Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
The locomotive from Petticoat Junction is a surviving steam locomotive. It's now at the California State Railroad Museum. (last I heard, anyway) Thought it might be of interest. Maybe not. Later, Trent Harry Wade wrote: Petticoat Junction set the public's image of locomotive aesthetics back 100 years.(?)
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
At 2:47 AM -0600 3/21/03, Trent Dowler wrote: The locomotive from Petticoat Junction is a surviving steam locomotive. It's now at the California State Railroad Museum. (last I heard, anyway) Thought it might be of interest. Maybe not. Later, Trent Harry Wade wrote: Petticoat Junction set the public's image of locomotive aesthetics back 100 years.(?) actually, it's at railtown 1897 state historical park in jamestown, calif. jamestown is a branch of the calif state railroad museum, because for years the state parks department ran it and had no idea how to interpret it. the sierra railroad, which is part short line and part museum line, is called the movie railroad. in addition to petticoat junction, back to the future 3 and little house on the prairie were filmed there (apparently in a good year they get a half-dozen film crews onsite). clint eastwood likes to film his westerns there -- he's made both pale rider and unforgiven at jamestown (it's a four-hour drive from his carmel home -- 45 minutes by helicopter). the diamond stack and all the other geegaws -- including cow catchers -- that the movie companies demand to dress up locomotives sit in an open-sided warehouse just east of the roundhouse. apparently set designers can wander through the warehouse and say, i'll take one of those and one of those and the set painters dress them up and the shop guys attach them. after filming they go back to the warehouse. and the watertower where the girls bathed? dryrot got it last year and they've built a new one. historically accurate but looks nothing like the tv show. i think that was the museum giving the finger to hollywood. \dmc ps: before i got into trains, i was a movie buff. for that i wore a beret. -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
ps: before i got into trains, i was a movie buff. for that i wore a beret. With a Propeller ? :-) Terry -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
At 10:32 AM -0500 3/21/03, Terry Griner wrote: With a Propeller ? no, no ... the propeller hat is a *beenie* not a beret ... sheesh. \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
Harry wrote: And I hate cow catchers I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle ends and moose antlers on the smokebox. But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!! What more excuse do you need? :-) - - Steve
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
Hold the phone there! I kind of like antlers! - Original Message - From: Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR At 07:23 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote: And I hate cow catchers I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle ends and moose antlers on the smokebox. Regards, Harry
Re: Pine Creek RR
Hmmm, can you picture a shay without foot boards? Yuk! I have a picture of the QTL #6 with a pilot and it really looks odd, in part because the engine is so fat compared to the rails. The pilot takes on a Hitler mustache kind of look. At some point the 6 lost it, but not sure when or why. Any one have some full sized moose antlers for sale? And I hate cow catchers with a vengeance. Although the 6 had one at one time, it lost it at some point for a hand some foot board. A Cow Catcher is not the thing.but a correct Pilot would not be out of line at all! Not a cheapo deal made from angle iron, like the 50's Daisy Picker lines used. But a correct from Baldwin drawings in Oak would be very attractive. Not to mention that if the FRA were to ever get jurisdiction, your foot boards would be goe in a blink! (OSHA probably would faint if they saw foot boards! They have been gone from Main line RR's for 30 years now)
Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
At 08:33 AM 3/20/03 -0500, you wrote: But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!! Steve But that didn't make it attractive. Petticoat Junction set the public's image of locomotive aesthetics back 100 years.(?) Now on the other hand, paint a locomotive lilac purple, line and stripe and polish it from head to foot, hang the name of a town in brass and garlands of poseys as well as a gilt-edged portrait of 'er Majesty on it, now THERE'S aesthetics for you! :-) Regards, Harry
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
And add Acid Green pin Striping! Oh my imagination's eyes hurt! :-) Terry Griner Columbus Ohio [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/20/03 09:43AM At 08:33 AM 3/20/03 -0500, you wrote: But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!! Steve But that didn't make it attractive. Petticoat Junction set the public's image of locomotive aesthetics back 100 years.(?) Now on the other hand, paint a locomotive lilac purple, line and stripe and polish it from head to foot, hang the name of a town in brass and garlands of poseys as well as a gilt-edged portrait of 'er Majesty on it, now THERE'S aesthetics for you! :-) Regards, Harry
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
Harry, You wrote: But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!! Steve But that didn't make it attractive. Petticoat Junction set the public's image of locomotive aesthetics back 100 years.(?) Now on the other hand, paint a locomotive lilac purple, line and stripe and polish it from head to foot, hang the name of a town in brass and garlands of poseys as well as a gilt-edged portrait of 'er Majesty on it, now THERE'S aesthetics for you! :-) Didn't someone once say Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? But the Brits weren't alone in extensive - one might say garish - ornament. The decorative aspects of mid-19th century American locomotives yield numerous examples as well! - - Steve
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
What you find is that nearly everything can be prototypical. I remember back years ago when I used to get Model RR magazine that they had a feature each month of things that in theory were not prototypical but they would show a picture of a real RR using that item. The one that sticks with me is the straight bridge with curved track on it. I think it was in Chicago some place. Engines under go change. Our shay looks like much different that it did the day it rolled out of Lima. The wood cab was replaced and it got a diamond stack, both required by law in the forests that it ran in. Our Irish engine was painted all sorts of colors, driven in part by politics of the North/South border region. She has also had three boilers, the last one installed in the late 1920s.Our #26 is on its second boiler also, replaced in 1925. The rear headlight on the 26 is mounted on top of the cab roof today, but it belongs under the roof according to pictures from Virginia. I broke the lens with a shovel handle and we moved it back up on top of the roof. BTW, we do have a radio controlled 55 ton GE as used by US Steel. So yes, radio control of your live steamers is prototypical also. No kidding. The locomotive is marked with front and rear markings so the operator knew which way he should go when on the ground operating it while in a fire suit in the mill. Any thing is prototypical! Enjoy! J.R. - Original Message - From: steve boylan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR Harry wrote: And I hate cow catchers I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle ends and moose antlers on the smokebox. But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!! What more excuse do you need? :-) - - Steve
Re: Pine Creek RR/C-25
I have looked at this data (the online C-25 drawings which are fantastic) in the past as well as the various models on the market and the counter balances on our Quincy 6 just look larger. Much larger. As the wheels rotate the rods nearly touch the ground, say at a crossing. The counter weights as they come around almost do the same thing. I have read some place that this style locomotive was not used in snow and icy weather as it would derail itself as the weights came around. I believe it. I know similar engines are in Colorado, but I wonder what kind of ground clearance they have? Granted we will put new tires on the engine, but that will only give us maybe an inch increase in rod height. On our web site one of the pictures shows us doing tires for our Porter. (www.njmt.org) - Original Message - From: mart.towers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Pine Creek RR/C-25 - Original Message - From: Vance Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pine Creek RR but what is the outside frame job? Art, that's the Quincy Torch Lake No. 6, one of the sisters to the Crystal River 103/DRGW 375 (the C-25 class). regards, -vance- Too, too modest to mention your own work in cyberdocumenting the C-25 for 1/20 scalers! Art
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
And I hate cow catchers I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle ends and moose antlers on the smokebox. And in fact, I doubt that one ever caught a COW! Now if they wanted to call them Cow deflectors, or a Cow Plow! that might be a bit more accurate! Keith Taylor
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
Engines under go change. Our shay looks like much different that it did the day it rolled out of Lima. The wood cab was replaced and it got a diamond stack, both required by law in the forests that it ran in. J.R. The Shay got it's new cab because the old wooden one burned! The Ely Thomas No. 5, which worked along side the No. 6 at Jetsville, W. Va, always had a wooden cab, and does today as well. But yes, the spark arresting stack was a West Virgina Law, and that's why Cass has the identical stack on it's coal burning locomotives today. BTW, we do have a radio controlled 55 ton GE as used by US Steel. So yes, radio control of your live steamers is prototypical also. No kidding. The locomotive is marked with front and rear markings so the operator knew which way he should go when on the ground operating it while in a fire suit in the mill. The Front and Rear markings are not just for radio Control use, but are an ICC and later FRA mandated marking as some locomotives, like GE 44 tonners, have identical looking fronts and rears, and some RR's like the NW ran their diesel locomotives long hood leading. All FRA inspectable locomotives have the front marked so that a brakeman will know which direction is which for giving hand signals. Most are merely marked with a F on one end beam, but that is the officially designated front of the locomotive. Without it, how would you tell which end of a GG-1 is the front? Keith
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
H, a radio controlled GG-1? You could have ridden in the bar car and run it from there! - Original Message - From: Keith Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR Engines under go change. Our shay looks like much different that it did the day it rolled out of Lima. The wood cab was replaced and it got a diamond stack, both required by law in the forests that it ran in. J.R. The Shay got it's new cab because the old wooden one burned! The Ely Thomas No. 5, which worked along side the No. 6 at Jetsville, W. Va, always had a wooden cab, and does today as well. But yes, the spark arresting stack was a West Virgina Law, and that's why Cass has the identical stack on it's coal burning locomotives today. BTW, we do have a radio controlled 55 ton GE as used by US Steel. So yes, radio control of your live steamers is prototypical also. No kidding. The locomotive is marked with front and rear markings so the operator knew which way he should go when on the ground operating it while in a fire suit in the mill. The Front and Rear markings are not just for radio Control use, but are an ICC and later FRA mandated marking as some locomotives, like GE 44 tonners, have identical looking fronts and rears, and some RR's like the NW ran their diesel locomotives long hood leading. All FRA inspectable locomotives have the front marked so that a brakeman will know which direction is which for giving hand signals. Most are merely marked with a F on one end beam, but that is the officially designated front of the locomotive. Without it, how would you tell which end of a GG-1 is the front? Keith
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
Any thing is prototypical! Enjoy! J.R. Possibly so, tho I remain to be convinced of the absolute truth of this statement. It is, however, frequently untypical. Sam E
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
JR May wrote: What you find is that nearly everything can be prototypical. I remember back years ago when I used to get Model RR magazine that they had a feature each month of things that in theory were not prototypical but they would show a picture of a real RR using that item. The one that sticks with me is the straight bridge with curved track on it. I think that this would be over a relatively short distance on a single span to save the cost? of having a vertical (bent?) to support the overhang, or where one such could not be built. The one that springs to mind is on the 2' Volos to Milae(sp?) line in Greece, part of which has reopened. Sam E
Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
OK what about a stuffed bear head? :-) Sam JR May wrote: Hold the phone there! I kind of like antlers! - Original Message - From: Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR At 07:23 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote: And I hate cow catchers I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle ends and moose antlers on the smokebox. Regards, Harry
Re: Pine Creek RR
- Original Message - From: JR May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 3:49 PM Subject: Pine Creek RR every locomotive we own.However, the person who put up the pictures did not include captions, so if you have any questions, please let me know. Great site - but what is the outside frame job? 2-6-0 or 2-8-0, locos pic 14. Cuban refugee? Art Walker
Re: Pine Creek RR
but what is the outside frame job? Art, that's the Quincy Torch Lake No. 6, one of the sisters to the Crystal River 103/DRGW 375 (the C-25 class). regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Pine Creek RR
As others have pointed out, that is the Quincy Mining Company #6, a 70 ton, 1912 outside frame 2-8-0 built by Baldwin and similar to the Bachman model. I believe the Bachman model is actually a 30 gauge locomotive and not nearly as beefy as the Big 6 as we call it here. The Big 6 will be the next engine to go in for a full rebuild by our shop crew to include a boiler overhaul to comply with the new NBIC Appendix C requirements. It will also get new tires and a whole new tender. It is a beast which will no doubt scare many little kids as it rumbles through our station area. And like the big gauge 1 live steamers, clearances are tight through our station area and shop doors due to the width of the cylinders and cab. Look for it to run in the 2007 time frame. Feel free to come out and help too! Again, if in Jersey, look me up and I'll give you a tour. - Original Message - From: mart.towers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pine Creek RR - Original Message - From: JR May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 3:49 PM Subject: Pine Creek RR every locomotive we own.However, the person who put up the pictures did not include captions, so if you have any questions, please let me know. Great site - but what is the outside frame job? 2-6-0 or 2-8-0, locos pic 14. Cuban refugee? Art Walker
Re: Pine Creek RR
Please please please do a proper job on loco restoration, and the tender replica. with no unneccessary embellishments, and with rivets (if only cosmetic) where they should be. Welded construction looks awful. After criticism a preservation soc is redoing replicationof water tankks WITH cosmetic rivets as the plain welded tanks were too obviosly modern replacements. I believe the QTL locos extant at closure still all survive. No 6 being a favourite of mine. Sam E JR May wrote: For those of you with an interest in 3' prototype equipment, the web site for the new Jersey Museum of Transportation/Pine Creek RR has been updated with a bunch of pictures, to include at least one picture for just about every locomotive we own.However, the person who put up the pictures did not include captions, so if you have any questions, please let me know. You'll see pictures of our Ely-Thomas shay, the Irish Lady Edith (1887), Quincy and Torch Lake #6, our Porter mogul (1914) , Buda motor car, and a bunch of diesels. Try www.njmt.org and let me know if you have any questions. As far as polls go, Pine Creek engineers have gotten in to noisy arguments over which of our steamers is the best, the best manufacturer, and the best to run. J.R. May
Re: Pine Creek RR/C-25
- Original Message - From: Vance Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pine Creek RR but what is the outside frame job? Art, that's the Quincy Torch Lake No. 6, one of the sisters to the Crystal River 103/DRGW 375 (the C-25 class). regards, -vance- Too, too modest to mention your own work in cyberdocumenting the C-25 for 1/20 scalers! Art
Re: Pine Creek RR
Regarding QTL No. 6 We will most likely not use a wooden tender frame as that was a special order at the time and the timbers would be terrible to get today. J.R. Talk to the boys up here in Maine at the WWF they have managed to get replacement wooden timbers to replace the rotted ones from the WWF Boxcar (at approximetly 30 ft in length!) And the reproduction Caboose built from Portland Co, blueprints has an all wooden framed running gear too! And I hate cow catchers with a vengeance. Although the 6 had one at one time, it lost it at some point for a hand some foot board. A Cow Catcher is not the thing.but a correct Pilot would not be out of line at all! Not a cheapo deal made from angle iron, like the 50's Daisy Picker lines used. But a correct from Baldwin drawings in Oak would be very attractive. Not to mention that if the FRA were to ever get jurisdiction, your foot boards would be goe in a blink! (OSHA probably would faint if they saw foot boards! They have been gone from Main line RR's for 30 years now) Keith
Odious practices was Pine Creek RR
At 07:23 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote: And I hate cow catchers I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle ends and moose antlers on the smokebox. Regards, Harry
