary,

The only way to happily resolve these problems is to use imagination, or as
an alternative, change the hobby to Barbie Dolls. In fact I have  two mini
Barbie dolls which go quite well with 16mm  (1/19th), 1:20 1:18, 1:20.3,
1:29, 1:24, even 1:32--if yers uses yers imagination!

 Re your "apology" Mr Simon--I told you that you had opened a can of
worms. That's two cans to date, so you are now appointed as our "official
supplier of worms".  Good Show, this group is a complicated bunch of
steamers, it's just lovely--we learn something every day--wish I could
remember it all, or where I filed it!

 Mr McGrath,  you wrote:

"Ah yes, Satisfaction, that's the whole thing! For the hard-core rivit
counters, tally on! Myself, I've got more than enough real life concerns
like "where are my strawberrys?"

Send me some strawberrys!  I shall now play one of my favorite "Rolling
Stone" songs "Satisfaction".


Geoff.




Of course the debate is hot and seems to be destined to remain just a
>debate. If suppose as more detail and scale correct products exist, if
>buyers actually place money on the scale table, then manufacturers will
>simply follow the money.
>
>I wish that cars, trucks, tanks, farm equipment, heavy equipment and other
>model makers would find a way to make items that are in scale with our
>trains. Of course trains could be made in 1:18, 1:24, 1:32 and have track
>guaged to match. Offering dual guage track might help settle the scale
>question too. 1:32 seems to have no problem. It is the narrow guage  models
>that "have to" run on Guage 1 track that has led to scale debate and
>confusion. If narrow guage simply was in the same scale, but ran on narrower
>guage track, the problem would solve itself?
>
>I predict a flurry of heated responses will soon fill this list.
>Gary - Cogitating in Eugene, Oregon
>http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
>http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
>


 

Re: Fn3

[Daniel McGrath]

 Ahem, steam oil, GG1, could be some sort of plot afoot









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Re: Fn3

[Daniel McGrath]

Gary, Do you have a permit to cogitate in Eugene, Oregon?



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Re: Fn3

[John Simon]

I'm so sorry for causing all these problems to you all.  All I wanted to know
was which is the better grade steam oil to use in my GGE #1 loco's.
I really didn't mean to get you all upset and...
(heh, heh!  snigger!)




  73, John de VK2XGJ
  General Manager
Elk River & Cheat Mountain  Railroad


- Original Message -
From: "Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: Fn3


> Of course the debate is hot and seems to be destined to remain just a
> debate. If suppose as more detail and scale correct products exist, if
> buyers actually place money on the scale table, then manufacturers will
> simply follow the money.
>
> I wish that cars, trucks, tanks, farm equipment, heavy equipment and other
> model makers would find a way to make items that are in scale with our
> trains. Of course trains could be made in 1:18, 1:24, 1:32 and have track
> guaged to match. Offering dual guage track might help settle the scale
> question too. 1:32 seems to have no problem. It is the narrow guage  models
> that "have to" run on Guage 1 track that has led to scale debate and
> confusion. If narrow guage simply was in the same scale, but ran on narrower
> guage track, the problem would solve itself?
>
> I predict a flurry of heated responses will soon fill this list.
> Gary - Cogitating in Eugene, Oregon
> http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
> http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
>
 

Re: Fn3

[Daniel McGrath]

Ah yes, Satisfaction, that's the whole thing! For the hard-core rivit 
counters, tally on! Myself, I've got more than enough real life concerns 
like "where are my strawberrys?"


_
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Re: Fn3

[TrotFox Greyfoot]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Kevin Strong wrote:

> If Aristo's proposed live steam loco comes in a box marked "LS29," I
> will be both amazed and highly pleased. Not because it's a much needed
> low-cost standard gauge steamer, but because it shows that they're
> demonstrating some commitment to segregating and clarifying their large
> scale offerings which by then will be available in _three_ scales -
> 1:29, 1:24, and 1:20.3.

Interestingly (to me) that box would need to be labeled LS20 as Lewis
mentioned on his board that the loco will be a 3'er.  I had hoped for a
mainline loco, but I will have to continue waiting for that.  ;]

Trot, the fox who'll end up with an American project yet...  };]


 /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember,
( o o )  AKA Landon Solomon   \ "There is a
 >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." 

Re: Fn3

[Vance Bass]

On 11 Dec 2002 at 13:52, Gary wrote:
> Of course trains could be made in 1:18, 1:24, 1:32 and have track
> guaged to match.

Obviously, going to a track gauge other then 45mm would make the most sense 
from some standpoints, but it's the least likely thing to happen, IMO.

So, we go to the scales that work for 45mm gauge, and see what we get.  1:20 is 
already well-known (and loved?) among model railroaders.  Other accessories 
available include Hubley cars from the 1920s and ... ummm ... oh, never mind.

What about 1:16 or 1:18 scale?  Divide 750mm (~30") by 16 or 18 and you get 
46.8mm or 41.6mm -- close enough?  There were hundreds of 30" gauge railroads 
in the Americas, and thousands of Baldwin and Also locos made for them.  I have 
to say, this is a BIG temptation for me, since there are also a lot of cars and 
trucks available in those scales, too.

You can go through the same exercises with 1:24, 1:12, et al., but in the end, 
the only ones that work are 1:32 (for which the gauge was intended) and a bunch 
of screwy made-up scales that try to stick a fat foot into a glass slipper.  
It's pretty depressing, unless you take the approach that you are going to have 
a simple railway, one that's short on quantity, but long on quality (because 
it's all going to be scratchbuilt).

Which brings us back to track.  If you want to use all those commercially 
available vehicles, then pick a scale with a lot of products you like, then 
start laying track to that scale.  I don't think we're going to see anyone 
abandoning the commercial train scales in our lifetimes, since there's so much 
investment in equipment (mfrs) and products (us) already.

regards,
  -vance-

Vance Bass
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
 

Fn3

[Gary]

Of course the debate is hot and seems to be destined to remain just a
debate. If suppose as more detail and scale correct products exist, if
buyers actually place money on the scale table, then manufacturers will
simply follow the money.

I wish that cars, trucks, tanks, farm equipment, heavy equipment and other
model makers would find a way to make items that are in scale with our
trains. Of course trains could be made in 1:18, 1:24, 1:32 and have track
guaged to match. Offering dual guage track might help settle the scale
question too. 1:32 seems to have no problem. It is the narrow guage  models
that "have to" run on Guage 1 track that has led to scale debate and
confusion. If narrow guage simply was in the same scale, but ran on narrower
guage track, the problem would solve itself?

I predict a flurry of heated responses will soon fill this list.
Gary - Cogitating in Eugene, Oregon
http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
 

ER & CM

[Gary]

Gosh John, I do love your moxy.
Now if my shay comes for two months, my wife and I tend to tag along...
Always wanted to visit Australia and New Zealand as well!
Gary - Eugene, Oregon
http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor


- Original Message -
From: John Simon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:27 AM


Hi Gary, the ER&CM is in the back room of my house and in my back yard here
in
Dapto New South Wales, Australia.
Well if I can't get the Shay for six months, how about  two months?B-)




  73, John de VK2XGJ
  General Manager
Elk River & Cheat Mountain  Railroad
 

Re: Fn3

[john flynn]

On Wednesday 11 December 2002 12:42 pm, you wrote:
> Sir Art and  Terry,
>
> Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these
> confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both  the locos and  the
> track. (Please,  no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32
> of 4' 8-1/2")  No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my
> 10mm stuff real cheap!
>
> Of course as far as some  steam NG stuff and  my sparkies are
> concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there?
>
> Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs,
> but it never seems to get through.
>
> I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale?  that is the
> question.   The answer  lies in your satisfaction .
>
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here here Art!
>
> ><>
> >
> >> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
> >
> >7/8n2 presumably!
> >
> >It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
> >nomenclatures?
> >For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the
> > prototype (correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track
> > gauge in mm, e.g. 20.3/45
> >
> >Art Walker

Re: Fn3

[Kevin Strong]

> >
> > It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
> > nomenclatures?
> > For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
> > (correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
> > e.g. 20.3/45
> >


A system similar to that was proposed a few years ago here in the states
as a way to make things a bit clearer. "LS##" where the ## would be the
scale; 1:20.3 would be LS20, 1:32 would be LS32, and so on. I don't know
where it originated, but for a while Aristocraft was marking their boxes
like that. 

For some reason, the other manufacturers didn't hope on the bandwagon,
and the system seems to have died a premature and unfortunate death.
Pity, as it's the only system I've seen that actually makes any amount
of sense. 

With more and more players entering the live steam arena, this scale
debacle is quickly going to pollute our otherwise distilled waters.
There are a good number of days I want to gather each manufacturer in a
room and beat them over the head for not getting together and
standardizing on at least a clear, easy to understand identification
system. 

While live steam is still primarily a craftsman's hobby, the recent rash
of low-cost easy to run locos has the potential of changing that. (Much
for the better, though it may make getting a room at DH all the more
difficult.) Up to now, we as a niche market have been able to keep close
tabs on "our" manufacturers, and make sure they adhere to clearly noting
the scale, or at least getting the information out as to what
scale/gauge it is. 

If Aristo's proposed live steam loco comes in a box marked "LS29," I
will be both amazed and highly pleased. Not because it's a much needed
low-cost standard gauge steamer, but because it shows that they're
demonstrating some commitment to segregating and clarifying their large
scale offerings which by then will be available in _three_ scales -
1:29, 1:24, and 1:20.3.

One can only hope others would follow suit. I think, however, it will
take significant pressure from hobbyists, publications, and clubs and
organizations to get everyone on one page. That, or a really big sledge
hammer. 

Later,

K 

Re: Steam oil

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Thanks ,Tony,

However the running of the F.S may interfere with viewing the shays! The
Bay Area Steamup seems to be a good time--is it going to be in Sacramento??

Geoff


Hi Geoff,
>In view of the 300 mile trip. And I think these Railroads my be closed
>already for the winter season. However, next summer, you could make a
>vacation out of visiting these working Shays, or at the Bay Area live
>Steamup at Sacremento in July 2003. And you are welcome to use my place in
>the Bay Area as central base. Or you could make a round trip, and stop over
>at my place, for a "rest"  and run your Scotsman.
>See Ya,
>Tony D.
>
>At 09:39 AM 12/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>  Tony lad,
>>
>>Yes, but in Northern northern northern Ca, we are about 300 miles north of
>>any of those spots. We have no geared locos that operate except at Fort
>>Humboldt.  I did "drive" a heisler in a restricted Simpson  yard. --about
>>100ft as that was the only available track--there were no brakes. so one
>>used the johnson bar!!
>>
>>Geoff.
>>
>>
>> >Hi Geoffrey,
>> >Is there a problem finding 1;1 working Shays and other
>> >narrow  gauge/gage logging engines in mid California?.
>> >I know of at least three working operational narrow gauge Shays, within
>> >"easy" travelling distance of the Bay Area. All of which run to daily
>> >summer schedules. (Not just static museum pieces). e.g.
>> >Sugar Pine Railroad, southern border of Yosemite. 4-5 hour drive from
>> >Bay Area
>> >Jamestown RailRoad, west of Yosemite border.  3-4 hour drive from Bay
>> >Area. (Static Also)
>> >Roaring Camp Park RailRoad, near Santa Cruz, south of San Jose. 45-60
>> >mins from San Jose. (Has both a Shay and Climax).
>> >
>> >I would surmise that a  new VW Bug could achieve these distances in the
>> >given time!. I know my Winnebago can (but even when running, is far from
>> >opulent!).
>> >See Ya.
>> >Tony D.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >JamestownAt 05:55 PM 12/9/02 -0800, Dave Cole wrote:
>> >>At 4:55 PM -0800 12/9/02, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>> >>>Let this be the finish--right Dave??
>> >>
>> >>right. allow me to say: on this list, only people from australia can call
>> >>it "oz." all others must use the term "antipodes" (which i've always
>> loved).
>> >>
>> >>>My  local steam friends run all NG stuff--including shays and heislers,
>> >>>just as the local timber industries used yesteryear. We have a few old
>> >>>prototype ones lying around here and there. None running- if someone says
>> >>>there are some running, I  would clarify that I am writing about rural
>> >>>Northwest Northern California, 100 miles below the Oregon
>>border.--not the
>> >>>opulent Bay area!
>> >>
>> >>actually, i know of no narrow gauge full-scale live steam in the bay area
>> >>-- niles canyon is standard gauge, as is the golden gate railroad museum.
>> >>the narrow gauge stuff is down in santa cruz county, which is almost as
>> >>far away as northwest northern california.
>> >>
>> >>but doesn't the northern counties logging interpretive association have an
>> >>engine that is run at fort humboldt? i can't find a specific reference to
>> >>a specific engine, but it appears that in may through september, the group
>> >>had something it called "steam-ups" where "train rides will be given."
>> >>maybe the steam that gets up is on a stationary engine and the rides are
>> >>on something of a gasoline or diesel variety.
>> >>
>> >>\dmc
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>^^^
>> >>Dave Cole
>> >>Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>> >>   Pacifica, Calif. USA 
>> 
>> >>List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>> >>   
>> >>
>> >>^^^
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>


 

Re: WAS: Fn3 NOW:scale/choice

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Terry,

So yer happy with it--good for you! Yes 1/24 scale doesn't need a
calculator for conversion--nor does 1/32 (unless you are me!)

Geoff.

Geoff
>  I have followed your lead. I have a Accucraft Ida, and am working in
>1:24 scale for buildings. (It makes conversion of plans fairly easy)
>I adhere to the 10 foot/3 meter rule.
>Terry Griner
>Columbus Ohio USA
>
>
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/11/02 12:42PM >>>
>Sir Art and  Terry,
>
>Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these
>confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both  the locos and  the
>track. (Please,  no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32
>of 4' 8-1/2")  No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my
>10mm stuff real cheap!
>
>Of course as far as some  steam NG stuff and  my sparkies are
>concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there?
>
>Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs,
>but it never seems to get through.
>
>I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale?  that is the
>question.   The answer  lies in your satisfaction .
>
>
>Geoff.



 

Re: Video to Digital format

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Jeff,
   I would be interested in taking you up on your offer, using your sons 
help. Preferably using my PC (not Mac) if possible. Another option, is that 
when I have found my video tape in question, showing Barry Harpers R/C 
installation in his Aster Lion. Then I could give it to you for your son to 
download on his Mac for publishing it on the sslivesteam web?.
   Thanks for the offer.
   Will advise,
   Best Regards,
Tony D.

   I will track the tape down and advise.At 06:27 PM 12/10/02 -0800, you 
wrote:
Tony,

I have three Mac's in my household and my son Matthew is adept at all
things digital when it comes to Macs.  Maybe he can help.

Jeff

==

Anthony Dixon wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
> I do not know anyone in my arena or any buddies who own a Mac. I use a
> generic Dell PC.myself. I can plug my Digital camcorder into it to play
> back video,s. But not familiar with the process/equipment for downloading
> these to the web. I need to look into this for times like these!. But don't
> hold your breath. If I can get the process and equipment to set up you will
> the first to know.
> Regards,
> Tony D.
> At 06:06 PM 12/6/02 -0800, Gary wrote:
> >Tony D.
> >If you have a friend with a Macintosh computer he will have the ability to
> >make the movie into a digital feed for sending via e-mail or posting 
to the
> >web.  Macs are sold with this sort of capability. I have a PC and it
> >requires extra software and hardware to do the same thing.
> >
> >Gary - Eugene, Oregon
> >
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: Anthony Dixon
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
> >Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:17 AM
> >Subject: Re: Lion Cab
> >
> >
> >Hi Gary,
> > I saw this engine once, when Barry ran it at the Sacremento steamup
> >last year, July 2001. I took a brief 30sec video, before the tape ran out.
> >Sorry to say, I am not familiar with knowing how to download this to the
> >web!.
> > I believe Mike Martin took many digital still photo's  as he normally
> >does at these events in the Bay Area. So maybe Mike has some in his
> >archives?.
> >There was also an event report published in "Steam in the Garden", 
approx 2
> >months after the 2001 event, which I thought carried a photo also.
> >  I do not know if Barry ran at Diamondhead with this engine in 
2001 or
> >2002. If so, someone may have photo's from here also.
> >  Assumptions would be to try and contact Barry direct. I have none of
> >his personal details.
> >  Alternatively, maybe Mike Martin will step forward and  advise if he
> >has any of Barry's R/C cab details. (Or other readers, have more visible
> >info).
> >  Regards,
> >   Tony D.
> >
> >
>

WAS: Fn3 NOW:scale/choice

[Terry Griner]

Geoff
  I have followed your lead. I have a Accucraft Ida, and am working in 1:24 scale for 
buildings. (It makes conversion of plans fairly easy) 
I adhere to the 10 foot/3 meter rule.
Terry Griner
Columbus Ohio USA


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/11/02 12:42PM >>>
Sir Art and  Terry,

Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these
confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both  the locos and  the
track. (Please,  no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32
of 4' 8-1/2")  No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my
10mm stuff real cheap!

Of course as far as some  steam NG stuff and  my sparkies are
concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there?

Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs,
but it never seems to get through.

I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale?  that is the
question.   The answer  lies in your satisfaction .


Geoff.







Here here Art!
><>
>
>> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
>
>7/8n2 presumably!
>
>It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
>nomenclatures?
>For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
>(correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
>e.g. 20.3/45
>
>Art Walker
>
>
>


 

Re: Steam oil

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
   In view of the 300 mile trip. And I think these Railroads my be closed 
already for the winter season. However, next summer, you could make a 
vacation out of visiting these working Shays, or at the Bay Area live 
Steamup at Sacremento in July 2003. And you are welcome to use my place in 
the Bay Area as central base. Or you could make a round trip, and stop over 
at my place, for a "rest"  and run your Scotsman.
   See Ya,
   Tony D.

   At 09:39 AM 12/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
 Tony lad,

Yes, but in Northern northern northern Ca, we are about 300 miles north of
any of those spots. We have no geared locos that operate except at Fort
Humboldt.  I did "drive" a heisler in a restricted Simpson  yard. --about
100ft as that was the only available track--there were no brakes. so one
used the johnson bar!!

Geoff.


>Hi Geoffrey,
>Is there a problem finding 1;1 working Shays and other
>narrow  gauge/gage logging engines in mid California?.
>I know of at least three working operational narrow gauge Shays, within
>"easy" travelling distance of the Bay Area. All of which run to daily
>summer schedules. (Not just static museum pieces). e.g.
>Sugar Pine Railroad, southern border of Yosemite. 4-5 hour drive from
>Bay Area
>Jamestown RailRoad, west of Yosemite border.  3-4 hour drive from Bay
>Area. (Static Also)
>Roaring Camp Park RailRoad, near Santa Cruz, south of San Jose. 45-60
>mins from San Jose. (Has both a Shay and Climax).
>
>I would surmise that a  new VW Bug could achieve these distances in the
>given time!. I know my Winnebago can (but even when running, is far from
>opulent!).
>See Ya.
>Tony D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>JamestownAt 05:55 PM 12/9/02 -0800, Dave Cole wrote:
>>At 4:55 PM -0800 12/9/02, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>>>Let this be the finish--right Dave??
>>
>>right. allow me to say: on this list, only people from australia can call
>>it "oz." all others must use the term "antipodes" (which i've always 
loved).
>>
>>>My  local steam friends run all NG stuff--including shays and heislers,
>>>just as the local timber industries used yesteryear. We have a few old
>>>prototype ones lying around here and there. None running- if someone says
>>>there are some running, I  would clarify that I am writing about rural
>>>Northwest Northern California, 100 miles below the Oregon border.--not the
>>>opulent Bay area!
>>
>>actually, i know of no narrow gauge full-scale live steam in the bay area
>>-- niles canyon is standard gauge, as is the golden gate railroad museum.
>>the narrow gauge stuff is down in santa cruz county, which is almost as
>>far away as northwest northern california.
>>
>>but doesn't the northern counties logging interpretive association have an
>>engine that is run at fort humboldt? i can't find a specific reference to
>>a specific engine, but it appears that in may through september, the group
>>had something it called "steam-ups" where "train rides will be given."
>>maybe the steam that gets up is on a stationary engine and the rides are
>>on something of a gasoline or diesel variety.
>>
>>\dmc
>>
>>--
>>^^^
>>Dave Cole
>>Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>>   Pacifica, Calif. USA  

>>List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>>   
>>
>>^^^
>

Re: Fn3

[Sam Evans]

Got my vote

Sam E

Terry Griner wrote:
> 
> Here here Art!
> <>
> 
> > So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
> 
> 7/8n2 presumably!
> 
> It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
> nomenclatures?
> For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
> (correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
> e.g. 20.3/45
> 
> Art Walker
> 
> 
> 

Re: Fn3

[Geoff Spenceley]

Sir Art and  Terry,

Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these
confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both  the locos and  the
track. (Please,  no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32
of 4' 8-1/2")  No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my
10mm stuff real cheap!

Of course as far as some  steam NG stuff and  my sparkies are
concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there?

Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs,
but it never seems to get through.

I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale?  that is the
question.   The answer  lies in your satisfaction .


Geoff.







Here here Art!
><>
>
>> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?
>
>7/8n2 presumably!
>
>It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
>nomenclatures?
>For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
>(correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
>e.g. 20.3/45
>
>Art Walker
>
>
>


 

Re: Alisan Shay--Reno

[Jim Stapleton]

Michael

The Reno is a 4-4-0 (American) owned by the Virginia and Truckee (V&T)
I believe it was the second Aster kit produced, right after the British
Southern Railways Schools class "Winchester".  Both were produced around
1975-1976.  My first wife's former boyfriend (got that) was building one in
early 1977 and tried to convince me then that I should get into Ga 1 live
steam.  My response... Are you nuts? I will never own a live steamer in a
scale that small!!  Lesson?  NEVER SAY NEVER, especially when it comes to
model railroading!

Jim Stapleton
==
At 12:06 PM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>What is a Reno?
>Thanks
>Michael
>Florida
>USA
>Iron Nut
 

Re: Alisan Shay--Reno

[mdenning]

What is a Reno?
Thanks
Michael
Florida
USA
Iron Nut

- Original Message -
From: "Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: Alisan Shay


> Oh, I forgot to mention price.
> $2,400 EUO or $2,402 USA
> I think this is pretty fair for a new Alisan Shay. A local hobby shop
> offered a used Alisan Shay last year for a mere $5,600.00!
> The Reno was listed in the same shop for $4,500.00.  I fixed a slightly
> misassembled Reno that was new and sold it for a friend to Sulphur Springs
> for $1,800.00. Not the highest possible price, but Everett just wanted to
> get his $500 he paid for the kit at a Model T car show. Bought it out of
the
> trunk of a Model T! Amazing where people find deals!
> Gary - Dreaming of Alisan Shay in Eugene, Oregon
> http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
> http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
 

Re: Fn3

[Terry Griner]

Here here Art!
<>

> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?

7/8n2 presumably!

It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
nomenclatures?
For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
(correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
e.g. 20.3/45

Art Walker

 

Re: Fn3

[mart.towers]

- Original Message -
From: "Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: Fn3


> So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be?

7/8n2 presumably!

It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US & Brit
nomenclatures?
For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype
(correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) & the track gauge in mm,
eg. 20.3/45

Art Walker

 

Re: Fn3

[Phil Paskos]

I always got the impression that Roundhouse would really rather build their
locos to 32 mm, but they are enough of a realistic company to know that the
larger market is 45mm. I for one am glad to have my SR #24 in 45mm.

I haven't updated my home page for a while but for the curious;
http://home.epix.net/~ppaskos/

Phil

> According to Roger Loxley it is built to 9/16" scale as a compromise
> between 1:22 and 1:19.05 (16mm).  It is also available for the more
> nearly correct 32mm ga (Ga 0).
>

> > > Phil,
> > > NMRA designated "F" as 1:20.3, so it is 3' gauge models in 1:20.3
scale -
> > i.e. gauge 1 track with accurate scale models.
> > >
> > > The Accucraft NG steamers are all Fn3, including that beeaauuutifu
> > K-27.
> > >
> > >   Pete
> > >
> >
 

Re: Re: Fn3 / #24 / K-27

[Bruce Gathman]

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:42:35 -0500, Jim Stapleton
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Phil
>
>The F in Fn3 stands for fifteen (15) mm/ft  -- how original of the NMRA.
>At least that's better than A(ccucraft) for 1:29 scale.  I can bitch about
>it cause I have been a life member ( L-3070) for 26 years.
>
>Folks from Roundhouse say that the scale of the #24, which should have been
>16mm to run on 32mm track (trucks for that are provided for the tender,
>pony and trailing axles, is actually... 1:22.5.  This makes the locomotive
>too small for either track gage, but its proportions are so good that
>almost everyone overlooks the track gage flaw.  I can attest to this
>personally.  My wife ok'ed ordering a #24 from Samuel Addison Muncy (Mad
>Man) at the 1991 GRC in Cincinnati.  It was my first live steamer; and I
>waited an agonizing four months for it to arrive.
>
>I can report that the K-27s are rolling in.  My pickup notice was faxed on
>Monday.  According to the announced strategy of "your engine will be built
>in serial # order based on when you get in the queue" I should have had an
>engine in April or May 2003.  Today Accucraft told me on the phone that
>Bing and Charlie decided to expedite the production line by building all
>the K-27s with outside cylinders first.  So if you ordered a #461 in either
>paint scheme, you went to the head of the class regardless of order date.
>I didn't research the other #s in my Mudhens book, so can't say which other
>ones have outside cylinders.
>
>Diamondhead may be overrun with K's in January.
>
>Jim Stapleton
>I E & W Ry, Purcellville  VA

Jim and all,

Maybe Jerry should consider building another large track to
go around the swimming pool area to accommodate these locos?
Then again there is usually track time between 2 and 6 AM!
Watch out steamtom1 they may be stealing your track time.
Maybe a new rule that all gas fired K's must run between 2 -
6 AM should be put into effect to take up this slack OR
anyone wishing to run his K should ante up $???.?? for new
track construction.

Personally I felt that the Shays would be taking over one
track also.  There certainly were more of them sold than the
K's.  The nice thing about them is that they don't have any
curve restrictions basically though.  Accucraft has sure had
good picks lately.  Now if they would only produce a West
Side three truck Shay - I'd be REAL happy.
 
My NMRA life member number is #L-260 and has cost them a
whole lot more than the $60 I invested in 1958.

Bruce Gathman

Eldorado Timber & Mining Co.
Bruce G. Gathman, President

Tall Trees  -  Deep Shafts

Re: Fn3

[Sam Evans]

According to Roger Loxley it is built to 9/16" scale as a compromise
between 1:22 and 1:19.05 (16mm).  It is also available for the more
nearly correct 32mm ga (Ga 0).

Sam E

Phil Paskos wrote:
> 
> Thanks . I missed this one. What is a Roundhouse SR#24? Remember the
> original was a narrow 2 foot Gauge. It's still my favorite G1 engine .
> 
> Phil
> 
> > In a message dated 12/10/2002 3:03:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > > What is Fn3?
> >
> > Phil,
> > NMRA designated "F" as 1:20.3, so it is 3' gauge models in 1:20.3 scale -
> i.e. gauge 1 track with accurate scale models.
> >
> > The Accucraft NG steamers are all Fn3, including that beeaauuutifu
> K-27.
> >
> >   Pete
> >
>