RE: no, the list isn't broken ...
Dave, Well said! I hope to boil some water before the weekend has ended and the blur of the week begins. It has indeed been too long. Mike Martin _ so i sat there for a few minutes watching the engine go 'round and 'round the layout. ...go out and run a train today. \dmc
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
The photo link has been repaired (thanks to Vance's discovery). Mike The photos page comes up blank. Are the photos available? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
Michael, The original used castings from Brandbright Ltd. Their part number RSA2A. They have brass sleeve bushings that work well. The reason I specified them at the time was that they were the only ones available that could be through bolted to the frame without modification. I have seen way too many white metal parts glued to wood with CA and wanted to help people avoid the ensuing disappointment that that approach leads to. An alternate approach would be to use 1 x .064 KS brass strip to fashion some minimalist versions. See: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/alt.htm for an illustration with suggested dimensions. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mdenning Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: BAGRS Project Loco What is used for the axleboxes on the BAGRS ?? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
2004 National Summer Steamup Photos Posted
I have posted 80+ pictures from the 2004 National Summer Steamup. They may be found at: http://www.panyo.com/nss2004 I hope you enjoy them. Mike Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Midwest Steam-up After Action Report
I was amazed by the Hill Climb figures that Bruce included in his after steamup report! It appears that the track inclination was set in degrees and then converted to the percentage grades he reported. The steepest grade reported (70.02%) equates to exactly 35 degrees. Another way to express this is that the engine climbed 6 feet, ten and one half inches over the 12 foot long course! What I am curious about is how the engines are prepared for this sort of contest. I would guess that the boilers must be nearly empty to avoid priming. I created an illustration that helps convey how steep the grades Bruce reported are. It also shows the relationship between grade expressed as a percentage versus degrees. It can be seen at: http://www.panyo.com/climb/climb.jpg Remember that a 45 degree incline is equal to a 100% grade. (Height of climb, divided by forward distance traveled, times one hundred, equals grade in percent.) Mike Martin
RE: Photo depth and plume
And, I'd dare say at a relatively long focal length (i.e. telephoto). Which will further reduce the depth of field for a given aperture setting. Dave wrote: btw, that picture was shot at nominal iso 200, 1/30 of a second, f2.8 ... which is why there is no depth of field ... \dmc -
was Steamup Pictures - now Basic Project Engine
Ken, I am Glad you enjoyed the pictures. We had a great day running engines. I get several inquiries about the Basic Project Engine site every month. There is no simple answer to your question. Honest differences of opinion exist on the subject of boiler construction. It is hard to dispute the 100-year-plus history of successful implementation of the principles used in Midwest's boiler design by companies such as Bing, Carrette, Marklin, Mamod, Wilesco, Jensen, etc. These companies have all successfully (and safely) used the same basic soft soldered, brass shell and/or flue design for LOW PRESSURE steam toys (i.e. locomotives, stationary engines, etc.). There are numerous examples of these engine and boiler systems in operation to this day (some in service for decades). However, some otherwise knowledgeable - and I believe, well intentioned - members of this list have gone on record stating that Midwest's boiler designs are unsafe. Perhaps one of them will grace us with a fully documented design that suits their safety ideals - that home builders could fabricate in their own shops. I know that reasonable persons will want to research this for themselves and that they will come to their own conclusions. Below, I have cut and pasted an excerpt from what has become my standard reply when people ask for the plans. Best Regards, Michael Martin I may return the Basic Project Engine pages to the web at a future date when I have time to add some sort of disclaimer and revamp some of the pages. In the mean time, I have left the chassis drawings available at: http://www.panyo.com/cad There you will find a 399KB MS Word document with 1:1 drawings of all the basic wood chassis parts. There are no instructions to go with it but it is probably pretty easy to follow the drawings. If not, feel free to ask if you run into a snag. None of the dimensions are critical - but they're all there. I will leave it up to the builder to decide what boiler and engine to use. There are many options available - from the do-it-yourself approach to complete units ready to run. The wheels are 1 1/4 diameter (not critical - except that they are large enough to allow the drive sprocket to clear the track - and small enough that they don't bog down the steam motor. If you use substantially larger wheels, you will need additional reduction in the gearing). The drivetrain parts (double reduction brass ladder chain) are comprised of the following: 1 ea. - 15 tooth Brass Sprocket - Stock Drive Products Part # A 6B 8-1915 (goes on axle) 2 ea. - 7 tooth Brass Sprocket - Stock Drive Products Part # A 6B 8-1907 (goes on engine and countershaft) 1 ea. - 24 tooth Brass Sprocket - Stock Drive Products Part # A 6B 8-1924 (goes on countershaft) 1 foot - Brass Ladder Chain - Stock Drive Products Part # A 6B 8-19 You can obtain them from the manufacturer, Stock Drive Products http://www.sdp-si.com/ , or from Sulphur Springs Steam Models http://www.sssmodels.com SSSM also offers a completer kit part # KIT-BPE that has all the following items at a reduced cost: BASIC PROJECT ENGINE (BAGRS PROJECT LOCO); Kit contains all the fasteners, ladder chain sprockets, metal stock, wheels and lubricator for the Basic Project Engine (2) 7 tooth ladder chain sprockets (1) 15 tooth ladder chain sprocket (1) 24 tooth ladder chain sprocket (2) feet of 19B brass ladder chain (1) #247 Roundhouse lubricator (1) 12 piece of 1/8 brass rod (1) 5/32 dia KS brass tube (1) 3/16 dia KS brass tube (1) 0.032 X 1/4 KS brass strip (8) 2-56 X 1/2 brass model hex head screws (8) 2-56 model hex brass nuts (8) #2 brass washers (2) Sierra Valley Enterprises wheel sets (2) 2-56 X 3/8 machine screws I have no association with Sulphur Springs other than as a satisfied customer and I have advised them as to what parts to carry for finishing out the Basic Project Engine. The owners are dedicated to promoting the hobby and are a joy to do business with. I receive no compensation from them on any parts sold for this, or any other project. I have had the pleasure of seeing dozens of BPE's running at steamups all across the country. The enjoyment their builders derive from them is why I went to the trouble of making the plans available in the first place. -Original Message- On behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike, Thanks for the steamup pics What happened to the basic project engine pages that were on your site??? Ken Vogel Lafayette, CO
Saturday's steamup at Jim McDavid's
All, I have posted a few pictures from Jim's steamup. You will find them at http://www.panyo.com/jimhttp://www.panyo.com/jim Best regards, Mike
RE: Fire Bricks
Were they refractory bricks (not fire bricks)? I bought some very light-weight tan colored refractory bricks a few years back for ~$6.00 (US) ea. They are extremely brittle but very effective. It is my understanding that the refractory bricks reflect more of the heat to the workpiece. Mike Tim de Haan Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 12:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: Fire Bricks M, 92 cents I just bought 10 from the local fireplace supplier at Au$ 9.00 each.
RE: Steamup Photos
Bob, Always glad to hear when someone new joins the hobby. If you need more inspiration, or it's just too cold to head outside and run your own, check out the Steam in the Garden (aka SitG) website at http://www.steamup.com Lots of great articles and photos there. If you aren't already subscribed to their magazine (paper) you'll find info on the SitG site about how to go about correcting that oversight. :-) You can also check out my other steamup photo pages at http://www.panyo.com/steamups Best regards, Mike
Steamup Photos
Happy day after Thanksgiving. I recently posted a few photos from a Steamup held on May 24, 2003 at Dan Liebowitz photogenic railroad. They will be found at: http://www.panyo.com/dan3 Mike
RE: Fire!!!!! Burned
I would like to pitch in. I can't even imagine what they are going through. Dave - can you set something up on one of your servers? Mike
RE: Threading
Multiply the thread depth by 1.1434 to determine the amount of compound slide travel required. This assumes an angle of 29 degrees from perpendicular to the axis of the part. Mike
Re: ot: train trip photos ...
OK Dave, I'm LNER green with envy! Nice pictures of what appears to have been a great experience. Thanks for sharing them! Mike Martin
Re: Need Help ID'ing man in G1MRA group photo from NSS
Geoff, Thank you! Mike Geoff Spenceley wrote: Mike--The chap on the far right is Rob Meadows of Los Angeles. Geoff.
Re: Project Tram Completed
Steve, I'd be happy to host the image files of your Tram engine. If the entire group of photos is in excess of 3MB, please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Ciambrone, Steve @ OS wrote: Finished up on my Tram engine last night, as I mentioned before it is based on the BARGS project design but uses the smallest Saito Marine boiler and engine. The same chain drive components were used and the chassis only widened out to 4 3/8. The original Saito burner tray was replaced with a three wick meths burner and a 1.5 oz. fuel tank. The new burner allows topping off of the tank for longer runs than the original burner tray which only yielded 10 minutes duration. Runs with this setup yielded a strong 25 minute duration with a little water to spare. I actually ran it for 30 minutes but the water nearly ran out, so 25 minutes is a safe run time. It has an interesting purr of the engine exhaust. The engine will pull four 4 wheel cars around my too tight of a diameter (5 feet) turn arounds. The Tram design is based on the GWR tram that was in a recent Garden Rail magazine article titled The Tale of Two Trams. I have image files if anyone is interested or if someone wants to host them on the web. Steve -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Need Help ID'ing man in G1MRA group photo from NSS
Hello, I need help identifying a G1MRA member that attended the recent National Summer Steamup in McLellan, CA. The photo is scheduled to be run in the next SitG so sooner is better :-) I have posted the photo at: http://www.panyo.com/G1MRA/ Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BPE safety valve
Midwest's Heritage series safety valve/filler cap will screw directly onto the threaded filler bush on their Model VI boiler. You might want to contact Midwest and inquire about purchasing one separately. Mike (Who really does care about safety)
Re: BPE boiler mods?
I'm getting a little worried about everyone's safety inasmuch as so many keystrokes have been devoted to the perils of the Midwest Boiler that we may all end up suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome... Here's something else to loose sleep over: === Health Hazards Data === Effects of Exposure: INGESTION OF LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAGENT WATER WILL CAUSE SERIOUS ILLNESS. First Aid: IF LARGE QUANTITIES ARE CONSUMED, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN. === Handling and Disposal === Spill Release Procedures: ALLOW TO EVAPORATE OR FLOW TO DRAIN. Neutralizing Agent: NONE Waste Disposal Methods: DISPOSE OF IN ACCORDANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL REGULATIONS. Handling And Storage Precautions: KEEP CONTAINER CLOSED WHEN NOT IN USE. Other Precautions: LDLO = 368 MG/KG === === The above text came from the MSDS for Distilled Water. Lets be safe - and still have some fun. :-) Mike
Re: PDF file
Jim. I'd be happy to help out. Let me know what you need. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: PDF file
Harley, Can line weights be preserved with the technique you describe? Mike Harley Kelsey wrote: Jim, Copy the CAD drawing to MS Word and then make a PDF file from that. Make sure you embed the text otherwise sometimes this will jump all over the place. Some CAD programs do not work with Acrobat. Do you have the full Acrobat program to make a PDF? What CAD program do you have. Harley Kelsey Tel 604-688-2775 Fax (same) Cel 604-842-2442 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Curry Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: PDF file A little off topic but I'm looking for someone with experience making PDF files from CAD files. Ron Brown needs me to convert some files for an article. Thank you in advance. Jim -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: BPE boiler mods?
Pete, 1. The Midwest Boiler has minimal air intake area in the firebox/wrapper. Even without any obstructions in the flue, it is necessary to enlarge and/or increase the number of air inlets in the wrapper by 100% or so. On the prototype the fire flitted about the firepan seeking its next gulp of oxygen. Therefore, it seemed reasonable to increase the air intake area. The location of the original holes is higher than is ideal. Any efforts made to increase the intake area should also incorporate a relocation to just above the Sterno tray. 2. Instead of running the superheater/steam dryer up the stack, consider the following modification: Plug the hole in the top sheet where the steam pipe currently exits the boiler. Run the steam pipe down through the bottom sheet and make a lap around the firebox before exiting through the wrapper. See the illustration at: http://www.panyo.com/boiler.jpg 3. Sterno that has been around too long could use a little help. Adding some denatured alcohol (1 part alcohol to 2 or 3 parts Sterno) is a good way to liven up performance. 4. Despite loading gauge issues, do not shorten the stack. The boiler steams best with the original length stack intact. Hope this is of some help. Mike PeteH wrote: Has anyone modified the vertical Midwest boiler as used in the Basic Project Engine? I have made some changes with mixed results and am soliciting advice to see if I am on the right track. The first change was to replace the brass chimney with a 'type L' copper tube of the same diameter. The second was to add a 'dry-pipe separator' inside the boiler and the third (which I am sure is the culprit) is the addition of a superheater. The superheater is made from 1/8 copper tubing and connects about 3/4 of the way up the chimney, the section inside has been annealed and twisted into a very loose spiral of about 3-1/2 turns in 5 inches. At the bottom of the chimney it makes a gradual 90 degree bend and projects out one of the holes in the lower shroud surrounding the fuel 'pot'. The problem I am having is in keeping the fire burning, caused I assume by the placement of the superheater in the chimney restricting the draft. The inner diameter of the chimney is just under 9/16, although I guessed that the loose spiral would allow enough draft I seem to be in error. I wouldn't think bringing the end of the 1/8 superheater pipe out one of the 7 intake holes would cause it? I even tried using the exhaust from the motor as a 'blower' to help induce the draft without any luck! I will replace the spiral superheater pipe with a simple straight pipe along with making a new exit hole to see if this fixes the problem, am I on the right track? Kindest Regards, PeteH -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: (Help!) Need picture(s) of Project Engines
Jim, Thanks for the offer of the photo. My address is: Mike Martin 1849 Springer Road Mountain View, CA 94040 Thanks again, Mike
Re: Need help identifying engines/owners for SitG photos!!!
Can anyone confirm Mike Chaney's assumption? Was Dwight in attendance? Thanks, Mike M. Mike Chaney wrote: #017 is used by Dwight Ennis as his sig on www.mylargescale.com so I assume it is his. Mike C.
Re: Need help identifying engines/owners for SitG photos!!!
Bob, Thank you for the info. I have made the corrections. Mike Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: Need help identifying engines/owners for SitG photos!!!
Geoff, Thank you for the information. I have updated the captions to reflect the new info. I did not shoot any video at the NSS but I believe Richard did. I have not seen what he recorded yet. Thanks again, Mike Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: Need help identifying engines/owners for SitG photos!!!
Steve, Thank you. I will incorporate the change in the caption. Mike
(Help!) Need picture(s) of Project Engines
I am looking for pictures of the gaggle of Basic Project Engines (aka BPE and BAGRS loco) that was assembled at the recent National Summer Steamup. Several people took pictures of the group of engines on the table in the room where the seminars were conducted. I failed to get a shot. Thanks in advance for any pictures or leads. Mike Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.panyo.com/project
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Yes, I went through three oxygen cylinders at about $8 each (and that was about 7 or 8 years ago) when silver soldering a 1 5/8 dia. x 6 long copper boiler with a 7/8 dia. steam dome. I managed to get the job done, albeit somewhat sloppy, i.e. way too much alloy. I also melted the corner of the brass filler/safety valve bushing. (Hey Richard, It never occurred to me to blame it on the flux... :-) ) To sum it up - the tiny flame burns at a very high temperature (over 5,000' F) - but the total heat content is rather low. I'd pass on it. Mike Martin Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi Royce, Enough propane burned per unit-time is one answer. I have the Sievert propane setup and am very satisfied with its ability to bring large copper assemblies (Gauge 1 boilers, etc.) to silver soldering temperature (1145'F for easyflow 45) in a short enough time that the flux is not saturated with oxides. One of the interchangeable burner tips is rated at 80,000 BTU/hr. It will empty the 20# propane bottle in a hurry and makes a wonderful howl doing so! Seems appropriate for the 4th of July weekend. Mike
Re: Where to find plans
The Denver 0-4-0 is featured on Marc Horovitz' website as the locomotive of the month for November, 2001. The url for the information page is http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/locos/Denver1.html Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Loctite and Model Steam Engine Construction
Hello listers, Has anyone had experience with using Loctite products in the building of model steam engines? I'm speaking of retaining compounds (as opposed to thread lockers). I recently picked up some Loctite 620 at a local distributor to experiment with. Specifically I want to know if it (or any of the similar compounds) works best with slip fit clearances or light press fit interferences. The product data sheet claims it works well in both cases and is recommended for diametral clearances as large as .015. I'm also curious about the use of primers and accelerants. I'm thinking along the lines of having only one reamer for both running fits and what would have been a press fit prior to the advent of Loctite products. For example, a .125 diameter crank pin might run in a connecting rod bushing reamed to .1253 and be Loctited into a reamed bore of the same diameter in a crank disc. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Mike Martin
Re: Sterno for fuel?
Be careful, there are at least two different Sterno products. I am familiar with the traditional jelled chaffing dish fuel and the liquid version. Tom asked abut the liquid version. The liquid version is considerably less viscous and therefore more prone to spillage. Worse, when I used some in the Midwest firebox it started to boil. As the bubbles popped, they released flammable gas that caused flames to belch from the air intakes around the perimeter of the firebox. Spectacular to observe after sundown, but not particularly advisable! The jelled version comes in squat metal containers with a press fit lid. It is suitable for use in the aforementioned shays as well as the Midwest steam engine kits. James S. Burns, Jr. wrote: Tom, there were about 100 Hydeout Mountain Shays manufactured to run on Sterno. Put in a spoon full of jelly and the pop valves sing. Probably others were so fueled? Have fun, Mike
Re: Sterno for fuel?
Hi Tom, Not advisable - as the residue from either is significant. Also, it would be too viscous to get through the small diameter feed pipes and/or past the wicks. Mike tom leaton wrote: Thanks guys. I was wondering if you could use the liquid Sterno in alcohol burning locos like Asters. Any ideas? ---Tom U. Leaton
Was: Manufacturers and surveys now Butane: Friend or Foe?
Dave Cole wrote: they get the results like 80 percent of current steamers prefer alcohol (five minutes at diamondhead would tell you that's way, way off) While butane may be the most prevalent fuel in use at Diamondhead it does not necessarily mean it is by choice. I would like to have an alcohol fired Billy but Roundhouse does not offer one. Nonetheless, while we're on the subject of butane... I have a proposal: Lets set strict noise limits for whistle powered, (I meant to say butane fired) locomotives. Even the SCCA has set and enforced noise limits on racing cars! Seriously, all I'm asking is for a little courtesy - turn down the burner a little bit when it starts howling. If you do, you'll save money on butane, your run will last longer, I will thank you, and countless dogs will thank you. Mike (with tongue partially in cheek) Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: (No subject)
Impressive macro work with that new camera Dave! Thanks for sharing. Mike
Re: Size of Accucraft K-27?
Ah, dual power systems. It's not unlike the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight hybrid vehicles... :-) Mike
Re: Max wheel RPM
While maximum wheel RPM was one of the design criteria used to determine maximum rated speeds, piston acceleration was also important. Connecting rod length and piston stroke contribute to this value. To better understand the engineering tenets of the era, you could take the dimensions of all the necessary parts and calculate the average piston speed and piston acceleration for a number of passenger locomotives. Some time ago I posted a piston speed/acceleration calculator at http://www.panyo.com/downloads The calculator allows you to enter various combinations of critical design information such as wheel diameter, stroke, locomotive speed, connecting rod length, etc. and returns all sorts of interesting information. Someone curious about the design trends/rules of a given era could run the numbers and then chart the similarities and differences between locomotive makers and designers. Of course the results would not govern the building of scale models. I do not believe the forces involved would scale at the same rate as the material section. We should be able to make our models go considerably faster than scale speeds if we were so inclined. Anyone for a Top Fuel Loco? Mike http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: More Diamondhead Pictures
We missed having you there Jim. Are you planning on attending the Summer Steamup in Sacramento? I'm already looking forward to it. Mike http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Details on Jim Pitts' Trex Track System
Jim, Thank you for sharing your construction photos with us. You have a beautiful railroad and are to be commended for the wonderful documentation of your track planning/building experience. Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Steam power in the 21st century
This may be of interest to those that exhibit a proclivity towards steam boats... :-) http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns3321 Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
SP #2472 is taking passengers - Please read
All, PLEASE NOTE: Despite reports to the contrary, 2472 IS MAKING PASSENGER RUNS ON 11/30/02 AND 12/01/02. These passenger carrying runs are IN ADDITION to the Toys for Tots operation. Being fund raisers to help defray the costs of keeping this locomotive operational, it is important to get the word out. According to the Golden Gate Railroad Museum website there will be steam rides available to the public on November 30th and December 1st. The following was clipped from their web page.http://www.sfsteam.org/ The Golden Gate Railroad Museum and Northern California Railroad Club are joining together to operate the Holiday Steam Specials pulled by steam locomotive 2472 from San Francisco to Redwood City and return. Bring the family for a ride on an Old Fashion Steam Train for the Holidays. We will use an all Budd, stainless steel train with dome observation Silver Solarium at the end, and we will have photo runbys. This will be an event to remember and treasure! These public excursions are fund raisers to keep the 2472 steam engine in operation and will fund a new boiler inspection. Schedule: (Note: CalTrain rail service is not operating on these days) Nov. 30 and Dec. 1 Lv: San Francisco (CalTrain 4th and King St.) 9:30 am Return at 12:30 pm Round Trip tickets from SF only on these dates Train for Tots: 2472 will operate in these evenings on the Train for Tots to collect toys for the toys for tots program. No passengers on these special trains of lights. But Santa Claus will also ride the Holiday Steam Special in the morning to see your family. Bring a toy for Toys for Tots collection at SF Depot to be given to needy kids. See their page for more information. For additional pictures of #2472 see my pages at: www.panyo.com/ggrm and www.panyo.com/2472sj Happy Steaming, Michael Martin
Re: Soldering and welding require practice.
Steve, (and anyone else listening within driving distance) This subject has spawned another hair-brained, half-baked scheme... It goes something like this: a) I have two (2) very large (and full) propane cylinders that are in need of some work. b) I have a deluxe Sievert torch set and a few of the expensive (and brittle) refractory bricks. c) I have a fair supply of Harris Safety Silv 45 and some Easy Flow 45. d) It is relatively easy to talk me into getting the Sievert torch out when the right company is over. Actually, how about organizing a brazing workshop before, during, or after a local steamup? I have numerous projects I'd like to get moving and I am sure there are others, like yourself, that have projects they would like to work on. I'll supply the torch and gas in exchange for the inspiration to get back to work on some metal projects. ...just thinking out loud, Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Boxpok driver model preview
Ken, Nice work. Some of the waxes used in RP can be smoothed with a mist of isopropyl alcohol. That should reduce any of the edge effects caused by the RP process. The problem is that it would leave too smooth of a surface. I've been thinking along the same lines concerning the mastering of patterns. At work we do a considerable amount of brazing and use SolidWorks for all of our CAD work. Our fit tolerances are critical due to the nature of the product we build. Where I am gong with this is that we often run interference checks with the models scaled up to their size at 1000 C. SolidWorks design tables make the job of growing the part relatively easy. I believe SW 2003 has made this even easier by automatically importing all model dimensions to the Excel spreadsheet that drives the design table. Based on the quality of your models I am beginning to think that I may be preaching to the choir at this point... In other words, you're probably already there. I am looking forward to seeing the project as it progresses. Keep us posted. Regards, Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Boxpok driver model preview other questions
The operating characteristics of the US aftermarket wheel makers seem to be focused on low rolling resistance and good tracking. The part I would be worried about is the emphasis on low rolling resistance. This has led at least one major wheel maker to use an extremely generous radius between the wheel tread and the flange, thus reducing (or eliminating) the contact between wheel tread and rail. The design criteria for a driver should not diverge from the prototype so much that traction becomes a problem. Any thoughts along these lines? -- Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Boxpok driver model preview other questions
Jim, I hope I didn't make the impression that I was being critical of Gary's wheel design. I agree entirely that for the intended application (rolling stock) he's done a great job of reducing drag. Regards, Mike Martin Jim Curry wrote: The radius between tread and flange is huge but very appropriate for the application.
Re: Firebox Stays - What to use?
Monel is the material of choice according to K. N. Harris, author of Model Boilers and Boliermaking. -- Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: American project?
There were many (good looking) straight boilered 4-4-0s in the 1840-1880 era. Check out a scan of Phantom from the book A History of THE AMERICAN LOCOMOTIVE Its Development:1830-1880 By John H. White, Jr. Dover Publications, Inc. New York ISBN 0-486-23818-0 www.panyo.com/misc/Phantom.htm Mike
Re: OT: Re: Lucinda (was Sammy exhaust tubes)
The version I have heard attributes the saying to English bar-keeping practice of centuries ago. In this version, Ps and Qs refer to pints and quarts. Patrons needed to pay close attention to their tab because the unscrupulous barkeep might pad it after the patron had a few... Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
More National Summer Steamup pictures posted
Greetings Live Steamers, I have finally found time to post additional pictures from the 2002 National Summer Steamup. Go to: www.panyo.com/steamups and follow the link from there. I hope you enjoy them. Michael Martin
Basic Project Engine Plans (backwoods vertical boiler type)
Greetings Live Steamers, I have updated the Basic Project Engine website with full size plans. There are 17 A size (letter size) drawings embedded in a Word file. This appears to be an efficient approach to making CAD drawings available to persons without a CAD program. Let me know how it works for you if you download them. To access them, go to: www.panyo.com/steamups and follow the link from there. One other development worth noting: Sulphur Springs Steam Models has put together a discounted completer package for the Basic Project Engine that includes the chain, sprockets, lubricator, and other hard to find components required to build the engine. You should check their website at: www.sssmodels.com or give them a call at (636) 272-6632 (M-F 4:00 to 6:00 pm CST and 9:00 am to 4:00 pm CST on Saturdays) if you are interested in building the Project. Sulphur Springs has been extremely accommodating and deserves some acknowledgment for their continued support of our hobby. As I have no financial connection with Sulphur Springs, I hope this message is not construed as excessively commercial in nature. I think source information needs to be shared. To that end, I am working on part source and vendor information to be included on the Basic Project Engine website. I'll let everyone know when it is finished. Thank you. Michael Martin
Re: boiler bushings
Boiler holding fixture? Do tell. Thanks, Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Pop Valves
Hi Mike, I would definitely like a copy of the .DWG file. I spent an hour looking through several books that I thought had dimensioned drawings of pop-type safety valves. Unfortunately, every one of them had a generalized description without giving any critical proportions, let alone dimensions. Thank you for sharing. Mike Martin
Re: of boilers and things
By varying the I.D., the O.D. remains the same and allows all three series of nominal copper pipe (M, L, and DWV) to share the same elbows, tees, reducers, etc. Copper TUBING is another story... Mike
Re: Thin refractory material
Royce, Check with Sulphur Springs Steam Models. I purchased some Fiberfrax (sp?) from them a few years ago. It appears to be a ceramic fiber felt material about 1/16 thick. If I knew where I placed it, I'd send you some. Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Boxpoks
The drivers shown in Ken's photo appear to be a type of Boxpok (aka Box Pok, Box-Pok, and Box-pok). Boxpoks typically have round, slightly elliptical, or (as pictured) teardrop shaped openings on the face of the driver. I cannot find the source at the moment, but I believe the name Boxpok is a contraction of the words box spoke. The internal structure of the Boxpok wheel is indeed box-like. Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: Screw removal idea for C-16 superheater
Before resorting to such extreme measures as visegrips (ouch!), you may want to try some heat. While it's not much fun to work on parts at operating temperature, you may find the screw easier to remove. -- Michael Martin
Re: Clearances between tracks
I second Steve's assertion! (-: see http://wwwpanyocom/bloom/images/1Z080022jpg Michael Martin http://wwwpanyocom/steamups
Re: 5 or 2
J.R., all, From now on, I promise to do my fact checking in advance. Indeed, five were killed in that tragic accident. I found a version of the article at: www.ntet.co.uk/MedReport.html I guess I didn't want to believe that individuals could be that careless or ignorant when lives other than their own were at risk. Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: nut height
I'm about 6'2... Don't know if that's average for a model engineering nut or not. :-) I created a printer friendly TIF file from the web page Vance found. (Great find Vance!) If you are using the standard file association for TIFs in Windows, you can view or print it from the default viewer. Find the file at: www.panyo.com/misc/ Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: (MORE) Diamondhead Pictures Posted
Thanks Steve, I wish more of the SF Bay Area gang could have been there! Next year? I have decided to go on the Tuesday prior to the event... I've got my room reservation in already. It was cool beyond words. Mike
Re: (MORE) Diamondhead Pictures Posted
Tony, Thanks for the kudos. I am happy to report that I did get some runs in (as well as a whole lot of talking)! Sorry I missed your steamup last Saturday. I'm on a fairly short leash after playing trains and being away for 5 days... (Her words.) Take care Mike http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
(MORE) Diamondhead Pictures Posted
All, I have posted 94 pictures from the Diamondhead event at http://www.panyo.com/dh2002 I hope you enjoy them. Regards, Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamups and Model Engineering)
Re: (MORE) Diamondhead Pictures Posted
Yes, I got in some runs and talked to many people. Had a blast! Michael Martin PS The images that made it to the website represent about 10% of what I shot... http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: parafin vs lamp oil
John, Are you coming to Diamondhead to show us how??? :-) Hope to see you there! Michael Martin http://www.panyo.com/steamups
New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Happy New Year all, I managed to break one of my resolutions already (that of getting to bed at a decent hour). However, I was able to fulfill another in the process. I finished my latest vertical boilered project. I have posted a few pictures at: www.panyo.com/pro2 I wish all of you a fulfilling, prosperous, and peaceful new year. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Trent wrote: So, is it considered a 4-2-0, or a 0-2-4? ___ Good question Trent. Rod locomotives are classified by the Whyte system (after Dutch Mechanical Engineer Frederick Methvan Whyte, employed by the New York Central) and are classified as 4-4-0, 4-6-2, etc. Shays and Heislers are classified as 2-truck, 3-truck, etc. As far as I can tell, oddities like this never seemed to get that sort of classification. However, IF the Whyte system were used, it would be a 4-2-0, owing to the fact that in this case, the engine is intended to run with the steam motor at the rear (the Whyte system always describing the locomotive's wheel sets from front to rear). Now I'm curious too. Anyone out there know more about this? Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Piston Speed Calculator for Steam Locomotives
I've just finished and posted an MS Excel based piston speed calculator. It will calculate mean piston speeds and maximum piston acceleration based on physical characteristics of the engine. Find it at: www.panyo.com/downloads Useful (?), Fun (?)I think so, but then I'm a bit of a gearhead (and CAD geek). At any rate, it came about as a result of Royce's question concerning the offset of cylinder centerlines. Going back to the original thread, if I had to guess, I'd put my money on settling that occurs in service. However Royce's question got me thinking... Fact is, the calculator doesn't come close to answering his question, but it gets you one step closer to being able to (or at least related questions). Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Royce wrote: I did, however, wonder whether there is a vertical force component associated with this mis-alignment that would help reduce the effective weight of the main rod. Any thoughts? royce in SB
Re: Cylinder vs. Axle Alignment
OK Royce, Send me my usual retainer fee and I'll model it in Solidworks and do the FEA work in CosmosWorks. My guess is the main rod takes leave of the locomotive at piston accelerations in excess of 6000 ft/second², irrespective of attempts to balance the assembly... :-) Michael Martin
Re: K4 firing
All, Bill Baxley had his K4 at Dan Liebowitz' a couple of Saturday's ago. I was watching him light the burner and was very impressed by what I saw. He opened the smokebox door and lit the gas. Then, without hesitation, closed the door. That part peaked my attention as I know they aren't that easy to light. Out of nowhere he produced a rubber bulb. Sealing the orifice end of the bulb against the smokestack, he gave a quick squeeze. With a whoosh, the fire jumped back and settled on the burner with that satisfying sound. Clever guy... (I hope that wasn't a patented maneuver Bill!) The rubber bulb is a Radio Shack Solder Sucker, normally used for removing excess solder from circuit boards. Any similar implement should work as well. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Diamondhead Plans?
Hello all, How many list members are planning on attending the Diamondhead Steamup (aka International Small Scale Steamup and Arts Festival 2002) this January? I'm curious if anyone has used the Coastliner airport limo service? Good/bad experience? Pricey? Tip required? Thanks in advance, Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Steamup Photos from Dan Liebowitz'
Tony, Thanks for the nice words. I will be continuing to add to it as time permits. Take care, Mike
Steamup Photos from Dan Liebowitz'
Hello all, I hope everyone had a great day yesterday. I have posted a few pictures from Dan's steamup last weekend. I'm sorry I didn't shoot more pictures to round out the coverage more. Nonetheless, everyone seemed to have a good time. Go to: www.panyo.com/steamups (NOTE: the url IS case sensitive, and spelling counts.) Use the link(s) there. PS I'm still having trouble figuring out Dan's RCS system. The installation is beautiful, but the instructions were in Australian... :-) Actually I should try to get my hands on the instructions and give 'em a read. Either way, push the buttons and cool stuff happens! Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Found: a new source for materials.
Orchard Supply Hardware carries the same line. It appears to be produced by KS Engineering (same sizes as the stuff found in the hobby shop racks). Do try to find the KS rack at a local hobby shop though, the prices on individual small diameter brass tubing (Steel Works) at my local OSH is considerably higher than the identical item (KS) at my local hobby shop. The more rugged (larger) pieces have a smaller price gap. It appears that the hardware store is charging for all the bent pieces they have to toss out... -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: K4 piston backhead
I went with 8 track centers on Dan Liebowitz' layout. It seems to handle most anything. ...including the odd stray bottle of beverage. -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Track rail bender
Guys, For what it's worth, a local live steamer has had steel rail (no, not stainless steel) on his above ground railroad for at least 6 years. The rail looks great, grips well and is definitely not rusting away. The secret ingredient? Probably the steam oil residue that we spend so much time wiping off of the rail heads... Michael Martin in the sunny and mild San Francisco Bay Area [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: die usage
The 2 4 8 sequence must be on the numeric keypad to the right of your alphabet keys (with the number lock ON, of course). -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Oh the joy
Jon, Hurray! When's the party? :-) Mike
Re: BAGRS LOCO
Steve, I'm always glad to hear when people enjoy the building experience as much as the running. When do we get to see a picture? Enjoy! Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wheel turning
Steve, Congrats! You're headed for serious trouble now!... :-) I know for sure that many, many past model making projects were never attempted because they required custom bores, wheels, axles, and sheaves. Having the Taig available means that future projects will employ lathe-work as a matter of course instead of being designed to avoid custom-turned parts. Enjoy your efforts and keep counting the fingers (before and after each operation). Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Door Prize Flyer ERROR!!!
Gary, Yes, there's a dealer room. I believe Kevin O'Connor is in charge of that. Let him know right away if you need space. I believe there has already been some spillover into the halls. On a related subject: Have you billed us yet for the price difference between the Aluminum and Nickel Silver? I don't want us taking advantage of your generosity! Also, I have received very few responses from my Door Prize mailers. I'm a little worried they did not find their way to their respective destinations. (Am I sounding paranoid?!) Seriously though, their form factor may not be well liked by the automated sorting machinery. Have you received one yet? Was it mangled? Looking forward to the steamup and spending time with my steam friends, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan's This Weekend?
Gary, Are you going to be at Dan Liebowitz' this Sunday? Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Door Prize Flyer ERROR!!!
All, I recently sent out ~50 postcards to dealers asking for door prize donations for the National Summer Steamup. The date prominently displayed on the mailer is INCORRECT! Please spread the word, THE CORRECT DATES ARE: JULY 27-29, 2001. Please excuse my error. Thank you, Mike Martin NSS 2001 Door Prize Coordinator [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch first, then prime
Not to answer for Kevin, but here's why I have always warmed spray cans and the parts to be painted. 1. The paint's viscosity is lowered. 2. The delivery pressure goes up. 3. Warming the parts drives off moisture and reduces the chance of condensation. 4. The paint can be more thoroughly mixed (shake for at least 90 seconds after hearing the ball rattle while slowly rotating the can along it's axis). 5. The combination of 1., 2. and 3. creates a much finer spray and a better adherence upon contact of paint and surface. What have I missed Kevin? Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gauge One steam cylinder drain cocks
I scanned the photos/sketch that Kevin cited. It can be found at: www.panyo.com/drop/Crow.gif Mike
Golden Gate Railroad Museum
Hi all, I just posted a few images that I shot earlier this month during an Open House at the Golden Gate Railroad Museum at : www.panyo.com/ggrm What does this have to do with small scale live steam? Honestly, it's not exactly on topic, although there was an O-Gauge layout there - but sparks were flying from underneath the beasts... Actually, a couple of the detail shots might be of some use for those interested in locomotive valve gear. In one shot the piston valves of a full size Pacific may be seen as they are being refurbished. I hope you find them of interest. Take care, Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: meniscus mayhem
From what I can recall, not all plastics are non-wetting. I believe High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) is non-wetting but it has many physical characteristics that would be undesirable for our application. Specifically, it is much more plastic (i.e. less rigid) and is milky as opposed to clear. Acrylic plastics such as those sold under the trade names of Plexiglas, Lucite, Acrylite, and Perspex (sp?) are naturally hygroscopic (have an affinity for water). While that fact alone is not a problem, it would seem to indicate they don't have the non-wetting characteristic we desire. Just some rambling recollections... Are there any polymer experts amongst us? Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Should I add weight to Billy loco?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have seen a billy slip like it was riding on snot. (sorry, couldn't resist) My Billy was always capable of pulling far more than a prototypical consist. Due to the weight distribution, the pulling capability was far greater running the engine in reverse at the front of the train i.e. dragging the cars. At the National Spring Steamup it pulled 24 - 4-axle cars with minimal wheel slip! (Kevin, ignore that last sentence, I wouldn't want you to think I abused it before I sold it to you :-) ) Obviously that was more of a stunt than serious operation but it shows that a 6 pound locomotive is quite capable of doing some real work. On the subject of wheel slip; I have seen many locomotives at various steamups with the wheels slipping excessively and the operator doing nothing to prevent it. This leads to the polishing of drivers and a greater propensity for wheel slippage on the next run. Moral of the story? If the drivers are slipping, reduce the throttle setting immediately, wipe down the track, reduce the load, or add some weight over the drivers. Just don't let 'em slip. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Should I add weight to Billy loco?
Steve, One of the first things Kevin O'Connor did to the Billy he purchased from me was to replace the front buffer bean with a thick (1/2?) piece of brass. The Billy carries somewhere around 80% of its weight on the rear drivers. It has a tendency to lift the front wheels when accelerating hard... Well, not really. However, it does have a tendency to derail on bumpy track due to it's poor weight balance. For those of you that think I'm bashing the Billy, nothing could be further from the truth. The weight distribution issue is the ONLY thing I could fault the engine for. In every other way it is on of the best overall designs in its class. I put many miles on mine before I sold it. Kevin continues to run the wheels off of it and has stated it's his favorite everyday locomotive. Not a bad endorsement when you consider the stable he has to draw upon. To sum up; It would be difficult to add too much weight to the Billy in a saddle tank. Something in the neighborhood of two pounds would probably be just right. Mike Martin Shyvers, Steve wrote: Would a Roundhouse Billy benefit from additional weight?
Re: Coal fired BAGRS
Hi all, Gary Broeder wrote: he did not widen the frames but instead opted to build a deep firebox with solid copper legs to help conduct some of the heat up into the boiler as there was no room for the common water legs. That's correct. I will post a drawing in the next day or two that I created, based on a seminar on coal fired boiler construction given by John Shawe at the '97 Diamondhead meet. I will also post some tables that relate flue diameter to length as well as total flue area versus grate area etc. Regards, Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Steam Up - Saturday April 21st
Tony, I could use a refresher on how to get there. Thanks, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pictures
Hi all, I tried to take a little of the load off of our host by posting some pictures to my new domain. Go to: www.panyo.com/broeder for some pictures of the latest PCLS steamup at Gary Broeder's in Morgan Hill. We had a great time and I saw many new faces. (Dave, you're welcome to "snag" the page and images if you'd like. Is that easier for you?) -- Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New roster ...
Tony, Try this one: http://45mm.com/sslivesteam/users/ (Note the addition of the letter "e" in "live") Dave simply mis-typed the url, it's all still there. Anthony Dixon wrote: I am having problems opening up the roster. Keep getting a message, "Error.File not available'. Any Ideas?. Please advise. Thank You, Tony D. ________ Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New roster ...
Jim, Try: http://45mm.com/sslivesteam/users/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got a 404 error message when I "cut and pasted" URL. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Turning wheels
Anthony Dixon wrote: Do you think if we all synchronize our watches on Saturday at mid-day for an an extra hour steaming, (and not Sunday am), that Gary will notice?. It's worth a try! Who else is going?. I'll be there. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Roundhouse Colonial
Steve, I've seen more pressure gauges that were inaccurate than Roundhouse safety valves that were out of adjustment. For safety's sake I would try to verify the accuracy of the gauge. Do you have access to another locomotive to compare it to (even if only the more subjective things such as performance characteristics, sound of escaping steam from the valve, etc.)? Your description of the valve "popping" at 25 psi makes the gauge sound suspect. The Roundhouse valves don't really "pop" even at a full 40 psi. While we're on the subject; Has anyone done a safety margin analysis on the Ruby boiler? Especially considering the popularity of stretching the safety valve spring. (Shimming, by the way, is a more reliable way of achieving the effect. Unless, of course, this unduly restricts the travel and flow of the valve.) Mike
Re: SF bay area BAGRS steamup?
Gary, You've joined the rest of us! (2001 vs. 1969) Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SoCal Snow
Bob, Great stuff! Where in SoCal? Just curious, Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: autocad files ...
Dave, It may be my lack of sophistication in translating Zip files, but I can't get a good AutoCAD file out of the download. A couple of items to note: The file was very large for an AutoCAD file, unless it was a 3D solid (and a fairly complex one at that). The file name had two extensions when unzipped. i.e. aweekendproject.dwg.bin (Do I need a file conversion utility to "decode" the .bin file?) Renaming the file (dropping the .bin extension) allowed me to try the Recover utility in AutoCAD. It appears to have a lot of valid CAD data in the database but still is deemed to be "Not a valid file type" by AutoCAD 2000 (and release 14). I'd be interested in trying again. Any ideas? Has anyone else successfully loaded the drawing? Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
